What's Good About PvP For You?

[Duatronic]

I'm doing research on pvp for a project of mine. I've heard DAOC pop up frequently as an example of pvp done right. Obviously there are other examples too and pros and cons to everything. For all of you that don't mind spending a few minutes telling me what you like and don't like about pvp in this game, DAOC, WoW, and others, I'd greatly appreciate your time.

 

Thanks!

[cycao]

I love open world PVP in this game...what i do not like is that there is none.

[VoidJustice]

Best Pvp ever...

 

Planetside...

 

From the day you first set foot on Auraxis you were well balanced, quickly in battle with 100's to 1000's of others and the battles were the size of Wow continents with several going on at once. There was mass orginization even for those PUGGING and there was combat in the air, in armor and on the ground.

 

On top of this a 1 day old could kill a vet of n years, yet everyone still was incented to level to allow for more playstyles.

 

So you didn't grind to become a better and better soldier... you earned soldie and then went on to earn pilot or tanker... but you couldn't be everything all at once.

 

I'll never forget my outfit holding one foothold base on a continent for several hours against combined Terran/NewCon blobs getting shelled and bombed into the base while constantly out numbered and being able to last stand hold against the hack untill help arived... Finally stepping out into the courtyard of a free Vanu base and finally taking the cont that day, was one of the most epic gaming days I've ever had.

 

Uber.. PS2 gonna be free so SWTOR and PS2 and Im all set!

Edited March 14, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Semitote]

I prefer Huttball because it feels more like an orgnized sport.

 

I don't play Risk so Civil War and Voidstar seem stupid to me.

 

Any PvP where you can "score a goal" (this includes CTF) feels a lot more glorious than just killing opponents repeatedly and defending/assaulting nodes.

 

Essentially, I want to win a game because I was able to move my character to the correct location while staying alive... I don't like games where I have to be at a spot for 8 seconds without being attacked in order to have a chance at winning the game.

 

Sports (with a ball that is passed around) > CTF > Domination (point defense) > Preventing people from getting to one certain spot on the map > Team Death Match > Death Match > Duels

[MPagano]

DAoC PVP:

 

Where to begin?

 

3 factions. I cannot stress this enough. 3 factions allow for a self-correcting mechanism with respect to faction imbalance. I can't tell you how many times Midgard was dominating the frontiers and the only way we chipped away at their keeps was by coordinating attacks with the 3rd faction to make it 2v1. When 1 faction gets too strong, the other 2 join up and take them out.

 

Rich, comprehensive character progression which was seperate from the leveling of your character. Realm ranks provided players the opportunity to further customize and progress their toons to the needs of their guild or friends or whomever the PvPd with frequently.

 

Open world RvR. No game can really use the term RvR except DAoC. A huge component for sustainable, engaging and competitive PvP is a sense of pride in your faction. This may sound silly talking about a game, but it's absolutely true for many players. Nothing in an MMO was as invigorating as watching your guild's tabard adorn the ramparts of a major keep in the world. Players came to know the terrain intimately, and which paths were commonly traveled by enemies. Those who knew the frontiers had the most success in defense and assault.

 

 

WoW PvP:

 

Blizzard constantly made updates to class balance. Some found this to be very annoying as it led to frequent swings in class counts and FOTM perceptions. Frankly, I've come to appreciate this design philosophy more than BWs adopted methods for balancing TOR. WoW would use a perturbative approach in that they would buff or nerf something if it seemed out of whack, and they would then evaluate it and either buff or nerf again. The constant adjustments towards the ideal balance (which is never really achieved) made it feel like the game was always evolving, and issues people may have had with a class would only stew for so long before the balance swung another direction.

 

Warzone design. Blizzard has some of the best warzone maps to date, in my opinion. As tired as we may be with the original WSG and AB, those maps were strategically exciting and designed in a way that encouraged cooperative play amongst groups. I think of the various avenues to approach or defend the flag in WSG, the disadvantage of holding the mine in AB and conversely the huge strategic advantage of being at lumber mill and having a clear view of the entire map.

 

Classes. The classes in wow were just fun to play. I've played a rogue, paladin and druid at the cap. I've played almost every spec for those classes (never cared for combat rogues or feral druids). The group mechanics and interactions just provided a very fun approach to pvp. Strategies against specific combos were needed in many cases, and it added to the feeling of accomplishment and challenge.

 

That brings me to arenas. A very contested subject, but arenas were ultimately a good move in my opinion. Many who didn't like them simply didn't enjoy the fact that it was a tiered ranking system where you had to play each week and perform well to move up the ladder. While there will be always issues with ranking systems in MMO due to inherent imbalances, that doesn't detract from the fun that was had in 3v3 matches (the most balanced) against the right class make ups. And this is coming from someone who never really did that well in them. Watching others play at the highest rank, I also noticed that all classes were represented fairly equally which suggests that some people were having success with the classes that others perceived as weak in arenas.

 

While I'm not a fan of gear progression in pvp, the honor system was straightforward and simple. BW should have taken this right out of wow and applied it to TOR.

 

TOR pvp: It's still very early to evaluate the game's pvp at a high level. I can speak to my personal experiences, though.

