BH nerf confirmed

[Scoobings]

Of course we use tracer's a lot it's our main spell, but if you see someone ONLY useing that and not mobile at all he is instant failure. I use tracers, stun, knock back, heatseeker missiles, unload, power shot, rapid shots, explosive dart, power punch, shield, rail shot... And this is just saying some of the spells i use in combat, i use all of these EVERYTIME! and more spells, so people who only spam tracer's and heatseeker and maybe a rail shot is instant fail in my book! as in pvp its EASY to stop rotation for a bh with interrupt or just jump on him and beat him down so to speak.

 

All i'm saying, even if "some" do it in a BAD way (in my book) and only use some spells, don't mean we all do.

And if you think i do a bad job with useing all my abilities you're wrong again, i always get +300k dmg normal damage in one wz is around 450k-500k+, and no i don't only go and try spam damage, i do what you are suppose to do on the wz, if its getting a ball over the line in the pit, or getting guns in civil war.

Saying a class is "easy" cuz some play it wrong, is just wrong!

 

Right, but all you really need is Tracer, Heat seeking, and Railshot to do your maximum DPS rotation. I don't recall if unload is in there, it might be (but I don't think so). You can be successful with only those 3 moves.

 

Does that mean it's all you use? Of course not, and that's where the skill ceiling comes into the equation. All they're saying is the core of your DPS rotation is too relient on Tracer missile and they want to give you a little variety.

 

If you disagree with that, then you're simply ignorant to the mechanics of your class (or math) because even in your own estimation 85% of the moves used in your DPS rotation consists of Tracer Missile.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Scoobings

[Scoobings]

No one is talking about reducing your damage, that's why he's not calling it a nerf. They're talking about making your DPS rotation more varied.

[DEuZZ]

Right, but all you really need is Tracer, Heat seeking, and Railshot to do your maximum DPS rotation. I don't recall if unload is in there, it might be (but I don't think so). You can be successful with only those 3 moves.

 

Does that mean it's all you use? Of course not, and that's where the skill ceiling comes into the equation. All they're saying is the core of your DPS rotation is too relient on Tracer missile and they want to give you a little variety.

 

If you disagree with that, then you're simply ignorant to the mechanics of your class (or math) because even in your own estimation 85% of the moves used in your DPS rotation consists of Tracer Missile.

 

Have you heard of a thing called heat? if you only spam the way YOU think you do, you're at 100% heat in 1-2-3! then you vent heat ok, and u do same now ur at max heat in 1-2. Even if you have the skill that vent +8 heat every 3 sec on crits like i have!

Unload is VERY VERY VERY good skill in pvp, you get a barrage proc buff, that gives this spell insane dmg! + on the crits you vent a lot heat at same time! i must say talking about a class with you, that you clearly don't understand, is like trying to get a monkey to talk.

[Denarok]

Overhauls happen pretty regularly in MMOs. Usually the class is better for it, and it sounds like that's what they want to achieve here. People are quick to over react. They assume they're going to be smashed over the head with the nerf bat when they know absolutely 0 details on what's coming.

 

Well i am hoping they know what they are doing, at least if they going to change the class, can they at least include an interrupt?

 

I don't understand why we don't have one?

[Tenbrion]

I think, as usual, what people are really saying is "I like having massive dps by pushing one button"....

 

Considering how many people play the game, including some inexperienced pvpers and fairly young people, this isn't surprising.

 

I for one love the idea, am looking forward to the change, and cant wait to have the chance to burn people down like I do today, without the requirement to do so optimally using only one skill.

[Turn-XGundam]

Overhauls happen pretty regularly in MMOs. Usually the class is better for it, and it sounds like that's what they want to achieve here. People are quick to over react. They assume they're going to be smashed over the head with the nerf bat when they know absolutely 0 details on what's coming.

 

well i don't mind having another attack in rotation, its slight problem i have with buff/debuff setup/stack up. currently 5 tracer gets you the heat seeking buff, most of the time unload buff, railshot buff, damage reduction buff, vent on crit, armor debuff. so 5 tracers to set up your attacks, now if they give half of the above mentioned buff/debuffs to powershot. it will take 5 tracer and 5 powershots to get the same setup. that 5 extra gcd not to mention both are channeled abilities not instant. this is will make arsenal a very easy class to beat then it is already, also the dps will be lowered.

 

now that problem can easily be avoided if they increase buff/debuff % so you don"t have to do 10 attacks to set up.

[sensiblepoast]

Incoming reroll to for teh lulz sorc class in 4 3 2 1...

