Tactics PVP Build vs. Taugrim's IF Build

[KoshrBacon]

I have been running Iron Fist for the longest time and although I think its one of the best PVP specs out there, I like to just mix it up and try new things so I went with this spec:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hZMsrrRrbzdsZbcb.1

 

Compared to IF build:

 

Pros:

1.) Ammo is 100% not a problem. Between Cell Generator and PCS, I die before I can use up half my ammo almost 100% of the time. This means I am basically spamming the hell out of Fire pulse, Stock Strike and Ion pulse. Hammer shot is all but forgotten accept for the situation where I need to shoot at something beyond 10m (e.g. door/node capping). IF and Assault based specs both resulted in severe ammo issues the longer the fight went on, IF more so than Assault due to the HIB procs.

 

2.) Mobility is a plus: Hold the line continues to provide decent mobility for closing gaps and running in the ball during hutball. I laugh when I see sages/sorcers try to knock me back . The run speed increase from battlefield training is only really noticeable during combat when chasing someone down. To be honest, I haven't really been wowed by this ability, anyone else not noticing a difference?

 

3.) The DPS from this build is surprisingly good. When compared to IF; the AOE is slightly better due to pulse generator and the single target dps is phenomenal. Pulse Cannon +5 stacks of Pulse Generator = My highest crit with PC so far was ~2.7k on someone in a clump of mobs. Fire Pulse and stock strike crits for ~2.8-3.3k and Ion Pulse is ~1.7k-2.2k. I am typically in top 1-3 DPS for each round which isn't really that far off from the DPS geared IF build accept for the guaranteed 2.5k medal in this build (almost 5k, I have had a few 4.Xk crits with Fire pulse after popping all my CD's).

 

4.) Self heal combo of using Kolto Recharge and Adrenaline Rush is surprisingly good. It is very noticeable during a long fight when I hit them both at the same time.

 

5.) A minor pro but maybe someone else is in the same boat: Running PVE content as IF with guild or friends who already have a tank and better tanking spec sometimes forces me to respec often. With this build, I am golden in terms of running as DPS.

 

Cons:

 

1.) Loss of gap closer without storm , this really is amazing in Hutball and chasing down fleeing enemies.

2.) Loss of of survivability, I use to be able to take on 2 people at a time with IF and kill 1.5 of them before dying, in this build I can typically only get the one.

3.) Loss of Guard, only a loss when running with guild healers. It is amazing how effective it is to be tanking w/ a guarded healer... you both survive an eternity of being beat on.

4.) No real ranged DPS accept for sticky grenade and hammer shot (same can be said for IF but storm makes up for this 10-fold).

 

Side notes:

 

I continue to get 8-12 medals a round from objectives, damage and protection. If you play a vanguard and don't get 2-3 medals for protection from taunting, you are doing something wrong.

 

PVP Gear for the build is Combat Tech for the obvious increased crit change to stock strike. I am still on the ropes about using a generator or a shield for off-hand. I am currently using a shield since I switch between IF and this build often.

 

Gut = poo in terms of DPS. Its only use is to get a dot for HIB which again is not really a major source of DPS for this build. Sometimes its nice to re-apply the Dot when you know you are going to die and your enemy is running low. You can either kill em after your dead or at least prevent them from resting for 15 seconds.

 

 

Please reply with comments/questions/concerns/jokes/anecdotes/etc...

[Coramac]

Personally, I like this Tactics spec better.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMMRrfkdsZb.1

 

It's going to give you a solid damage increase at the expense of some very trivial utility. I found Paralletic Stims to be very underwhelming.

 

I've run Tactics a few times, and I honestly don't know why people knock it so much. The ammo regeneration is insane and having an Ion Pulse that crits for more than 2k is pretty amazing. It's got very strong target swapping due the the lack of dependence on HIB. Another thing I don't understand coming from a lot of posters, the ability to target swap effectively is a tremendous advantage.

[Hizoka]

Personally, I like this Tactics spec better.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMMRrfkdsZb.1

 

It's going to give you a solid damage increase at the expense of some very trivial utility. I found Paralletic Stims to be very underwhelming.

