operatives and 1.2 (lolpatch)

[VertisReaper]

looks like ops in denial, enjoy your nerf suckaaas <3 Edited March 19, 2012 by VertisReaper

[Chasidim]

It is not a lie. You can do it to ANYBODY that is not guarded if you have all of your cooldowns.

 

It doesn't matter what class they are, what spec they are, how good they are, if they happen to not have their CC breaker up.

 

Take the best geared players on the server and these are the numbers in optimal gear/mods with operatives.

 

HS-about 4k and acid blade is ticking, shiv, 2.4, acid, vanish/hs another 4k which most likely will proc the extra HS that is in this game (bug) for a total of 15k, throw in a backstab and they are dead .

 

 

my bad 4 shots not 3.\

 

 

If the extra hidden doesnt proc then yeah, you will probably not 3 shot them, but it happens enough. And even if it doesn't proc, what you have to add in 2-3 more attacks. Game over lights out.

 

you still dont kill any tank with gear. even if your last backstab crits. you are around 18k damage. that won't even kill me.

and that happens, if your enemy is afk, not knowing what to do or terrbile.

 

how about that: you open, he uses his cc-breaker + kick. you did: acid blade + hidden strike, plus shiv and now you are 20 feet away, possibly rooted and he stands there with 50% hp and has more options than you have.

 

and stop telling us that there is a double hs proc. it can happen, it not always does!

[Cwild]

you still dont kill any tank with gear. even if your last backstab crits. you are around 18k damage. that won't even kill me.

and that happens, if your enemy is afk, not knowing what to do or terrbile.

 

how about that: you open, he uses his cc-breaker + kick. you did: acid blade + hidden strike, plus shiv and now you are 20 feet away, possibly rooted and he stands there with 50% hp and has more options than you have.

 

and stop telling us that there is a double hs proc. it can happen, it not always does!

 

acid blade ticks puts it over 22k damage.

 

 

you will die

 

 

And yeah, this was never stated that it is done all the time, the fact of the matter is "IT CAN" be done and you are all telling me that it can't when I literally do it every single day.

[Chasidim]

acid blade ticks puts it over 22k damage.

 

 

you will die

And yeah, this was never stated that it is done all the time, the fact of the matter is "IT CAN" be done and you are all telling me that it can't when I literally do it every single day.

 

 

so let me get that straight. you get a free kill every 2 minutes, when the following occours: you have ALL your cds ready (stims, vanish, relic), the enemy has a cd on his cc-breaker or is too dumb to use it AND you get a double hs-proc, which is a bug that occoured next to never to a big bunch of operatives.

 

and with that you want to agree to the guy who says that operatives threeshot ppl all the time?

come on, you can do better!

Edited March 19, 2012 by Chasidim

[Cwild]

so let me get that straight. you get a free kill every 2 minutes, when the following occours: you have ALL your cds ready (stims, vanish, relic), the enemy has a cd on his cc-breaker or is too dumb to use it AND you get a double hs-proc, which is a bug that occoured next to never to a big bunch of operatives.

 

and with that you want to agree to the guy who says that operatives threeshot ppl all the time?

come on, you can do better!

 

Lol I'm just stating that it can be done, as I do it.

 

I'm about to get f'd in the A though because of my rakata pieces, with them changing expertise I think I actually have to get some BM gear. BALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLS

[toshman]

i have pvped with 2 ops last night in my grp.

 

1 is full champ with few bm

2 is full bm wth rakata for bonus

 

the 2nd ops is amazing. he drops people so quick its crazy. i have seen him kill light armor in 1 stun lock.

 

i had the pleasure to fight him. its fun. to try to get out of it. nobody likes to be cc from 100-0 because they think they can do something. but its ok for them if they get their face melted by a marauder as long as they can move.

 

this is how ops fight, that is their mechanic. not sure why bio keeps nerfing things 3 months into game release.

 

1.2 will end this game....new MMO's comming out, diablo 3 and this game is going back to wow type of pvp. the only thing that might save it is the influx of a lot of players that will want to pvp as they are making this system more like FPS.

 

FYI i have a lvl 50 assassin & lvl 50 merc. i hate nerfs period unless something is so op that there is no counter.

[Cwild]

so let me get that straight. you get a free kill every 2 minutes, when the following occours: you have ALL your cds ready (stims, vanish, relic), the enemy has a cd on his cc-breaker or is too dumb to use it AND you get a double hs-proc, which is a bug that occoured next to never to a big bunch of operatives.

 

and with that you want to agree to the guy who says that operatives threeshot ppl all the time?

come on, you can do better!

