1.2 Hard Mode loot. Why raid when you can just run dailies?

[IndoJabijin]

the "best" gear for you depends on what you are doing. for instance BM gear is the "best" for pvp, rakata is the "best" for operations. they should make a tier of gear with presence on it (a useless stat of ops and pvp) for questing and soloing content with your companion. that way all players can get the "best" gear in the game for what they do and everyone is happy. Operations should be the only way to get operation gear pvp should be the only way to get pvp gear and questing should be the only way to get quest gear end of story

Unfortunately there are only 2 types of gear: PvE or PvP. I see no reason why getting the best PvE gear should be limited to raids. If the other option requires as much dedication and time I don't see an issue.

[Anthiel]

World of Warcraft for 7 years. Yes, people are motivated by gear but that doesn't mean it's right.

 

it also dosent make it wrong. i played the heck outta wow too but if there was no raid gear all you did it for was the challange i dont think i would have played wow for as many years i dont think it would have made it 7 years with no loot raids.

[IndoJabijin]

it also dosent make it wrong. i played the heck outta wow too but if there was no raid gear all you did it for was the challange i dont think i would have played wow for as many years i dont think it would have made it 7 years with no loot raids.

Well, that's also an issue with the P2P model. You need something to strive for and the carrot on the stick model is what keeps people playing.

 

Hench why a game like GW2 will have no end game raiding or "best" gear. It doesn't have a sub. So you can pick it up, play for all you want, shelve it and wait for the next content update or expansion to continue playing.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Unfortunately there are only 2 types of gear: PvE or PvP. I see no reason why getting the best PvE gear should be limited to raids. If the other option requires as much dedication and time I don't see an issue.

 

Again no one would care if they were getting Presence gear. The problem is these people Can not accept that. they feel they are entitled to Raid gear because they pay $15 a month even though they do not raid. That is just selfish and ignorance of them. If they want raid gear they should have to raid for it.

[Gavin_Darkl]

Well, that's also an issue with the P2P model. You need something to strive for and the carrot on the stick model is what keeps people playing.

.

 

This is what Solo players do not understand. They do not understand MMOS they only understand they want everything for the $15 a month they spent. Not that they might as well just buy a single player game and get the entire game in 1 DVD.

[Gavin_Darkl]

it also dosent make it wrong. i played the heck outta wow too but if there was no raid gear all you did it for was the challange i dont think i would have played wow for as many years i dont think it would have made it 7 years with no loot raids.

 

The same goes for a lot of raids I know and have played with. If there was not difference between raid gear and solo gear they would not raid. Most of them have a problem with not needing to raid to get epics. Now we all know that, that game does not have a companion or a stat to make the companion better. The problem is these people that want raid gear for not raiding will not accept gear that makes their companion better and makes them solo better. No they want raid gear for not raiding.

[krinaman]

So what's this stat that this gear has that makes it "raid" gear again?

[Gavin_Darkl]

So what's this stat that this gear has that makes it "raid" gear again?

 

Power – adds melee, force and tech damage

Force/Tech Power – Found on weapons, works like Power but does not provide melee/ranged damage

Accuracy – Gives +hit and gives armor/spell pen over 100%

Crit – gives melee, force and tech crit

Surge – increased critical damage

Armor – reduces physical and kinetic damage (all Tech and Force powers unless listed otherwise are Kinetic)

Defense – increases Parry/Deflect (deflect is just ranged parry)

Shield – increases chance to be shielded on attack

Absorption – increases the % of damage shaved off shielded attacks

Alacrity – Cast/channel Haste

 

None of which you need if you are soloing.

 

Presence – boots companion health, damage and healing

 

is the only one you will need for Soloing. It makes your companion better. Your character does not need the stat boost if you are not raiding.

