Mara/Pally Bubble needs to be looked at(Undying Rage)

[Zafeer]

Its a situational ability, and does NOT need a nerf at all. Especially when you have a Light Armor class that is able to have a shield that stuns you like a flash bag or a knock back with a root. While those abilities are in different trees they are extremely effective. Marauders lack any CC unless you claim that Force Choke is one, in which case we are rooted in place as well.

 

There are many time thats Undying Rage has backfired, also along with the medpack and Trauma Debuff from PvP the medpack is so little its almost neglible. One hit or crit just negated the entire medpack after the bubble goes down. Its rather simple to defeat the Undying Rage ability. Kite and wait until it wears off and go to town on a COMPLETELY defenseless Marauder.

 

Marauders are like Scrappers in City of Heroes. While they are able to do a lot of damage, they go down FAST. Thus a nerf to Undying Range would only make Marauders that much more weak against the ranged and high burst classes. Claiming this situational ability is game breaking or OP is just false. Marauders excell at ONE thing, 1v1. Thats it! We do not have good AoE, we do not have Stuns, our CC are Roots and we provide buffs to our group.

 

It does not need a Healing Debuff attached to prevent from medpacking. The Medpacks do not provide a game breaking amount of healing. If a team mate is being a TEAM player by healing them, you shouldn't blame the Marauder, blame your team for not locking down the healer.

[GrandMike]

He was responding to this:

 

So what?

 

Where healers weren't being discussed, medpacks were.

 

Pop quiz mike, whats the difference between a marauder popping his UR and getting healed, and a merc using his aoe knockback or aoe stun and getting healed?

 

Effectively, they accomplish the same thing. Focused dps is interupted so that healers can save someone.

 

Because you can leap back after KB and continue to kill teh healer.

 

AOE stun? You drunk?

 

Only one class has AoE stun, and, surprise surpirse, maruders get best AoE mez in teh game.

 

I like it when people say marauders/sentinels have no CC and utility when they have same amount of CC as most classes, and even more utility, along the best damage/best defence CDs/best mobility.

 

There, one post about cc even before i posted mine rofl (look up)

Edited March 16, 2012 by GrandMike

[artemsilenkov]

They are playing different game. Where are huge medpacks, nonstop insta pockets healers respawn just in place of dead, every ability has no GCD and killallthethingsin5seconds mara in the center with godmode spam.

LOL.

 

Guess that they didnt even try 50 level warzones where all the toons are pretty unstopable and unkillable.

 

Yesterday VoidStar with my tankosin ended with 0-0 'cos too much tanks and healers around and nobody couldn't kill anybody to reach tactical advancement to capture door. Was there any mara around? Don't know. My tankosin with 900 expertise didn't notice. 0 kills 0 deaths. Huge amount of absorb and huge amount of healing around.

It is time to look at healers guess. Trauma on high level geared warzones doesnt work. Nightmare. Nobody could do nothing. Rush, dps, hps, respawn try again.

Edited March 16, 2012 by artemsilenkov

[AGoldCrayon]

So what?

 

The point is he wasn't trolling, as you tried to paint him. Someone made a comment about how one can just pop a medpack after UR, he countered that anyone can pop a medpack. Talking about healers was not part of that exchange.

 

 

Because you can leap back after KB and continue to kill teh healer.

 

AOE stun? You drunk?

 

Only one class has AoE stun, and, surprise surpirse, maruders get best AoE mez in teh game.

 

I like it when people say marauders/sentinels have no CC and utility when they have same amount of CC as most classes, and even more utility, along the best damage/best defence CDs/best mobility.

 

There, one post about cc even before i posted mine rofl (look up)

 

Ok, whats stopping you from killing the healer when a marauder pops UR? Nothing. AOE stun was powertech, I mislabeled an ability. Still illustrates that all classes are designed with 'get them off me' abilities in mind. And mezz isn't a stun, it breaks on damage. Powertech aoe stun is a hard stun. And intimidating roar (our mezz) is really not much different than flashbang, except that its centered on the marauder, and flashbang is a ranged mezz.

 

Marauders have utility, but not the same type. Our utility comes mostly from party buffs, where as other classes utility comes from damage redirection like guarding, or forced movement relocation, such as pulls and knockbacks.

 

Still not going to respond to my earlier posts?

Edited March 16, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[artemsilenkov]

Yah, i wonder if most marauser players are so bad that they dont even know their own skills.

 

Certanly looks like it in WZs rofl.

