subrosian Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 DO NOT CONSOLIDATE INTO THE BACKSTAB THREAD. THIS IS A PURELY PVE DISCUSSION. What are you planning to do to make OP DPS viable? We are the only melee dps without a PVE gap closer. Two of our big damage abilities are not functional in raids. The changes to Backstab will lower our DPS by several thousand over the course of a boss encounter. Lethality has no way to generate TA without getting into melee, and needs to waste TA to maintain stims despite Cull being the only means of generating competive DPS. What is being done to fix this in 1.2? How do you plan to make OPs competitive (getting carried to a clear is not the same thing as being competitive... so no your imaginary all OPs internal team that does your testing means jack)? IN PVE OPS ARE UNDERPOWERED. When are you planning to address raiding Operatives and stop punishing us because of PVP balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 We're a positional dps class that has a very, very hard time getting into position in Operations due to the mechanics of various fights. We do not have the damage currently to back up the downtime we receive due to trying to find the sweet spot to attack. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 DO NOT CONSOLIDATE INTO THE BACKSTAB THREAD. THIS IS A PURELY PVE DISCUSSION. What are you planning to do to make OP DPS viable? We are the only melee dps without a PVE gap closer. Two of our big damage abilities are not functional in raids. The changes to Backstab will lower our DPS by several thousand over the course of a boss encounter. Lethality has no way to generate TA without getting into melee, and needs to waste TA to maintain stims despite Cull being the only means of generating competive DPS. What is being done to fix this in 1.2? How do you plan to make OPs competitive (getting carried to a clear is not the same thing as being competitive... so no your imaginary all OPs internal team that does your testing means jack)? IN PVE OPS ARE UNDERPOWERED. When are you planning to address raiding Operatives and stop punishing us because of PVP balance? When they decide to separate the stats between pvp and pve and actually treat them like two separate games... Of course that would make too much sense so it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 our abilities are being balanced around a 6 global opener in PVP. I demand a dev answer on how they plan to address PVE, where we don't lose a few hundred dps on a burst, but instead several thousand DPS over the course of the fight. Why do we not have a PVE-only move to give us a competitive rotation? Stab-time, 30 energy, 3K damage, does not affect players. It's not that hard. Fix it. It had been FOUR MONTHS and we eat constant PVP nerfs. Where is our PVE fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogar Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) As of 1.2, concealment is the PvP spec and lethality the PvE spec (just like vengeance is the PvE spec and rage the PvP spec for juggs). Lethality is not as bad as people think for PvE (backstab is part of your rotation but you don't need it, it's more like an energy dumper) and has very few down time too. Now, you might not like it (and I clearly don't) but that's their design decision. I'd rather have all specs viable for both PvE and PvP and not have to respec if I want to go PvP/PvE. I really hope we will get those dual specs on 1.2. Edit : By the way, lethality's competitive DPS comes from your dart (which gets a boost from a bug fix), your weakening blast and then eventually your cull and corrosive grenades. Cull DPE and even DPS are nothing to write about (but at least we have that spare energy to spam it now). Delaying a cull by a few seconds is not that important. Edited March 19, 2012 by Sogar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVSiN Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 +1 on all of this.. I went to healing on my Op as noone wanted my Op as a DPS when they could have my Merc or my Mar instead.. After the previous nerf the chars DPS in PVE went into the crapper.. and nothing has brought us out of the crapper.. what happened to the early promises of "we will never nerf a class based on PVP results for PVE" You guys said before the game launched that PVP was going to be the secondary focus.. well now here we are gutting all the classes based on PVP ************ and moaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkar Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I would PvE more but it is impossible to find anyone willing to take more than one melee, and taking the most squishy, and inconsistent PvE class is not high on anyones priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 As of 1.2, concealment is the PvP spec and lethality the PvE spec (just like vengeance is the PvE spec and rage the PvP spec for juggs). It's not acceptable to take the only true melee tree of Operatives, the one many people *took the class for in the first place* and say "oh yeah, not intended for PVP, k thnx bye". Even if it were, it ignores that it would be *easy to make Concealment function in PVE simply be creating PVE-only effects for our talents". SHIV - does X damage, applies a stacking armor debuff to non-players. SOME TALENT - reduces the CD on Shiv by 1s, Shiv does +2% damage to non-players. It's clearly possible, as some abilities already have one function in PVE and another in PVP, such as taunts. I would like a developer to actually respond to this idea as it would provide a fix for Operatives in PVE content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 oh hey cool yet another OP thread moved off the PTR. Thanks for listening Bioware! Great job on listening to your customers! FRAAAAAAAAAAAAK It took me 4 months of complaining to get you to listen to Medics being broken, it took you until 1.1.5 to grasp that Medical Therapy should actually function, why I expect PVE OPs to be listened to I will never understand. HURK HURK. PVE OPS? NO ONE PLAYS THOSE, AND WE'LL IGNORE THE FEW WHO DO UNTIL THEY GO AWAY. -Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) It's not acceptable to take the only true melee tree of Operatives, the one many people *took the class for in the first place* and say "oh yeah, not intended for PVP, k thnx bye". Even if it were, it ignores that it would be *easy to make Concealment function in PVE simply be creating PVE-only effects for our talents". SHIV - does X damage, applies a stacking armor debuff to non-players. SOME TALENT - reduces the CD on Shiv by 1s, Shiv does +2% damage to non-players. It's clearly possible, as some abilities already have one function in PVE and another in PVP, such as taunts. I would like a developer to actually respond to this idea as it would provide a fix for Operatives in PVE content. The question is not wether they can make concealment work for PvE but rather if they want to. After having read the patchnotes for all classes (and especially rage juggs) I'm pretty sure they don't want to. For your info, rage juggs sustain DPS was inferior to vengeance by a small margin (but still undoubtly inferior). They gave it ~18% sustain damage nerf and some utility/life quality buff for PvP. You can't be more clear about your intentions than that. Then, you look at other ACs ... Edited March 22, 2012 by Sogar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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