 

I've run Tactics a few times, and I honestly don't know why people knock it so much. The ammo regeneration is insane and having an Ion Pulse that crits for more than 2k is pretty amazing. It's got very strong target swapping due the the lack of dependence on HIB. Another thing I don't understand coming from a lot of posters, the ability to target swap effectively is a tremendous advantage.

 

i'm gonna run almost the same thing. instead of the reduced damage when stunned i take the faster interrupt. its fun to bug the piss out of healers ... and in this game regardless if you take less damage or not resolve is suck a piece of trash you will die in a stun anyways when people are on you.

 

i thinkt he reason people knock it is its not a simple to play as assult, but at the same time assuly does have better burst which is god in PvP but if you don't kill someone in the burst then its pointless. Remember most people look for easy. They rather be able to burst someoen down with no skill needed then be "tacticle" and be a better help to their team.

 

 

i do think "gut" could use a bit of a damage boost, but it seem like its purpose is to have a dot for HIB. However the run speed in combat is very under rated. Its one of thoes thing you cannot really caculate, you are faster in combat them most everoyne else so baring a snare you have no problem staying on top of someone, in PvE, melee has to move around the faster you get out and back in is a DPS increase and not having a gap close like a leap make that a very good DPS jump.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Hizoka

[KoshrBacon]

I could see how your build would be slightly better in DPS on paper, however

1.) I find that the 6 second interrupt is worth its wait in gold, anyone who is on a healer or tracer missile spammer knows this to be true.

2.) With PCS, you never run out of ammo for the most part, so although your build has a higher aim and HIB damage, you will not be able to spam IP as much in between FP/SS. More IP spams = more stacks of Pulse generate which to me has better synergy for the build.

3.) 3 points in serrated blades is painful. The ability basically adds less than 100 extra damage to a 15 second dot? The only reason you are adding them is to get combat tactics, which I have found to be pretty lackluster in this build. HIB is not our go-to DPS ability, I typically only use it if I am >10meters away and its available.

 

To the 2nd posters point, it sounds like you notice a difference in run speed which is cool. I find it not very noticeable and therefore blowing my Hold-The-Line early just to close the gap leaving me stranded sometimes when I need it most. Your point in PVE content is definitely valid.

[Coramac]

I could see how your build would be slightly better in DPS on paper, however

1.) I find that the 6 second interrupt is worth its wait in gold, anyone who is on a healer or tracer missile spammer knows this to be true.

 

The cooldown is much better against Tracer spam than healing. You aren't going to interupt the second major heal without delaying the cast with one of our hard CCs at which point the 2 second reduction is irrelevant as both 8 second and 6 second interupts will work. It's a 4 second ability lock out. They will still heal with other abilities. It is very nice ability to have for Tracer spam, but I wouldn't put two points into something so niche.

 

2.) With PCS, you never run out of ammo for the most part, so although your build has a higher aim and HIB damage, you will not be able to spam IP as much in between FP/SS. More IP spams = more stacks of Pulse generate which to me has better synergy for the build.

 

You do have or should have some downtime between Pulse Cannons. It's not always effective to use it, and it really is poor to prioritze it so highly. Your burst is still going to be lower than Assault and you are lowering your sustained damage by a fair amount trying to maximize Pulse Cannons. Not prioritizing Stock Strike in a Tactics build is really going to hurt you.

 

3.) 3 points in serrated blades is painful. The ability basically adds less than 100 extra damage to a 15 second dot? The only reason you are adding them is to get combat tactics, which I have found to be pretty lackluster in this build. HIB is not our go-to DPS ability, I typically only use it if I am >10meters away and its available.

 

HIB still hits very hard in a Tactics build and is a great addition to have for burst damage. I'll grant you that that those are a painful 3 points, but you are taking some pretty marginal talents to replace it. Decreased cooldowns only work when you are on cooldown. It provides a very small increase in availability of those abilities and the window is even smaller for the number of additional times you will have them up when you need them.

[grandmasterub]

IMO use this spec.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZMsMrorfkdsZb.1

 

Allows for the use of ioncell if paired with a healer or if greater survivability is needed. For PvE you've only wasted 3 points in what would be aim. This is a slight dps loss but outside hardcore ops guilds it won't matter.

