New update on progress(concealment)

[Cwild]

Been doing this every now and then posting results as I progressed gear wise.

 

Gear now:

 

Battlemasters earpiece

Battlemasters implant x2

Battlemasters bracers

Battlematers Belt]

Battlemasters field tech helm

Champion power relic

Matrix Cube

Rakata gloves

Rakata pants

Coloni chest

Coloni boots

All Datacrons except +10 to stats (bugged out for me)

All enhancements are taken out of the coloni helm or champ enforcer gloves

 

Mmmkay last post I mentioned how I was having pretty good success in my crap gear. Last night I hit valor 60 and had 5 BM bags pending for turn ins with 1000/1000 commedations.

I was extremely lucky getting 4/5 BM comms in those bags thus giving me all the BM gear day one.

 

I had my 5k crit about 7 times last night with 5.6 being the highest, this with expertise adrenal and relic popped. Backstabs are critting for around 2.9-3.6, shives about 2.2-2.8 and lacerates 2.8-3.6.

 

I solo queued for the majority of the night so I would be able to test my damage vs other premades without having someone from my guild to heal me (relying on pugs). I can kill every class in a stunlock if I use vanish except for Merc healers (only about 50% of the time).

 

If I do not use my vanish as another attack, every player is at 45%.

 

This class is far from broken, I use to complain about not having a gap closer, or knockback immunity and I have changed my opinion because I do not think we need that, however I do now believe we need a better energy resource tool for management in sustained fights.

 

To all the people who are having a hard time, tough it out, get the gear...you will see results. This I promise you.

[Forceconduit]

Cool, glad to hear some good news for a change. My op is at lvl 23 right now so I don't have all my abilites yet, but I'm looking forward to seeing how this class progresses.

 

I noticed the energy starvation issues you have mentioned as well, I'm hoping that Stim Boost will be somewhat effective at countering that, although I usually use up my TA's on Laceration. Time will tell.

[Urothefox]

I have similar results. I'm kicking with only a single piece of pvp gear (BM chest). Everything else is columi and rakata. I don't get the 5K single hit (probably because of the lack of expertise), but I do well for myself. I might not get them in the first rotation, but they do die shortly after.

 

The only players that give me problems are (competent) healers, pyrotech powertechs and oddly enough, the occasional operative. I think these problems are more likely user error than class broken-ness.

 

We aren't a bad class. We certainly don't have it as easy as some classes might, but we can get the job done. I still hear complaints about operatives, and that warms my heart.

[Oscibi]

Been doing this every now and then posting results as I progressed gear wise.

 

Gear now:

 

Battlemasters earpiece

Battlemasters implant x2

Battlemasters bracers

Battlematers Belt]

Battlemasters field tech helm

Champion power relic

Matrix Cube

Rakata gloves

Rakata pants

Coloni chest

Coloni boots

All Datacrons except +10 to stats (bugged out for me)

All enhancements are taken out of the coloni helm or champ enforcer gloves

 

Mmmkay last post I mentioned how I was having pretty good success in my crap gear. Last night I hit valor 60 and had 5 BM bags pending for turn ins with 1000/1000 commedations.

I was extremely lucky getting 4/5 BM comms in those bags thus giving me all the BM gear day one.

 

I had my 5k crit about 7 times last night with 5.6 being the highest, this with expertise adrenal and relic popped. Backstabs are critting for around 2.9-3.6, shives about 2.2-2.8 and lacerates 2.8-3.6.

 

I solo queued for the majority of the night so I would be able to test my damage vs other premades without having someone from my guild to heal me (relying on pugs). I can kill every class in a stunlock if I use vanish except for Merc healers (only about 50% of the time).

 

If I do not use my vanish as another attack, every player is at 45%.

 

This class is far from broken, I use to complain about not having a gap closer, or knockback immunity and I have changed my opinion because I do not think we need that, however I do now believe we need a better energy resource tool for management in sustained fights.

