What's with the fascination

[Sarfux]

What's with the fascination with some people about endgame? Do they just expect a game to have everything in it all the time no matter what?

 

With me, I would rather take a solid, fun, enjoyable, amazing leveling experience levels 1-50 than to rush to 50 and be told, like in other games, "lol bro...the game starts at max level" With this game it doesn't start at max level nor should any game "start" at max level. It starts the minute you login as it should. BioWare did a great thing bringing the leveling experience back into mmos.

 

Pessimists - state why you feel you are negative and that things aren't coming and why you disapprove of these "endgames" an mmo MUST have.

 

Optimists - state why you fell you are positive about the things that are coming and why you are having fun with the leveling experience.

 

What do these hardcore rush to 50 players or people that complain about "no endgame" want to be able to do at endgame... everything that has a beginning..has an end

[Annedromeda]

I just take the game as it is - I only play on weekend mornings till noon or so, and thats me done for the week. I don't have the time to prioritise worrying over a game, which is something that is meant to bring me pleasure. I use what they give me, and don't worry about what they don't. Endgame? Pffft, I always kind of put off getting to top level anyway because I dread what comes after sometimes, so I'm putting off getting any of my toons to 50. I'm also trying to think about which one I want at 50 first, but my BH is the closest. And this is why I try not to worry about it. Trivial stuff like this really shouldn't be worried about in my mind.

[TapVallian]

I agree. If a game only begins at max level, then it wasn't much of a game in the first place.

 

"the journey is half the fun" as they say.

 

I am very happy with the leveling experience in this game. Even after finally getting to 50 I still have just as much fun logging in a mid level alt or starting a new one from level 1.

 

Very few games have been fun in the say level 1-20 ish ranges once you have reached max level.

[System_TOR]

Been leveling since December 13th, 350+ levels later I'm still enjoying leveling, although it will soon be over and then "My" Chapter 2 begins. Edited March 8, 2012 by System_TOR

[AJediKnight]

I agree. If a game only begins at max level, then it wasn't much of a game in the first place.

 

"the journey is half the fun" as they say.

 

That simply isn't true, even if people like you repeat it a thousand times a day. The fact of the matter is that with MMOs, a lot of people roll just a main, and that's it. A handful more put together 2-3 max level characters. Very rare is the bird who does more than that... and nothing in TOR is going to change that fact.

 

When you talk about what endgames in themeparks are like -- a pile of dailies, gear grinds, raids, etc. -- there is little time to work on more than 2-3 characters simultaneously (and if you're a PvPer on server where your faction stinks, then good luck even finishing one set of dailies per 24-hour period).

 

The the problem with TOR right now is that not only is the game's overwhelming focus on a story that comes to a screeching halt at 50, but that there very little value at all in repeating the process. You can't even shake up questing by mixing in different planets or going in a slightly different order -- every single character follows precisely the same straight line from 10-50, with the occasional little variance in the form of a smattering of class quests. Add to this the fact that even on high-pop servers, the questing worlds are virtually dead, giving a player little hope of completing the ridiculous number of group quests, or bumping into the scattered few members of the opposing faction around, and you have a recipe for monotony.

 

So, we have a game that A) doesn't have a lot to offer at endgame, B) doesn't have a lot to offer for a person repeating the standard game, and C) isn't doing much at all to change these things.

 

And you people wonder why this sucker is hemorrhaging subs?

 

*Edit* Oh, the OP was Sarfux. Well, gee, what a shock. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

Edited March 8, 2012 by AJediKnight

[iconchrono]

What's with the fascination with some people about endgame? Do they just expect a game to have everything in it all the time no matter what?

 

With me, I would rather take a solid, fun, enjoyable, amazing leveling experience levels 1-50 than to rush to 50 and be told, like in other games, "lol bro...the game starts at max level" With this game it doesn't start at max level nor should any game "start" at max level. It starts the minute you login as it should. BioWare did a great thing bringing the leveling experience back into mmos.

 

What do these hardcore rush to 50 players or people that complain about "no endgame" want to be able to do at endgame... everything that has a beginning..has an end

 

Thank you, I was losing hope after reading the ridiculous amount of complaints of the most idiotic things over and over and over again on this forum for months.

 

Finally someone gets it!

