DPS Juggernaut: Quinn or Pierce?

[thewatcheruatu]

I don't really want to get into the min-max specifics of builds or a discussion of why mine probably sucks. At level 49, I've got 21 points into Rage and 17 in Vengeance and I use Shien form exclusively (so obviously, I didn't take anything in the Rage tree that requires the use of Shii-Cho). The reason I do it this way is because I find it to be fun and, logically, it made sense to me as I was leveling. Also, I've done all right in warzones with this build.

 

Anyway, I thought maybe I could get some feedback from other DPS Juggernauts about which companion they prefer to use between the two mentioned in the thread title.

 

I've been running with Pierce ever since I picked him up, and I'd classify him as an okay tank. I've usually got to do a fair amount of work to keep him alive in tougher encounters, using my interrupts, crowd control, even aggro trading. Against a lot of elites, it's usually a given he's going to die, but not before we whittle down the mob's health enough for me to quickly finish it off.

 

Lately, I've been trying to kit him out in shield/absorption gear, and I don't know if that is really the best, but I haven't noticed much difference, honestly, from when I used to give him more +defense gear.

 

Anyway, I really like playing with Pierce, because it means a little less thinking for me about my own health. He's tough enough to typically stay alive (even if I end up having to heal him from near death a lot of the time) and he's not bad at drawing aggro, which means my character is usually pretty much untouched at the end of a fight.

 

Last night, however, I tried to fight the boss in the Baras's Lair quest, and just simply could not do it with Pierce. Unfortunately, I'd sort of stopped using Quinn a long time ago, so I haven't kept his gear in very good condition. This morning I bettered Quinn's gear situation and took him out for a test drive, to see how he performs at level 49.

 

Generally speaking, I do better with Pierce, I think. My Juggernaut can't stand up to much damage at all, so even with Quinn's DPS abilities disabled and with him in Med Watch mode, I can't fight an elite mob without having to burn my Saber Ward, Endure Pain, and maybe a medpack.

 

Where I think Quinn maybe has a slight advantage is in situations where I might have to fight two Strong rated mobs at once. Because that combination often tears Pierce up, but with Quinn's heals and my damage mitigation cooldowns, I can usually deal with that pretty handily.

 

Anyway, I could see both companions being useful for different kinds of fights. As a rule, though, I sort of prefer Pierce.

[WarSiren]

I use Vette mainly, you can really use any companion you like just Keep either 2V or Quinn geared up (I say 2V because I hate Quinn, and 2V actually heals more consistently in my findings if geared.) and bring them out when needed other than that play with the companion you like best.

[Taybul]

Quinn CC's and heals thus minimizing your downtime recovering before the next battle. He's all-around useful if you're going to be DPSing. I tried using Pierce and even Broonmark as tanks (geared in Columi/Rakata too) and they're still pretty bad. They get chewed up too easily by Ilum elites.

[Joefjr]

Quinn CC's and heals thus minimizing your downtime recovering before the next battle. He's all-around useful if you're going to be DPSing. I tried using Pierce and even Broonmark as tanks (geared in Columi/Rakata too) and they're still pretty bad. They get chewed up too easily by Ilum elites.

 

 

 

They get eaten alive because their "stance" has no built in armor increase so they have crap for damage reduction.

[thewatcheruatu]

I use Vette mainly, you can really use any companion you like just Keep either 2V or Quinn geared up (I say 2V because I hate Quinn, and 2V actually heals more consistently in my findings if geared.) and bring them out when needed other than that play with the companion you like best.

Wait a second...neither of those was an option!

 

I can't run with a DPS companion. That's a recipe for disaster with my build and the way I play.

 

 

They get eaten alive because their "stance" has no built in armor increase so they have crap for damage reduction.

 

I guess that's why I've been mostly stacking +shield/+absorption on Pierce. But yeah, the funny thing is he actually has a lower armor rating than my Juggernaut (a lot more health, though), because where my Juggernaut often is kitted out with blue item modifications, I've been using greens modifications for my companions. Probably kind of a stupid tack if you want your companion to tank for you, but I've been doing okay.

Edited March 8, 2012 by thewatcheruatu

[thewatcheruatu]

Oh, related question. How are you all gearing Quinn? +Crit rating/+Surge?

[coldserpent]

Oh, related question. How are you all gearing Quinn? +Crit rating/+Surge?

 

I actually build Broonmark and Pierce for damage, throwing them in their respective damage stances when I'm utilizing them. Crit/Surge/Power. I have no mods on any of my companions(or myself for that matter) involving shield absorption/defense.

 

For Quinn, I go Power/Crit rating with mods/enhancements.

 

The only companion I don't use is the droid. Even as a hybrid Vengeance/Rage spec, I don't rely on Quinn to carry me constantly through fights.