[krinaman]

Power – adds melee, force and tech damage

Force/Tech Power – Found on weapons, works like Power but does not provide melee/ranged damage

Accuracy – Gives +hit and gives armor/spell pen over 100%

Crit – gives melee, force and tech crit

Surge – increased critical damage

Armor – reduces physical and kinetic damage (all Tech and Force powers unless listed otherwise are Kinetic)

Defense – increases Parry/Deflect (deflect is just ranged parry)

Shield – increases chance to be shielded on attack

Absorption – increases the % of damage shaved off shielded attacks

Alacrity – Cast/channel Haste

 

None of which you need if you are soloing.

 

Presence – boots companion health, damage and healing

 

is the only one you will need for Soloing. It makes your companion better. Your character does not need the stat boost if you are not raiding.

 

 

Really? I could solo with 0 in all those stats? Funny, all the solo quests are rewarding "raid" gear as well...

[IndoJabijin]

Again no one would care if they were getting Presence gear. The problem is these people Can not accept that. they feel they are entitled to Raid gear because they pay $15 a month even though they do not raid. That is just selfish and ignorance of them. If they want raid gear they should have to raid for it.

Again, I'm not talking about presence. I'm talking about raid gear in general. If the other option was just as time consuming as raiding I don't see why the gear can't be rewarded in several ways.

 

You're basically saying it doesn't matter if it takes 2 weeks of dailys (just an example) to get one piece of gear because they didn't raid for it. Well, sorry, but it does matter.

 

What doesn't matter is how the gear is obtained. As long as all the possibilities require the same amount of dedication who the hell cares how you get it in the first place.

Edited March 19, 2012 by IndoJabijin

[VarenStar]

Basically all you're admitting is that you don't play this game for fun, you only play it to press the lever and get your food pellet.

 

 

Classic. That's going in my sig.

Edited March 19, 2012 by VarenStar

[DarthZin]

Yeah I would totally rather grind mindless dailies for a week to get one piece of gear than run a cool new operation while earning that gear just for doing it. Picking up venom glands off Belsavis mobs like I've been doing for months is definitely really interesting compared to killing an AT-AT with a bunch of my friends.

 

Basically all you're admitting is that you don't play this game for fun, you only play it to press the lever and get your food pellet.

 

Man this guy just took a warhammer and smashed it at the Raiding Community. I have raided for 5 years in WoW and honestly this was an eyeopener.

 

You could say I don't mind other people "farming" their gear. In the end, we will get it first and we got it the way it was meant to be obtained and when they get invited into raids, those who farmed the gear will be expected to know the fights and if not look like **** in front of their peers in their so called "raid gear".

[Bladedakoda]

I am getting tied of the elitest attitude from people like you. "The Best Gear is for only Raiders", To hell with the rest of the gaming community. People who don't have countless hours and have real lives that enjoy other things otherthen gaming steill want to have good gear.

 

So take your pathetic BoHoo story back to WOW and raid until your eyes bleed.

 

Bad players will always be bad.

[Suzina]

Wouldn't an easy fix to this have been to come up with a tiered set of gear like pvp gear that you buy with planet commendations (which already exist) that- instead of having "expertise" has "presence" ?

 

 

pretty interesting idea.

 

I like it, except the point of solo content is to prepare you for raiding. At least, that's the point of solo'ing for me. So I wouldn't solo anymore if it were this way. But good idea regardless.

[SageH]

This allows casual players to get some gear, as well as allowing people that have been shafted by loot to get something. The thing is, raiders are not supposed to be motivated by gear. People that want to raid should be motivated by challenge. Yes, this is unfavorable because of people's time and hard work spent to get that gear. Getting the second tier of gear isn't too bad though when we have 3 tiers.

 

If gear shouldn't be the primary motivating factor for raiding, then gear shouldn't be a motivating factor for a casual.

 

I have no issues with dailies providing the same gear as Story Mode raids, but I don't believe it should be equal to Hard or Nightmare mode gear. But that's just my opinion, if it is then it removes any desire to run Hard/Nightmare mode week after week after the first time when I can put in substantially less time doing dailies. If BioWare's goal is to keep you playing, then as a Raider at heart, this is a poor change to keep me playing after the first week or two. I might as well do my dailies, get the HM gear, and then not log in until Nightmare comes out and kill the same 4 bosses. Oh and btw.. 4 bosses? I hope to god another raid is coming out soon because 4 bosses won't keep anyone busy for very long.

