HKDeath Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 So I heard about the changes to pvp gear and surely Bioware must be making the same changes to PVE gear too, right? Centurian gear removed = Tionese gear removed Champion gear available for credits = Columi gear available for credits New War Hero gear available to anyone who grinds regardless of win/loss rating = New PVE gear available to anyone who grinds regardless of whether they beat the content or not ^If the above is the case, cool. That would be fair. I'll get together in a group and we can go into HM/NM and wipe a whole lot and still get the best PVE gear without winning, since it's only fair that bad PVP players can do the same thing and get their best gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebbikenezer Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you don't partake actively, with equal time, in both... why does it matter? Not saying you're wrong, just curious. I couldn't CARE LESS what anyone has to do to get ANY LEVEL of PvP gear, I run my random WZs every so often, but I don't compete. And to make it fair: I couldn't CARE LESS if they DID do this for PvE gear. At the end of the day, it's the player skill that shines through, NOT the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) You're exaggerating the extent of the changes. They aren't removing Centurion, and the new "Champion" gear will focus almost exclusively on Expertise at the expense of other stats, so while it's good in PVP, it will SUCK in PvE, while Champ is actually good enough gear for Hardmode Ops because it's basically Columi with slightly less main stats, and it's easier to get too. They wouldn't remove Tionese and sell Columi for credits because that completely removes Raid Progression, which is the process of gearing up for one raid, then using the gear from that raid to be strong enough to do the next one up the ladder. No raid progression kills PvE. I can see the satire in your post, though, and it's really not up to par because it's not the same thing at all. PvP should NOT be about gear progression. The gap between even Centurion and normal gear is too wide and makes 50s PvP extremely difficult for fresh 50s, even in all purples, which means even good PvPers will be stomped by gear and not players. The new PvP gear is meant to allow fresh 50s to compete on an even level, rather than at a severe handicap, which lowers the barrier to entry. At the end of the day, bad PvPers will never be good PvPers even with good gear. Whining about the fact that you don't get to keep your gear gap just makes you sound like an entitled loser. FTR, good PvPers still get better gear than bad ones. Grinding only gets you so far, the good PvPers will get access to better looking gear, so bad PvPers may have the same gear as everyone else, but the good PVPers still get the best gear. If you're worried about bad PvPers getting good gear, this news should be a good thing to you. As it is now, anyone can get full Battlemaster if they grind enough. Edited March 12, 2012 by Vid-szhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) They might as well remove Tionese gear, I have never used it outside of companions. I go right from daily mods to Columi. No gear should not be purchased with credits, it should be earned by completing content. Edited March 12, 2012 by Toweleeeie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarithella Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No gear should not be purchased with credits, it should be earned by completing content. While I can see your point I disagree somewhat purely as all that does is lead to elitism and people looking down at other people which we have learnt from other games is not a pleasent thing to have in game. However I also appreciate that those beating the hardest content should have the choice of the best gear that isn't available to others even if the others demand they have access to it. Tough call really. In collecting games such as SWTOR the gear means everything to a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKDeath Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) They wouldn't remove Tionese and sell Columi for credits because that completely removes Raid Progression, which is the process of gearing up for one raid, then using the gear from that raid to be strong enough to do the next one up the ladder. No raid progression kills PvE. I can see the satire in your post, though, and it's really not up to par because it's not the same thing at all. PvP should NOT be about gear progression. The gap between even Centurion and normal gear is too wide and makes 50s PvP extremely difficult for fresh 50s, even in all purples, which means even good PvPers will be stomped by gear and not players. The new PvP gear is meant to allow fresh 50s to compete on an even level, rather than at a severe handicap, which lowers the barrier to entry. At the end of the day, bad PvPers will never be good PvPers even with good gear. Whining about the fact that you don't get to keep your gear gap just makes you sound like an entitled loser. FTR, good PvPers still get better gear than bad ones. Grinding only gets you so far, the good PvPers will get access to better looking gear, so bad PvPers may have the same gear as everyone else, but the good PVPers still get the best gear. If you're worried about bad PvPers getting good gear, this news should be a good thing to you. As it is now, anyone can get full Battlemaster if they grind enough. And PVEers should be playing for the story. To see how the tale unfolds. So gear progression isn't really necessary for them either then, right? Just give the gear to everyone no matter how good or bad they are just like they're doing with PVP gear. ^That's what happens when you try to speak for everyone in a group like you did in your reply. If you want to take the "PVP players should all be on equal ground with equal gear" argument then you have to accept the flipside that all PVEers should have equal gear so they can access and complete the same content. Everyone equal in PVP and everyone equal in PVE. Now to me that seems like a step in the wrong direction and a quick way to remove any sort of progression and lead this game to an early death (if it's not dead already). This path EAWare is taking this game down is a bad one. Edited March 12, 2012 by HKDeath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drosalion Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No gear should not be purchased with credits, it should be earned by completing content. So remove crafting from the game then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 