Arsenal Mercs...why?

[Mrs_Murder]

Arsenal is getting a buff, not a nerf. Lol.

 

10% TM nerf + more barrage procs = dps increase from what i can see... too many chicken littles in here.

 

Don't forget damage buff to heatseeker. Cause like... 5k crits wasn't enough.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Mrs_Murder

[Anatlos]

Still can only proc 1 time every 6 seconds I assume.

 

I can still assume a starting series will be TMx3, Unload, TMx2, Railshot&Heatseeker

 

then back to the priority

Unload on proc

HMS

Railshot

TM if debuffs/buffs falling off

TM if heat ok

rapid shot

 

this looks fine for PvE, nothing changed at all. I do wish they would let us have combat logs for a couple days before the patch so we could really see what a 10% nerf to TM does to our total damage output.

 

There's this wonderful thing called the Public Test Server... hop on there and see for yourself. If you have to have other people give you logs to figure out whether you can kill things or not, there's something terribly wrong.

[Gethsemane]

Don't forget damage buff to heatseeker. Cause like... 5k crits wasn't enough.

 

yer because a 15 second cooldown ability makes all the difference in PvP:rolleyes: especially one that seems to bounce off bubbles with gay abandon...

[Anatlos]

Don't forget damage buff to heatseeker. Cause like... 5k crits wasn't enough.

 

yer because a 15 second cooldown ability makes all the difference in PvP:rolleyes: especially one that seems to bounce off bubbles with gay abandon...

 

Force Charge is a 15 second cooldown...

[Schaede]

There's this wonderful thing called the Public Test Server... hop on there and see for yourself. If you have to have other people give you logs to figure out whether you can kill things or not, there's something terribly wrong.

 

I can jump on PTS all I want and pull numbers, but I have no baseline to compare them to. Does the 10% increase to HSM and the increased proc rate of Barrage mitigate the 10% decrease in TM damage? We can go off of gut feeling right now, nothing else.

[Anatlos]

* No cooldown - its channeled spell...

 

* 4k damage each one (While wearing BM Gear)

 

bunch of defensive cooldowns - LOL

 

heals - did you ever see merc that heal himself with his heals succesfuly in fight? .........................................................................

 

It's not a channeled spell, it's a spell with an activation time. If it looks like it's being "channeled", it's being spammed. Also, a 1.5 second cast time finishes its cast time at the end of the global cooldown, effectively making it spammable with no cooldown.

[Anatlos]

I can jump on PTS all I want and pull numbers, but I have no baseline to compare them to. Does the 10% increase to HSM and the increased proc rate of Barrage mitigate the 10% decrease in TM damage? We can go off of gut feeling right now, nothing else.

 

You're looking at this the wrong way, so let me put it this way:

 

"With the upcoming changes, can I still kill things?"

 

That's all that matters.

[Gethsemane]

Force Charge is a 15 second cooldown...

 

so what! That's a completely different ability on a different class who actually uses said ability in a completely different rotation.

 

you know comparing apples to oranges because they happen to both be fruit and round is the stuff of idiocy.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Gethsemane

[Anatlos]

so what! That's a completely different ability on a different class who actually uses said ability in a completely different rotation.

 

you know comparing apples to oranges because they happen to both be fruit and round is the stuff of idiocy.

 

It's a 15 second cooldown that can be a game-changer in an appropriate situations, and thus it rendered your argument invalid.

[Cegenaus]

It's a 15 second cooldown that can be a game-changer in an appropriate situations, and thus it rendered your argument invalid.

 

its a movement ability with an interrupt not a damage ability. we have one called jetboost that is a knockback with a snare on a 15 sec cd specced, whos argument is invalid now?

[smokeylemons]

Sorry TM is not nerfed enough.

 

* Gives back energy on crit

* No cooldown

* Kinectic Damage

* Reduce Armor

* 4k damage each one (While wearing BM Gear)

 

 

Tell me any other skill that does that.

 

 

Lets not add you prance around with heavy armor, bunch of defensive cooldowns and heals.

 

I hit on average 2.8-3.2 k on most targets while I hit tank for 2.2-2.5 (assuming these are all crits with 2 piece rakata & rest BM with crit and surge at (30-35%,70-75%)

 

However, if its a fresh 50 with adrenals and relics up your gna hit for 4.2-4.4 k tracer with a 5.6 -5.8 k hsm.

 

With the new 1.2, I might see number just as high at 6.6 k for hsm. I cant wait.

Edited March 21, 2012 by smokeylemons

[Yazule]

I just don't get it.

 

Arsenal was already underpowered relative to its sister skill tree pyro. By early game theory calculations, arsenal's dps is, on balance, even weaker post patch.

 

Further, arsenal has always been an easy target in PvP with jet boost and power barrier providing the ability to stave off the inevitable only breifly vs less flat footed classes/specs unless a team mate comes to your aid very quickly. What is the thinking behind these nerfs?

 

I just...I don't get what goes through developers minds...