 

Class balance: the classes in this game are surprisingly balanced for group pvp settings. I would have to say it's the best at-launch balance I've experienced in the 7 MMOs I've played. For everyone that complains about being too weak or about someone being OP, I've met players who prove both perceptions wrong. If someone is doing well with the class then anyone can do well with it.

 

Huttball: as much as people rage on this, it's impossible to deny that it's a good innovation in the instanced PvP area of MMOs. Unfortunately, part of the negativity associated with this warzone is attributed to it's frequency of play (which is a direct result of having 1 same-faction WZ with fairly skewed population distrubtions).

Edited March 14, 2012 by MPagano

[Drunkwolf]

the only thing i like about this game is the fact i can just leave when its huttball and not be punished.

 

the best pvp i played was Asherons Call, it was skill based free for all pvp with no instances.

 

no CC for noobs who need a crutch in pvp. no stealth for noobs who think they are ninjas. just strait up pvp you win because your a better player not because some dude has better gear, or some gimic like CC and stealth that gives a player some advantage.

 

you could fight and beat multiple people at once, i have seen guys take on 5 other players at once and kill them all. its possible to beat guys 50 levels higher than you because its skill based not button mash gear based BS pvp like we have these days.

[ShizuXIII]

DAoC (pre ToA) was good for a few reasons:

 

- Three factions. This is huge. Games with two factions are bound to be imbalanced. With three factions, the weak can backstab the strong while they are busy with each other.

Two weaks can focus on the big dog. Three factions make for an unpredictable environment.

 

- Objectives and rewards. DAoC managed to give us the feeling to be fighting for the "greater good". The winning factions was rewarded with physical and magic damage bonus (depending on the relics owned). A good bonus, but not so strong to make the game unplayable for the losing factions.

PvP rewards consisted of realm abilities. Good abilities, but not completely gamebreaking. Of course, a full party of RR10s was stronger than a full party of RR5s. But the first ranks, to get the more important abilities, was quick.

 

- No instances, to timers. The frontiers was open 24/7, the keeps and the relics was vulnerable 24/7. It was a truly persistent world. No ******** like siege timers on Aion.

 

- Darkness Falls. Huge pvpve dungeon, open for the faction owning more frontier keeps. A dungeon worth fighting over in the frontiers, wich was an awesome RvR zone itself.

 

- PvP was not a dull quest to get some arbitrary carrot. There was character progression, but the main goal was pvp itself. Everything between capturing a relic with 250 people and winning an 8v8 or an 1v1.

 

- Guilds actually had a meaning, beside sharing the same tag under the name. Keeps had to be claimed, upgraded and repaired by active guilds. Cooperation between guilds was an important factor to succeed as a realm.

 

- Class balance. Three realms with completely different classes. Obviously there was some FOtM stages, but the class balance was pretty good. Here they can't even make proper mirror classes.

 

 

The bad part about fully open pvp is the imbalanced numbers you are forced to face sometimes, finding yourself 8v20, 2v6, 250v100.

But for me, it's what makes o-pvp interesting. Communication, awareness and knowledge of the frontiers was the key to succeed and avoid unwinnable fights.

Also, most of the times the community was mature enough to respect unwritten rules like "Hadrian Wall's is the 8-men roaming zone".

 

Sadly, it went downhill pretty fast with the release of ToA, when they introduced horrible grinds to remain competitive in pvp (and the leveling to 50 wasn't exactly a stroll in the park).

 

10 years later, I still miss the DAoC feel to be fighting for the big picture, for an entire faction. Stuff like defending a keep to stall some enemies while the rest of your realm is opening the relic keep, escorting the captured relic back home or simply roaming around looking for **** to kill.

 

I don't want to fight for the next tier of armor.

I want to fight to see stuff change in the frontier.

Edited March 14, 2012 by ShizuXIII

[Duatronic]

Thank you all for the responses thus far. Keep them coming! I will likely want to follow up with each person that responds individually so expect a friend request from me soon.

[Foodaddy]

Instanced PvP is done really well by SWTOR.

 

Open-World PvP (What Ilum is) is a huge element of PvP that is incredibly fun and missing.

 

When you kill a guy in a WZ, sure its cool, but not that thrilling or exciting.

 

When you see a target in the open world, stalk him, strike at the right time and kill him, there is no greater joy in playing an MMO.

 

A game that did this well was Star Wars Galaxies. Groups of 20+ would assemble and raid an area where word had gotten out that 20+ imps were hanging out. It was like a wild west shootout. Many would die, some would run. You felt that each kill was significant, as there wasn't insta-respawning.

 

I wish that there was an incentive to fight all over the map in SWTOR, but sadly, with the theme park setup it is going to be difficult. Not to mention that even when Ilum really gets going, people que for warzones and dissapear.

 

With WZ's, Open world PvP can never be the primary thing. But with creative ideas and incentives, there is hope.

 

What you really need are places where all the level 50's "hang out". Right now this is only the fleet, and you can't raid it. I wish there was a spaceport or something with PvP quest terminals and tons of vendors where 50's hung out and each faction periodically raided/killed each other.

 

And don't even get me started on player bounties.... OMG playing a BH in SWG was honestly the tightest thing ever.