 

And to be honest, even if you don't vanish reopen.

 

My basic start up has these numbers (no guard) (crits, and lets be honest you crit all the frickin time)

 

acid/HS-4.2 (roughly average, no lower then 3.8-no higher then 5.4)

I hit acid again right after this

Shiv-2.4 (roughly)

defib

backstab-3.6(roughly)

lacerate -2.8 (roughly)

lacerate-2.8 (roughly)

acid backstab 3.6)

 

add that up.

 

It's not hard to kill people

 

And dont even tell me you just get kited, it's horse ****. If you get kited, they aren't killing you either, and 9 times out of 10, you catch up to them, or they don't even get away.\

 

EDIT: and the argument will be well those are all crits, well take away half of those and make them normal attacks, the damage is still good)

Edited March 19, 2012 by Cwild

[Chasidim]

Lol I'm just stating that it can be done, as I do it.

 

I'm about to get f'd in the A though because of my rakata pieces, with them changing expertise I think I actually have to get some BM gear. BALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLS

 

i never said that it's impossible to kill enemys very quickly. i never said that i havent threeshot people, when they are dumb or undergeared. but that is not the point of this thread! people stated that its happening all the time, with no restriction of cooldowns or enemy skill. that is the point.

 

i love playing my op, i can perform well and have a nice time in warzones, i can get quick kills, but that doesn't mean that the operative is a overpowered class that owns every enemy, no matter how skilled or geared in a matter of seconds!

[Chasidim]

And to be honest, even if you don't vanish reopen.

 

My basic start up has these numbers (no guard) (crits, and lets be honest you crit all the frickin time)

 

acid/HS-4.2 (roughly average, no lower then 3.8-no higher then 5.4)

I hit acid again right after this

Shiv-2.4 (roughly)

defib

backstab-3.6(roughly)

lacerate -2.8 (roughly)

lacerate-2.8 (roughly)

acid backstab 3.6)

 

add that up.

 

It's not hard to kill people

 

And dont even tell me you just get kited, it's horse ****. If you get kited, they aren't killing you either, and 9 times out of 10, you catch up to them, or they don't even get away.\

 

EDIT: and the argument will be well those are all crits, well take away half of those and make them normal attacks, the damage is still good)

 

add to that, that warzones are no 1on1 arenas, that people are shielded, guarded, have health packs or are healers, have a pockethealer or a mate that just shows up at the right time. add that they can use their cc-break and stun you, mezz you, root you, kick you, sprint away to friendlies.

 

the above example of yours does happen, no question and you can kill lonely targets with no support and cooldowns that quick, but it does not happen ALL THE TIME.

mercs can kill you that fast, marauders can kill you that fast, sins can kill you that fast. it's not operative-exlusive.

[Ozzone]

HS-about 4k and acid blade is ticking, shiv, 2.4, acid, vanish/hs another 4k which most likely will proc the extra HS that is in this game (bug) for a total of 15k, throw in a backstab and they are dead .

 

 

my bad 4 shots not 3.\

 

I go back to what I said, not anybody. An experienced PvPer knows how to counter and a decently PvP geared player will not get hit with that much damage.

 

First of all, HS is only a 1.5 sec knockdown. Shiv does not have a CC and any player that isn't totally incompetent, will CC back as soon as the knockdown ends. This puts the operative on defense now because their rotation is screwed.

 

Next, after a HS you can only use Cloaking Screen once to be able to do a 2nd HS. Not 3 times. If there is a bug allowing a 2nd HS to hit, then the bug needs to be fixed.

 

Next, you are assuming full crits on all attacks. You are also assuming full damage and that won't happen with someone that is fully geared, especially if they have at least 600+ expertise.

 

Lastly, any good op will not rotate HS then shiv then attempt another HS. Due to the animation time, they open the door wide open to get CC'd. Once they get CC'd, the outcome of the fight is no longer a given. A smart player will know that an operative is only effective in melee range and will simply move out of range. If they are not stupid and see the operative vanish again, they should know or be expecting another stealth attack from behind and do what they can to prevent it.

 

I will stand firm on what I said, not anybody. Now if you can prove me wrong, by all means let's see some video and actually see operatives own experienced players.

[Cwild]

add to that, that warzones are no 1on1 arenas, that people are shielded, guarded, have health packs or are healers, have a pockethealer or a mate that just shows up at the right time. add that they can use their cc-break and stun you, mezz you, root you, kick you, sprint away to friendlies.

