Rogmar Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Anomaly = standard. Edited March 23, 2012 by Paralassa content quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 The deal with Guard is that there is such limited thought put into how it is used, especially when it comes to PvP. Find a target near near you and guard and forget You can put limited thought into basically anything - doesn't mean you should. Guard is primarily an anti-burst ability. You have to know who is taking burst damage and where they are in order to use it effectively. Do you think they should put cooldowns on every ability so that it's impossible to spam the same button over and over? Seems like your line of thinking on guard might lead you to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Jay Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I still really don't get the cry for a nerf, 5% damage is all that is lost through guard. As far as taunts go, if a player is taunted and still pummels away on the same target, whose fault is that, the class or the opposing player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raesti Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 so an active Cd seems like a great idea for pvp. the only thought I have about that would it break the over aspect of the game. I haven't done much over so my experience is limited in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raesti Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 You can put limited thought into basically anything - doesn't mean you should. Guard is primarily an anti-burst ability. You have to know who is taking burst damage and where they are in order to use it effectively. Do you think they should put cooldowns on every ability so that it's impossible to spam the same button over and over? Seems like your line of thinking on guard might lead you to that conclusion. if it was an anti burst ability it would be short duration. stop the open and the big hits and be like a defensive cd. right now it is a static reduce damage reduction of 50% to the player guarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) if it was an anti burst ability it would be short duration. stop the open and the big hits and be like a defensive cd. right now it is a static reduce damage reduction of 50% to the player guarded Yes, and that damage is transfered to the tank. So instead of being a burst on one target, it essentially changes the damage into an AE that hits two targets. Same total damage (essentially), easier to heal. Edited March 17, 2012 by Lymain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raesti Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 yeah but that is the problem. it is a LOT easier to heal. there should be more of a thought process involved to spread damage out that much. especially with multiple healers and tanks it becomes too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceansofmars Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I normally dont agree with most whines but I do think guard does too much right now. It could probably be nerfed to only 25% in all fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 yeah but that is the problem. it is a LOT easier to heal. there should be more of a thought process involved to spread damage out that much. especially with multiple healers and tanks it becomes too easy. Yeah, but what if you attack a non-guarded target? Then it's not easier to heal at all! And what if you attack the tank who has guard up? Any stray damage that hits the guarded target will actually make it HARDER to heal!!! *gasp* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Jay Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yeah, but what if you attack a non-guarded target? Then it's not easier to heal at all! And what if you attack the tank who has guard up? Any stray damage that hits the guarded target will actually make it HARDER to heal!!! *gasp* Wait, you mean attack the tank, who is already taking 50% damage from the healer, on top of the direct damage he is receiving? No way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kayko_ Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yeah, but what if you attack a non-guarded target? Then it's not easier to heal at all! Yes, you are attacking a non guarded target with 15-17K health pool. Attacking the guarded target is like going after one with a 31K-35K health pool. And what if you attack the tank who has guard up? Any stray damage that hits the guarded target will actually make it HARDER to heal!!! *gasp* Damage is still being split, Two targets become one with an additional 5% damage reduction on the guarded target. (like I stated earlier, that reduction is 2% more reduced damage then going from Centurion gear to Battlemaster gear. In other words, a fair amount when it comes to what is currently available for constant 100% upkeep damage reductions) If you are using AoE on 2 targets, you are doing it wrong. If you can use AoE effectively, then you are on the Voidstar. In a 2V2 situation (Tank/Healer team), focusing the tank allows a healer to just stand still and easily keep a tank up and also include whatever the specific tank ability is to reduces all damage taken. Or you focus the Healer that essentially has over 2X their normal health pool who also have talents that increase healing to themselves. Splitting the damage just means that now both the tank and guarded healer have an additional 5% damage reduction that you are trying to burn through and all that for doing nothing more then being within 15 yards of each other. I would need some clarification on it, but is there a chance that the transferred damage is also mitigated by the specific tank skill and additional X%? With however you would like to approach the ability, the down to basic form of the ability is boring. A Low skill cap with a fairly high yield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raesti Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yes, you are attacking a non guarded target with 15-17K health pool. Attacking the guarded target is like going after one with a 31K-35K health pool. Damage is still being split, Two targets become one with an additional 5% damage reduction on the guarded target. (like I stated earlier, that reduction is 2% more reduced damage then going from Centurion gear to Battlemaster gear. In other words, a fair amount when it comes to what is currently available for constant 100% upkeep damage reductions) If you are using AoE on 2 targets, you are doing it wrong. If you can use AoE effectively, then you are on the Voidstar. In a 2V2 situation (Tank/Healer team), focusing the tank allows a healer to just stand still and easily keep a tank up and also include whatever