Infiltration seems too weak to me PvE

[Skolops]

Have read through a number of threads on the general subject, but haven't found many comments on a specific question I have.

 

I'm leveling a shadow right now - currently about 33 or 34. Initially was focusing on Balance, but I wanted to try more melee combat, so I did some reading and did a respec to Infiltration.

 

I liked it at first, but as time has gone on I'm finding that I just die far too easily in PvE. I use a healer companion and keep my gear up to snuff, but the character just seems to lose HP very quickly. On the flip side, despite doing the reading and trying to use a solid priority list, the DPS just doesn't take things down quickly enough to make up for the lack of beefy armor or self-healing. I am able to win most fights of course, but end up having to use Meditation after almost every encounter - whether against a mob or a single elite. Occasionally, I do lose to elites - a lot more than I really have while leveling either this character with Balance or other classes.

 

The lack of any decent AoE is also a contributing factor where larger mobs are concerned. The only AoE the Infiltration tree really has is the basic whirling attack, and it's DPS is pretty pathetic ultimately, even when spamming with respite.

 

Essentially, I'm wondering what others' thoughts are on what I've said here.

[MiaRB]

you dont want AOEs. you want to use your stealth and mind maze alot. AOEs would just wake the mob up, is even a good idea to turn off some of your companions AOE atttacks.

 

you should be able to solo alot of content that other classes cant solo, like many of the heroic quests( even some 4 man ones ). also, need to make us eof all of your skills. meaning, in tuff areas, you dont just maze one and sit and blast mobs down one at a time. move around, switch targets to low strike that second mob that is attacking you then go back to killing the other. use slow, and move around if you need to. also, dont forget to use your def bubble and 3 seconds of force/tech imune skills as well as unity and heroic moments for certain fights.

 

oh and also, one skill that many seem to overlook and underuse in solo PVE, is your interupt skill. use it ALOT. many fights that seem hard turn out to be pretty easy if you use your interupt skill at the right time.

[Severicetylaun]

Infiltration DPS bursts are mostly centered around buffs. but there is a way to insure your survive most fights. Use a tank companion, shadow strike is a infiltration shadows best friend also. If you can get your first companion up to par with you have him take the agro and get in behind the mobs you'll do just fine. Even if Quzen(sp) falls it will help eat away at the the elite boss's health enough that you can continue, keep plenty of med kits handy for that situation. But i can give you a spec that i use for pve and pvp. I'm level 46 and it's served me well, as well as Kinetic specs.

 

DPS Infiltarion spec: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_consular/shadow/#::f2e7fe3fe5f8df15ef5ef2ef:

 

Kinetic Spec: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_consular/shadow/#::f20e2fefe6de7f4ef5ef2ef5:

 

The tank spec is great for soloing if you have you healing companion, that will leave you with a few points to spend as you wish but there you go. read the skill discriptions so you know what to use for the proc's if you haven't already. Force breach, project and Clairvoyant strike will be your best damage dealers along side shadow strike. Infiltration is the tree the shadow was made for, Critical chance gear and surge ratings are the other main stats your going to want with will power at least that's what's worked for me. Play styles may very but those are some good builds none the less.

[Caceyn]

I keep hearing that Shadow is weak in PVE questing...I don't buy it.

 

I leveled from 1-50 as Inf (2/31/8) I had to keep the douche canoe with me the whole time, but so what. I had no problems at all with any quest, save Attis Station (enjoy that one!!). No, I never came out of any group fight or elite fight with 100% health, most times I was around 30-45% health. While that my bother you, I don't know what to tell you other than that's the life of the Inf.

[Severicetylaun]

I agree, Shadow's are great for Pve and really shine in pvp if you gear up right. I managed to do some quests 3 level's above me when i was infiltartion spec'd. While my companion took the brunt of everything i was behind building up procs and what not then unleashing to damage. The high burst damage is great and it's fun to play, made the combat more intense rather then the usual tank and spank you'd see from a Kinetic shadows. The tank spec i offered up was just encase she decides infiltration isn't into her play style. DPS isen't everyone's forte.

[RockysRevenge]

Kinetic also has more melee than you'd expect...lots of double striking and executing. But yes, infil builds do have significantly less survivability than many others.

[sithhunter_]

If you don tt utilize all of your abilities infiltrator can be a difficult PvE spec toon, i found that for some of the elite/boss fights to, even though shadow technique is your base for infiltration, switch to combat technique and pull out Tharan... it increases your armor rating and you have 50% chance ot regain.. well at lvl 50 its about 500 hp. Interupts are essential in fights with enemies that have high HP. A lot of people dont put points into the decreased mind snap cooldown but i did and its only 2 seconds but it helps a lot. move around a lot use stuns to get behind and use shadow strike.. you can put out a good deal of damage very quickly i love my infiltration shadow, he isnt meant to take damage though which is where people seem to have the problem, get with a tank and role... fully geared shadow is possibly the best dps in the republic

[Shardie]

Its not that Infiltration is bad at leveling, its just Kinetic is far, far superior at the job.