So remove crafting from the game then? How do u get endgame schematics again? Oh yeah, end game content. Then in 1.2 you can RE Op drops and get orange versions with a possible augment slot, but you still have to complete the content. Crafting is content btw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKDeath Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) How do u get endgame schematics again? Oh yeah, end game content. Then in 1.2 you can RE Op drops and get orange versions with a possible augment slot, but you still have to complete the content. Crafting is content btw... Well what if I don't have the time to invest doing "ops" or my guild isnt big enough? I should be able to just buy it for credits or grind some other way to have access to the same gear and scematics. Just like casual PVP players can buy for credits and get the best gear even if they stink. Right? Edited March 12, 2012 by HKDeath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Well what if I don't have the time to invest doing "ops" or my guild isnt big enough? I should be able to just buy it for credits or grind some other way to have access to the same gear and scematics. Just like casual PVP players can buy for credits and get the best gear even if they stink. Right? If Columi gear was lets say 1 million credits per piece, I would be ok with that. You should still have to grind for days to get it though. Maybe a bag system like PvP you can buy with credits, A chance to get one piece of Columi along with some Columi comms, but a very low chance like the current bags. If you cant agree to that, then MMOs are not for you. Centurion is far from best gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKDeath Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) If Columi gear was lets say 1 million credits per piece, I would be ok with that. You should still have to grind for days to get it though. Maybe a bag system like PvP you can buy with credits, A chance to get one piece of Columi along with some Columi comms, but a very low chance like the current bags. If you cant agree to that, then MMOs are not for you. Centurion is far from best gear... I agree that whatever system is in place to get PVP gear should be the same system in place to get PVE gear. ie hand the best gear out to any old scrub and give the organized good players a simple palette swapped version with the same stats. So we're all in agreement. Good. Edited March 12, 2012 by HKDeath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If Columi gear was lets say 1 million credits per piece, I would be ok with that. You should still have to grind for days to get it though. Maybe a bag system like PvP you can buy with credits, A chance to get one piece of Columi along with some Columi comms, but a very low chance like the current bags. If you cant agree to that, then MMOs are not for you. Centurion is far from best gear... And if I don't grind mind-numbing dailies and raids and PvP and prefer the crafting aspect of the game I'm just SOL I guess? Learn to see things from more than your own self-centered tendencies and think about the fact that in MMOs different people play the game different ways and not everyone is playing your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I agree that whatever system is in place to get PVP gear should be the same system in place to get PVE gear. ie hand the best gear out to any old scrub and give the organized good players a simple palette swapped version with the same stats. So we're all in agreement. Good. Im more interested in the time it takes to get the gear. Grouping or solo whatever, as long as it takes the same amount of time and effort to aquire the gear. Im cool with whatever system as long as it is challenging, fun and gear is not just handed to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 And if I don't grind mind-numbing dailies and raids and PvP and prefer the crafting aspect of the game I'm just SOL I guess? Learn to see things from more than your own self-centered tendencies and think about the fact that in MMOs different people play the game different ways and not everyone is playing your game. You can run around "grinding resouce nodes" craft the items and sell them on the GTN. Take credits made and buy the Columi gear. As long as its equal time spent grinding for creds/gear Im all for alternate advancement. Keep in mind this isnt a sandbox MMO as much as we want it to be. Do I really have to spell it out for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You can run around "grinding resouce nodes" craft the items and sell them on the GTN. Take credits made and buy the Columi gear. As long as its equal time spent grinding for creds/gear Im all for alternate advancement. Keep in mind this isnt a sandbox MMO as much as we want it to be. Do I really have to spell it out for you? No but apparently I have to spell it out for you. I craft the gear and I sell it for credits. If no gear should be purchased with credits then those players who put a lot of weight in the crafting side of the game are SOL in your dimension. The fact that you are saying in one post that no gear should be purchased with credits and then telling me to purchase that gear with credits is hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) No but apparently I have to spell it out for you. I craft the gear and I sell it for credits. If no gear should be purchased with credits then those players who put a lot of weight in the crafting side of the game are SOL in your dimension. The fact that you are saying in one post that no gear should be purchased with credits and then telling me to purchase that gear with credits is hypocritical. If you read all my posts you will see the OP convinced me to allow endgame gear to be purchased with credits, as long as the time to make said credits was equal to getting through FP/Ops. Crafting will still be viable, you can RE the endgame gear and craft the gear with same stats with an augment slot. Edited March 12, 2012 by Toweleeeie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) If you read all my posts you will see the OP convinced me to allow endgame gear to be purchased with credits, as long as the time to make said credits was equal to getting through FP/Ops. Crafting will still be viable, you can RE the endgame gear and craft the gear with same stats with an augment slot. But as a crafter, mandating that I do endgame content so I can enjoy my game is kind of selfish. I shouldn't have to farm endgame gear and RE it. I should be able to obtain the schems by some means other than combat. And 1mil per schem is