[Dookies]

i hope they dont screw it up. most mercs/troopers probably are already aware of this, but by reducing tracer missile damage and discouraging its "spam", you are altering :

 

Rail shot. If we use less tracer missiles, we get to 5 stacks of Tracer Lock slower which could translate into less rail shots if you wait till you are at 5 stacks. Given that Rail shot is free if you have the skill + 4pc set bonus, it could pan out to a dps loss due to less tracer locks in the long run

 

Our 2pc set bonus is also gives TM/Power Shot 15% crit. A nerf to tracer could make our set bonuses, which are really helpful, feel really weak if a majority of our damage is allocated from TM to some other form. (Unless its power shot).

 

The set bonuses prob wont be that big of an impact given the new tier coming out

 

Terminal Velocity relies on missile and unload crits to vent heat. Venting 8 heat on crit is essential to heat management. Also TM/Power shots trigger an unload +25% dmg proc, so discouraging TM use would mean less unload procs.

 

I'm all for the balancing of the merc/commando rotation, but i hope they dont mess it up. Got really bored of the x3 TM + HS +x2 TM + RS + proc repeat. They would have to look at a whole redesign of the spec given that the tree is mostly based on heavy tracer missile usage. Careless changes could ruin the whole class. You have been warned Bioware!

[CrunkShizzle]

did they at least say anything about buffing advanced prototype tree for powertechs

 

i was thinkin about tryin a powertech but advanced prototype looks more appealing to me then pyrotech.pyrotech just seems like it would get boring with all the "lolfire" skills

[malformed]

i hope they dont screw it up. most mercs/troopers probably are already aware of this, but by reducing tracer missile damage and discouraging its "spam", you are altering :

 

Rail shot. If we use less tracer missiles, we get to 5 stacks of Tracer Lock slower which could translate into less rail shots if you wait till you are at 5 stacks. Given that Rail shot is free if you have the skill + 4pc set bonus, it could pan out to a dps loss due to less tracer locks in the long run

 

Our 2pc set bonus is also gives TM/Power Shot 15% crit. A nerf to tracer could make our set bonuses, which are really helpful, feel really weak if a majority of our damage is allocated from TM to some other form. (Unless its power shot).

 

The set bonuses prob wont be that big of an impact given the new tier coming out

 

Terminal Velocity relies on missile and unload crits to vent heat. Venting 8 heat on crit is essential to heat management. Also TM/Power shots trigger an unload +25% dmg proc, so discouraging TM use would mean less unload procs.

 

I'm all for the balancing of the merc/commando rotation, but i hope they dont mess it up. Got really bored of the x3 TM + HS +x2 TM + RS + proc repeat. They would have to look at a whole redesign of the spec given that the tree is mostly based on heavy tracer missile usage. Careless changes could ruin the whole class. You have been warned Bioware!

 

 

 

that's my worry, arsenal is HEAVILY dependent on TM, it was DESIGNED that way.

tm is tied to many other skills, buffs, armor debuff, HVGS, heat management, and even our set piece bonuses.

lots of things will have to be changed.

I would like to see missile blast come down in cost and go up in usefulness, and a more useful power shot would be nice too but some of the other mechanics/buffs/heat cost need to be changed to make it work out.

 

if this somehow means we spend less time channeling tm/power shot it could allow us to be more mobile during fights and less susceptible to interrupts too (not just the actual interrupt ability's but any ability that stops you from channeling), which would be super even in pve.

 

to sum it up... I'm for the change, but it doesn't seem like a simple fix will work here, so i worry. but my hopes are high for a positive outcome.

I'm interested in seeing how this plays out.

Edited March 14, 2012 by malformed

[scottphillips]

All rational people, including the dude being interviewed, seem to agree on two things

 

1. Mashing TM allows a bad player to achieve better than deserved results in a damage stat (though claims that you can top the carts by doing so auto disqual anyones opinion as that is stupid)

 

2. Vs a good player TM epic fails

 

 

However, 2 does not go far enough. Vs a good player in just about any class an arsenal merc is straight F'ed in the A. Arsenal merc is a pretty crappy burst/sustained DPS hybrid.

 

Solutions like splitting the benefits of tracer to other attacks are moronic because they require to use more attacks that don't hit hard enough to burst and take up too much heat to be sustainable in the long run.

 

 

 

The only way to really contribute to your team because of this is to fill various support roles as the 2nd or 3rd person in confrontations. If they are going to nerf TM the changes to the rest of the tree better fix the rest of our abilities.

[Catalan]

He mentions the lack of a real rotation and the combat adrenaline feel for the changes to TM with a allusion to WZs rather than " Mercs be spammin TM pewpew in PvP, we no likie so nerfz"

 

 

 

Regardless if you deem it a nerf or not, Georg very clearly states that it won't be a 2 button spam class anymore. No speculation at all.

 

I'm glad there will be a more complex rotation and hope to see some skilled Mercs tearing people apart with it.

 

Exactly this.

 

When I asked Justin to confirm the details of the nerf with Georg, I was expecting the worst (I play a Pyro PT), but I was pleasantly surprised. TM spam has been a contentious issue from day one. (God I remember using it to great effect in Beta!).