 

To all the people who are having a hard time, tough it out, get the gear...you will see results. This I promise you.

 

This Is too well thought out. please edit post and title to

"OMG OPS IS BROKEN IM NOT RESUBBING!"

 

Thanks

[Sookster]

You were actually pulling 5K+ crits against other players with 500 or higher expertise?

[Ich_Bin]

I am not impressed at all. Yes, with a gear advantage you can reliably crit for 5k on your opener. But what does that really mean? We shouldn't need to have a gear advantage in order to be viable.

 

A dps specced Assassin has got much more utility, better survivability and can also do more burst damage (without the need to be coming from stealth in order to apply it).

The fact remains that an Assassin can do everything better than an Operative. While that doesn't mean that our class is "broken" or "no fun" it also doesn't mean that it is "doing fine".

Edited March 13, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Seurot]

Been doing this every now and then posting results as I progressed gear wise.

 

Gear now:

 

Battlemasters earpiece

Battlemasters implant x2

Battlemasters bracers

Battlematers Belt]

Battlemasters field tech helm

Champion power relic

Matrix Cube

Rakata gloves

Rakata pants

Coloni chest

Coloni boots

All Datacrons except +10 to stats (bugged out for me)

All enhancements are taken out of the coloni helm or champ enforcer gloves

 

Mmmkay last post I mentioned how I was having pretty good success in my crap gear. Last night I hit valor 60 and had 5 BM bags pending for turn ins with 1000/1000 commedations.

I was extremely lucky getting 4/5 BM comms in those bags thus giving me all the BM gear day one.

 

I had my 5k crit about 7 times last night with 5.6 being the highest, this with expertise adrenal and relic popped. Backstabs are critting for around 2.9-3.6, shives about 2.2-2.8 and lacerates 2.8-3.6.

 

I solo queued for the majority of the night so I would be able to test my damage vs other premades without having someone from my guild to heal me (relying on pugs). I can kill every class in a stunlock if I use vanish except for Merc healers (only about 50% of the time).

 

If I do not use my vanish as another attack, every player is at 45%.

 

This class is far from broken, I use to complain about not having a gap closer, or knockback immunity and I have changed my opinion because I do not think we need that, however I do now believe we need a better energy resource tool for management in sustained fights.

 

To all the people who are having a hard time, tough it out, get the gear...you will see results. This I promise you.

 

Uhh....I think your gear is better than pretty much everyone you killed. Looks like you might have a BiS set.

 

So not exactly apples to apples...but more apples to crabapples?

 

I'm in BM earpiece, implants, wrist, gun, offhand and everything else champion and datacron and columni gloves, and I still have yet to get a 5k dam medal even with that warzone buff and popping relics. So you're stats must be much better...and on average from what I see,l I am better geared than most I see in the warzones already. You can't compare someone in BiS to the 'average' guy in the warzone.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Seurot

[Cwild]

You were actually pulling 5K+ crits against other players with 500 or higher expertise?

 

I am not sure. Only 3 of my 5ks were not on Sorcs. They were on two different mauraders.

 

One sorc had to be horribly geared as he was the one that got crit for 5.6. He had 12k hp so I popped every cooldown for the medals. The mara's had 15k hp and the other sorcs had about 14.8.

 

I don't however know if they are 500+. I'm not even 500+ so I don't know.

[Cwild]

I am not impressed at all. Yes, with a gear advantage you can reliably crit for 5k on your opener. But what does that really mean? We shouldn't need to have a gear advantage in order to be viable.

 

A dps specced Assassin has got much more utility, better survivability and can also do more burst damage (without the need to be coming from stealth in order to apply it).

The fact remains that an Assassin can do everything better than an Operative. While that doesn't mean that our class is "broken" or "no fun" it also doesn't mean that it is "doing fine".

 

That is a matter of opinion. You talk alot about assassin bro. In no disrespect to you at all, I never come to these forums intentionally to bash someone but why don't you just roll an assassin then? You seem to like them more.