 

not a 1v1 pvp game

 

fyi the changes won't change rotations much at all, and if unload procs more and does more damage then there is a decent chance it may be better than it was (and HSM dps buff)

[SamuraiCrazy]

as yazule said, and the devs have repetedly said "classes are not tuned to 1v1 pvp, they are tuned to group pvp"

 

also....there is thing called pve they have to consider as well, from which perspective arsenal has actually received a buff and increased heat management from the barrage proc.

 

pvp wise, i'd have to say same thing. they'll just look for the unload more then the tracer.

[Iandayen]

So I did some PVP on the PTR today.

 

Our burst damage has gone through the roof with this change rofl.

 

On live, I have to work pretty hard to get a 5k crit on someone, and that's popping everything I had and hoping he was a squishy target.

 

On PTR - 3 tracer missiles and then my HSM crit 80% of the time for over 5k, some cases it hit for 6k.

 

Second match I ran with another arsenal merc from guild.

 

Both of us got our tracer debuffs on and we both used HSM - almost identical gear, just some changes in enhancements and mods.

 

Mine crit for 6.8k his crit for 6.5 - we killed the guy even though he was being pocket healed. 2 tracers hit him at the same time those HSM's hit - 2k + 2k + 6.8k + 6.5 = 17.3k damage done instantly. We were both using rakata gear - we had zero expertise.

 

GG crybabies, got me buffed to the point you will melt if you are alive long enough for me to get my debuffs up. And if you have 2 mercs on you? Dirt nap time.

 

Go ahead and interrupt my tracer missile though, because I almost always have a varrage proc ready to go, so you decide - 2k crit and take 2 stacks of armor debuff, or 3 tics of 2200 damage + other random hits from my offhand thrown in.

[IrishPennant]

• how big is our resource pool? 600 force?
  
• it has a 1.5 sec activation time. this means its easily interpretable and los'ed. it also means we cant move while using it
  
• good thing it doesnt apply an internal dot that cant be cleansed huh
  
• i seem to have seen other skills that reduce armor
  
• 4k damage huh? show me that video please because you are talking out of your ***
  

 

name these defensive cooldowns you speak of. while you are at it name these so called heals we use as well with their healing rate and heat cost. ill see your heavy armor argument and raise you force camo, cloaking screen, force cloak, and force speed. heavy armor isnt looking so good is it now?

 

dont let the door hit you in the *** on the way out of our forum now!

 

 

This

 

[Irishbrewed]

So I did some PVP on the PTR today.

 

Our burst damage has gone through the roof with this change rofl.

 

On live, I have to work pretty hard to get a 5k crit on someone, and that's popping everything I had and hoping he was a squishy target.

 

On PTR - 3 tracer missiles and then my HSM crit 80% of the time for over 5k, some cases it hit for 6k.

 

Second match I ran with another arsenal merc from guild.

 

Both of us got our tracer debuffs on and we both used HSM - almost identical gear, just some changes in enhancements and mods.

 

Mine crit for 6.8k his crit for 6.5 - we killed the guy even though he was being pocket healed. 2 tracers hit him at the same time those HSM's hit - 2k + 2k + 6.8k + 6.5 = 17.3k damage done instantly. We were both using rakata gear - we had zero expertise.

 

GG crybabies, got me buffed to the point you will melt if you are alive long enough for me to get my debuffs up. And if you have 2 mercs on you? Dirt nap time.

 

Go ahead and interrupt my tracer missile though, because I almost always have a varrage proc ready to go, so you decide - 2k crit and take 2 stacks of armor debuff, or 3 tics of 2200 damage + other random hits from my offhand thrown in.

 

Lies... Too obvious

[AAmedeo]

Yea...anytime you have a spammable attack that hits regularly for 3-4k plus debuffs and buffs, its gonna get nerfed. I used to be one of the ones that was saying TM wasnt that bad, then I got some gear, in a nice mix of columi and champ gear I regularly see TM hitting harder than HSM, thats just not right.

 

Fine... So in 1.2 it will take 25% longer to cast and do 10% less damage. Might as well take it off your bar now. Oh, but wait, all your other attacks are useless without the TM buffs/Debuffs. Be ready to be left out of Raid Groups and on the bottom of PvP rankings.

Edited March 22, 2012 by AAmedeo

[Rehme]

Fine... So in 1.2 it will take 25% longer to cast and do 10% less damage. Might as well take it off your bar now. Oh, but wait, all your other attacks are useless without the TM buffs/Debuffs. Be ready to be left out of Raid Groups and on the bottom of PvP rankings.

 

Did you actually read the patch notes? The change to muzzle fluting will make the casting time for TM a wash. As for the 10% damage loss to TM the only people that are going to be impacted are the terribad TM spammers who have every key on their keyboard and mouse bound to 1 ability. That 10% damage loss is going to feel like a nerf to you. Now if you are one of those people, like myself, who already mix in other abilities to their rotations you'll be fine. It will all even out for us due to the buffing of HSM and UL.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Rehme

[Daiyukie]

Tracer Missile sets up other abilities. Has always been that way. Bioware is emphasizing this by buffing those other abilities and taking some damage off Tracer Missile. It's not a nerf

[Rehme]

but but but I wanna spam tracer missile all day long!!!!