[lordofdamornin]

Geared to the hilt, Jaesa and Vette both last just about as long as our *tank* companions do, and do a lot more damage to boot.

 

You made mention, OP, of *how you like to play.* That's great and all, but some ways just don't work that well, no matter what companion you bring.

 

Might want to try bringing a real-life companion, if you'll forgive the pun. I think that would make *playing the way you want to* work a lot better.

 

I'm not trying to be condescending, I just don't know exactly what *way* you like to play, so I'm unsure how to best answer your question.

 

Riôt

[thewatcheruatu]

Geared to the hilt, Jaesa and Vette both last just about as long as our *tank* companions do, and do a lot more damage to boot.

 

You made mention, OP, of *how you like to play.* That's great and all, but some ways just don't work that well, no matter what companion you bring.

 

Might want to try bringing a real-life companion, if you'll forgive the pun. I think that would make *playing the way you want to* work a lot better.

 

I'm not trying to be condescending, I just don't know exactly what *way* you like to play, so I'm unsure how to best answer your question.

 

Riôt

 

I actually did bring a real life companion to help me kill that boss. I knew I'd never do it on my own. First time I've had to do that in this game. As I said, I really haven't had trouble with any other boss, either in a class quest or world quest, and I'm usually a bit underleveled for everything.

 

The "way" I like to play is that I don't subscribe to there being one or two viable specs for a class. I build a spec that carries the abilities and specializations that I want, even if they're not necessarily the most uber for solo PvE.

 

I also don't like to have to watch my health too closely, which is why I like to go with a tank companion. Because the annoying thing about this game is that if you die, your companion dies. But if your companion dies, you don't die. So my priority is making sure I have the freedom to go to town with DPS abilities and not worry about popping off my defensive cooldowns too often.

 

I also like to exclusively gear myself out in items that favor strength heavily over endurance. So I don't have a lot of HP. I'm in Shien form all the time, since on top of the billions of abilities I'm already using, I just don't feel like stance dancing, but it does mean that I'm forfeiting some defense rating.

 

Anyway, just a few examples of what I meant. I wasn't asking, by the way, for anybody to tell me how to play the game. Just asking what kind of mileage other DPS Juggernauts get with their companions. It actually almost didn't occur to me that people would be using Vette and Jaesa, since I haven't have much success with them unless I'm overleveled for whatever I'm doing.

[Achraya]

I outfitted both Quinn and Pierce as I leveled, as they were the two I felt suited me/my playstyle best. I generally stuck to Quinn though, and have only now begun to really use Pierce (being 50 and doing dailies) I just find that using Quinn helps with 'unforseen' issues. I can tank fairly well and rotate cooldowns like it's my job, so having someone tossing out heals was, for me, all I needed to get by.

[Veeius]

2vr8 for 1 simple reason:

 

he never gains affection, and therefore his missions are never better than no affection at all. Whomever you have with you can't do missions - so why take someone who has affection for you when they could be doing missions for you?

 

2vr8, when geared, is a competent healer, well, as competent as quinn (the backstabbing squirrel).

[Joefjr]

2vr8 for 1 simple reason:

 

he never gains affection, and therefore his missions are never better than no affection at all. Whomever you have with you can't do missions - so why take someone who has affection for you when they could be doing missions for you?

 

2vr8, when geared, is a competent healer, well, as competent as quinn (the backstabbing squirrel).

 

Actually Quinn is a better healer. The droid can't equip a MH weapon so that is A LOT of Tech power, cunning, and other stats you are missing out on.

[thewatcheruatu]

Actually Quinn is a better healer. The droid can't equip a MH weapon so that is A LOT of Tech power, cunning, and other stats you are missing out on.

 

My understanding, as well, is that Toovee doesn't help much in the damage category, whereas Quinn can actually kill some stuff in my experience.

[Vid-szhite]

DPS Juggernaut: Quinn or Pierce?

 

Vette.

 

Quinn won't heal you enough to stop downtime from happening, can't handle his own aggro, and makes fights take forever. He's good at first, but he becomes very useless late game.

 

Pierce does crap damage and will cause downtime by taunting everything.

 

Vette stays far back enough that she doesn't pull more aggro than she can handle, she can handle her own aggro just fine, and kills things super quick. We have plenty of armor, so we have really no need for a tank companion.

[Joefjr]

I have zero down time on my DPS Jug doing my 50 Dailys when i have Quinn in his DPS stance.

 

 

Something to keep in mind is that Quinn can also keep them pesky snares and DoT's off you. NPC DoT over all needs to be nerfed some. Most of them do way to much damage.

[thewatcheruatu]

Vette.

