Kotor fans

[Airmo]

So making a general observation on the writing style and the over-all structure and arc of the story and claiming it similar to the Original trilogy is beyond believability for you? well clearly I don't see things in a similar fashion.

 

As I've said before, Kotor was made to be like the OT, that was the point. Kotor 2 was made to be different, the lead writer for Kotor 2 has stated Kreia was basically his way of saying what he didn't like about the Star Wars Universe. TSL was basically a deconstruction of star wars, a dark one that didn't really feel (at least in my opinion) very Star warsy, because it was made that way.

 

Darker and edgier doesn't make it better.

 

So for me. Kotor I > Kotor II

[Rayla_Felana]

As I've said before, Kotor was made to be like the OT, that was the point. Kotor 2 was made to be different, the lead writer for Kotor 2 has stated Kreia was basically his way of saying what he didn't like about the Star Wars Universe. TSL was basically a deconstruction of star wars, a dark one that didn't really feel (at least in my opinion) very Star warsy, because it was made that way.

 

Darker and edgier doesn't make it better.

 

So for me. Kotor I > Kotor II

 

I completely disagree, I have already watched the Star Wars saga, why would I want to play it set 4,000 years earlier? it wasn't nearly as good story-wise as people make it out to be, given the fact they literally took the structure of the OT and then painted on there own story.

 

KotOR II blows KotOR out of the water, KotOR II set the entire stage for that time, and didn't let it turn out to be just another 'meh' EU era.

 

KotOR II wasn't just 'darker and edgier' it was a serious and realistic look at Star Wars as a whole, what it provided you with was this: we will show you the Star Wars universe and why it's inhabitants are flawed, now we will give you the decision to do what you think is best for the Star Wars Universe and change everything.

 

That was why KotOR II was far better than it's predecessor where story is concerned, you don't get more Star Wars than it simply for the fact it showed you there and then exactly what Star Wars was, instead of just inserting you into it and following the same paradigms that have been done to death over and over.

 

Include the fact that you could actually influence everything around you, change whatever you wanted about the time and it's people, it was fantastically well done.

 

Even in it's unfinished release state, it far out-reached and out-did the first game.

 

If Obsidian hadn't been rushed, as always happens, it would have been one of the greatest RPGs ever remembered, that is quite clear just from the cut content alone.

[Castiel]

*Yawn* Everything is relative.

[Spartanik]

As I've said before, Kotor was made to be like the OT, that was the point. Kotor 2 was made to be different, the lead writer for Kotor 2 has stated Kreia was basically his way of saying what he didn't like about the Star Wars Universe. TSL was basically a deconstruction of star wars, a dark one that didn't really feel (at least in my opinion) very Star warsy, because it was made that way.

 

Darker and edgier doesn't make it better.

 

So for me. Kotor I > Kotor II

 

I pretty much agree with this. That is my feelings on the matter as well.

as much i liked and apreciate KOTOR 2 story, it doesnt feel star wars at all.

And the overall theme allthough interesting it might not fit star wars setting of adventure, the plot doesnt need to be mind blowing, star wars was all about adventure, hell it was inspired in adventure books, pretty much like indiana jones.

That is what star wars is all about. star wars its not sci fi it never was, and it was never super hero type stories, that indeed kotor 2 and much of EU made it to be.

Kotor 2 you have a sith lord that is imortal other that eats life from planets, wounds in the force i mean, star wars was never about that not realy, at least originaly.

 

Not to mention KOTOR 1 has a more defined well constructed story then kotor 2.

technicaly KOTOR 2 is a story that is incomplete, or not so well constructed for a star wars setting.

Sometimes works in stories or plots other times dont. I think it worked, but it could have been better.

I like both games, but Kotor 1 is the better game with better main story imo. Kotor 2 has very interesting characters, granted an interesting setting and interesting plot, but thats it is just interesting, i realy didnt find mind blowing at all, plot wise.

And now that im thinking every thing that happen in KOtOr 2 is so out there , out of star wars setting, that is probably the main reason why it hadnt a diserved folow up lore wise.

[Tsukae]

Big Kotor fan. My favorite is Kotor 2 as I think it has the far superior story. Sad it wasn't properly finished though. BW writing is way overrated.

[Fyurii]

Love both.

Both have their pros and cons over eachother in my eyes.

 

KoTOR was cuttings of the OT pasted together to make a story, but still enjoyable.

Didn't like that my character, my avatar, wasn't mine at all. He was Revan, and I didn't make Revan. Who I made was a false personality implanted by the Jedi Council. He didn't exist.

 

KoTORII was more like ESB with a darker and more "desperate" tone for the state of the galaxy and the Jedi Order.

Whilst The Exile wasn't a "fresh" character, she never turned out to be someone else. I took her from her beginning near helpless state, and rebuilt her into a Jedi once again.