[Cancerianmoth]

This game is not even centered around PvP, yet just because there is PvP, it becomes centered on it. I just don't understand what all the negativity is with every single class in the game. Apparently everything is hunky dory in PvE, all the negativity is centered on PvP.

 

Exactly. On a side note- I do still think tracer missile does insane dmg on top of all the boosts all in 1.5 secs. The nerf in 1.2 really brings it in. For all those benefits- there should be more "cost" to the ability.

[Iandayen]

Lies... Too obvious

 

Not lies.

 

But now not going to happen - until this morning on the PTR - the talent that made heat signatures buff your HSM stacked between two mercenaries making that possible.

 

HSM still hits like a truck now, but you aren't going to see 7k hits (in pvp) because they patched in a fix for it this morning.

 

You should still have no problem seeing 5.5k-6k hits on a fully debuffed target though.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Iandayen

[Yazule]

Sorry TM is not nerfed enough.

 

* Gives back energy on crit

* No cooldown

* Kinectic Damage

* Reduce Armor

* 4k damage each one (While wearing BM Gear)

 

 

Tell me any other skill that does that.

 

 

Lets not add you prance around with heavy armor, bunch of defensive cooldowns and heals.

 

i nominate you for the most clueless person (on how arsenal merc is played) for the week.

 

1) we have heat not energy, and pretty much everything gives back heat on crit, probably because in beta they realized heat costs were too high for viability

 

2) it has a cast time, and we have to stack 5 of them to get the maximum use of our debuffs... debuff lasts only 15 seconds, a cooldown would *break* the mechanic*

 

3) what is wrong with kinetic damage? almost every big hit against me is elemental or force driven, except snipers

 

4) they will not hit for 4k after the patch (thats the nerf)

 

5) heavy armor is ignored by anything but white damage (see #3)

 

6) arsenals healing is pathetic, we can heal for 1/3 to 1/2 of one damage hit and it takes twice as long to cast as most attacks

 

7) defensive cooldowns? 25% damage reduction for 15 sec is nothing esp with the long cooldown (unlike bubbles which absorb all and actually allow a dps to heal) and our kolto is a 1k heal with like another 1k over time, again smaller than most hits and it is a HOT.

 

you think they are so good roll one and then come back and facepalm when you are not a living god.

[-Eternal-]

You know whats funny, if you go by this forum, the entire class forum, none of the classes that are currently in the game are worth anything. It seems to me that there is a ton of negativity about every class, that one has to ask themselves why even play the game if every single class is so bad?

 

I'm not talking about just the BH, every single forum within the class section is so negative that it's like every class is crap and no one should play it. So, if that is the case, there is no reason to even play the game, and we all just wasted a lot of money on it.

 

This game is not even centered around PvP, yet just because there is PvP, it becomes centered on it. I just don't understand what all the negativity is with every single class in the game. Apparently everything is hunky dory in PvE, all the negativity is centered on PvP.

 

 

Well that is because BW is choosing each class by the most complaints from the forums to nerf (all non-jedi of course). Then these nerfs don't do any sort of balance but utterly destroy the class (example: operative on the last big nerf). BH will be the next casualty.

 

He who complains the most is getting rewarded...

Edited March 23, 2012 by -Eternal-

[Daellia]

3) what is wrong with kinetic damage? almost every big hit against me is elemental or force driven, except snipers

 

5) heavy armor is ignored by anything but white damage (see #3)

 

Incorrect. While there is a widespread assumption that Force attacks ignore armor, this is untrue. Only attacks that deal Internal or Elemental damage bypass armor. The overwhelming majority of Force attacks (and tech attacks, for that matter) deal either Kinetic or Energy. For example, all of a Sorc's lightning attacks deal energy damage and therefore are mitigated by armor. The only effects a Sorc has that bypass armor are Affliction, Creeping Terror, Death Field, and Thundering Blast. All of them are mitigated either by being DoTs or possessing a 9-15 second cooldown (or both), and TB is mutually exclusive with CT and DF. All other damage effects from a Sorc are Energy or Kinetic. This same pattern exists in most classes, so your armor at least is far more beneficial than you seem to think.

 

White versus Yellow signifies whether the attack can be defended and shielded against or not, nothing more. Read the article I wrote on it here for a more thorough explanation.

 

On a side note, I'm not sure if it's been posted around these forums yet or not, but the current PTS game files are showing a 30% buff to Heatseeker Missiles, rather than the 10% buff stated in the patch notes. To be specific, the formula for HsM in 1.1.5 is:

 

[273.7 to 370.3] + 200% Bonus Damage

 

The one currently present in the 1.2 PTS files is:

 

[338.1 to 499.1] + 260% Bonus Damage