 

Quinn won't heal you enough to stop downtime from happening, can't handle his own aggro, and makes fights take forever. He's good at first, but he becomes very useless late game.

 

I guess I need to gear up Vette and see how she performs.

 

Though with that said, I don't have a whole lot of downtime with Quinn. Assuming I don't die, his heals usually take care of me well enough I don't have to do a lot of hatred channeling after a fight.

 

On this topic, is there any reason that I can't simply equip Quinn and Vette in the same gear? That is, just strip Quinn down when I don't need him and put all of his gear onto Vette?

Edited March 11, 2012 by thewatcheruatu

[unclekaula]

I'm a DPS jug and I use quinn for my dailies/2man heroics. Its a little ridiculous at 50 to use anything but him UNLESS you're in a group with a healer. Seriously, please give an explanation why you wouldnt be using him or 2v if you're soloing.

 

There is 0 downtime.

 

my companions:

Vette half way geared- fine if there is a bunch of trash mobs

Quinn 100% end game geared crit/surge - good for everything. can solo standard mobs. no downtime. main heal does well over 1k+ and crits for over 2.

pierce full centurian (i know bad) for def - cant solo a light bulb

jaesa full centurian (i know bad) for crit/power - interesting comments but cant do anywhere near the dmg of vette

2v not geared dont use

broonmark have dps ojs but geared in the 40s - dont use (want to though, just dont know why I would)

 

 

I know you said you dont want any comments on how to play/your build, but you should fool around a bit with your spec. Give a full rage, full veng, or full immortal with dps gear specs a few days chance.

Edited March 11, 2012 by unclekaula

[unclekaula]

 

On this topic, is there any reason that I can't simply equip Quinn and Vette in the same gear? That is, just strip Quinn down when I don't need him and put all of his gear onto Vette?

 

I did it for a while myself, I dont see anything wrong with it.

 

You can also store temp / alt role gear on your broonmark...

[Elyx]

Vette.

 

Quinn won't heal you enough to stop downtime from happening, can't handle his own aggro, and makes fights take forever. He's good at first, but he becomes very useless late game.

 

 

False. Im a full Venge build, Full DPS geared (str over endurance when i can) and regularly use Quinn. he has the capacity to offtank an elite long enough for me to down a silver and a few normals, and keep us both alive. And I'm not level cap yet either, so no rakata gear to outlevel the mobs in hashing on. these are all on level mobs (or one below at the most).

 

On normal pulls, I almost never have to stop and heal. downtime is NONE. If you have downtime with Quinn, then you are either not gearing him correctly, or aren't playing to his strengths. And this isn't a bad thing....I've found often that most people adapt to a certain playstyle with their chosen companions and are comfortable with that.

 

On a side note. leveling a new Jugg, and using solely Vette. And there is a NOTICEABLE difference in downtime with Vette. but only in the mid-20's, so this could change as I level.

 

NOTE: Could everyone who's posting please list their spec as well? far too often i read into these threads, where people are telling me they never need heals, and i find out that they are immortal specced with defense gear up the arse. PLEASE list your spec...It's fine if your immortal, or venge, or rage, or whatever. but the OP is asking about DPS specs, so it's important to know if your set up for tanking or squishy DPS.

 

But for the OP: I roll with Quinn. im sure pierce could work. but sounds like for your playsyle Quinn may work better. i'd suggest a mix of crit and surge. Can't give you his stats now (at work), but for me i keep it basic...if the cunning is an improvement over the old piece, i upgrade it. Haven't focused on either solely, and hes a healing machine.

 

Ran a heroic area with a maurader friend of mine yesterday with 1 quinn's out....our health didn't even dip. ran Aithiss the other day with my younger Jugg and 2 other melee (jugg tank and assassin), with the tanks Quinn healing...went pretty darned smooth. Seemed like they were experienced players as well though, that can make a difference.

 

But Quinn's healing not keeping up? hardly. he's not not a astronaut, but he can sure fly if he needs to

Edited March 11, 2012 by Elyx

[Elyx]

I guess I need to gear up Vette and see how she performs.

 

Though with that said, I don't have a whole lot of downtime with Quinn. Assuming I don't die, his heals usually take care of me well enough I don't have to do a lot of hatred channeling after a fight.

 

On this topic, is there any reason that I can't simply equip Quinn and Vette in the same gear? That is, just strip Quinn down when I don't need him and put all of his gear onto Vette?

