So Our Heals are OP?

[Jeighkub]

Do not mention anything on the PTS here please or it will be moved.

 

I simply want to know how we are so overpowered? All I hear about it how Sage\Sorc healing is OP then based on actions that Bioware has taken that we will not mention, obviously the current belief is that we are overpowered.

 

Currently I believe that Merc Heat is just right as far as managing and not overheating. I think our buffs and damage reduction make our healing dynamic and interesting.

 

Please someone smarter than me, inform me how we are so overpowered all of the sudden?

[Hyfy]

Uhhhhhhhh 43?

[Jeighkub]

Thanks for the Troll. Anyone have some good reasons why Merc healing is OP?

[Nonnolol]

Thanks for the Troll. Anyone have some good reasons why Merc healing is OP?

 

Healing got nerfed across the board. The merc nerfs were most severe, but sorc's were hit hard as well. The angry mob on the pvp forums win again. They literally threaten to quit whenever they don't get what they want, and so far it's worked every time.

 

Free gear in 1.2, marauder buffs (lol), and across the board healing nerfs.

[Jeighkub]

Don't talk about 1.2! I simply want to know how BH's are so overpowered when it comes to healing?

[DomingoDarkrage]

with supercharge gas, we could easily spam heals for 13 seconds without a significant increase in heat. Since it only takes 15 seconds to get ready to use supercharge again, that was a lot of healing, apparently more than intended. Combine the effects of kolto missile during supercharge gas (+10% healing done, +5 healing received for 15 seconds, +10% damage absorption for 15 seconds, hits three targets), our own heavy armor, kolto shell, our energy shield specced to cause us to be un-inturrutptable, and we could tank 4 players in PVP for over 15 seconds. I would do it regularly on Alderan, tying up 2-3 people on a node solo while my team caps a point. In void star, if someone guarded you, you pretty much will not die due to the above.

 

We are currently rather overpowered. I group with an inquis who is squishy as a cooked bean. Sure, they can do a lot of healing, but 1 class can lock them down and destroy an inquis within a short period of time. 1 guy beating on a merc healer, unless it is a maurader we don't care.

 

PVE is different though. We could solo heal hardmode OP's and even some nightmare encounters, but every healing class might be able to if the OP does stuff right- i dont know that for sure.

[Neltharek]

We weren't. Crybabies in pvp didn't like that we did more than simply heal our target. We made them harder to kill through a damage reduction and an increase in healing done to the target.

[Noviru]

Hello everyone!

 

We wanted to take a minute to clear up any confusion about what does, or doesn't belong in the Public Test Server forum.

 

If you wish to compare and contrast the current Mercenary Bodyguard Spec to the planned changes in Patch 1.2, that is perfectly acceptable to do in the Mercenary subforum. As outlined in our How to Post in PTS! guide,

Make sure that your threads relate directly to the notes for the current PTS version. We are specifically looking for your feedback on the new changes and any NEW bugs that may exist on the PTS related to these changes.

So as long as your posts relate to the Bodyguard as they currently operate on the Live Servers, you can reference planned changes. However, if the conversation becomes entirely focused on the Patch 1.2 notes, this thread will be redirected to one of the previously existing topics, to help keep such discussions consolidated:

• Merc Healer nerf 1.2 - Mercenary Subforum
  
• BH - healing ... Balance are bio calling it? - Public Test Server Forum
  
• Bounty Hunter Nerf pretty big. - Public Test Server Forum

We hope this clears up any confusion. Thank you!

Edited March 18, 2012 by Noviru

[Jeighkub]

with supercharge gas, we could easily spam heals for 13 seconds without a significant increase in heat. Since it only takes 15 seconds to get ready to use supercharge again, that was a lot of healing, apparently more than intended. Combine the effects of kolto missile during supercharge gas (+10% healing done, +5 healing received for 15 seconds, +10% damage absorption for 15 seconds, hits three targets), our own heavy armor, kolto shell, our energy shield specced to cause us to be un-inturrutptable, and we could tank 4 players in PVP for over 15 seconds. I would do it regularly on Alderan, tying up 2-3 people on a node solo while my team caps a point. In void star, if someone guarded you, you pretty much will not die due to the above.