She was closer to being "mine" than Revan was by the end of KoTOR.

Actual crafting and more weapon mods than in KoTOR, along with more varied animations for powers and abilities, and the Prestige Classes gave greater options for mix & match or "pure" class types.

 

Unfortunately, because Obsidian were forced to release KoTORII too early, it was unfinished.

We only meet four (but see five) of the previous companions from KoTOR, with the missing ones never spoken of, or assumed dead.

As a game, it's a let down in that regard. Even with the two patches that were released. Whilst they solved the worst of the game breaking bugs, they were still many things that weren't sorted.

KoTOR wasn't bug free, but it was complete for all intents and purposes.

 

KoTORII has the better story, characters (the new ones, even though I can't stand G0-T0) and character development, and surpasses its predecessor in many aspects where KoTOR needed improvement.

At the same time though, it's not complete without third-party addons and mods that restore cut content, especially concerning HK-47 and the HK-50 droids.

 

Taking into account all its flaws, I honestly say that KoTORII matches KoTOR overall.

If Obsidian hadn't been so rushed, or allowed to continue the patching and restoring content that they asked to do, it would have turned out superior to KoTOR in every way.

[Airmo]

I completely disagree, I have already watched the Star Wars saga, why would I want to play it set 4,000 years earlier? it wasn't nearly as good story-wise as people make it out to be, given the fact they literally took the structure of the OT and then painted on there own story.

 

Again, my point. It was made that way.

 

KotOR II blows KotOR out of the water, KotOR II set the entire stage for that time, and didn't let it turn out to be just another 'meh' EU era.

 

No. Kotor II took from the first Kotor. All the events that happened were a result of the Mandalorian Wars and Revan.

 

KotOR II wasn't just 'darker and edgier' it was a serious and realistic look at Star Wars as a whole, what it provided you with was this: we will show you the Star Wars universe and why it's inhabitants are flawed, now we will give you the decision to do what you think is best for the Star Wars Universe and change everything.

 

Won't argue with that. But the whole game was "Why that Star Wars Univerese is flawed" anyone can point out the flaws of SW. A lot of people have been for years.

 

That was why KotOR II was far better than it's predecessor where story is concerned, you don't get more Star Wars than it simply for the fact it showed you there and then exactly what Star Wars was, instead of just inserting you into it and following the same paradigms that have been done to death over and over.

 

Your opinion

 

Include the fact that you could actually influence everything around you, change whatever you wanted about the time and it's people, it was fantastically well done.

 

Even in it's unfinished release state, it far out-reached and out-did the first game.

 

If Obsidian hadn't been rushed, as always happens, it would have been one of the greatest RPGs ever remembered, that is quite clear just from the cut content alone

 

Exaggeration. Your opinion though, so. /shrug

 

Loved the first more then the second. =/

Edited April 12, 2012 by Airmo

[swcfrost]

both kotor games were my favorite xbox games ever!!

 

Same with me but for PC.

[Kantheras]

Apparently you clearly ignored the massive conversation with Darth Traya at the end.

 

 

 

Again you clearly didn't pay attention, and how is it NOT mature writing? you aren't some big hero, everybody loves, you are just a war vet, unlike KotOR.

 

There is no big happy ending, simply because her journey, which was becoming a Jedi again, was over, her duty to restore the Order, was the new journey, this would have been continued in KotOR 3, but LucasArts disallowed it, so yes there was an ending, Kreia tells you VERY clearly what is going to happen because of what you have done, you don't need to see it, you are TOLD it.

 

 

 

So I take it The Lord of the Rings is a child's tale? and it's very immature, simply because it is set in a fictional world? no, The Hobbit is a child's tale yet it is only immature because it was written for children.

 

That's the difference between KotOR and TSL, KotOR is, go from nobody, to big hero (Revan), in five seconds, defeat the evil guy(Malak) and save the world(Galaxy) Get the wench(Bastila), everyone lives happily ever after.

 

KotOR II: TSL, You find out the Republic you spent years and many sacrifices defending, is about to collapse, the Jedi Order you once served is all but non-existent, your old best friend turned to the Dark Side, almost wiped out all of your friends, and then disappeared after killing Malak, seemingly un-killable Sith Lords are wiping out all life, and all the support you have is an forgiving old woman, an idiot pilot and the weirdest group of people you can imagine, and oh, that isn't the best part, when you go and ask the Jedi that FYI hate you, what happened all those years ago, they tell you you are one of the worst things to happen to the galaxy and you need to basically die or you'll kill everybody you know.

 

Even through all that, you persevere, you remain loyal to the old fight, even though this is a different enemy and the war already seems lost, you still continue to fight, you rebuild the Order that banished you, you prove everybody wrong and you put the galaxy back to the way it should be, you, the Exile, become the greatest Jedi the order has seen in a long time and no one even knows about it, best part is history never remembers you, for anything but your Exile.