[Devoter]

Hope that TM change made people less cry about OP TM, less spamming idiots play the class in WZ and open the spec for the buffs it needs, interrupt and mobility.

[Kabaal]

Tbh it sounds more like a buff than anything else, at least you won't need to rely on a single interruptible skill for all your debuffs and buffs anymore. Edited March 14, 2012 by Kabaal

[Scoobings]

Have you heard of a thing called heat? if you only spam the way YOU think you do, you're at 100% heat in 1-2-3! then you vent heat ok, and u do same now ur at max heat in 1-2. Even if you have the skill that vent +8 heat every 3 sec on crits like i have!

Unload is VERY VERY VERY good skill in pvp, you get a barrage proc buff, that gives this spell insane dmg! + on the crits you vent a lot heat at same time! i must say talking about a class with you, that you clearly don't understand, is like trying to get a monkey to talk.

 

The fact that you overheat when you use your ideal rotation is irrelevent because so does every other class. Assassins run out of energy, powertechs overheat, juggs get rage starved.

 

The point, which you are totally missing, is that your rotation is dependent on one move much more heavily than others because of core design of the arms tree. So, in an attempt to make the class not boring, they are attempting to vary the moves that compose your ideal rotation.

 

The change isn't a "nerf" because your overall damage output should be the same if they do it right. Quit victimizing yourself and adjust.

[DEuZZ]

The fact that you overheat when you use your ideal rotation is irrelevent because so does every other class. Assassins run out of energy, powertechs overheat, juggs get rage starved.

 

The point, which you are totally missing, is that your rotation is dependent on one move much more heavily than others because of core design of the arms tree. So, in an attempt to make the class not boring, they are attempting to vary the moves that compose your ideal rotation.

 

The change isn't a "nerf" because your overall damage output should be the same if they do it right. Quit victimizing yourself and adjust.

 

You should really scroll even more back to what i typed before that post, i don't do that rotation at all, if u would taken the time to read what i said before that about my rotation you would know. I said that rotation i just typed there that all you NOT bh people think we do is fail, or u bad bh who acctualy do that.

 

I just typed that post to tell a guy that this don't work, it's terrabad if you try play that way, was basicly just to say that we use A LOT more spells then just tracer's. You guys who think we only do are not very smart, or those who only use tracer's are bad as i said. No good merc only spam tracer's and heatseeker and railshot.

 

And if u think it's issue i don't crit i do, i have 36% normal crit and 78% multiplayer. People try to act smart saying "lol bh only spam tracers" it's a sad you're brain really think that, is like me saying "sorc only use sprint and force lighting maybe a dot or two, maybe a grab pull if he smart" you see what i'm saying? people who don't understand the class, only talking about "what they see" are just making fool of themself.

But i'm not denying we use tracer's a lot of course we do, it's our main spell. But it's by far no the one spell that's useful, so go back some pages and u see i've written some of the spells i use EVERYTIME!

Edited March 14, 2012 by DEuZZ

[sensiblepoast]

The change isn't a "nerf" because your overall damage output should be the same if they do it right. Quit victimizing yourself and adjust.

 

Adjust, what unnerfed people say to nerfed people in every game.

[Undorett]

So, this “nerf” has me concerned as a PVE arsenal merc. I currently rely on all of the goodies that TM provides me and my raid team. To adjust some of the dependency off of tracer missile onto other skills seems like a good thing in theory, but what will happen in reality? Right now TM gives the following:

Heat signatures

2-10% shield

Bonus to rail shot

Refreshes unload

Typical current rotation is:

1.5s mark: TM hits (2% shield – 8% mitigation reduction)

3s mark: TM hits (4% shield – 16% mitigation reduction)

4.5s mark: TM hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

4.5s mark: HSM hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

6s-9s mark: Unload hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

10.5s mark: TM hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

10.5s mark: Rail shot hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

13.5s mark: TM hits (10% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

So at 13.5s into the fight I am finally at full power

 

The main part of the skill is to give those heat signatures to lower mitigation and increase the damage of HSM, I don’t see that being removed from the skill, but it’s very likely they will remove say the shield and rail shot bonuses to maybe power shot. This doesn’t necessarily make sense as you need to have the heat signature on the mob to use rail shot but whatever. Assuming they offload these two things to power shot with no other changes:

1.5s mark: TM hits (8% mitigation reduction)

3s mark: TM hits (16% mitigation reduction)

4.5s mark: TM hits (20% mitigation reduction)

4.5s mark: HSM hits (20% mitigation reduction)

6s-9s mark: Unload hits (20% mitigation reduction)

10.5s mark: PS hits (2% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

12s mark: PS hits (4% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

13.5s mark: TM hits (4% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) (to maintain)

14s mark: PS hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

14s-17s mark: Unload hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) *assumed based on 30% proc rate off PS or TM

18.5s mark: PS hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

20s mark: rail shot hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

20s mark: HSM hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

23s mark: TM hits (4% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) (to maintain)

24.5s mark: PS hits (10% shield – 20% mitigation reduction)

So at 24.5s into the fight I am finally at full power (-3s for no unload proc, +3s for 2 unload procs) this may also increase as it will likely not be worth holding out on rail shot for so long up front so +1.5s for another rail shot

 

I am really hoping they offload the buffs to something other than powershot, or allow the buffs to stack faster than they currently do with TM so that we can be to full power in a reasonable amount of time. In raiding I don’t think I have ever been able to stand somewhere for that long without missiles coming at me or being knocked back and all around. For PVP players this will be even worse, you will be toasted before you are at full power.

[DEuZZ]

Quote: So, this “nerf” has me concerned as a PVE arsenal merc. I currently rely on all of the goodies that TM provides me and my raid team. To adjust some of the dependency off of tracer missile onto other skills seems like a good thing in theory, but what will happen in reality? Right now TM gives the following:

Heat signatures

2-10% shield

Bonus to rail shot

Refreshes unload, End Quote.

 

Yeah that's the problem with nerfing classes, they DON'T think about people doing pve, anyway to nerf in star wars is big fail, it's what destroyed wow really endless nerfing, and to be fair bh are'nt the dominate class in pvp, like sorc, sage etc is WAY better and "OP" if you want to use that word..

Also this game don't have arena is no 2vs2 etc, so i really don't see any point balance 8vs8... Stupid is what it is.

 

I rather see some BUFFING of other classes then, then nerfing! also if they change so we suppose to use some other spells, etc that we basicly need learn our class all over again after playing this way since 1-50 and endless hours in pvp + raid, well then i'm done with this game. (talking about if they remove tracers and other spells for "new" spells or what not).

 

And when thats said some pople enjoy "easy" classes, not since they bad but some like that too, i see NOTHING wrong with that, all mmo's have classes that are more "easy" then others!

Also when people say "easy" class, DON'T mean we are BETTER class. If you gonna say we best pvp class you need to learn to play you're class, enough said.

If "easy" class is not for you just roll something "hard".. So if thats the point of bioware's nerf that to is big failure.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DEuZZ

[Coldrazor]

Yeah that's the problem with nerfing classes, they DON'T think about people doing pve, anyway to nerf in star wars is big fail, it's what destroyed wow really endless nerfing

They don't? That's assuming much when you don't know what they're changing or how our dps compares to other classes atm.

 

And since wow still has enough subscribers to populate a small country I'd say the nerfs and buffs worked good for that game.

[Razitheoriginal]

I don't care what they do, aslong as arsenal dps PVE wise will be not nerfed. Imo PVPers, can piss off. 99% whines and complaints about the game is PVP based, all PVP whines should go to PVP section of game or atleast make forum post tagged as PVP or PVE, so ppl can skip useless PVP whines. That would make forums somewhat usefull again.

 

-Raz

[DEuZZ]

I don't care what they do, aslong as arsenal dps PVE wise will be not nerfed. Imo PVPers, can piss off. 99% whines and complaints about the game is PVP based, all PVP whines should go to PVP section of game or atleast make forum post tagged as PVP or PVE, so ppl can skip useless PVP whines. That would make forums somewhat usefull again.

 

-Raz

 

Cool story bro.

[nafum]

Honestly if they change it to where I can use more than just TM to the same effect (around the same DPS in both pve and pvp) and somehow make it an alright switch to learning how to play the class again, I won't have that much of a problem with it.

 

I'd like to be able to have a little more variety with Arsenal Merc, even in raids it's the same thing over and over. If they can make the class more mobile without affecting DPS by much I say go for it.

[lifeisdeath]

 

I'd like to be able to have a little more variety with Arsenal Merc, even in raids it's the same thing over and over.

 

no matter what they do, everyone will find the rotation that provides the most damage and use it repeatedly. you will get bored with the new BH same as the old BH. this changes nothing except that people will have to find something else to whine about as to why they always get killed by BHs when they ignore them.

[Dahkot]

I don't care what they do, aslong as arsenal dps PVE wise will be not nerfed. Imo PVPers, can piss off. 99% whines and complaints about the game is PVP based, all PVP whines should go to PVP section of game or atleast make forum post tagged as PVP or PVE, so ppl can skip useless PVP whines. That would make forums somewhat usefull again.

 

-Raz

 

I don't care what they do, aslong as arsenal dps PVP wise will be not nerfed. Imo PVEers, can piss off. 99% whines and complaints about the game is PVE based, all PVE whines should go to PVE section of game or atleast make forum post tagged as PVP or PVE, so ppl can skip useless PVPE whines. That would make forums somewhat usefull again.