 

OH and after reading xavory's 1v1 dueling tourny thread I found Optimus the best assassin tank on my server that I have played against and had 1v1 duels with him.

 

 

We split 4-4. I don't know if this "tidus" guy is the best player in the world. But tank assassins are killable.

 

Every match I won though I was 20% hp or under except 1 which he had to of messed up because I rolled him.

[Ich_Bin]

That is a matter of opinion. You talk alot about assassin bro. In no disrespect to you at all, I never come to these forums intentionally to bash someone but why don't you just roll an assassin then? You seem to like them more.

 

OH and after reading xavory's 1v1 dueling tourny thread I found Optimus the best assassin tank on my server that I have played against and had 1v1 duels with him.

 

 

We split 4-4. I don't know if this "tidus" guy is the best player in the world. But tank assassins are killable.

 

Every match I won though I was 20% hp or under except 1 which he had to of messed up because I rolled him.

No offense taken.

First of all, I am in fact rerolling a Shadow. That doesn't mean that the current underperformance of Operatives doesn't bother me.

 

Secondly, I am fine with Operatives in 1v1. But this is a team game. So my issue is with their performance in warzones.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Cwild]

No offense taken.

First of all, I am in fact rerolling a Shadow. That doesn't mean that the current underperformance of Operatives doesn't bother me.

 

Secondly, I am fine with Operatives in 1v1. But this is a team game. So my issue is with their performance in warzones.

 

And that I understand. After numerous testing which you can tell by my posts over the last month with my gear gathering and updates I have been putting myself into situations to look at our group utility.

 

2 nights ago before I got my BM stuff we were doing 2v2's in tatoonie for fun. I was grouped with Optimus the tank sin I mentioned earlier.

 

The first best of 3 was against a merc healer and a marader, they got absolutely rolled, it wasnt even a contest. We opened on the merc and forced his trinket, but not pushing his resolve past max, then I would just defibilate and switch to the merc with a vanish opener on the mara and he would die. (this would use all of my energy and I would be starved if it failed)

 

The second was a best of 7 against that same merc healer with a assasin tank (another great sin from my guild) and it was a little different, They won 4-3 simply because I would get energy starved.

 

The more and more I play, the more I feel as if it isn't a gap closer we really need, but it is our energy management and resources when playing in the group environment. If that got solved, we would actually be pretty *********** great in my opinion.

 

I can garuntee you that if me and a healer went into a 2v2 I would kill those 2 players faster then if he was with a sin, but if he went in 2v3 or 2v4...i would have no shot what so ever as the sin has a better resource of Force.

[Tamanous]

Now if we can only get more information from players who do not think %100 of operatives = concealment and obtain solid knowledge past the 4.5 seconds after a stealth opener.

 

(not a jab at the OP)

Edited March 13, 2012 by Tamanous

[Xaearth]

I solo queued for the majority of the night so I would be able to test my damage vs other premades without having someone from my guild to heal me (relying on pugs). I can kill every class in a stunlock if I use vanish except for Merc healers (only about 50% of the time).

 

If I do not use my vanish as another attack, every player is at 45%.

 

That's my biggest rub with people claiming Concealment is fine.

 

Combat is too damn persistent to rely on vanish as an offensive cooldown.

 

If someone's residual sneeze particles float in your general direction you get locked into combat until one of you dies.

 

If you're relying on vanish as an offensive cooldown, do you realize how easy it becomes for competent players to completely neutralize you?

 

I'm not talking about "Hah hah you can't get back into stealth we pwn you now."

 

I'm talking about "Hah hah you can't get back into stealth, we're going to snare you and leave you wimpering around like a wounded dog, pulling you away from the acid pits and fire traps so you can't do squat for the next 2 minutes."

[Howbadisbad]

And that I understand. After numerous testing which you can tell by my posts over the last month with my gear gathering and updates I have been putting myself into situations to look at our group utility.