the specific tank ability is to reduces all damage taken. Or you focus the Healer that essentially has over 2X their normal health pool who also have talents that increase healing to themselves. Splitting the damage just means that now both the tank and guarded healer have an additional 5% damage reduction that you are trying to burn through and all that for doing nothing more then being within 15 yards of each other. I would need some clarification on it, but is there a chance that the transferred damage is also mitigated by the specific tank skill and additional X%? With however you would like to approach the ability, the down to basic form of the ability is boring. A Low skill cap with a fairly high yield. the way I understand it the guarded damage passes through the tanks mitigation. I may be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 With however you would like to approach the ability, the down to basic form of the ability is boring. A Low skill cap with a fairly high yield. It's actually quite difficult to make the absolute best use of Guard, which means that it has a fairly high "skill cap." The ideal use changes based on several factors, including who is getting focused/burst'd, how much healing is being done, and even the objective in a warzone. The fact that you can just put it on a healer and keep it on them mindlessly means that it has a fairly low "skill floor," but even that doesn't make it "fire and forget" since you have to be within range to get the benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kayko_ Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 At this point, it doesn't even matter. With the upcoming changes, a healer with guard not going to keep themselves alive very long against even a taunted DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briqs Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 ITT: Moar DPS!ers mad that tanks are actually semi viable in pvp for once. But by all means, nerf them so that just like EVERY other MMO tanks are worthless for PvP simply because DPS!ers can't be arsed to l2p instead of just facerolling damage until people die as has been the industry standard for years. This. There's already about 43523452345 cooldowns in the game that involve doing more damage and about 3 that involve taking less damage. This game is a DPS monkey's wet dream and you want to make it worse. As a healer a tank guarding me is a prerequisite to even be able to enter a warzone. Most of it hinges on how stupidly easy it is to interrupt spells. Every class gets a spell interrupt and some are on as low as a 6 second cooldown. Which means with two people on me I'm not casting a spell, ever. That leaves me with a shield and a hot. If they did anything to make it worse for healers than it already is I'd probably just play a DPS like everyone else so we can all just run at each other and smoosh our buttons till the warzone is over like people seem to want it to be like. I'm already the only republic healer in 80% of the warzones I go in as it is so healers obviously aren't the all powerful being these skilless DPS try to portray them as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Might help if they tied the full potential of Guard to the tanking tree. Make the base Guard do something like 20%, and then somewhere in the tank tree it can be boosted back up to it's current state. That way you don't have dps specs running around with the full ability. The tank tree also has a lot of available points for shields (too much), which is not terribly useful for pvp. One of the boxes in the tree can be adjusted to Guard % instead. Probably not an optimal solution, but may help to alleviate some of the frequency of incredibly strong guarded players. You realize ppl can only use guard while in their tank stance right? If a class is in their tank stance, it's not going to be doing massive dps (tank assasins not included). Healers are easy enough to kill as long as you have a sent with their reduce healing ability. Edited March 17, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Jay Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Yes, you are attacking a non guarded target with 15-17K health pool. Attacking the guarded target is like going after one with a 31K-35K health pool. Damage is still being split, Two targets become one with an additional 5% damage reduction on the guarded target. (like I stated earlier, that reduction is 2% more reduced damage then going from Centurion gear to Battlemaster gear. In other words, a fair amount when it comes to what is currently available for constant 100% upkeep damage reductions) If you are using AoE on 2 targets, you are doing it wrong. If you can use AoE effectively, then you are on the Voidstar. In a 2V2 situation (Tank/Healer team), focusing the tank allows a healer to just stand still and easily keep a tank up and also include whatever the specific tank ability is to reduces all damage taken. Or you focus the Healer that essentially has over 2X their normal health pool who also have talents that increase healing to themselves. Splitting the damage just means that now both the tank and guarded healer have an additional 5% damage reduction that you are trying to burn through and all that for doing nothing more then being within 15 yards of each other. I would need some clarification on it, but is there a chance that the transferred damage is also mitigated by the specific tank skill and additional X%? With however you would like to approach the ability, the down to basic form of the ability is boring. A Low skill cap with a fairly high yield. There you go again, tunnel vision. You cover the options of either focusing the healer or the tank, yet you do not even consider the option of splitting your dps and attacking both at the same time. The 5% reduction is nothing compared to the damage output a healer and a tank with Ion Cell (guard stance) up, is reduced by. Get out of your solo player mindset and start thinking of how to combat setups, using teamwork, rather than just crying for nerfs. Edited March 17, 2012 by D-Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironleg Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Wait, you mean attack the tank, who is already taking 50% damage from the healer, on top of the direct damage he is receiving? No way! Shocking! http://www.pugtears.com Edited March 17, 2012 by Ironleg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreated Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 How about CC'ing the healer, and then killing the tank? A wee bit of coordination there and it works well. I should know, happens to me in PVP all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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