 

If those are not completely different stories, well then you clearly can blur anything into a perception you prefer.

 

 

 

Again, Fantasy=/=Immature.

 

By your logic, Warhammer 40,000 should be taught in nurseries.

Just going to say that you are very bias towards KotoR2 even though they are so close in how the story ends. You defeat the big bad, but in KotoR more people celebrate because the republic was way more wide spread and not in shambles at least from what i remember i could be wrong tho.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Kantheras

[Rayla_Felana]

Exaggeration. Your opinion though, so. /shrug

 

Loved the first more then the second. =/

 

Actually to clear a point, KotOR made no definition of the Mandalorian Wars OR Revan, or basically anything that had happened, KotOR II was responsible for ALL of that, including almost everything we really know about Revan.

 

Personally I don't think KotOR is nearly as good as KotOR II.

[Rayla_Felana]

Just going to say that you are very bias towards KotoR2 even though they are so close in how the story ends. You defeat the big bad, but in KotoR more people celebrate because the republic was way more wide spread and not in shambles at least from what i remember i could be wrong tho.

 

Welcome to an opinion based debate.

[DaWaffle]

KoTOR 1 is wonderful.

 

KoTOR 2? I can't go five feet without running into something I disagree with and not be given an option to disagree with it.

[Rayla_Felana]

KoTOR 2? I can't go five feet without running into something I disagree with and not be given an option to disagree with it.

 

Like?

[Airmo]

Actually to clear a point, KotOR made no definition of the Mandalorian Wars OR Revan, or basically anything that had happened, KotOR II was responsible for ALL of that, including almost everything we really know about Revan.

 

Personally I don't think KotOR is nearly as good as KotOR II.

 

It didn't really have to give a clear definition of the Mandalorian wars because, even though it was important to the story, what actually happened in the wars didn't need to be explained other then; The war was bad, Revan and Malak stopped it and then turned evil. On that point what exactly did Kotor II add to the Mando wars? other then a few battles that the Exile was apart of and how it ended. There could be more info out there that I'm unaware of (still looking around to read up) but as far as what was in my past Kotor II playthroughs it wasn't much. Of course I could be forgetting things.

 

As far as Revan goes, most things that they added were mostly theories from other characters that were proven to be false anyways (One example quickly comes to mind of Kreia's theory that Revan fell on purpose to prevent a greater evil). So again what more did they add that we didn't already know from Kotor I? If they did add things, it wasn't much. Just some characters views of him.

 

And that's cool, I loved Kotor II as well I just prefer the original is all.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Airmo

[JohraTon]

Meh, I liked both. As a game, KOTOR 2 was probably better, but a few years to improve and refine things will do that.

 

Chosing between them personally is hard. While I liked the good old no-namer to hero story of the first, I also liked the darker more cynical view of the factions, almost from a neutral perspective. In my experience of SW games its pretty unique for just that.

 

My main problem was the botched ending. I remember defeating Kreia and getting that long drawn out chat scene. After the final FMV i kinda expected something to happen yet the credits rolled leaving me thinking, is that it?

 

Given a bit more time to properly construct a more in depth ending and that game would have been epic.

 

So in short, I loved both for different reasons

[Kantheras]

Welcome to an opinion based debate.

 

no im saying that you are blinded by what you think is the WAY better storyline/ending that in the end is really just the same. You kept telling people that they were wrong untill someone said its all your opinion.

[Ellyria]

I love the KotOR games. Have them on both PC and XBox, but I vastly prefer them on PC, less problems, more mods.

 

KotOR II is my favorite, I really enjoy the story and the characters, it's just a shame that Obsidian was rushed to finish it and then weren't even allowed to make a patch to properly finish the game afterwards. The Restored Content Mod helps out a lot though. It's too bad that there were no romances, I always enjoy them.

 

Of course, this doesn't diminish my love for KotOR at all, I do enjoy playing it. However, if I were given a choice between which one to play, I'd go with KotOR II. The gameplay is improved, I enjoy more of the characters (only really liked Canderous, Carth and HK-47 in KotOR), and the story is engaging.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ellyria

[Terazus]

Both kotors are probably the games I finished the most times and the most quickly.

Been playing them with all the characters.

I'm a fan a real star opera (asimov-like) but never been a fan of SW (i won't open that debate).

Thusly, and though I dislike a lot of things in the original star wars dual trilogies, KOTOR made me enjoy the global universe of SW with its planets, its stories and its races.

Favorit char was HK-47 which we encounter in a FP. Was like a child with an awaited toy when i encountered him.

 

Both KOTOR = best star opera RPGs.