 

the above example of yours does happen, no question and you can kill lonely targets with no support and cooldowns that quick, but it does not happen ALL THE TIME.

mercs can kill you that fast, marauders can kill you that fast, sins can kill you that fast. it's not operative-exlusive.

 

I hear what you are saying, beleive me. I'm sad about the nerfs as well. But the fact of the matter the last thing people see before they die is the operative giggling at him while they are unable to move (if they are a bad player) which makes up about 80% of this population. So what happens, we get nerfed.

 

It's like that in every MMO.

 

Good operatives will just keep getting nerfed and be fine.

 

12s on backstab is what we should be talking about though (complete bogusness)

Same with the 7.5 on hidden strike. I understand people qq about the double HS opener but what about the times where I go into a 1v2 situation and I use my vanish to switch targets to interrupt a heal to save my actual interrupt for the next heal. Or when I kill someone who was at 50% hp and his friend is at 100% so I kill him, use infiltrate since stealth is on cooldown and open on him. OH WAIT I CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE because of the 7.5

 

It really just took a huge skill away from good operatives, and is absolute ****.

[MrHotter]

When I wanted to sneak around and pick out easy targets I played my DPS operative. If I wanted to win I'd play any other class.

 

Now my operative is a healer so I can spend the entire match running from 4 melee guys while doing 90% of my heals to myself.

[Ozzone]

Good operatives will just keep getting nerfed and be fine.

 

No, good operatives will get tired of the nerfs and re-roll or quit. Watch and see.

[Cwild]

I go back to what I said, not anybody. An experienced PvPer knows how to counter and a decently PvP geared player will not get hit with that much damage.

 

First of all, HS is only a 1.5 sec knockdown. Shiv does not have a CC and any player that isn't totally incompetent, will CC back as soon as the knockdown ends. This puts the operative on defense now because their rotation is screwed.

 

Next, after a HS you can only use Cloaking Screen once to be able to do a 2nd HS. Not 3 times. If there is a bug allowing a 2nd HS to hit, then the bug needs to be fixed.

 

Next, you are assuming full crits on all attacks. You are also assuming full damage and that won't happen with someone that is fully geared, especially if they have at least 600+ expertise.

 

Lastly, any good op will not rotate HS then shiv then attempt another HS. Due to the animation time, they open the door wide open to get CC'd. Once they get CC'd, the outcome of the fight is no longer a given. A smart player will know that an operative is only effective in melee range and will simply move out of range. If they are not stupid and see the operative vanish again, they should know or be expecting another stealth attack from behind and do what they can to prevent it.

 

I will stand firm on what I said, not anybody. Now if you can prove me wrong, by all means let's see some video and actually see operatives own experienced players.

 

I'll try for put a clip together of me dueling my guild for you to see the numbers. Everyone in "fat camp" on darth malak are the best our server has to offer. They all have BM gear and I havn't lost in my premade in over a month. I'll see after work if I can get them together to show you some of the outcomes.

 

This is a 1v1 perspective though, and most people will just say ITS A TEAM GAME BRAH, which I agree, it is, but this doesn't take away the fact that being able to 1v1 in a team game in a WZ is just as valuble in some situations as anything else.

[Chasidim]

I hear what you are saying, beleive me. I'm sad about the nerfs as well. But the fact of the matter the last thing people see before they die is the operative giggling at him while they are unable to move (if they are a bad player) which makes up about 80% of this population. So what happens, we get nerfed.

 

It's like that in every MMO.

 

Good operatives will just keep getting nerfed and be fine.

 

12s on backstab is what we should be talking about though (complete bogusness)

Same with the 7.5 on hidden strike. I understand people qq about the double HS opener but what about the times where I go into a 1v2 situation and I use my vanish to switch targets to interrupt a heal to save my actual interrupt for the next heal. Or when I kill someone who was at 50% hp and his friend is at 100% so I kill him, use infiltrate since stealth is on cooldown and open on him. OH WAIT I CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE because of the 7.5

 

It really just took a huge skill away from good operatives, and is absolute ****.

 

i agree with that. the cooldown on hidden strike is just stupid. if they wanted to prevent us from using it to double hs, the could have made hs unuseable in vanish.

the cooldown on backstab is stupid beyond words. we already have no mainattack without a cooldown so i have no idea how that change helps the op performe better. it is before all a huge nerf to our sustained damage due to less acid blades.

[Rhaiz]

sadly bioware does'nt care. the devs say the class is working as intended. they say they test the class and it perfomes well in any situation.

 

Sounds like it works fine for people that have the skill to play the class correctly.

 

If you spent more time getting better and less time whining on the forums, you might figure it out.