 

It doesnt mean that those are NOT there

 

The problem is thats you dont even know maras skills and make wrong conclusion. No CC and almost no utility compare to other classes.

 

Long CD aoe stun gone after damage, talented slow, long CD slow, not insta and longstackable utility like predation or frenzy. Ouh yes, force choke, interruptable and making mara stunned also. Thats all. No force speed, no push, no pull, no spikes, no 4-6 seconds stun, no flash grenades. And know what? Mara must be in melee range to use so called "thats cc abilities" and prepare some rage before to do it. Compare it to dd sorc-oper-sin or you couldnt?

 

I've forgotten that mara could jump. It changes everything. Nerf me bro.

Edited March 16, 2012 by artemsilenkov

[artemsilenkov]

Really, its not true that marauders/sentinels can be healed while immune to damage? Talking about missinformation rofl

 

Which, that marauders/sentinels have no CC/utility? you suck at it lol

 

It seems you are one with problem with marauder/sentinel skills

 

And not just sentinel, but other classes skills too

 

Everyone is telling you the same things. In comparison mara is weaker in CC or survivalability than other classes being much harder to play. Stop being so ignorant. Reroll a mara and youll see bet 1000$.

 

4-6 sec stuns? AOE pushback? Pullback? Flash speed? Stealth? Roots? Cleanse? Evasion? Where are all thats stuff?

Something is here but in comparison not so powerfull. Best defence ablis? lol. Prepare a comparison. It was discussed here alot but you cant see.

 

and yes. Powerful utility you noticed need a long stackable resource (3-12 seconds and properly talented) and couldnt be casted on demand. As for other abils you mentioned you need to gain resource approximately 1-3 GCD. Except 2-3 spells on comparable long CD. Is it a surprise for you?

Edited March 16, 2012 by artemsilenkov

[MrXen]

Quick fix: while undying rage is active, on top of 99% damage reduction, add 99% healing reduction until the ability finishes. Done.

 

 

 

Mara's can still use it the same way, no mechanics are screwed up, and this way people can't abuse it to freeze all damage and get a health reset by a healer or medpac. I think everyone can agree this is fair.

[GrandMike]

Everyone is telling you the same things. In comparison mara is weaker in CC or survivalability than other classes being much harder to play. Stop being so ignorant. Reroll a mara and youll see bet 1000$.

 

Gimme 1000$.

 

4-6 sec stuns? AOE pushback? Pullback? Flash speed? Stealth? Roots? Cleanse? Evasion? Where are all thats stuff?

Something is here but in comparison not so powerfull. Best defence ablis? lol. Prepare a comparison. It was discussed here alot but you cant see.

 

All those skills are DISTRIBUTED among 7 other classes rofl

 

Cant believe the trolling of "i dont have skills of ALL 7 other classes combined therefore my CC suck" unbelievable rofl

 

and yes. Powerful utility you noticed need a long stackable resource (3-12 seconds and properly talented) and couldnt be casted on demand. As for other abils you mentioned you need to gain resource approximately 1-3 GCD. Except 2-3 spells on comparable long CD. Is it a surprise for you?

 

Aww, you have few equirements to use best utility ingame. I guess those are comletely useless, i mean WHOLE 3-12s, omgm its sooooo hard.

 

Tell you what, stick with arsenal/gunnery merc/commando and PvE.

[texoc]

I also play a marauder, so make that 3/3.

 

Truth is, without undying rage there would be no reason to play a marauder over a pyro PT or darkness assassin.

 

 

That's a video of whom I consider the best marauder in HoG atm (Torque) showing some duels at 9:40. We've fought plenty of times, and right now I'd say the win rate is pretty even (50/50) if he times everything right versus my pyro and sin in 1vs1s (which is where Marauders are supposed to excel). Without Undying Rage the win split would be closer to 80/20 in my favor. I don't even wan to imagine how it would be for marauders who are not as good as Torque.

 

 

sorry to destroy your illusion, but torque is just bad.

 

- bad use of cooldowns (usinf Bladeward to late thus eating 1-2 railshots)

- not using obfuscate vs a Pyrotech is fail!!! he didnt use it once against you!!!

- bad movement

- bad skill priority

- choking when the opponent has none or only 1 stack of dots is fail again!

 

 

he shoudlnt even come close to UR!!!! never ever against a Pyrotech!!!

[Deviss]

You can still root,stun and knock us back... Please tell me how 5 seconds of damage reduction while you are still capable of kiting us is somehow OP. Think of guarded by the force as a stun...except you can still kite us.

 

Would you rather give us a hard stun where we can keep you in place and continue to beat the crap out of you? Because I will gladly give up guarded by the force if BW gives me a hardstun and a knockback in its place.

 

Nah, you are missing the point. The problem with marauders is that at the moment they are better than juggernauts in almost every aspect. Juggernauts should in theory be more resilient than marauders - that is far from true, marauder's survival CD's are much, much better. I even would risk saying that immortal spec juggernaut got worse CD's. If marauder stacked normal defense stats with shield in his offhand, he would be better than juggernaunt in terms of survival. If you are saying that this is intended and that without those CD's you would be squishy... well, not sure if serious. What are juggernauts supposed to say? Sure, they wear heavy armor but still die like a damn flies.

 

Mobility (predation, vanish), insane sustained damage (most likely best in the game at this moment in time), 'bloodlust' buff for whole party, self healing (once again for whole party) - Marauder is just better than his other advanced class counterpart in almost every aspect. As for damage, the difference is colossal for single target sustained dps. Only thing related to damage that juggernaut is good at is spamming aoe smash in rage on all procs and doing hollow, useless dps.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Deviss

[Redmarx]

In comparison mara is weaker in CC or survivalability than other classes being much harder to play. Stop being so ignorant. Reroll a mara and youll see bet 1000$.

 

You need to give Grandmike $1000.

 

I play a marauder.

 

It is hands down the highest survivability class with the best defenses, and has decent CC and amazing utility with interrupts and unique frenzy buffs.

[AGoldCrayon]

Wait, I thought you were going to show me the talent that increases damage reduction for UR to 100%? Having trouble finding the talent that does it? Me too! Because it doesn't exist.

 

Whether I am good or not is purely subjective, I am posting in defense of my class because people are ignorant or misinformed, yourself being a leading example here.

 

If an entire enemy team is being CC'd by intimidating roar, it's that team that needs to L2P.

 

Many good ones are, yes. Not all of them.

Edited March 16, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[Deviss]

You need to give Grandmike $1000.

 

I play a marauder.

 

It is hands down the highest survivability class with the best defenses, and has decent CC and amazing utility with interrupts and unique frenzy buffs.

 

Exactly, that is what makes this class so good for solo combat. In 1v1 he is just unkillable. Few days ago I did warzone on my fresh level 50 sentinel with 12k HP. I attempted to capture side base on civil war and just ***** one guy who was defending that base (oh, he was a war hero btw, so he probably had full BM gear...).

Edited March 16, 2012 by Deviss

[BrutalPain]

Quick fix: while undying rage is active, on top of 99% damage reduction, add 99% healing reduction until the ability finishes. Done.

 

 

 

Mara's can still use it the same way, no mechanics are screwed up, and this way people can't abuse it to freeze all damage and get a health reset by a healer or medpac. I think everyone can agree this is fair.

 

I dont agree. This is not fair.

[artemsilenkov]

Exactly, that is what makes this class so good for solo combat. In 1v1 he is just unkillable. Few days ago I did warzone on my fresh level 50 sentinel with 12k HP. I attempted to capture side base on civil war and just ***** one guy who was defending that base (oh, he was a war hero btw, so he probably had full BM gear...).

 

+1

Lets then abstract to zerg realities full of CC and range dds.

[GrandMike]

+1

Lets then abstract to zerg realities full of CC and range dds.

 

Zerg realities?

 

Do you see open world PvP with zergs?

 

Irrelevant, WZs are small skirmishes, and that will be dominant form of PvP for a loooooong time, theres NO ETA for Ilum 3.0

 

So you have to come back to ingame reality not some hypothetical zerg situations.

Edited March 16, 2012 by GrandMike

[artemsilenkov]

Keeeep digging

 

"im squishy" - guess what - everyone is, and you are LESS squshy than TANKS AND have BEST damge

 

How could one be less squishy than huge HP armored debuff machine with shield offhand? Oh Lord. My tankosin is unkillable in comparison with mara. He is unkillable ALL THE TIME but not within 5 seconds buff that consumed 50% of health before.

 

And of course PURE dd MUST have more damage than hybrid.

and tank must be tank - defence debuff and do a crap of dd. What are you talking about?

[AGoldCrayon]

Reading comprehension, you lack it. It doesn't increase damage reduction to 100% with undying rage. It simply reduces overall damage to your character. It doesn't combine with undying rage.

