What is bioware doing for melee dps?

[Beekrah]

I'm curious to know where people are pulling these facts from? Is it straight out of your ***? How exactly do you know that healing from one class is less then another? How exactly do you know that melee dps aren't pulling the same or relatively close to the same amount of dps as your ranged? Last I checked there where no meters in this game.

[JLapp]

I'm curious to know where people are pulling these facts from? Is it straight out of your ***? How exactly do you know that healing from one class is less then another? How exactly do you know that melee dps aren't pulling the same or relatively close to the same amount of dps as your ranged? Last I checked there where no meters in this game.

 

Just because we don't have exact numbers doesn't mean we don't have any clue about what is going on.

 

It is pretty clear to anyone who has ran a HM flashpoint with an operative and with a sage which one is better at keeping a group healed.

[Darth_Bond]

I'm curious to know where people are pulling these facts from? Is it straight out of your ***? How exactly do you know that healing from one class is less then another? How exactly do you know that melee dps aren't pulling the same or relatively close to the same amount of dps as your ranged? Last I checked there where no meters in this game.

 

what the guy above me said, and its pretty obvious which healer you play, mr sorc/sage

[Ewgal]

I don't think there a problem with Melee dps.

 

You basically go from burst to burst and try and manage your output in between as best you can. If Bioware made your burst dmg into sustained dps (which is what the ranged dps classes do) then you would be totally overpowered in PvE and PvP.

 

So, Bioware don't really need to change their division between burst melee dps and sustained range dps classes.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Ewgal

[Vasinar]

I don't think there a problem with Melee dps.

 

You basically go from burst to burst and try and manage your output in between as best you can. If Bioware made your burst dmg into sustained dps (which is what the ranged dps classes do) then you would be totally overpowered in PvE and PvP.

 

So, Bioware don't really need to change their division between burst melee dps and sustained range dps classes.

 

the problem is melee has to re position to avoid traps, fire, knockbacks ect ect..and that is dps or focus building time lost..where ranged has to worry about that less

[Ewgal]

In many PvE encounters the ranged has to move as well. But, the fact remains if you gave melee classes sustained dmg at similar levels to their burst they would be very overpowered, I think. Edited March 15, 2012 by Ewgal

[Vasinar]

In many PvE encounters the ranged has to move as well. But, the fact remains if you gave melee classes sustained dmg at similar levels to their burst they would be very overpowered, I think.

 

Yes that is true...honestly I havent tried a ranged yet, so I cant speak to what they see in ops. However ranged can keep some dps on target while in transit while melee is shut down particularly melee with out any dots. No melee has a sustained burst dmg...its a build up then focus/rage dump..so yes if they were to keep dps at the brust lvls they would indeed be op..but that's not the issue. Its the time spent with no dps or focus build...which when trying to beat an enrage timer in HM or NM is more challenging for melee and could make difference.

[prochuvi]

heres how it goes in TOR

 

normal = super easy mode

 

hard mode = wows normal mode

 

nightmare mode = wows hard mode

 

 

and trust me, melee are a sizable liability in operations, especially in hardmodes / nightmare modes

 

 

similarly, i make my case that the same happens to any non sorc healers

 

BH and operative healers are nowhere near sorc healer capabilities.

 

i only can say .....+1

[Theninjafuzz]

Fights where melee is a liability: Annihilator Droid, Gharj, Soa(not compeltely but ranged is still better), Rancor, That other droid with the puzzle, Karraga(same as Soa).

 

That list is way, way too long. Considering there are only 10 bosses in the game and at least 5 can be listed where melee is a liability is complete fail design. Also, there is the debate that even if melee isn't a liability on the other fights on most of them it is easier/better to have more ranged.

 

That being said, there is raid utility that classes bring (ie Marauder Bloodthirst) that constitutes bringing them and they still do fine damage on these fights if played correctly.

[Ewgal]

However ranged can keep some dps on target while in transit while melee is shut down particularly melee with out any dots. No melee has a sustained burst dmg...its a build up then focus/rage dump..so yes if they were to keep dps at the brust lvls they would indeed be op..but that's not the issue.

