Godzillamax Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Just to let you know where I'm coming from, my main is a Jugg tank (immortal spec). I love my Jugg tank. Complex and fun class and I have to use literally all my abilities to be good at what I do in flashpoints and Ops. Now that my tank is in a mix of full Rakata/Columi, I've started paying more attention to my lvl 50 Merc alt. Initially my merc was a heal spec PvP toon. Hit rank 50 valor and was pretty bored with PvP so I started using my alt more in PvE. I was a healer initially since those were always in demand for PvE groups, but that was extremely dull because all you do for the most part is spam your 3 heal scans + Kolto Missile and in between shoot teammates with Rapid Shots. I then switched to DPS (arsenal) and came to realize it required about the same degree of involvement as bodyguard. Spam a few tracer missiles to get your debuffs/buffs, fire off an unload, heatseeker missile, and rail shot, rinse and repeat. DPS requires even less attention and thinking than healing which makes the Arsenal spec feel even more dumbed-down than Bodyguard spec. Sure you use a few more abilities on occasion, typically stuff on 1-2 min cds (like vent heat and thermal sensor override), but nothing near the complexity and challenge of my Jugg tank. Perhaps the Merc is supposed to be the "easy" to play class. I don't know. But to me it seems a shame that a class that could be more complex and more fun to play isn't. In hindsight I really wish I had chosen to level my sniper instead of my merc. Anyway, here is to hoping Mercs get some tweaking in the future to hopefully make them more complex and enjoyable. Edited March 13, 2012 by Godzillamax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_droider_ Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 If a BG Merc had more abilities it would be overpowered. BG Merc isn't about using a zillion abilities to get the job done, it's about being very precise about how you manage your heat while maintaining survivability and progression through w/e event you're in. Every class has a few core abilities with a variety of utility skills and cooldowns; Jugg is no exception. Some have more than others, but that doesn't make the latter any less complex. Nice try trolling our forums though. I especially enjoy how you completely neglect to mention anything outside Arsenal's DPS rotation and the fact that a Bodyguard is MUCH more than just 3 healing abilities and kolto missile. ...speaking of sniper alts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phreakie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) First: Bodyguard healing in PvP is much more than just spamming 3 moves. You need to manage heat by NOT spamming your big heals. You need to use your defensive/healing CD's at the right time to ensure you keep a door/turret/ball and finally, you have to do this for up to 7 other people in your group at the same time. Include LoSing the enemy, getting into position, using stuns/knockbacks, interrupting caps, etc. into the mix as you see that healing well as ANY class is challenging...especially when the other team hates your guts. Second: Why does no-one on this forum realise that there are 3 Mercenary specs in this game...Pyrotech isn't just for Powertechs guys! Edited March 13, 2012 by Phreakie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Second: Why does no-one on this forum realise that there are 3 Mercenary specs in this game...Pyrotech isn't just for Powertechs guys! i am looking forward to dual spec pyro for a bit when they put dual spec in, but honestly based on what i read and hear people saying, if you are pyro you need to be PT... PVE pyro merc's sit, pvp i dont have any issue wasting them point blank with missles. granted i know how to click my cure button but really that is all i needed to add to my rotation to take out a pyro merc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggito Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I find my 33 Bodyguard Merc much more fun than my 42 sniper or 50 Sorcerer. You can break any class you want down into well you just press blank and blank and blank. I don't have a Jug, but I do have a marauder. Wheee I charge, deadly saber, battering assault, rupture, annihilate. Keep dots up and hit annihilate. Still fun for me though Edited March 13, 2012 by maggito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germil Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 As full healer spec or hybrid heal/gun spec, I find that the game play is quite rich and interesting, between heal, dps, aoe dps, cc, defensives CDs, supercharge managment, heal managment etc... I agree that (full) merc gunnery is quite boring however, thats why I don't play it. Pyro is actually a little better, but it is still a simple rotation. What makes heal/hybrid interesting is the choice you have to dps or to heal, and the synergy bewteen the two with supercharge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizbanic Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 It is only boring because you lack the ability to make it not boring. My merc, powertech and sorc are all fun to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asavar Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Just to let you know where I'm