 

When you play Mass Effect, or Dragon Age, or Baldurs Gate, or Final Fantasy, or Call of frickin' Duty, do you beat the game, and then complain that there's not an unlimited number of things to do afterward? Do you complain that if there's multiplayer at all, there's only X number of maps and you have to pay to get more, and even then that option is few and far between? NO, YOU DON'T, the statistics speak volumes.

 

What magic overcomes these people when they play an MMO that changes what could maybe, possibly, be a rational human being into a "special snow flake" who has so much UNWARRANTED SELF IMPORTANCE they feel it is perfectly reasonable to constantly demand the impossible.

 

Protip "hardcore" people, every game has an END, eventually you WILL experience all the content, and there will be nothing new left to do. There could be 100 unique raids at launch, and the moment the first guild completed that 100th raid, the forums would be flooded with "game is dying" "company doesn't care about customers" and "nothing to do at endgame" posts.

 

Do your research, you realize that in every major MMO, the MAJORITY of subscribers NEVER HIT THE LEVEL CAP... Let that sink in, that's right, the majority of people who play the games you obsess over, never even see this endgame you so constantly pursue and cherish (and gripe and complain about).

 

Bioware has done what no other major MMO I've played has done. They've made me enjoy simply PLAYING the game. For the first time in all my MMO playing experience (dating back to Everquest and Asheron's Call) I didn't care what level I was! I wasn't doing quests and killing things just to hit the next level, or get the next piece of gear for some minor meaningless stat increase, to help me do the same thing all over again. For the first time this MMO actually played like a GAME!!! Finally an MMO that actually felt like playing every other kind of game I've ever played, you know, fun!

 

Those who can't get over the fact that there's "not enough endgame" or "nothing to do at level cap", please, relax. Start treating this MMO like an RPG. Don't be afraid to enjoy the journey leading up to the end. Don't be afraid to get immersed in the story, find all the secrets, do all the side quests. Enjoy the ride!

 

And should you do all of the above and STILL find yourself looking for more, then PLEASE, do what video game players, particularly RPG players, have done in every major game release they couldn't get enough of. Create a new character, start all over from the beginning, and see what happens when you do things differently (i.e. play a new class) and make different choices.

 

Just maybe that will allow you to overlook the fact that this is the first MMO to ever be anything other than an MMO. This MMO actually dared to be a real game, instead of just a mindless treadmill.

 

Thanks Bioware, keep on rockin'...

[AJediKnight]

When you play Mass Effect, or Dragon Age, or Baldurs Gate, or Final Fantasy, or Call of frickin' Duty, do you beat the game, and then complain that there's not an unlimited number of things to do afterward? Do you complain that if there's multiplayer at all, there's only X number of maps and you have to pay to get more, and even then that option is few and far between? NO, YOU DON'T, the statistics speak volumes.

 

What magic overcomes these people when they play an MMO that changes what could maybe, possibly, be a rational human being into a "special snow flake" who has so much UNWARRANTED SELF IMPORTANCE they feel it is perfectly reasonable to constantly demand the impossible.

 

Protip "hardcore" people, every game has an END, eventually you WILL experience all the content, and there will be nothing new left to do. There could be 100 unique raids at launch, and the moment the first guild completed that 100th raid, the forums would be flooded with "game is dying" "company doesn't care about customers" and "nothing to do at endgame" posts.

 

Are you lost?

 

This is an MMO. It isn't some stupid single-player game. Of course people are going to demand more from it, because A) they are shelling out cash monthly to continue playing, and B) there are other games out there that have reams of things to do in their endgames.

 

And yes, every game has a finite amount of content. The expectation of a developer of a good MMO is to structure that content in such a way that the majority of players never see and do it all. It's not a perfect system, and you'll be left with a handful of completionists who complain that their pitiful group of raiders can't handle the hardest stuff, but the alternative (like what we have here) -- with wholly facerollable nonsense that can be wrapped up in a week -- is no better.

 

Bioware utterly failed in terms of what it takes to put together a successful MMO. Nobody should be hitting the cap in your game for at least two months post launch -- even if that means the leveling arc is a grindy beast because of it. Why? Because the bread and butter of MMOs is the endgame, and you want people to take their sweet time in getting to that endgame so you can properly populate it with crap to do. WoW didn't have most of its endgame in place at launch, but most people didn't have a 60 after three weeks, either.