Edited March 19, 2012 by SageH

[ragamer]

Sorry to say but some1 at BW has definitively lost his mind (And I don't want to put a name here... But some of you may know Who I'm refering to).

 

There are the 1st reports on PTS that effectively Corellia dailies give BH commendations. I still need to get data on how much is the "daily pack" of commendations (The cost per T2 generic piece is 60 tokens... By generic I mean that seems they lack set bonuses but... As it's PTS can be something as simple as a tooltip bug)... But the most likely scenario would be to have 1 piece each 1 or 2 weeks (I'm assuming the "daily pack" is similar to the one Ilum or Belsavis give, around 10 dailies commendation).

 

This means 2 things:

 

- The new OP has a strict obsolescence timer, as the gradual gear will help beating the encounters by sheer force instead of actual training. Notice that, as on 1.2 all your gear will be orange, you can get mods + enhancements from the Daily Gear and keep Rakata armorings until you get the direct drop (that I assume still includes the bonus set). For some classes this "finesse" wouldn't be even needed as their set bonuses are so weak that jumping from 140 to 146 rating will compensate.

 

- KP & EV will become automatically obsolete because no1 will use them to gear up when you can skip Rakata level completely (Columi level will be almost instantaneous thanks to smart loot + HM FP lock removal).

 

 

I repeat, there is still some confusion on the whole process, but the "alarm level" is raising gradually here... Allowing ppl easier access to previous OP tier is a must (I would understand that Corellia Dailies allowed ppl to buy Rakata Gear) but...

 

...Removing previous Tier of OPs completely from the game while adding an obsolescence timer to the new one is a REALLY bad decission as the "new" content for every1 will last much less than now.

 

 

Turning now the "paranoid mode" on... Seems that BW want PvPers to be able to skip PvE content even more, to the point of jumping directly to high end without actually having to play it... I wonder, if the above whole scenario applies...

 

...When we can get top PvP gear by doing solo PvE dailies also, just to be sure that "Gear Motivation" is the same for both type of players as "Raiding is just for the challenge" seems a popular "argument" used by PvPers, I guess that "PvPing just for the challenge" would apply also now, don't you think?.

 

 

EDIT: Notice that I'm not even analyzing what a casual player will do with this set of new rules, k? I'm just analyzing this as a dedicated player (PvP or PvE, irrelevant) will use this new gearing paradigm towards Top End gear.

Edited March 19, 2012 by ragamer

[Greuceanu]

this makes my job easyer as a PVE leader in my 100+ guild, i tryed to make a system for priority in raid to satisfy both casual and hardcore , to set a dkp ( Dart Kill Points- as i am republic) .....

 

now all i have to do is ask them to do daily and then show off on fleet

 

if this thing is real and i will have the same gear as a player who has more time , and it's more like a robot doing daily for a job , i'll quit and never come back to this game.......

 

i can play Star Wars RPG (d20 or d100) on a forum, and it's much deeper and free.

[ragamer]

i can play Star Wars RPG (d20 or d100) on a forum, and it's much deeper and free.

 

HERESY!!!!! d6 SW rpg forever here!!!

 

 

Back to this game, I repeat there is still a lot of confusion about this. I have seen some "reports claiming" that the new Tier of gear is in fact 2 sets with different budget, one for Story Mode and another for Hard Mode. The corellia one seems to be Story Mode.

 

The fact that now we will have G7 and G8 materials seems to support this... BUT even if the above would be the case, you can't avoid making EV & KP obsolete... Which is an extremely bad idea...

 

...Speeding access to Rakata Gear is a must because you can't increase the barrier between casuals and hardcores (another mistake) but...