coming from, my main is a Jugg tank (immortal spec). I love my Jugg tank. Complex and fun class and I have to use literally all my abilities to be good at what I do in flashpoints and Ops. Now that my tank is in a mix of full Rakata/Columi, I've started paying more attention to my lvl 50 Merc alt. Initially my merc was a heal spec PvP toon. Hit rank 50 valor and was pretty bored with PvP so I started using my alt more in PvE. I was a healer initially since those were always in demand for PvE groups, but that was extremely dull because all you do for the most part is spam your 3 heal scans + Kolto Missile and in between shoot teammates with Rapid Shots. I then switched to DPS (arsenal) and came to realize it required about the same degree of involvement as bodyguard. Spam a few tracer missiles to get your debuffs/buffs, fire off an unload, heatseeker missile, and rail shot, rinse and repeat. DPS requires even less attention and thinking than healing which makes the Arsenal spec feel even more dumbed-down than Bodyguard spec. Sure you use a few more abilities on occasion, typically stuff on 1-2 min cds (like vent heat and thermal sensor override), but nothing near the complexity and challenge of my Jugg tank. Perhaps the Merc is supposed to be the "easy" to play class. I don't know. But to me it seems a shame that a class that could be more complex and more fun to play isn't. In hindsight I really wish I had chosen to level my sniper instead of my merc. Anyway, here is to hoping Mercs get some tweaking in the future to hopefully make them more complex and enjoyable. You must be really bad. I have a 50 mercenary, arsenal, and a 50 juggernaut, immortal. Both are insanely easy to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strifegambit Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 HAHA mercs fun comes into it with managing your heat and outlaying as much dps as you can while still healing, Sorcs are a cakewalk healer that are easy. Simply cause you find the class no fun is no reason to say its easy, try solo healing HM SoA when your other healer is dead & finding that mercs have no Battle rez yay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzillamax Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Interestingly enough, apparently the devs agree with me: Tracer Missile is a community favorite, and I can flat out state that if you pull the Tracer Missile stun on a skilled player, you are not going to live. It’s not working. Alright, if you know how to use interrupts, we see people stand there and they die. But that said, it is also dangerous to have people in a state where they can have a fairly decent DPS rotation with almost no effort. That isn’t good long term for them either. It is boring and it doesn’t add as much combat adrenaline as we want. So we did some changes there to rebalance that particular tree to move a bit out of the Tracer Missile, and require you to be more active in your combat style to achieve that kind of effect. You can call that a nerf. I call that housekeeping. http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19979-guild-summit-interview-with-georg-zoeller Edited March 15, 2012 by Godzillamax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinediks Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I dont find bodyguard boring in PvP. I do wish we had an interrupt however. Have you tried Pyrotech PvP? You can really burst people down. Its fkn fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzillamax Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 I dont find bodyguard boring in PvP. I do wish we had an interrupt however. Have you tried Pyrotech PvP? You can really burst people down. Its fkn fun. I hit lvl 52 valor and cut my PvP way back. Mostly just PvEing now. Was Bodyguard/healer, but found that dull (if you don't, more power to you). Doing the Arsenal PvE spec now and find it dull also. The rotation is too simple for my tastes and too bound to the Tracer x 3, Unload, Tracer x 2, Heatseeker then Powershot rinse and repeat rotation. IMO that just isn't very challenging (apparently to others responding to this thread it is). It would be nice if other attacks were worth using once you factor in damage/power/distance considerations. I get that Arsenal hinges around Tracer Missile and the debufs/buffs. Just detracts from what Arsenal could be IMO and ends up making it dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I dont find bodyguard boring in PvP. I do wish we had an interrupt however. Have you tried Pyrotech PvP? You can really burst people down. Its fkn fun. What he said. ^^ With no escapes and no interrupts playing in the post level 50 bracket where many players actually have a clue, playing a full spec Merc healer can be 15 mins of pure crazy. Between your lack of mobility, no escapes, the constant target for CC, and interrupts I find that I spend more time simply focused on keeping myself and others alive. I am not sure I even have time to blink in most matches. It helps to be in a premade with vent. But pug a match with 7 other team mates and your survivability and effectiveness drops like a rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceWelder Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I hit lvl 52 valor and cut my PvP way back. Mostly just PvEing now. Was Bodyguard/healer, but