 

Additionally, today's MMOers who aren't satisfied with WoW (which is who Bioware should have been trying to go after, since people satisfied with what WoW does obviously aren't going to quit it for a shabby copy of Blizzard's product) are looking for more things to do at endgame than simply raiding, grinding WZs or rerolling. To give some examples, people would like: player housing, a real RvR setting, guild capital ships, world PvP objectives, crafting that actually works, interactable features that encourage RP (sittable chairs, anyone?), and the list goes on. TOR features none of these things at endgame... and the only answer that Bioware and their junkies can come up with is... reroll?

 

Right... yeah, that's going to unseat WoW. Definitely.

Edited March 8, 2012 by AJediKnight

[RonaiSanzer]

-facedesk-

 

ajedi doesn't get it.

[AJediKnight]

-facedesk-

 

ajedi doesn't get it.

 

Logic like this will definitely win over millions to your cause.

Edited March 8, 2012 by AJediKnight

[Maltuvion]

That simply isn't true, even if people like you repeat it a thousand times a day. The fact of the matter is that with MMOs, a lot of people roll just a main, and that's it. A handful more put together 2-3 max level characters. Very rare is the bird who does more than that... and nothing in TOR is going to change that fact.

 

When you talk about what endgames in themeparks are like -- a pile of dailies, gear grinds, raids, etc. -- there is little time to work on more than 2-3 characters simultaneously (and if you're a PvPer on server where your faction stinks, then good luck even finishing one set of dailies per 24-hour period).

 

The the problem with TOR right now is that not only is the game's overwhelming focus on a story that comes to a screeching halt at 50, but that there very little value at all in repeating the process. You can't even shake up questing by mixing in different planets or going in a slightly different order -- every single character follows precisely the same straight line from 10-50, with the occasional little variance in the form of a smattering of class quests. Add to this the fact that even on high-pop servers, the questing worlds are virtually dead, giving a player little hope of completing the ridiculous number of group quests, or bumping into the scattered few members of the opposing faction around, and you have a recipe for monotony.

 

So, we have a game that A) doesn't have a lot to offer at endgame, B) doesn't have a lot to offer for a person repeating the standard game, and C) isn't doing much at all to change these things.

 

And you people wonder why this sucker is hemorrhaging subs?

 

*Edit* Oh, the OP was Sarfux. Well, gee, what a shock. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

 

Well said!

[ConradLionhart]

What's with the fascination with some people about endgame? Do they just expect a game to have everything in it all the time no matter what?

 

With me, I would rather take a solid, fun, enjoyable, amazing leveling experience levels 1-50 than to rush to 50 and be told, like in other games, "lol bro...the game starts at max level" With this game it doesn't start at max level nor should any game "start" at max level. It starts the minute you login as it should. BioWare did a great thing bringing the leveling experience back into mmos.

 

Pessimists - state why you feel you are negative and that things aren't coming and why you disapprove of these "endgames" an mmo MUST have.

 

Optimists - state why you fell you are positive about the things that are coming and why you are having fun with the leveling experience.

 

What do these hardcore rush to 50 players or people that complain about "no endgame" want to be able to do at endgame... everything that has a beginning..has an end

 

You make an error when you make the assumption that there are only 2 types of players: people who like leveling, and people who rush to 50 only to raid.

 

I like story as well, but I am realistic enough to realize that Bioware cannot have an RPG that you can play almost forever. They need endgame for many reasons:

1. It is something to keep people subbed and keep people playing. There is still the business side to games, and in order to survive, SW:TOR must keep people playing. Raids are probably the most cost-efficient content.

2. It is pretty much standard to have raids in a theme-park MMO. Just as how every theme-park MMO should have PvP. An MMO without things like raids and PvP is backwards.

 

End game is needed in an MMO as a natural progression. You spent 50 levels learning about planets and this big bad evil that has been hinted along the way. Then at 50, you band together with 7 other people to take down said big evil.

[RickRedOne]

Are you lost?

 

<snip> To give some examples, people would like: player housing, a real RvR setting, guild capital ships, world PvP objectives, crafting that actually works, intractable features that encourage RP (sittable chairs, anyone?), and the list goes on.