[dronepilot]

No its NOT. Keep at it, Infiltration will get better the higher you get. I was levelling pretty well with mine. I admit though, at the levels in the 30's the Infiltration spec, might not deliver the kind of damage you want to make. I think as a shadow I was playing all on balance when I was in my level 30's. I switched to 33/8 later.

 

It can be viable, but if you can't cope with it, then re spec, and put everything on balance. It will work a treat in PVE. (You don't need to tank - you got Quzen for that, and you don't need to tank, because you can use Tharan for heals.)

Edited March 21, 2012 by dronepilot

[Zintair]

The key is to Mind Maze the Elites/Hardest mobs for last. Always kill the weakest mobs first and stun/CC the harder ones until your ready to fight them. Also a tank companion is preferable over Theran because of Shadow Strike.

[Lifewaster]

Have read through a number of threads on the general subject, but haven't found many comments on a specific question I have.

 

I'm leveling a shadow right now - currently about 33 or 34. Initially was focusing on Balance, but I wanted to try more melee combat, so I did some reading and did a respec to Infiltration.

 

I liked it at first, but as time has gone on I'm finding that I just die far too easily in PvE.

 

You could try a hybrid kinetic/infiltration for pve levelling, with just 13 points in infiltration for Shadow technique and Circling shadows. The rest in kinetic for defense and force regen.

 

Fighting in shadow technique, you should still have about 20% armor and 20% deflect provided you use +defense mods.

Your Circling shadows gives you a cheap Project every 2 double strikes, which you can use to stun normal mobs which lets you to get off your shadow strikes whenever find weakness procs.

 

This gives you fairly good dmg while still having good defense. And you can turn on kinetic ward to boost yourself from 5% to 20% shield if fights get a bit tough.

 

You can also change to combat stance if needed for very tough fights.

[Harden]

I have a Level 50 Jedi Shadow and i seem to do fine with the Kinetic tree / Balance mixture.

Here is the skill set i have for my Shadow, mind you i have almost all Champion gear but 2-3 items.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rfrokrokrsZZfbc.1

[djluxi]

The key is to Mind Maze the Elites/Hardest mobs for last. Always kill the weakest mobs first and stun/CC the harder ones until your ready to fight them. Also a tank companion is preferable over Theran because of Shadow Strike.

 

This....

 

I found this to be single most important thing when soloing as inf... take a look around, take a look at mobs... who will die easiest, who will die last... cc the strong/elite ones and keep em for last... the worst thing, and i see it all the time is to go for the strongest mob first. But ultimatly if u find u r struggling too much with a spec just change it.

[RALLYxISH]

I have a level 46 Sentinel (Combat build) and decided to build a Infil Shadow, I'm currently level 21 and don't really understand how some people say that leveling and an infil shadow build in general is weak. I find myself easily taking care of elites/mobs. Even some Champions aren't as challenging as I feel they should be.

 

I use combat technique and use guard on Qyzen, survivability is not an issue for me. Ran some Heroics solo on Taris without a problem. My companion dies before me when facing Champions (obviously) but I still have over 80% hp left.

 

Only thing is moves/rotation for Infil Shadow are bit predictable on PvP, even then, haven't had much problem with that either, use guard on a healer, stay close to healer and do damage, its quite fun actually. Can't wait to get to 50 then I'll have a better feel for infil and if I find it necessary will respec to Kinetic then compare the two myself.

[KiranK]

The real problem with the Infil Shadow is his extraordinary squishiness. There isn't really a saving grace to dying to anything that looks at you. Force cloak simply resets your solo encounters, and thus does not really qualify as a defensive CD in that case, and deflection is only good vs. weapon damage. Unity requires a companion, thus is useless in a group setting. PvE has plenty of tech and force damage, which will put you 6 feet under in a heart beat. Qyzen is also a really crappy tank. Thank the gods when you finally get Iresso and transfer all of Qyzen's gear to him.

[SAMIELL]

Infiltration is not for the player that wants to rofl stomp through mobs. This class spec is ALWAYS about planning the next step. MM before pulling, use low slash, spinning kick...ffs look through your abilities and use them. To come out of combat from 3 mobs and be less than half health is doing something wrong.

Each fight you enter should be planned before you start. That is the spec of infiltration.

[Aaramis]

Infiltration is not for the player that wants to rofl stomp through mobs. This class spec is ALWAYS about planning the next step. MM before pulling, use low slash, spinning kick...ffs look through your abilities and use them. To come out of combat from 3 mobs and be less than half health is doing something wrong.