 

make sure you read my post above. on your other question, yes you can switch gear back and forth. their stats needs are almost identical. But honestly, I'd go with Quinn. if you want tips on using him to his strengths, holler. i got him fine tuned

[lordofdamornin]

You make a good point about spec, Elyx. My opinions, per spec;

 

As Rage: Quinn or Jaesa. Jaesa beats Vette here because she doesn't have grenades that pull 1-2 mobs away from you just as your Smash stacks are ready. The timing is comical, really. Jaesa also beats the two tanks because (as I mentioned before) she can last almost as long as they can, while doing more damage. When I say almost, I mean it's a difference of 1 global, in my experience.

 

As Immortal: Quinn for Jedi Master Averron, Vette or Jaesa for everything else. I like Jaesa's personality and look better (especially since she has a sexy Cyan crystal now), but Vette is actually better. As Immortal, her grenades do nothing but blow stuff up faster.

 

As Vengeance: See Rage.

 

Any Juggernaut that claims that they have *zero* downtime as Rage or Vengeance while using Quinn is exaggerating - his heals aren't that powerful. You can make this claim as Immortal, though.

 

OP - it's your $15, play how you want. It sounds to me though, that you should probably go Immortal, grab a shield generator, put yourself into Soresu form, and use Quinn, Vette, or Jaesa. Otherwise, you're giving yourself a long row to hoe.

 

So, to directly answer your companion choice question, now that I have more information:

 

If I were to level a (dps) Juggernaut using a (no offense intended) suboptimal set of spec and playstyle choices, who would I use?

 

Quinn. Full time.

 

Riôt

Edited March 11, 2012 by lordofdamornin

[thewatcheruatu]

Thanks for all the information. Next time I'm in game I'm going to work on seriously attending to Quinn's gear and see how it works out.

 

I recognize that my spec may be suboptimal for PvE--it's probably actually more of a PvP spec. Though with that said, I've done all right with it in PvE...even using Pierce, who everybody else seems to hate.

[DarthWalt]

Pierce is a tank/Rdps. I dont like using tank comp without being able to heal them.

 

 

That being said use quinn.

[Joefjr]

You make a good point about spec, Elyx. My opinions, per spec;

 

As Rage: Quinn or Jaesa. Jaesa beats Vette here because she doesn't have grenades that pull 1-2 mobs away from you just as your Smash stacks are ready. The timing is comical, really. Jaesa also beats the two tanks because (as I mentioned before) she can last almost as long as they can, while doing more damage. When I say almost, I mean it's a difference of 1 global, in my experience.

 

As Immortal: Quinn for Jedi Master Averron, Vette or Jaesa for everything else. I like Jaesa's personality and look better (especially since she has a sexy Cyan crystal now), but Vette is actually better. As Immortal, her grenades do nothing but blow stuff up faster.

 

As Vengeance: See Rage.

 

Any Juggernaut that claims that they have *zero* downtime as Rage or Vengeance while using Quinn is exaggerating - his heals aren't that powerful. You can make this claim as Immortal, though.

 

OP - it's your $15, play how you want. It sounds to me though, that you should probably go Immortal, grab a shield generator, put yourself into Soresu form, and use Quinn, Vette, or Jaesa. Otherwise, you're giving yourself a long row to hoe.

 

So, to directly answer your companion choice question, now that I have more information:

 

If I were to level a (dps) Juggernaut using a (no offense intended) suboptimal set of spec and playstyle choices, who would I use?

 

Quinn. Full time.

 

Riôt

 

 

You must not be gearing Quinn very well then, i can do all my 50 dailys as Veng and never have any down time with Quinn in his DPS stance.

 

Some points on gearing Quinn...

 

Alacrity is crap DON'T get it, it only affects one if his heals and it has a CD so it is wasted.

 

Power>Crit/Surge

 

 

The reason why you want power over Crit/Surge is being a companion they have no talents, so they have nothing boosting their heals at all.

 

Crit gives them a chance to heal more and with them having no talents all the crit they have is from gear and raw stats so it is very low.

 

Surge is only good for players who have talents that boost the crit chance by a lot for their primary skills.

 

Power increases all the healing and Damage they do not just some of it. With all his heals having a CD its better for them all to heal you for more than for them all to heal you for less and RNG picks when they can crit.

 

 

 

Also make sure to turn off his Carbonized Stream this ability is not instant cast its channeled and he LOVES using it all the time. He is a lot better healer with it off.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Joefjr

[JKhayos]

I'm throwing the BS flag on the idea that Quinn can't heal you enough to prevent downtime. He will and does, hence I have him out. I'm not sure what other people are doing with their Quinn, but his heals are sufficient for me to chainpull, and I'm a level 35 Vengeance. Vette is not an option, as her sarcastic remarks are unwanted, and Jaesa is cool but I'm doing plenty of DPS and what I'm lacking are heals.

 

I wasn't impressed with Pierce dropping like a rock from day 1. It's very sad, because I'd rather romance him at this point, but he's utterly useless to me as a tank.