 

This list includes several things that SWG had, how did that work out?

[AJediKnight]

This list includes several things that SWG had, how did that work out?

 

Wow, what terrible reasoning.

 

SWG failed because twice -- twice! -- the developers attempted to reimagine their product from the ground-up post launch. The game was absolutely unrecognizable 12 months after it debuted on the market. People left because what they liked about SWG when it came out wasn't even there anymore.

 

But you're going to go ahead and blame the failure of SWG on... player housing and interactable environments?

 

I say again, wow.

 

Just wow.

 

So... does that mean if they add those things to TOR, the game will fall apart because of it? I'm just trying to follow your skewed logic to its natural conclusion.

Edited March 8, 2012 by AJediKnight

[DieAlteHexe]

Logic like this will definitely win over millions to your cause.

 

And your sarcastic, dismissive approach is any better?

 

BW has been rather daring here in that they've gone against the usual MMO, well, tradition. I happen to be thrilled with it as I most definitely am a "journey" person. In all the years of playing MMOs, end-game, level-cap, whatever, has ultimately turned into more of a job than a game. It just doesn't suit me. So, when I get to that portion of an MMO, I usually am done. No bitter recriminations, just accept that the content is no longer a journey and is more a treading water flooded with a LOT of carrots meant to keep me treading water.

 

I can always find something more entertaining, for me, to do.

 

BW has released a game that is an MMO in some senses, definitely, but they have managed to make that journey a whole lot more fun than any other MMO I've played. Only LoTRO came close and I suspect that's because I am a fan of LoTR.

 

I look forward to seeing where this goes. I'm approaching level 50 with one character and normally I'd be getting a twinge of "blast, it's almost over". And it may be, for now, on that character. We'll see what BW does for those who aren't into the more traditional level-cap mechanics. Even if they don't do another thing, I still have characters' stories to enjoy.

 

Of course, the problem here is that some people are approaching this like a traditional MMO and are annoyed with the diversion from the "traditions". I'm glad. I think it's a nice change. There are many, many traditional MMOs out there and I have to say I'm a big irked that some of the traditionalists are wanting this game to follow the formula.

 

Please don't BW. See all the player types enjoying the game and don't veer off from what you're doing. Sure, content for the more traditional players is important but don't stifle the difference you've made. It's a refreshing change.

[Koalachan]

You can't even shake up questing by mixing in different planets or going in a slightly different order -- every single character follows precisely the same straight line from 10-50, with the occasional little variance in the form of a smattering of class quests.

 

Yes you can. If you don't mind being under/over level for planet. Especially during chapter 1, you are pretty much always given a choice of two planets to do, but you need to do them both to proceed. If you finished your prologue at a decent enough level, using an example of Imp side, if you finish Dromund Kaas at high enough, around 18/19 which is easy if you do all the quests, the first two planets you are given are Balmorra and Nar shaddaa. NS is higher than B, but you can go there and do it first, then just go to Balmorra and only do the class quests.

[AJediKnight]

If you don't mind being under/over level for planet.

 

So, I should waste my own time just to play the planets out of order? Okay, yup. Keep the suggestions coming, folks.

[Ronule]

And your sarcastic, dismissive approach is any better?

 

BW has been rather daring here in that they've gone against the usual MMO, well, tradition. I happen to be thrilled with it as I most definitely am a "journey" person. In all the years of playing MMOs, end-game, level-cap, whatever, has ultimately turned into more of a job than a game. It just doesn't suit me. So, when I get to that portion of an MMO, I usually am done. No bitter recriminations, just accept that the content is no longer a journey and is more a treading water flooded with a LOT of carrots meant to keep me treading water.

 

I can always find something more entertaining, for me, to do.

 

BW has released a game that is an MMO in some senses, definitely, but they have managed to make that journey a whole lot more fun than any other MMO I've played. Only LoTRO came close and I suspect that's because I am a fan of LoTR.

 

I look forward to seeing where this goes. I'm approaching level 50 with one character and normally I'd be getting a twinge of "blast, it's almost over". And it may be, for now, on that character. We'll see what BW does for those who aren't into the more traditional level-cap mechanics. Even if they don't do another thing, I still have characters' stories to enjoy.