 

 

Some of the ranged classes have 3-4 DoTs they can put onto a target, and usually 1-2 instant casts. As a result they do very good sustained dmg on Ops bosses. Melee,as we have written above, is not the same, and rightly so as it would be OP if they could do sustained dmg in the way ranged dps classes can. In the end it comes down to play style, but ranged can't hit those high early numbers in the way the melee classes can, so they have limitations too. Both types of dps have to move in most Ops boss encounters.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Ewgal

[Vasinar]

Some of the ranged classes have 3-4 DoTs they can put onto a target, and usually 1-2 instant casts. As a result they do very good sustained dmg on Ops bosses. Melee,as we have written above, is not the same, and rightly so as it would be OP if they could do sustained dmg in the way ranged dps classes can. In the end it comes down to play style, but ranged can't hit those high early numbers in the way the melee classes can, so they have limitations too. Both types of dps have to move in most Ops boss encounters.

 

The point is not that melee should have the ability to have sustained burst dmg...thats an oxymoron and non-sense...its that melee is cc, stuned, knocked back, or in some cases simply unable to get to the boss to do any dmg or focus build, so our dps for certain periods of time is ZERO...that is a complete shut down and have an effect much larger then what is intended in the standard model of build up/ ability dump burst that melee is noted for.

Look wether you get what Im saying or not is irrelevant, the fact is melee is a liability in ops, with the only exception being the buff sent/mara's have. I have witnessed it first hand. HM garj for one thing...when you have mostly melee, even well equipped, you have a damed hard time beating the enrage timer vs moderatly equipped ranged.

Understand no one...and to reiterate NO ONE is saying that melee should have sustained burst (snicker)...but as it stands right now melee can not perform what it needs to do in many if not most of the bosses out there, and they ARE being excluded from operations because they have been designed out of them

[Bishidoblade]

The people who tell you that bringing melee is a liability are morons. Any melee worth anything can easily manage CDs to avoid taking 90% of damage. There arnt any fights in this game that are hard enough where its clear cut, at least for Sent/Mara's.

 

 

Its just a bunch of scrubs who think they know what they are talking about, spouting off verbal diarrhea. I'm sorry they have crappy melee, really ;P Again their are no fights in this game that are actually so hard it makes a difference. Pay attention and you wont die - nuff said. Is it easier to stand at ranged and mindlessly hit your 2-3 buttons... sure. Its also not hard standing in melee and paying attention and not dieing. We have killed everything on every difficulty melee heavy on our first attempt - recruit better players - its not a melee thing - its a baddy thing.

[Vasinar]

The people who tell you that bringing melee is a liability are morons. Any melee worth anything can easily manage CDs to avoid taking 90% of damage. There arnt any fights in this game that are hard enough where its clear cut, at least for Sent/Mara's.

 

 

Its just a bunch of scrubs who think they know what they are talking about, spouting off verbal diarrhea. I'm sorry they have crappy melee, really ;P Again their are no fights in this game that are actually so hard it makes a difference. Pay attention and you wont die - nuff said. Is it easier to stand at ranged and mindlessly hit your 2-3 buttons... sure. Its also not hard standing in melee and paying attention and not dieing. We have killed everything on every difficulty melee heavy on our first attempt - recruit better players - its not a melee thing - its a baddy thing.

 

Did you record your miraculous 1 shot on every boss at every difficulty? If not, and you did indeed do that, good for you.

sents have 2 to 3 defensive cd and take lets say garj who aoe's 10-15 sec...yes you can run away from the pounce to help mitigate dmg..or blow a cd to stay in the fight..either way dps is shut down or the healers work harder to keep you up then ranged...thus the disparity. You even admit that, all be it as an insult However the mechanic does exist, and it does affect the players who are melee trying to get into operations

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Wouldnt mind a better gap closer on my sith assassin...

Force jump anyone?

[Goare]

Some of the new fights (T/Z, Pilg) have mechanics that punish stupid dps equally (ie, debuff where if you don't notice it, you own yourself) and fewer that punish solely melee dps.

 

That said, melee dps still gets the short end of the stick. You can manage cooldowns to drastically reduce damage taken, but its not the same as not having to worry about it in the first place.

[Uvirith]

<-DDnaut, full Rakata, EV/KP Nightmare clear

 

I dont get it, where does this game favour ranged-dps?

We did everything with 3 melees and 1 ranged most of the time (sometimes 2/2) and never had the feeling somethings not working.