 

...Removing effective content from your game, by breaking the PvE gear chain, is an even bigger mistake (For example, if the above scenario is confirmed... What will make you keep on going for Rakata gear while waiting for 1.2 to hit? If story mode is already far superior and story modes aren't particularly difficult?. I mean, put in perspective of ppl that's doing Nightmare mode now, for example)

 

EDIT: I highlight again the confusion part, take everything I'm talking about with a ton of salt (I encourage you to go to PTS forums to get the idea yourself) but the silence from Devs about this is really worrying... As if they expect the issue to "go through" silently to keep ppl busy while 1.2 hits.

Edited March 19, 2012 by ragamer

[Greuceanu]

 

...Removing effective content from your game is an even bigger mistake.

 

Maybe this is because they just cant fix SoA's bugs

 

damn bioware looking like amators.

[Nessirin]

Because raiding is fun and dailies are gosh darn boring? How about that? Do you ALWAYS need a carrot to go after? Why am I wasting time on counter strike then? I gain nothing outside of gameplay experience.

 

I'd rather raid and get the same gear faster. Just accept that MMOs are heading to the casual side and enjoy raiding for the experience, the gear show off days are soon to be over.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Nessirin

[ragamer]

Because raiding is fun and dailies are gosh darn boring?

 

Precissely because of that.

 

Is not that hard to understand... If you like something, you dedicate time to it...

 

...This includes ALSO farming dailies, which, in turn will reduce dramatically the time needed at the main activity that gear will be used into. It's as simple as that. Some ppl just want to wave their Artifacts left and right and do not like to be on coordinate teams to get them...

 

...I'm the one that wants to have coordinated teams. If lootwhores aren't there to help me, my chances to find a group to go there are diminished, the ammount of ppl that I can recruit to my PvE Guild is reduced, etc, etc, etc. And as they will do it I can't afford to NOT do dailies because my performance will suffer... I don't want to get gear for an activity is not usefull for (I perceive OP gear as "gradual locks" allowing you to reach a step further in the content... Things like this are like "cheats" allowing you to skip such content).

 

 

Most ppl using that reassoning are just PvPers that do not recognize they want the gear (Not implying you are) and that use OPs as a susbtitute to the coordinated group action they lack on PvP WZ...

 

...I have met plenty of them on PuGs with my alt. It's fair, every1 welcomes a change on perspective once in a while...

 

...The question I launch is... Why then do not allow solo PvE grinders to access also Top PvP gear? (Rethoric question... I know the answer). I just want those ppl to understand the issue, I respect that PvPers care a **** about PvE... That's why it's so easy to mirror the situation to trigger on them exactly the same feelings I have ATM for the future of PvE content.

Edited March 19, 2012 by ragamer

[Nessirin]

Precissely because of that.

 

Is not that hard to understand... If you like something, you dedicate time to it...

 

...This includes ALSO farming dailies, which, in turn will reduce dramatically the time needed at the main activity that gear will be used into. It's as simple as that. Some ppl just want to wave their Artifacts left and right and do not like to be on coordinate teams to get them...

 

...I'm the one that wants to have coordinated teams. If lootwhores aren't there to help me, my chances to find a group to go there are diminished, the ammount of ppl that I can recruit to my PvE Guild is reduced, etc, etc, etc. And as they will do it I can't afford to NOT do dailies because my performance will suffer... I don't want to get gear for an activity is not usefull for (I perceive OP gear as "gradual locks" allowing you to reach a step further in the content... Things like this are like "cheats" allowing you to skip such content).

 

 

Most ppl using that reassoning are just PvPers that do not recognize they want the gear (Not implying you are) and that use OPs as a susbtitute to the coordinated group action they lack on PvP WZ...

 

...I have met plenty of them on PuGs with my alt. It's fair, every1 welcomes a change on perspective once in a while...

 

...The question I launch is... Why then do not allow solo PvE grinders to access also Top PvP gear? (Rethoric question... I know the answer). I just want those ppl to understand the issue.