[Ozzone]

I'll try for put a clip together of me dueling my guild for you to see the numbers. Everyone in "fat camp" on darth malak are the best our server has to offer. They all have BM gear and I havn't lost in my premade in over a month. I'll see after work if I can get them together to show you some of the outcomes.

 

This is a 1v1 perspective though, and most people will just say ITS A TEAM GAME BRAH, which I agree, it is, but this doesn't take away the fact that being able to 1v1 in a team game in a WZ is just as valuble in some situations as anything else.

 

Sorry, but frapsing staged duels means nothing. Show us actual in game use in WZs against good players and don't edit out the times you die.

[Cwild]

No, good operatives will get tired of the nerfs and re-roll or quit. Watch and see.

 

Then let them quit. If you have to re-roll to play a different class because you can't adapt then it's on you. Most people who play their operatives will stay with them if it is infact fun to them. I'm not saying alot won't reroll, its the cycle of MMOs, however, if you enjoy the class getting nerfed comes along with it.

 

I'm the type of player that doesn't play alts, I try to min/max and just perfect one class.

I was like this in wow, I played lock from vanilla for about 6 years until I just got sick of WoW.

Any character that I made in those 6 years got to like 45. I stuck with it when it was garbage, to grossly op, back to garbage, back to grossly op. I excelled at all phases even when we were garbage with useless specs in arena such as demonology because I played it for soooo long and all the people who rerolled constantly to learn new classes were not as good.

 

I'm not the greatest player to ever walk the earth, that i'm sure, but I don't suck.

 

Good players will continue to play their operatives, if it is fun to them, if they aren't having fun anymore then by all means try something else. I won't be one of them.

[Cwild]

Sorry, but frapsing staged duels means nothing. Show us actual in game use in WZs against good players and don't edit out the times you die.

 

Okay, ill fraps some wz's tonight or tomorrow without any edits or music. I'll solo queue also so you don't see my guild "carrying the useless op"

 

I wish I fraps 3 nights ago, I hit 617k damage in voidstar, was retardedly nuts.

 

Thing with that is, it might take a while to get a really good team on the opposition that will suit your need. I can't control if their are scrubs in the match. I'll try to make a good unedited one for ya though.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Cwild

[Chasidim]

Sounds like it works fine for people that have the skill to play the class correctly.

 

If you spent more time getting better and less time whining on the forums, you might figure it out.

 

yeah, me and the thousands of operatives should get better, because a bunch of devs say so. really?

[Cwild]

Sounds like it works fine for people that have the skill to play the class correctly.

 

If you spent more time getting better and less time whining on the forums, you might figure it out.

 

It's not that man. Many of them have very valid posts. Some do better then others yes, because some are naturally better at video games then others, but it doesn't mean that their points arent valid. The operative does need some form of utility, whether it be a gap closer ( i dont want that) or a immunity to knockbacks for a set duration (would love that) or just a better energy management tool (might change in 1.2), whatever it is, they still need one. If I was on an assassin I'm sure I would feel like god, cause I feel pretty close to that on my operative. The players who are complaining on the forums, some actually make valid points.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[Wassawp]

PVP 101.

 

If you beat someone without leaving him a chance to win, you're either a cheater/exploiter or playing an OP class.

 

It's a Learn 2 Lose problem.

[THAAC]

yeah here here

 

wait what you got jumped by an op with 70% health and you managed to get away

 

few points here war hero means nothing seen a valor rank 71 in almost complete champ gear just yesteday ( also an op btw and he does nuts damage ) valor rank = time spent nothing more

 

also notice in your sig both your toons are stealth classes

 

its not like you beat him you just got away

 

 

since the patch to op/scoundrels the only thing that happened was the bad players getting a free ride started to lose and cry on the forums the good players contiuned to do really well

 

anyone that thinks a rogue type class in any mmo should have a 100% win chance should not be playing any multiplayer game ever its just not for you

 

 

Holy hell! Toya from LGNOD in SWG...Infinity...my old nemesis! Still a filty reb I see How are you these days mate? Hope the health is a bit better.

[Aggony]

Yeah a lot of thought is required in picking a target when you can burst them from 100-0 in seconds with your unbelievable "skill". BIG LOL!

 

Everyone I run with were complaining about how OP they were, basically killing anything in a few shots with no chance of reprisal. I guess if I could 3 shot almost anyone, and now it takes 5 to 6 shots, I would complain too. :-/

[LenrocNewDawn]

or a immunity to knockbacks for a set duration (would love that).

 

NO. You'd use that love behind my slinger while pumping me full of scatergun ammo. NO THANK YOU!