 

Of course, the problem here is that some people are approaching this like a traditional MMO and are annoyed with the diversion from the "traditions". I'm glad. I think it's a nice change. There are many, many traditional MMOs out there and I have to say I'm a big irked that some of the traditionalists are wanting this game to follow the formula.

 

Please don't BW. See all the player types enjoying the game and don't veer off from what you're doing. Sure, content for the more traditional players is important but don't stifle the difference you've made. It's a refreshing change.

 

Well we do have a couple of problems. First, they aren't that daring really, they kept most of the same formulas as previous MMO's only they sugar coat it so we don't notice right off the bat. I realized this about when I hit level 40 or so on my assassin, and low twenties on my merc. This leads me to my main problem. I am an extreme altoholic. I rarely put much effort into endgame anything, and usually just make a new toon and run with it till I get bored again. That being said, the sugar coating wore off before I was even off the second planet on my merc (second toon) when I realized... that no matter how good the class story is, I'm still going to have to go through the hours of 'meh' stuff to get to it each planet... and I have to do the same planets each time, same order, and the dialogue 'choices' we make really don't mean anything more than what a letter that shows up says about what happened.

 

Now, as a person who loves the journey (me) in an MMO (or any RPG for that matter), having to have the same journey each time is a little silly (in the case of MMO's). Basically, if we want to rap up my complaints in a quick and pretty little sentence it would be this: If this was KOTOR III, I'd love it to death; but as {Insert MMO Franchise of your Choice} in space with glowing sticks of death, it fails pretty badly since it doesn't actually give us a true new journey each time we play it, and it doesn't give us a nice tea party to keep us occupied when we do reach the end.*

 

*Last part is admittedly based off my presumptions from what I have read and watched.

[Rigota]

Whats the point. Its just a game its ok to like or not like it, both is fine.

 

And be glad if you like this game at least your money had some worth.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Rigota

[Mashy]

That simply isn't true, even if people like you repeat it a thousand times a day. The fact of the matter is that with MMOs, a lot of people roll just a main, and that's it. A handful more put together 2-3 max level characters. Very rare is the bird who does more than that... and nothing in TOR is going to change that fact.

 

When you talk about what endgames in themeparks are like -- a pile of dailies, gear grinds, raids, etc. -- there is little time to work on more than 2-3 characters simultaneously (and if you're a PvPer on server where your faction stinks, then good luck even finishing one set of dailies per 24-hour period).

 

The the problem with TOR right now is that not only is the game's overwhelming focus on a story that comes to a screeching halt at 50, but that there very little value at all in repeating the process. You can't even shake up questing by mixing in different planets or going in a slightly different order -- every single character follows precisely the same straight line from 10-50, with the occasional little variance in the form of a smattering of class quests. Add to this the fact that even on high-pop servers, the questing worlds are virtually dead, giving a player little hope of completing the ridiculous number of group quests, or bumping into the scattered few members of the opposing faction around, and you have a recipe for monotony.

 

So, we have a game that A) doesn't have a lot to offer at endgame, B) doesn't have a lot to offer for a person repeating the standard game, and C) isn't doing much at all to change these things.

 

And you people wonder why this sucker is hemorrhaging subs?

 

*Edit* Oh, the OP was Sarfux. Well, gee, what a shock. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

 

An absolute load of rubbish posted by a true content locust! Don't like it, the doors that way!

[Daluu]

An absolute load of rubbish posted by a true content locust! Don't like it, the doors that way!

 

The leveling experience in TOR is very repetitive, so there is very little reason to repeat it. The only change is the story quest...other than that you get the same linear quest line on every planet. Sure you can PvP, if your into that, but that would take forever to level and thats very repetitive as well. And then space missions...also repetitive, and not that fun after the first couple times you do it. The only replay value comes from the class quest that makes up roughly 20% of your leveling experience, if not less.

 

And please tell me how the story continues at 50. Operations...not really. And the only story thats actually interesting and worth following is the class story which does end at 50.

 

I don't care if you don't like it, its true.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Daluu

[DieAlteHexe]

Well we do have a couple of problems. First, they aren't that daring really, they kept most of the same formulas as previous MMO's only they sugar coat it so we don't notice right off the bat. I realized this about when I hit level 40 or so on my assassin, and low twenties on my merc. This leads me to my main problem. I am an extreme altoholic. I rarely put much effort into endgame anything, and usually just make a new toon and run with it till I get bored again. That being said, the sugar coating wore off before I was even off the second planet on my merc (second toon) when I realized... that no matter how good the class story is, I'm still going to have to go through the hours of 'meh' stuff to get to it each planet... and I have to do the same planets each time, same order, and the dialogue 'choices' we make really don't mean anything more than what a letter that shows up says about what happened.

 

Now, as a person who loves the journey (me) in an MMO (or any RPG for that matter), having to have the same journey each time is a little silly (in the case of MMO's). Basically, if we want to rap up my complaints in a quick and pretty little sentence it would be this: If this was KOTOR III, I'd love it to death; but as {Insert MMO Franchise of your Choice} in space with glowing sticks of death, it fails pretty badly since it doesn't actually give us a true new journey each time we play it, and it doesn't give us a nice tea party to keep us occupied when we do reach the end.*

 

*Last part is admittedly based off my presumptions from what I have read and watched.

 

And this is where BW faces a challenge. There are types, there are sub-types, there are fringe elements etc. I am going to assume they have their metrics to work with and can discern the size of each player...erm...faction. Obviously they will go with what they think is going to be financially successful.

 

Difference between you and I, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that if I get to the end and don't like what I see? Well, I had fun in the meantime. Like a good book...it ends eventually and instead of focusing on the fact that it ended, I focus more on how I enjoyed it whilst reading.

 

TLDR: If by the time I get all my characters to 50 there is nothing to do? Well, I've had fun and certainly gotten my money's worth getting there. I'll move on.

 

Guess I don't take these games "seriously" enough. If I enjoy, I play. When I stop enjoying, I stop playing. I give developers input but I don't expect it to be implemented.

[LionRa]

BW has been rather daring here in that they've gone against the usual MMO, well, tradition...

 

...people are approaching this like a traditional MMO and are annoyed with the diversion from the "traditions". I'm glad. I think it's a nice change...

 

...content for the more traditional players is important but don't stifle the difference you've made...

 

You mention "tradition" and departure from that status quo numerous times in your post, as if you see SWtOR having broken considerable new ground and established itself as a wholly new entity from any multiplayer online experience before it. I can only speak for myself, but certainly I do not see them having accomplished any such feat.

 

SWtOR is notable for three innovations in the MMO gaming experience. First, the story. Where predecessors in the space have employed only a vague sense of continuity and story, this design has chosen to weave story considerably more into the advancement experience than has been seen before. Many find this unsurprising, as the strengths of the developer certainly have been demonstrated to lie along the character development and story progression axes, but it certainly is notable. Unfortunately, the stories that the developers have chosen to tell are confined to the advancement phase of the game. There are no compelling tales once the third act of your story ends, and indeed, it is difficult to see how there is any room to tell further stories without venturing into the absurd. Each character begins their story as an apprentice, a neophyte, someone unskilled or inexperienced. They emerge from the first portion of the tale as characters of immense influence, within the space of a very small fraction of the duration for which the developers hope to retain the player's interest. Where do our characters go from here? We are masters of our trade, and only the highest levels of power remain ahead. Will the next chapter of the tale have each of us toppling the Emperor or claiming control of the Jedi Council? Or will it be necessary to "reset" the story by contriving some shame or loss of status that requires us to climb anew? The storytellers have chosen to make the player characters essentially Counts and Dukes after their third adventure, to invoke a pen-and-paper feudal analogy. That pace leads to player-character deification just over the next hill. Where is the long-term, overarching story, which unfolds over months and years rather than weeks? Sadly, the promise of the story has been squandered by a lack of foresight and planning. After Act III, the story vanishes from gameplay, and it would be surprising to see it return. In the end, the SWtOR story may be viewed by history as an ambitious but ill-fitting experiment in the MMO space.

 

The other two innovations, the crew skill system with its multitasking capabilities and the custom item system whereby appearance is divorced from function, are both similarly hamstrung by the decisions made by the designers in an apparent rush to transition the player from the story-based advancement to the currently-sparse endgame. The interesting crafting system is negated by the lack of crafted item value and the trivial effort with which superior items are gained. The custom item system is done in by being too unconstrained--modification items do not decay and are not consumable, and therefore fail to help drive the player economy or serve as a continual motivation for players to seek them.

 

Beyond those three innovations, SWtOR is as traditional an MMO design as any other. There are still levels, abilities, armor, weapons, quests, vehicles, experience, statistics, chat channels, guilds, parties, dungeons, battlegrounds, and raids. The story aspect of the game impacts only a small portion of the activities during the advancement phase, with the remainder the well-worn kill/fetch/escort/collect quest mechanisms. The system's use of statistics is nearly carbon-copy from other implementations, as are the segmentation of content, the itemization, the player combat rules, the skill trees, and the badge system.

 

There was ample opportunity for the SWtOR developers to depart from the "traditional" MMO design model, and many of their players are, if indications on these forums are representative, disappointed that they did not seize those opportunities. The system that you reference in your post as a departure from tradition is being criticized precisely because it does not depart from tradition much at all, and compounding the sin, fulfills the traditions it has chosen to closely adhere to rather poorly. The story could have been central to the experience, with robust, multi-player storylines written both deeply and widely enough to allow real choice and to enable authoring a story of the players' own within the gameworld. Rather than content packs comprised of dungeons and raids, such releases might have been new chapters in the characters' stories, extending each time a bit further the investment each player has in their avatar and those of their comrades. That would be real innovation in story-driven MMO gameplay, but these developers were not ambitious enough. They chose to cling to established tradition, and did so without the polish and design vision that would have been necessary to represent improvement in that tradition.

 

No, if anything, the SWtOR game is too traditional. It could have been something much more, but sadly we must continue to await innovative approaches to the genre as a whole by designfolk willing to risk departing from the stagnant norm.

[Ronule]

And this is where BW faces a challenge. There are types, there are sub-types, there are fringe elements etc. I am going to assume they have their metrics to work with and can discern the size of each player...erm...faction. Obviously they will go with what they think is going to be financially successful.

 

Difference between you and I, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that if I get to the end and don't like what I see? Well, I had fun in the meantime. Like a good book...it ends eventually and instead of focusing on the fact that it ended, I focus more on how I enjoyed it whilst reading.

 

TLDR: If by the time I get all my characters to 50 there is nothing to do? Well, I've had fun and certainly gotten my money's worth getting there. I'll move on.

 

Guess I don't take these games "seriously" enough. If I enjoy, I play. When I stop enjoying, I stop playing. I give developers input but I don't expect it to be implemented.

 

I wouldn't say I focus on the negatives as a source of complaint. I actually focus on the negatives because I would like to see them changed to positives. MMO's are basically my main game genre these days, in fact if you take MMO's out of the picture, I play maybe two or three games a year, I just don't game anymore. So for the one genre I do put a lot of time and effort into, I want to see a lively market where they actually compete to get my attention. I don't try to dog on this game because I want it to sink, I dog on it because I want to see it hold up well on the market and give me something to consider.

 

Anyhow, I apologize if what I just said had nothing to do with what you were getting at, it was how I interpreted your post, so I hope I was correct in my assumption. Also, what does the 'TLDR:' mean?

[Ironspeed]

Anyhow, I apologize if what I just said had nothing to do with what you were getting at, it was how I interpreted your post, so I hope I was correct in my assumption. Also, what does the 'TLDR:' mean?

 

To Long, Didnt Read.

 

 

Anyway, I'm in the same boat as AJedi here, the story was good the first time around, I enjoyed levling my Sith assasin, badgirl style, I enjoyed levling my Powertech less (it's not max yet and I'm skipping as much as I can, trying to fill the empty levels with Flashpoints, pvp and spacemissions).

 

My third character is level 18 and I cant even manage to get her started on the next planet (belsavis I think or was it balmorra, allways mix up the names, generic planet after ship place).

 

I was supposed todo story arc, then pvp to next tier, but I'm getting so angry and bored at the PvP zones and other people (who seem to be doing the same thing as me, levling in pvp, and failing or not caring about how they play, I mean come on, it's almost better to just run in a circle, cash in and requeue then actually trying to play).

 

TL;DR, to linear story gives to low replayability, choices are good sometimes you know!