 

But its the same in the pvp board, the only difference is color for the rated gear. In fact, PvE has it better, because so far we get an extra tier over pvp, with better stats over the "freebie" epics (Of course they may introduce a "nightmare" pvp set as well when nightmare raid difficulty comes out, who knows, but I'm just stating what I know so far.

 

Also from what I hear, its a fairly large grind per piece. Similar to the current grind of rakata implants/earpieces. We will have full sets weeks, hell even months before people that do dailies.

 

But yes, this will reduce the amount of time it will take to gear your toon, which for some people may kill the interest in doing raids. I personally love raiding [Except for Soa bugs], and even though I'm in the best gear I can get (aside from one armoring that won't drop) , I still raid with my guildies, and friends. Hell I even help people in normal raids for fun sometimes. To each their own I guess?

Edited March 19, 2012 by Nessirin

[ragamer]

But its the same in the pvp board, the only difference is color for the rated gear.

 

No, it's not... You can't reach Top-PvP upgrades if you do not play on a team (Forced teams is what we know today as WZ queues).

 

What corellia means for OPs is a direct link between totally unrelated activities...

 

...A better mirror would be that BH commendations to be ALSO used to buy the new Tier of PvP Gear.

 

 

What BW is going to do is a new kind of PvP mistake...

 

...By giving Ranked Gear just new looks, that's all. Good luck trying to find competition on Ranked matches.

 

BW is ignoring the Main Pillar on ANY PvP activity, increase number of players in conflict. And this "split" is something akin of what the situation would be with Corellia Commendations vs OPs, that's a common trait both "mistakes" share. I'm asssuming that top ranked PvPers would at least enjoy faster grinding speed (which is not immediatly obvious... Specially if queues length increase for Ranked matches).

 

But I don't want to drift this discussion that way... I suppose PvP players would already have topics about this.

Edited March 19, 2012 by ragamer

[VincentWolf]

Maybe it's made so those of us who doesn't likes pve or, most of all, doesn't likes grouping up, could still get top gear and have same fun as those who raid?

Maybe it's done so those of us who just started playing/rerolled could gear up fast and apply to a decent guild?

[Nessirin]

No, it's not... You can't reach Top-PvP upgrades if you do not play on a team (Forced teams is what we know today as WZ queues).

 

What corellia means for OPs is a direct link between totally unrelated activities...

 

...A better mirror would be that BH commendations to be ALSO used to buy the new Tier of PvP Gear.

 

 

What BW is going to do is a new kind of PvP mistake...

 

...By giving Ranked Gear just new looks, that's all. Good luck trying to find competition on Ranked matches.

 

BW is ignoring the Main Pillar on ANY PvP activity, increase number of players in conflict. And this "split" is something akin of what the situation would be with Corellia Commendations vs OPs, that's a common trait both "mistakes" share. I'm asssuming that top ranked PvPers would at least enjoy faster grinding speed (which is not immediatly obvious... Specially if queues length increase for Ranked matches).

 

But I don't want to drift this discussion that way... I suppose PvP players would already have topics about this.

 

Actually you can, you can get ranked points for solo queing There are solo and 8v8 ranked WZs.You may not get great rating, but you still get points, and the unrated gear has the SAME EXACT STATS. I assume you haven't been playing on PTS if you're that misinformed?

 

They have made 0 announcements on pvp gear outside of what is currently present on the PTS. And they said that ranked gear is going to have "prestige coloring" , which it does. It has no bonus stats whats so ever. It is not a champion => BM like it was before. Its dark red => neon pink. (For a lack of better comparison, blunt statement: Rank makes you stand out more, that's it. Whoopadiedoo.)

 

 

P.S I'm not disagreeing with you here, I enjoy the gear grind. But we get what we get, and I'm going to try to enjoy it through experience like a shooter, and not through gear progression like an mmo, heh. Fail? Perhaps. We will see what happens, as well as when nightmare gear/difficulty comes out.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Nessirin