WAY overpriced. I think we agree more than we disagree though. It should not be easily obtained. Edited March 12, 2012 by KrelosDarksky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 But as a crafter, mandating that I do endgame content so I can enjoy my game is kind of selfish. I shouldn't have to farm endgame gear and RE it. I should be able to obtain the schems by some means other than combat. And 1mil per schem is WAY overpriced. I think we agree more than we disagree though. It should not be easily obtained. Im not trying to be selfish here, but this game is not a sandbox MMO like SWG. I cant see it ever being like that and im sorry for that. White end game crystals are 2.5 mil and thats just for the crystal, which is 1/4th of a lightsaber. I think my 1 mil for a schematic for lets say a chest piece which comes with all the mods is being generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrelosDarksky Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Im not trying to be selfish here, but this game is not a sandbox MMO like SWG. I cant see it ever being like that and im sorry for that. White end game crystals are 2.5 mil and thats just for the crystal, which is 1/4th of a lightsaber. I think my 1 mil for a schematic for lets say a chest piece which comes with all the mods is being generous. Excuse my ignorance, but who decides the price on the white crystals? And what I'm saying about the schems is that I have to be able to get something back out of it ... to a crafter that is credits. Paying 2.5mil for endgame level gear nets you enjoyment of the endgame content. Paying 1mil for a chest schem that I can only sell for 20k per nets me frustration because I'd have to sell 50 at that price and HOPE TO OBI-WAN that my price isn't undercut before I reach 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Scythe Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You guys know he is posting to stir up trouble right? He just had another similarly stupid topic locked! In before lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooto Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) You're exaggerating the extent of the changes. They aren't removing Centurion, and the new "Champion" gear will focus almost exclusively on Expertise at the expense of other stats, so while it's good in PVP, it will SUCK in PvE, while Champ is actually good enough gear for Hardmode Ops because it's basically Columi with slightly less main stats, and it's easier to get too. They wouldn't remove Tionese and sell Columi for credits because that completely removes Raid Progression, which is the process of gearing up for one raid, then using the gear from that raid to be strong enough to do the next one up the ladder. No raid progression kills PvE. I can see the satire in your post, though, and it's really not up to par because it's not the same thing at all. PvP should NOT be about gear progression. The gap between even Centurion and normal gear is too wide and makes 50s PvP extremely difficult for fresh 50s, even in all purples, which means even good PvPers will be stomped by gear and not players. The new PvP gear is meant to allow fresh 50s to compete on an even level, rather than at a severe handicap, which lowers the barrier to entry. At the end of the day, bad PvPers will never be good PvPers even with good gear. Whining about the fact that you don't get to keep your gear gap just makes you sound like an entitled loser. FTR, good PvPers still get better gear than bad ones. Grinding only gets you so far, the good PvPers will get access to better looking gear, so bad PvPers may have the same gear as everyone else, but the good PVPers still get the best gear. If you're worried about bad PvPers getting good gear, this news should be a good thing to you. As it is now, anyone can get full Battlemaster if they grind enough. Why pve with gear progression is good but pvp is bad? Remove all gear progression from pve and see how many people will do content just for fun. MMORPG is all about gear and level progression. Who loves to play pvp without any gear/level progression can play FPS games. Edited March 12, 2012 by Kooto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toweleeeie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Excuse my ignorance, but who decides the price on the white crystals? And what I'm saying about the schems is that I have to be able to get something back out of it ... to a crafter that is credits. Paying 2.5mil for endgame level gear nets you enjoyment of the endgame content. Paying 1mil for a chest schem that I can only sell for 20k per nets me frustration because I'd have to sell 50 at that price and HOPE TO OBI-WAN that my price isn't undercut before I reach 50. The devs decided the price, its on a vendor after all. Why would sell the chest piece for 20k? It will be the same chest piece that others will have a very small chance to get when they buy my suggested bag that drops Columi comms also. The HM FPs will drop the same gear that the bag does. They(devs) can make the bag 1 mil and the schematic you buy when your craft skill is high enough for .5 mil or maybe even a chance to get it with crew skill mission. Of course buying it from a crafter would be the best way to get it bc you can crit the chest piece to add an augment slot. Edited March 12, 2012 by Toweleeeie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AesirUesugi Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't think this would be a very good idea, Tionese mainhand weapon especially is still often being used for a LOOONG time by people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Well what if I don't have the time to invest doing "ops" or my guild isnt big enough? I should be able to just buy it for credits or grind some other way to have access to the same gear and scematics. Just like casual PVP players can buy for credits and get the best gear even if they stink. Right? PvP should be about player competition, not who has the best gear. Edited March 12, 2012 by Drewser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carliiiiito Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Why pve with gear progression is good but pvp is bad?. in my opinion the reason is simple.NPC dont come to the forum to complain that the raid is hitting them for 5k when they only hit for 2k back and they have no way to win when the tank has 20k hp. In others words ,if you wanna get a premade and roll normal mode EV in full rakata gear,no one cares..but take a full premade in bm gear and the forums explode. i could be wrong ,just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts