Ozzone Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 theres also a combination of 4 other ppl as well wz isnt 4 ppl I never said it was, but then the other side has 4 people also. Unless they are an 8 group premade (2 teams of 4 coordinating in vent). The other 4 are not coordinating anything and our 4 aren't either. My whole point was that people are trying to make this a black/white situation when it's not. Like I said before, other factors are important. Simply saying that 2 tanks/2 healers are godmode is incorrect if, and only if, the other side doesn't know how to strategize around it. Are they tough to beat? Yes. Impossible? No - especially if beating them isn't just trying to kill them. Take this situation, where it is almost impossible and that's in Alderaan. If 2 tanks/2 healers are guarding middle, for example, then yes it will be almost impossible to kill them (which you almost have to do unless they are stupid and 1) get too far from node and can't get back in time to stop a cap or 2) get separated from each other where range comes into play. If they are smart, they stay within range of each other and chances are if they are a 4-some, they are that smart. Again, one more time, 2 tanks/2 healers staying together is not the norm, it's the exception from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkthsith Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I never said it was, but then the other side has 4 people also. Unless they are an 8 group premade (2 teams of 4 coordinating in vent). The other 4 are not coordinating anything and our 4 aren't either. My whole point was that people are trying to make this a black/white situation when it's not. Like I said before, other factors are important. Simply saying that 2 tanks/2 healers are godmode is incorrect if, and only if, the other side doesn't know how to strategize around it. Are they tough to beat? Yes. Impossible? No - especially if beating them isn't just trying to kill them. Take this situation, where it is almost impossible and that's in Alderaan. If 2 tanks/2 healers are guarding middle, for example, then yes it will be almost impossible to kill them (which you almost have to do unless they are stupid and 1) get too far from node and can't get back in time to stop a cap or 2) get separated from each other where range comes into play. If they are smart, they stay within range of each other and chances are if they are a 4-some, they are that smart. Again, one more time, 2 tanks/2 healers staying together is not the norm, it's the exception from my experience. you act like they have to hold hands when they dont sure the healer loses guard but it doesnt mean the healer will be killed especially a commando healer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrybirdz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Sugarray Joined: Oct 2010 Yesterday , 04:33 AM Quote: Originally Posted by EternalFinality I'll repeat, there's 4 people. Two tanks, two healers. What group combination of 4 people are you proposing to attack this? Also, the two tanks are not just standing there. They have stuns, roots, interrupts, knockbacks, and CCs of their own, and they are using it to protect their healers. "Stun one focus the other" is the most worthless theorycrafting nonsense since "knockback to separate." It's completely disconnected from the reality of what actually happens. Alright, you cant beat them. Unsub please. So when all these people unsub and you wind up with lil to no one else to play this game with what exactly do you do when this game dies a horrible death ?. Due to your Incompetence and pitiful answer !. Edited March 12, 2012 by angrybirdz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeez Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 My only complaint about juggs and mauraders is that it seems once they "start a move" you cant intterupt, push, CC, knockback anything until the animation goes off completely. But you can to just about every other class. Seems odd to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 As someone who plays a tank and who's best friend that plays with him is a healer, I can tell you that this complaint falls into the same category as most other imbalance complaints. It isn't as bad as you make it sound. Is it difficult and sometimes impossible to kill a tank/healer? Yes. Is that bluntly direct approach the best strategy to employ? No. I am not saying I'm the best tank, but I'm a good one. Smart players coordinate and dismantle pretty well in the right conditions. It might help you to try playing a tank in pvp. I am not saying l2p, and I realize you probably won't be able to play a tank at the level cap, but even playing in the 10-49 bracket a bit might open your eyes to the other side and make the weaknesses of the combination more apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revotz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Played against a few teams like this and beat them a number of times because they can't kill fast enough to take an objective. Also a PT/VG with 6s CD riot strike can take any healer out of a fight by himself. It doesn't matter that the healer is guarded because the healer simply gets interrupted too often to do any worthwhile healing. With a VG/PT on one healer you focus the other first and it's GG. 1 healer on your side can heal through 2 tank DPS without a problem. The team I would use is a merc/commando healer, PT/VG ironfist build to guard said healer and interrupt 1 of the enemy healers, mara/sent DPS and jugg/guardian DPS (lots of interupts and gap closers) to kill the other healer. While assassin tanks do good damage it is HEAVILY mitigated by armor as they have no armor penetration at all. A darkness assassin can't kill heavy armor targets at all. Merc healers are the bane of their existence. They can, however, destroy sages and sorcs. 1 healer 1 tank and 2 DPS is generally a much better option in a 4v4 situation. 2 tanks can't kill a guarded healer, period. 1 tank can keep a healer busy enough that 2 DPS can wreck the other healer. Thats true, in a deathmatch scenario, but for doing objectives in warzones I dont think so. 2 tanks and 2 healrs can defend a adoor forever, or a node. I had a void the other day when we faced 1 tank who was standing right next to the door and wouldnt move with 3 healers...we couldnt kill anyone of them..just impossible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilomax Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Personally I think they gave tanks too much dmg mitigation and decent dmg as a whole, pot healer or not they are too tough to bring down and take too many dps sources to start bypassing the insane armour. All I ever see while leveling my noobs is tank this tank that from both sides, more so empire. Why? Just cannot barely kill them 1 on 1 or 2 v 1. Alot of dps classes do have afew attacks that bypass all the armour but not many either use these skills or talent because they prefer more better builds for dealing with things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Personally I think they gave tanks too much dmg mitigation and decent dmg as a whole, pot healer or not they are too tough to bring down and take too many dps sources to start bypassing the insane armour. All I ever see while leveling my noobs is tank this tank that from both sides, more so empire. Why? Just cannot barely kill them 1 on 1 or 2 v 1. Alot of dps classes do have afew attacks that bypass all the armour but not many either use these skills or talent because they prefer more better builds for dealing with things. I have 450 expertise. My mitigation from armor is 45% The operative's abilities all bypass the shield/defense chances with the exception of the free auto attack and overload shot. Many sniper and BH abilities are energy or tech based, which are also not on the shield/defense table. My hardest hitting move might crit for 2k if the target i'm attacking doesn't have much expertise. I'm not saying you're wrong, I guess I'm just saying that my gear is pretty good (mostly champion with some centurion to fill it out) and that's what I'm working with. Maybe those incremental improvements to battlemasters would give me much high mitigation and damage? I doubt it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPagano Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I had a void the other day when we faced 1 tank who was standing right next to the door and wouldnt move with 3 healers...we couldnt kill anyone of them..just impossible... How many of you were attacking them? I just wonder what the other door looked like. Half of the defending team was at one door, and 75% of that group was healers. If the other door was tanks and healers, then at best they could hold you on defense but they shouldn't be able to take a node on offense without any dps. If the other door was more DPS classes, your team should be able to coordinate something against them with more success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thats true, in a deathmatch scenario, but for doing objectives in warzones I dont think so. 2 tanks and 2 healrs can defend a adoor forever, or a node. I had a void the other day when we faced 1 tank who was standing right next to the door and wouldnt move with 3 healers...we couldnt kill anyone of them..just impossible... While you can't kill them, the reverse is also true. So in Voidstar you'd just be at a stalemate (2 tank + 2 healer isn't breaking through 1 tank + 1 heal + 2 DPS either). In Alderran, objectives do not magically start out being captured and you almost always need to kill somebody to get the objectives, so again the worst scenario is both side can't kill each other so nothing ever gets capped. Usually the side who is totally incapable of killing anyone will eventually lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdownsb Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 It's a 4some. Also, some tanks have an ability that lets them jump not only to their foes, but their allies. So the knockback did nothing. "Knockback to separate" is the crappiest theorycraft technique of all. I've never seen it work successfully against competent people. The way you do it is to have a Marauder pressure one healer and 2 burst DPS open on the other. The tanks are annoying but there isn't much you can do other then dump your stuns on them and try to burst one of the healers. Which actually isn't that difficult if for instance two operatives open on one healer and the other healer can't cross heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 People in this thread seem to be thinking under the false premise that you CANNOT interrupt or CANNOT CC or CANNOT separate players. What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highstandard Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I would suggest CC, but I guess that is not a part of your damage ''rotation'' I lol'd Also, its very, very true. I see 2+ healers healing eachother go down all the time with good cc and pressure. There are a lot of people who didn't play WoW arena and don't know about hard swaps and end up coming to the forums to complain about what they cant kill with just button mashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 My mitigation from armor is 45% The operative's ... Medium armor with 45% mitigation? Do different classes get different values from armor? I don't play any alts so I dunno... But I have a BH with full rakata with modded bracer / belt / helm with Reflex Armoring 25 and my mitigation is like 31% or 34% or something, I dont remember at the moment. 45% seems pretty nice for an operative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I have 450 expertise. My mitigation from armor is 45% The operative's abilities all bypass the shield/defense chances with the exception of the free auto attack and overload shot. Many sniper and BH abilities are energy or tech based, which are also not on the shield/defense table. My hardest hitting move might crit for 2k if the target i'm attacking doesn't have much expertise. I'm not saying you're wrong, I guess I'm just saying that my gear is pretty good (mostly champion with some centurion to fill it out) and that's what I'm working with. Maybe those incremental improvements to battlemasters would give me much high mitigation and damage? I doubt it, though. As a sniper, i take exception to that. very few of ou r attacks are off the shield table. You're confusing attack types (ranged/melee/tech/force) with damage types (kinetic, energy, internal, elemental). ALL ranged/melee attacks can be defended against (dodge/deflect/etc), regardless of their damage type. They can also be Shielded/Absorbed, and unless they deal elemental or internal damage, are also further mitigated by armor. Tech and Force attacks can still be defended against (in this case, via resists, which players dont get a base value of but can gain through items or buffs), but they ignore shields completely. Again, they are mitigated by armor unless they inflict elemental or internal damage. As a sniper, u nless you're Lethality (Dirty FIghting for Smugglers), you have two abilities that deal elemental or internal damage - corrosive dart and orbital strike. Thats it. Everything else a non-lethality sniper fires can be Defended (dodge/parry), Shielded, AND is mitigated by armor. Firing at a tank is like firing at a starship, for most s nipers. Lethality/Dirty fighting use a lot of tech attacks that deal internal damage (about... 50%), but are conversely completely neutered by a healer who is awake on the enemy team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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