 

Rage spec:

http://www.torhead.com/ability/aCupUNO/undying

 

Winner winner chicken dinner. Prime example of how I'm trying to stop the misinformation. Shi-cho form and the damage reduction from Undying are not additive with UR. As a rage marauder myself, I can personally attest to still taking damage when using UR. Foot in mouth much mike?

Edited March 16, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[GrandMike]

Reading comprehension, you lack it. It doesn't increase damage reduction to 100% with undying rage. It simply reduces overall damage to your character. It doesn't combine with undying rage.

 

Rage spec:

http://www.torhead.com/ability/aCupUNO/undying

 

Ok, 20 000 people that focus you can still kill you. Wooosh

Edited March 16, 2012 by GrandMike

[AGoldCrayon]

Ok, 20 000 people can still kill you. Wooosh

 

8 people can still kill you, since UR only lasts 5 seconds. And since we're talking about team play here, some of those people can break off and interrupt the healer, or CC him. Surprise surprise. Humble pie is a bit bitter isn't it?

Edited March 16, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[KonohaFlash]

Ok, 20 000 people that focus you can still kill you. Wooosh

 

I still don't understand this mentality. 5 seconds. How can you not stun or god forbid have your teammate stun?

 

I don't think there has EVER been a time that I have used undying rage and not been instantly been stunned and then killed after, unless my force cloak was up.

 

Maybe I'm just playing against people who know what they're doing.

Edited March 16, 2012 by KonohaFlash

[GrandMike]

8 people can still kill you, since UR only lasts 5 seconds. And since we're talking about team play here, some of those people can break off and interrupt the healer, or CC him. Surprise surprise. Humble pie is a bit bitter isn't it?

 

It irrelevant for the skill. What IS relevant that you live 9s longear than ANY class except assasin.

 

I still don't understand this mentality. 5 seconds. How can you not stun or god forbid have your teammate stun?

 

I don't think there has EVER been a time that I have used undying rage and not been instantly been stunned and then killed after, unless my force cloak was up.

 

Maybe I'm just playing against people who know what they're doing.

 

Riiiiiiight. But its pretty irrelevant, other classes are equally squishy, dont have such skills, have comparable CC, therefore marauders also dont need such skills. Or all other classes need such skills. However you like it. End of.

Edited March 16, 2012 by GrandMike

[KonohaFlash]

It irrelevant for the skill. What IS relevant that you live 9s longear than ANY class except assasin.

 

9 seconds if your force cloak isn't on cooldown maybe. I don't know where you're pulling this 9 second from.

 

Tell me what exactly you want to be done to undying rage, or Marauders alltogether. I would love to hear what you have to say.

 

Riiiiiiight. But its pretty irrelevant, other classes are equally squishy, dont have such skills, have comparable CC, therefore marauders also dont need such skills. Or all other classes need such skills. However you like it. End of.

 

Give marauders force shroud and I would glady part ways with undying rage.

Edited March 16, 2012 by KonohaFlash

[AGoldCrayon]

It irrelevant for the skill. What IS relevant that you live 9s longear than ANY class except assasin.

 

Wrong. What it means is that your damage reduction over a 5 second period and a separate 4 second period is effectively 100%. I won't nit pick over the 1% in the 5 second period for the moment. edit: in a single spec. Need I remind you not all marauders are annihilate?

 

If you do not see the nuance there, and I'll bet you don't, I'll explain it further. During the rest of any focus fire, a marauder will still die faster than a tank. In the over all period of time, a tank will still live longer than a marauder. It is just 2 small periods of time where the marauder will be taking less damage than a tank.

Edited March 16, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[GrandMike]

9 seconds if your force cloak isn't on cooldown maybe. I don't know where you're pulling this 9 second from.

 

90/45 CDs. 9 seconds of damage immunity every 90s (with stealth inluded) with additional 4 every 45s with stealth included

 

Give marauders force shroud and I would glady part ways with undying rage.

 

Suuuure, swap one immunity for the other rofl.

 

Why dont we give force shroud to EVERY class then, eh? They are certanly NOT less squishy than marauder.

 

Tell me what exactly you want to be done to undying rage, or Marauders alltogether. I would love to hear what you have to say.

 

Undying rage - proc based - you have 0 < x < 50% chance to negate 99% damage. Smae with assassin immunity, same with merc intrrupt immunity/pushback reduct

Force cloak talent - makes you undetectable in stealth

Edited March 16, 2012 by GrandMike