found that dull (if you don't, more power to you). Doing the Arsenal PvE spec now and find it dull also. The rotation is too simple for my tastes and too bound to the Tracer x 3, Unload, Tracer x 2, Heatseeker then Powershot rinse and repeat rotation. IMO that just isn't very challenging (apparently to others responding to this thread it is). It would be nice if other attacks were worth using once you factor in damage/power/distance considerations. I get that Arsenal hinges around Tracer Missile and the debufs/buffs. Just detracts from what Arsenal could be IMO and ends up making it dull. I stopped playing a Arsenal Merc once I hit 50 because it felt dull. Back then Huttball hit almost every single time and being the guy whose job was to be an immoble turret killing people who tried to get the ball in the middle just wasn't satisfying. With no burst run, leap or grapple, it felt like my potential contribution to the team was limited. If a ball handler got out of my range, odds were I wasn't going to catch him / her. And even if I did, they would simply pass the ball to someone else. But pointlessly chasing somebody across a huttball field was not my strength. The Merc class strength is in control. And in the case of Huttball, control equals managing the cener area. But that goes back to what I said earlier. simply killing people in the center got old. Some people may enjoy this. I did too for the first hundred times. But after playing as many matches as I have doing the same thing over and over again. It got old quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamleFenris Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 i have the totaly opposite experience as you, i lvld my merc to 50, got bored, lvl a jugg to 50, realized juggs are fun, but arsenal/bodyguard are way more fun for me! now back on my merc and not turning back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotm Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Its ok, I wish healing wasn't trash until end game though. Overall it could definity use some mobility, combos, procs something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 They both are boring foresure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Boring? Sure they can be boring. That's a matter of opinion. But as far as them being easy.... Is there a class that's HARD to play? I mean, it's a video game. I don't care how many abilities you have available. Nothing is really hard to play. Maybe its hard to grasp the most effective strategy of certain classes. But hard to play a MMO? Come on now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Boring? Sure they can be boring. That's a matter of opinion. But as far as them being easy.... Is there a class that's HARD to play? I mean, it's a video game. I don't care how many abilities you have available. Nothing is really hard to play. Maybe its hard to grasp the most effective strategy of certain classes. But hard to play a MMO? Come on now... Roll a maurader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Roll a maurader... Are you saying Marauders are difficult to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Are you saying Marauders are difficult to play? Nope. What i am saying is they are by far more difficult then anything bounty hunter though... I'm talking from a pvp perspective btw...it's all I know Edited March 17, 2012 by Irishbrewed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadgarth Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Arsenal PvP is pretty friggin boring. I won't argue with you there. As a bodyguard its anything but though. I love having 3+ dps on me and after 10 seconds still be at full health. Also, I use pretty much every ability I have while PvPing as a healer. Shoulder slam and the one that requires a companion are the only two I don't (for obvious reasons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Nope. What i am saying is they are by far more difficult then anything bounty hunter though... I'm talking from a pvp perspective btw...it's all I know If anything, Mercenaries are harder to play due to the lack of mobility/stealth/interrupt etc. Marauders have the cloak/interrupts/leaps....much easier to play when you have more tools available. Just because you have more attacks to choose from doesn't make an RPG "hard". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensiblepoast Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) If anything, Mercenaries are harder to play due to the lack of mobility/stealth/interrupt etc. Marauders have the cloak/interrupts/leaps....much easier to play when you have more tools available. Just because you have more attacks to choose from doesn't make an RPG "hard". Indeed. Troopers are all about positioning. Marauders just faceroll people and claim not to be easy because all of their 4 buttons do something. Edited March 20, 2012 by sensiblepoast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostTown Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 start dps'ing when your group is full health. it could be the difference between killing a ball carrier and not. throw in a death from above or fusion missile when you see a group, then start healing your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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