 

2 nights ago before I got my BM stuff we were doing 2v2's in tatoonie for fun. I was grouped with Optimus the tank sin I mentioned earlier.

 

The first best of 3 was against a merc healer and a marader, they got absolutely rolled, it wasnt even a contest. We opened on the merc and forced his trinket, but not pushing his resolve past max, then I would just defibilate and switch to the merc with a vanish opener on the mara and he would die. (this would use all of my energy and I would be starved if it failed)

 

The second was a best of 7 against that same merc healer with a assasin tank (another great sin from my guild) and it was a little different, They won 4-3 simply because I would get energy starved.

 

The more and more I play, the more I feel as if it isn't a gap closer we really need, but it is our energy management and resources when playing in the group environment. If that got solved, we would actually be pretty *********** great in my opinion.

 

I can garuntee you that if me and a healer went into a 2v2 I would kill those 2 players faster then if he was with a sin, but if he went in 2v3 or 2v4...i would have no shot what so ever as the sin has a better resource of Force.

 

You didn't need a gap closer because you were against a melee DPS and a healer that can just stand there and tank you.

 

Melee has to have a gap closer/grapple, or else they can never be viable in a game where kiting is possible.

[Coldin]

I'm pretty well geared on my Scoundrel, and I'm not getting anywhere close to a 5k hit. Best I'm hitting is about 4k. I'm also in a mix of battlemaster and rakata gear, with a champion relic and matrix cube.

 

One thing I don't have is all the different datacrons, though I can't imagine that swinging my damage up 1000 points.

 

So...I really have no clue how you're getting 5k hits.

[zaknaphein]

[SammuelSK]

I'm pretty well geared on my Scoundrel, and I'm not getting anywhere close to a 5k hit. Best I'm hitting is about 4k. I'm also in a mix of battlemaster and rakata gear, with a champion relic and matrix cube.

 

One thing I don't have is all the different datacrons, though I can't imagine that swinging my damage up 1000 points.

 

So...I really have no clue how you're getting 5k hits.

 

Kinda curious myself, I've got a couple good scoundrals and Ops on my server, consistantly check what medals they have and compare my own.. and nobody is anywhere near getting 5k medals. Unless the person happens to be say.. level 10, and naked... don't see it happening in Warzones.

[teemoor]

Coloni chest

Coloni boots

 

Cool! Is your Coloni better then Columi? Where does it drop?

[Cwild]

I'm pretty well geared on my Scoundrel, and I'm not getting anywhere close to a 5k hit. Best I'm hitting is about 4k. I'm also in a mix of battlemaster and rakata gear, with a champion relic and matrix cube.

 

One thing I don't have is all the different datacrons, though I can't imagine that swinging my damage up 1000 points.

 

So...I really have no clue how you're getting 5k hits.

 

Got a couple last night also. I'm probably getting them because I have about 1760 cunning in my gear. I am using a good amount of pve gear including the scorekeeper (MH rakata). I only have about 434 expertise but it really doesn't seem to matter on my server at least.

 

Like I said before I can only gauge on my server alone which very well might not be that great, but I have no way of knowing that until xservers queing become available.

 

I did a test last night though and on a 500 expertise operative in full champion gear I was getting 4.6 crits. So I'm assuming anything lower then 500 expertise will net me a 5k crit on a high end proc from hidden.

[Cwild]

Cool! Is your Coloni better then Columi? Where does it drop?

 

I make all of these posts at work, I am sorry I forgot how to spell that set of gear.

[Cwild]

Now if we can only get more information from players who do not think %100 of operatives = concealment and obtain solid knowledge past the 4.5 seconds after a stealth opener.

 

(not a jab at the OP)

 

I would give more information if I played the other specs as much as I play concealment, but I have geared my character strictly for that spec, so that information would be best suited given from someone else. I've only played lethality for about a day, I hated it very much.

 

And as for healing, the main problem that I come across when playing that spec is the fact that I have to juke cast almost constantly to prevent lock ups when other healing classes dont, which pisses me off to be honest.

[Cwild]

You didn't need a gap closer because you were against a melee DPS and a healer that can just stand there and tank you.

 

Melee has to have a gap closer/grapple, or else they can never be viable in a game where kiting is possible.

 

What I have encountered though in terms of the kiting situation is most of the time if I am getting kited I am near some type of LOS option. If I am getting kited and around 40% I will just los and heal. I would say 90% of the players I fight believe they can get the kill so they come after me behind pillars and boxes etc etc. By the time they get to me I'm back to 70%, if I juke cast a heal and get another off, then around 80%. Then they die.

 

I feel weird saying this but I feel like 70% of my fights I am the one doing the kiting with sever tendon explosive probes and auto shot until I think its a good oppurtunity to lock them up for the kill. I kite a lot...

[Coldin]

Got a couple last night also. I'm probably getting them because I have about 1760 cunning in my gear. I am using a good amount of pve gear including the scorekeeper (MH rakata). I only have about 434 expertise but it really doesn't seem to matter on my server at least.

 

Like I said before I can only gauge on my server alone which very well might not be that great, but I have no way of knowing that until xservers queing become available.

 

I did a test last night though and on a 500 expertise operative in full champion gear I was getting 4.6 crits. So I'm assuming anything lower then 500 expertise will net me a 5k crit on a high end proc from hidden.

 

Huh. Still no idea how you're getting above a 4.5k crit, much less 5k crits. I have 1811 cunning, 272 power, and 150 surge. Also using a Battlemaster Blaster. A power adrenal and crit/surge relic are used to make up for the power and surge rating. I also have 447 Expertise.

 

Perhaps you're just frequently going against players that have little to no expertise? There's a lot of battlemaster geared Imps on my server.

 

If we look solely at numbers. Surge has a hard cap at 80% right now. That means to even have a chance at getting a 5k hit, you're going to have to get Shoot First's damage over 2.5k. About 2800 I believe. Using both a Power Adrenal and Power Relic to boost my power over 1100, I'm only just breaking 2600. Expertise can give up to 15% boost, but let's play conservative at 10% since that's the soft cap. An extra 10% will bring that 2600 to just above 2800.

 

So, the only way you're really going to hit that 5k crit is if you're very well geared, get all the right buffs, and going up against someone with no expertise. The warzone expertise buff might help a little in that regard. This is of course not counting any other factors like taunts/guards/ect.

 

I guess it just depends who you're fighting.

[SaintNick]

Huh. Still no idea how you're getting above a 4.5k crit, much less 5k crits. I have 1811 cunning, 272 power, and 150 surge. Also using a Battlemaster Blaster. A power adrenal and crit/surge relic are used to make up for the power and surge rating. I also have 447 Expertise.

 

Perhaps you're just frequently going against players that have little to no expertise? There's a lot of battlemaster geared Imps on my server.

 

If we look solely at numbers. Surge has a hard cap at 80% right now. That means to even have a chance at getting a 5k hit, you're going to have to get Shoot First's damage over 2.5k. About 2800 I believe. Using both a Power Adrenal and Power Relic to boost my power over 1100, I'm only just breaking 2600. Expertise can give up to 15% boost, but let's play conservative at 10% since that's the soft cap. An extra 10% will bring that 2600 to just above 2800.

 

So, the only way you're really going to hit that 5k crit is if you're very well geared, get all the right buffs, and going up against someone with no expertise. The warzone expertise buff might help a little in that regard. This is of course not counting any other factors like taunts/guards/ect.

 

I guess it just depends who you're fighting.

 

You're forgetting Meticulously Kept Blades' 30% surge bonus.

[playasaurus]

go have a look at the operative BiS discussion. You won't get 5k crits on full BM players, but you can do it on people in a mix of champ/cent.