[Blurps]

Tbh I barely notice the 30% runspeed increase on HtL, in it's current form Battlefield Training seems completely worthless to me.

 

Agreed on the Gut/Serrated Blade issue, the return on investment is extremely poor and even with the lower cd on interrupt being useful against certain opponents only it's the far better choice imo. In today's terms: Frontline Defense + Power Armour >>> Serrated Blade + Combat Tactics

 

As for not having Guard, it's possible to run a 31 Tactics spec in Ion Cell and basically all you have to do is be somewhat more conservative with Ammo. In practice that is more of a challenge than it may sound though, as the ability to spam hard hitting Ion Pulses is probably the main source of damage of this build.

 

After running with a 31 Tactics build for a while for the explocit purpose of getting a better understanding of what it can do my general assessment has not changed much unfortunately. It's not a broken spec, you can certainly make it work if you play to its strengths and have some support. I'm not sure why you'd want to though. Sustained damage counts for little in PvP, burst will trump it every single time and Assault is just miles ahead in that respect. The utility and survivability gain past the second tier of Tactics is pretty poor as well and making full use of Pulse Generator as argueably the token damage talent of the tree poses just way too many issues, from the short time window on the buff to the server/sync problems causing you to not hit something directly in front of you frequently.

 

I don't think the tree needs a complete overhaul but without some adjustments deep Tactics will stay a niche spec and for good reason.

[Hizoka]

Tbh I barely notice the 30% runspeed increase on HtL, in it's current form Battlefield Training seems completely worthless to me.

 

Agreed on the Gut/Serrated Blade issue, the return on investment is extremely poor and even with the lower cd on interrupt being useful against certain opponents only it's the far better choice imo. In today's terms: Frontline Defense + Power Armour >>> Serrated Blade + Combat Tactics

 

As for not having Guard, it's possible to run a 31 Tactics spec in Ion Cell and basically all you have to do is be somewhat more conservative with Ammo. In practice that is more of a challenge than it may sound though, as the ability to spam hard hitting Ion Pulses is probably the main source of damage of this build.

 

After running with a 31 Tactics build for a while for the explocit purpose of getting a better understanding of what it can do my general assessment has not changed much unfortunately. It's not a broken spec, you can certainly make it work if you play to its strengths and have some support. I'm not sure why you'd want to though. Sustained damage counts for little in PvP, burst will trump it every single time and Assault is just miles ahead in that respect. The utility and survivability gain past the second tier of Tactics is pretty poor as well and making full use of Pulse Generator as argueably the token damage talent of the tree poses just way too many issues, from the short time window on the buff to the server/sync problems causing you to not hit something directly in front of you frequently.

 

I don't think the tree needs a complete overhaul but without some adjustments deep Tactics will stay a niche spec and for good reason.

not everything in this game is PvP... there aer 3 PvP warzones, there is more then 500 times the PvE content vs PvP. Yes burst is better in PvP but outside of PvP burst is trash.

 

Not everyone pays the stupid amount of credits to respec just to get their 3 wins in.

[Raggok]

OP's post seems to be focused on PvP.

[Blurps]

This game's PvE in it's current state is so trivial you'll do ok with everything but a completely broken spec as long as you're a somewhat competent player.

[TehMerc]

Tbh I barely notice the 30% runspeed increase on HtL, in it's current form Battlefield Training seems completely worthless to me.

 

 

HtL is priceless for kiting melee specs, especially when charge is off cooldown, instead of dealing with the root you keep moving at normal speed. And I definitely notice BfT when chasing down operative healers that love to heal on the run while going behind pillars.

 

You're right though, it's a pretty niche spec if you want to really do damage in most situations. It's unbelievable if left alone to use pulse cannon without interrupts, but it can be rough if you're getting focused. Though HtL really helps keep people busy running after you and off teammates. Still find it's staying power on healers a pretty good niche, if BfT isn't enough to catch up HtL will get me back on target to keep interrupting.

 

It may not be perfect but it's got staying power for long Voidstar fights and makes a great ball carrier once you use HtL around the second fire pit.