 

So basically We are not overpowered in PVE only PVP. That means nothing to me I signed for this game to do operations. Why should my pve experience be penalized because some pvp kids are crying that Merc heals are OP?

[grandmthethird]

this is not an OP merc, this is a PO'ed merc

[Neltharek]

with supercharge gas, we could easily spam heals for 13 seconds without a significant increase in heat. Since it only takes 15 seconds to get ready to use supercharge again, that was a lot of healing, apparently more than intended. Combine the effects of kolto missile during supercharge gas (+10% healing done, +5 healing received for 15 seconds, +10% damage absorption for 15 seconds, hits three targets), our own heavy armor, kolto shell, our energy shield specced to cause us to be un-inturrutptable, and we could tank 4 players in PVP for over 15 seconds. I would do it regularly on Alderan, tying up 2-3 people on a node solo while my team caps a point. In void star, if someone guarded you, you pretty much will not die due to the above.

 

We are currently rather overpowered. I group with an inquis who is squishy as a cooked bean. Sure, they can do a lot of healing, but 1 class can lock them down and destroy an inquis within a short period of time. 1 guy beating on a merc healer, unless it is a maurader we don't care.

 

PVE is different though. We could solo heal hardmode OP's and even some nightmare encounters, but every healing class might be able to if the OP does stuff right- i dont know that for sure.

 

 

So the real question here is why in gods name would you give a class with this much burst healing the ability to be un-interruptable. Maybe reducing the time SCG is active and removing energy shields immunity to interrupts would have been a better fix since you'd still be susceptible to being shut out from healing.

 

But hey it's easier to murder a spec for PVE claiming PVP balance right?

[Syylara]

with supercharge gas, we could easily spam heals for 13 seconds without a significant increase in heat. Since it only takes 15 seconds to get ready to use supercharge again, that was a lot of healing, apparently more than intended. Combine the effects of kolto missile during supercharge gas (+10% healing done, +5 healing received for 15 seconds, +10% damage absorption for 15 seconds, hits three targets), our own heavy armor, kolto shell, our energy shield specced to cause us to be un-inturrutptable, and we could tank 4 players in PVP for over 15 seconds. I would do it regularly on Alderan, tying up 2-3 people on a node solo while my team caps a point. In void star, if someone guarded you, you pretty much will not die due to the above.

 

We are currently rather overpowered. I group with an inquis who is squishy as a cooked bean. Sure, they can do a lot of healing, but 1 class can lock them down and destroy an inquis within a short period of time. 1 guy beating on a merc healer, unless it is a maurader we don't care.

 

PVE is different though. We could solo heal hardmode OP's and even some nightmare encounters, but every healing class might be able to if the OP does stuff right- i dont know that for sure.

 

Uninterpretable does not mean immune to CCs, knockdowns, knockbacks, stuns all still stop casting.

 

If 4 people are beating on you and can't stop your heals enough to kill you, the problem isn't being overpowered.

 

If 2-3 people are beating on you when your shield is up, have residue and SCG is active while ignoring the people capping the point, again, the problem isn't being overpowered.

 

The former is a result of failing to properly coordinate, the latter is a lack of situational awareness.

[Laby]

We're not even op in pvp.. Tell me, if we try to kill someone as a healer in pvp we will usually heatlock? Right?!!? Right?! **** bioware and screw their stupid game.

[DomingoDarkrage]

the ability to use a lot of healing within the supercharge gas time allowed us to be really efficient for PVE as well. I do not know if other healing classes could solo heal hardmode/nightmare operations (8 man), but merc's could, and have done it. Since I have only done it a few fights when our other healer dropped, i cannot attest to how OP the healing is for the merc in PVE. I know some OP groups will specifically only take one merc healer, to grab another DPS, and I'm not sure how intended that is, 1 healer for 8 people.

 

PVP is different. we are near invulnerable if we had full resolve, our shield, and supercharge ready. There is no practical reason to assault a mercenary who has their shield up, as well as superchage gas active. A good DPS class needs to recognize this, find a new target, and come back after 15 seconds (shield and supercharge down) when the merc is vulnerable

[grandmthethird]

even if it is true we are a little OP. its not to the extent of the nerf that we have coming. all that was needed was a little bit of sanding around the edges. what we have here is a pommel with a sledge (nerf) hammer. they have not balanced our healing they have broken it, our heat to heal ratio is un-manageble now.