Each fight you enter should be planned before you start. That is the spec of infiltration.

 

This, exactly. I played Balance the same way.

 

See a group of 3 mobs? Stealth + mez the strongest, then Lift one of the remaining 2 (or low slash if Infiltration). This gives you several seconds to burn down the solo mob, which should be easily doable as Infil.

 

Lift / low slash ends, and you burn down that mob. Let Theran heal you up to full, if needed at all, before you tackle the hard hitter (hint: use your Force Potency + Adrenals on this mob to burn down faster - see the various "bursting" threads for tips).

 

PvE is incredibly easy as a Shadow (any spec) if used properly. There were numerous missions when I was levelling up where I would stealth all the way to the boss mob, burn it down, then quick travel out.

[jebelious]

Just stubled across this subject, i have just started to play SWTOR my first MMO for 4 or so years and i opted to play a Shadow (normally played caster DPS). I must say that as i was never a hardcore MMO player always played casually i am having to learn a new style of play for a DPS and am slowly getting there.

 

Using sa (Mind maze) is something that i have come to find is really handy and with all the other CC abilities i have at 23 it is certainly becomming more difficult to remember where i have mapped all my skills.

 

I think finding the perfect key bindings is going to be key moving forward and learning what abilities should be used and when. I am thinking a naga hex mouse is going to be required for me soon

 

All suggestions so far seem to be what i have followed, i am finding the tank mob to be very handy at the moment although i do not have the healer one yet..

[ninjashadowdark]

The real problem with the Infil Shadow is his extraordinary squishiness. There isn't really a saving grace to dying to anything that looks at you. Force cloak simply resets your solo encounters, and thus does not really qualify as a defensive CD in that case, and deflection is only good vs. weapon damage. Unity requires a companion, thus is useless in a group setting. PvE has plenty of tech and force damage, which will put you 6 feet under in a heart beat. Qyzen is also a really crappy tank. Thank the gods when you finally get Iresso and transfer all of Qyzen's gear to him.

 

let me guess you did not gear him up well enough to prove he crappy tank ...I geared mine all crafted purples does just fine thank you

[GlennWippenberg]

Have read through a number of threads on the general subject, but haven't found many comments on a specific question I have.

 

I'm leveling a shadow right now - currently about 33 or 34. Initially was focusing on Balance, but I wanted to try more melee combat, so I did some reading and did a respec to Infiltration.

 

I liked it at first, but as time has gone on I'm finding that I just die far too easily in PvE. I use a healer companion and keep my gear up to snuff, but the character just seems to lose HP very quickly. On the flip side, despite doing the reading and trying to use a solid priority list, the DPS just doesn't take things down quickly enough to make up for the lack of beefy armor or self-healing. I am able to win most fights of course, but end up having to use Meditation after almost every encounter - whether against a mob or a single elite. Occasionally, I do lose to elites - a lot more than I really have while leveling either this character with Balance or other classes.

 

The lack of any decent AoE is also a contributing factor where larger mobs are concerned. The only AoE the Infiltration tree really has is the basic whirling attack, and it's DPS is pretty pathetic ultimately, even when spamming with respite.

 

Essentially, I'm wondering what others' thoughts are on what I've said here.

 

How long have you been playing as Infiltration?

 

I tried Infiltration in the mid 30s and finished out my leveling with it. I don't have a magical answer for your issues. All I can say is you need to be spot on with procs and utilize your CC. The lack of AoE will make it easier for you to keep targets controlled and still maintain full damage output. Mind Maze, Force Stun, and Low Slash (when you get it) will make dealing with mobs very easy. You also NEED to be on top of interrupts, especially mob alpha strikes-you aren't built to tank.

 

Shadows are pretty durable in PVE when you utilize your defensive cooldowns. If Tharan doesn't have any quality gear, start looking into equpping him better. His heals will keep you alive through Gold Star enemies no problem. Also, keybind! I find it infinitely more difficult to play melee when you click anything.

[Joshrus]

Infiltration has not been bad for me yet.

 

Lvl 37 pure infil from the start.

 

It is getting easier as I get higher, I'm thinking once I get clarivoyent it will be a breeze.

 

Biggest things I do is use mind maze of the elite groups and throw rocks at adds I'm not attacking.

 

If I ever pull adds I just force cloak.

 

 

If I fight a yellow I'll try shadow technique. If I can't interrupt enough or it hits to hard ill force cloak and go combat technique.

 

However look at kinetic and I can see why they would have it easier in pve( damage reduction and heals), I just enjoy pvp burst and control infiltrater offers vs the heals and tanky dps kienetic has.