 

and what is worse. by the sound of it. my PVE healing has only been nerfed in such a way because of PVP.

[Amien]

Thanks for making this post! Reading these makes me feel MUCH better! (Level 22 merc atm). Now I see why they wanted to make some changes if mercs were able to heal 2 groups at once.

[polopopoo]

Once people begin using the combat log, if they bothered to make it work with healing, we'll see how op are heals are in HM/NM's. I have seen a sorc solo heal bosses in HM"s pretty sure most bodyguards couldn't pull it off

[Konow]

I believe the "op'ness" comes from being able to chug out too much burst healing.

 

Healing Scan -> Rapid Scan -> Thermal Sensor Override + Power Surge -> Rapid Scan -> Emergency Scan.

 

Assuming all spells in this rotation crits, which it often does, you'll be looking at +20k healing in 5 secs or so (depending on gear and alacrity values) and ending up at 0 heat in the end.

Ontop of that you can still have a free Kolto shell on target ticking in the background. The other healing classes aren't able to do that.

They all have different niches, and I for one wouldn't mind being tank spammer.

 

Tho imo they went abit overboard with the proposed changes. It's no doubt going to be adjusted. We'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out when we go live.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Konow

[ianthemannn]

We got nerfed because 1000 bads cried that they couldnt kill me while I was spamming heals on myself when our only useful ability (energy shield) was up. I am in full bm gear, and I have republic players I have a hard time staying alive against 1 on 1 because they know how to play their class. When I am standing in place spamming heals on people it doesn't take much skill to turn and either cc me or interupt me...yet 80% of the time I am just freecasting, or I am being camped by 5 players the entire game, in which case I need that survival or else I would spend most of the game in the graveyard waiting to "respawn"

 

Outside of our supposed "op" heals, we have 1/5 the useful utility spells that most other classes have; now with the nerf we have ****** heals and ****** abilities. Thanks for nothing Bioware. I'm not going to threaten to quit just yet because I haven't played the PTR, but if it is as miserable to play my merc as I think it will be after the patch you better believe my sub will be canceled so fast. Everyone else I know already quit this game before they even dinged 50, people who played wow for 5 years, and this game lost their interest in less than 2 months. Must be an amazing game.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Sireene
use of retarded - PM'd

[skotish]

We got nerfed because 1000 bads cried that they couldnt kill me while I was spamming heals on myself when our only useful ability (energy shield) was up. I am in full bm gear, and I have republic players I have a hard time staying alive against 1 on 1 because they know how to play their class. When I am standing in place spamming heals on people it doesn't take much skill to turn and either cc me or interupt me...yet 80% of the time I am just freecasting, or I am being camped by 5 players the entire game, in which case I need that survival or else I would spend most of the game in the graveyard waiting to "respawn"

 

Outside of our supposed "op" heals, we have 1/5 the useful utility spells that most other classes have; now with the nerf we have ****** heals and ****** abilities. Thanks for nothing Bioware. I'm not going to threaten to quit just yet because I haven't played the PTR, but if it is as miserable to play my merc as I think it will be after the patch you better believe my sub will be canceled so fast. Everyone else I know already quit this game before they even dinged 50, people who played wow for 5 years, and this game lost their interest in less than 2 months. Must be an amazing game.

I just dinged 50 on my Bh healer and damn we need our shield 1 kb and a stun that really cant get you far or out of trouble i have 150 expertise I get creamed badly in Wz lol

Edited April 11, 2012 by Sireene
quote of edited post

[Yazule]

Don't talk about 1.2! I simply want to know how BH's are so overpowered when it comes to healing?

 

they never overheat.

 

it isnt that healing is OP, it is that heat management is a joke if you know what you are doing...

[Dartagon]

This is why we are OP

 

http://www.ic-theorder.enjin.com/profile/1375384/pics/detail/album_id/123381#pid=651706

 

 

Enjoy. Yes, I play on a good server, and its a PVP server.

 

Iron Citadel.

[Niconogood]

 

PVP is different. we are near invulnerable if we had full resolve, our shield, and supercharge ready. There is no practical reason to assault a mercenary who has their shield up, as well as superchage gas active. A good DPS class needs to recognize this, find a new target, and come back after 15 seconds (shield and supercharge down) when the merc is vulnerable

 

Interrupts anyone?

 

Ok, heres the deal, and why merc healers are NOT OP.

 

Merc healers are good against scrubs that dont utilize their skills. Against any decent player heres what happens against ie a marauder:

 

First heal interrupted (long CD ability), seconds heal interrupted (locked out for 4 sec). By now you are getting low hp and use your instaheal and cast reactive shield if it happens to not be on CD with its horrid CDtimer. You start to cast a a heal again but gets force choked. You get off maybe two or three heals in the duration of reactive shield (if its more than one you will hardly get off one, between knockbacks, stuns or mezzes). Reactive shield wears out. By now you basically got 4-5 seconds left to live. You throw koltobomb for whooping 1k healing, he will do 2k+ to you in the same period of time. You use tech override for a heal 2,5-4,5k. You can stun him, he breaks out. You can use tech override to mez him and heal up. However it will only postbone the inevitable.

 

Bottom line is however that with a marauder on you, you wont be able to heal, and you wont even be able to keep yourself up, and he will kill you.

 

I dont understand how anyone with a in depth knowledge of the game would consider healing mercs OP. Ok, you cant just spam you dps peen abilities and get him down in 3 sec, but its so easily counterable.

[Valfodr]

Interrupts anyone?

 

Ok, heres the deal, and why merc healers are NOT OP.

 

Merc healers are good against scrubs that dont utilize their skills. Against any decent player heres what happens against ie a marauder:

 

First heal interrupted (long CD ability), seconds heal interrupted (locked out for 4 sec). By now you are getting low hp and use your instaheal and cast reactive shield if it happens to not be on CD with its horrid CDtimer. You start to cast a a heal again but gets force choked. You get off maybe two or three heals in the duration of reactive shield (if its more than one you will hardly get off one, between knockbacks, stuns or mezzes). Reactive shield wears out. By now you basically got 4-5 seconds left to live. You throw koltobomb for whooping 1k healing, he will do 2k+ to you in the same period of time. You use tech override for a heal 2,5-4,5k. You can stun him, he breaks out. You can use tech override to mez him and heal up. However it will only postbone the inevitable.

 

Bottom line is however that with a marauder on you, you wont be able to heal, and you wont even be able to keep yourself up, and he will kill you.

 

I dont understand how anyone with a in depth knowledge of the game would consider healing mercs OP. Ok, you cant just spam you dps peen abilities and get him down in 3 sec, but its so easily counterable.

 

Those healing numbers are abit higher than they should be for someone with trauma and the saber healing debuff. My wife makes me rage so hard in duels because she can and will, quite literally chew my *** up and spit me out. I spend so much time trying to get around a good marauders bag of tricks that I don't have time to DPS her.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Valfodr

[fujeo-finel]

with supercharge gas, we could easily spam heals for 13 seconds without a significant increase in heat. Since it only takes 15 seconds to get ready to use supercharge again, that was a lot of healing, apparently more than intended. Combine the effects of kolto missile during supercharge gas (+10% healing done, +5 healing received for 15 seconds, +10% damage absorption for 15 seconds, hits three targets), our own heavy armor, kolto shell, our energy shield specced to cause us to be un-inturrutptable, and we could tank 4 players in PVP for over 15 seconds. I would do it regularly on Alderan, tying up 2-3 people on a node solo while my team caps a point. In void star, if someone guarded you, you pretty much will not die due to the above.

 

Instead of nerfing our sustained output via heat management, they should've nerfed our burst healing and uptime on Supercharge Gas by either lowering the amount of charge per Rapid Scan, or increasing the amount of charge needed for Supercharge. Personally I only use Supercharge gas for emergency burst healing, usually to make up for our crappy AoE. If Mercs are using Supercharge too much then nerf the uptime. As it stands now, with the heat buff to Power Shot, and assuming it is heat becomes a problem during Supercharge, it appears that Supercharge may have to be up as much as possible to maintain the groups HP at a steady level to cope with predictable burst damage, while spamming Power Shot to keep heat down.

 

This is all conjecture though, I haven't healed at all since the patch.