I don't mind being free marketing for you Bioware, but. . .

[Blotter]

I'm sorry, but did you just basically say "I don't mind, but I do mind"???

[Belcorwyn]

I'm sorry, but did you just basically say "I don't mind, but I do mind"???

 

Yes, he did. I noticed that, too. Doesn't mean he's not right, though.

[thomasgallant]

Obligated to work? What obligates me? We don't live in Soviet Russia.

 

We work based on the promise of payment. Plain and simple.

 

Same philosophy applies here.

 

Do you know what a freelancer is? Or a subcontractor? Or a consultant? Or a PR firm?

 

Do you have any business acumen whatsoever?

 

you are obligated to work for your company because if you do not they fire you..

 

even a freelance or subcontractor they terminate your contact if you do not work.. thats obligation

 

 

you do not work for bioware ..there was no contract or agreement signed

[Belcorwyn]

you are obligated to work for your company because if you do not they fire you..

 

even a freelance or subcontractor they terminate your contact if you do not work.. thats obligation

 

 

you do not work for bioware ..there was no contract or agreement signed

 

Employment is a two way street, though. That's what I was trying to illustrate. When you gain employement, you enter into an agreement that you will perform certain actions and in return you'll get paid. If you don't, obviously the company has the right to replace you with someone more willing or capable.

 

What Bioware is trying to do is get you to perform an action without giving you the benefit of compensation. Providing them a service in this capacity is still effectively working for them, as they are the end beneficiary of your time. If you get your friend to sub, who gets the money?

 

Buddy, if I own a restaurant and I give out free steaks for a night, it's not because I'm generous. It's because I'm trying to generate sales.

 

A more street-centric example would be this: drug dealer gives friend crack for free for a week on the hope that the friend will become hooked. The drug dealer isn't being generous. The drug dealer has profit in mind.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Belcorwyn

[Egnar]

Employment is a two way street, though. That's what I was trying to illustrate. When you gain employement, you enter into an agreement that you will perform certain actions and in return you'll get paid. If you don't, obviously the company has the right to replace you with someone more willing or capable.

 

What Bioware is trying to do is get you to perform an action without giving you the benefit of compensation. Providing them a service in this capacity is still effectively working for them, as they are the end beneficiary of your time. If you get your friend to sub, who gets the money?

 

Buddy, if I own a restaurant and I give out free steaks for a night, it's not because I'm generous. It's because I'm trying to generate sales.

 

A more street-centric example would be this: drug dealer gives friend crack for free for a week on the hope that the friend will become hooked. The drug dealer isn't being generous. The drug dealer has profit in mind.

While several people have pledged support in the thread it's nice to see somebody who actually understands where I'm coming from and the reasoning as to why I made this post.

[halorix]

Obligated to work? What obligates me? We don't live in Soviet Russia.

 

We work based on the promise of payment. Plain and simple.

 

Same philosophy applies here.

 

Do you know what a freelancer is? Or a subcontractor? Or a consultant? Or a PR firm?

 

Do you have any business acumen whatsoever?

 

Generally you work to get money to pay for things you want/need such as food, so in a way yes you are obligated to work unless you're just riding on others coat tails.

 

Yes i know all those terms, the question is why you feel the need to act like people are fools for being alright with inviting a friend to try out a game? seriously do you never tell a friend that certain games are fun? because if you did by your logic you would be a fool or a idiot for advertising for someone else for free.

[thomasgallant]

While several people have pledged support in the thread it's nice to see somebody who actually understands where I'm coming from and the reasoning as to why I made this post.

 

I understand where you are coming from. you feel you deserve to be compensated for a service you are offering to bioware..where many of us think this service you are offering is not worth what you are asking for..

 

i disagree with you.. and you disagreed with me.. which both are fine however neither of us will win the other over..

 

would i like something from bioware..sure who doesnt like free stuff.. do i deserve it? no..

 

end of story

[Belcorwyn]

Generally you work to get money to pay for things you want/need such as food, so in a way yes you are obligated to work unless you're just riding on others coat tails.

 

Yes i know all those terms, the question is why you feel the need to act like people are fools for being alright with inviting a friend to try out a game? seriously do you never tell a friend that certain games are fun? because if you did by your logic you would be a fool or a idiot for advertising for someone else for free.

 

My issue isn't with someone who wants to generously provide their time to Bioware based on their own feelings on the matter. If you feel like giving your time away for free, go ahead.

 

My issue is with people who denounce the OP as self-entitled, when he clearly understands the principles of fair trade, marketing, and basic economics. That's who I'm lambasting. If you fall into that category, I'm sorry, but people will be making money off of you for a looong time.

 

People need to realize that this is a marketing ploy that is taught in universities all over America (and internationally, I assume). It's called getting your customers to work for you. In that respect, you should also realize that you are entitled to fair compensation, just as you would be for any other service asked of you. Whether you wish to donate or forgo that compensation is entirely your choice. Just do it with a clear understanding of what is actually happening.

 

Quid pro quo.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Belcorwyn

[halorix]

My issue isn't with someone who wants to generously provide their time to Bioware based on their own feelings on the matter. If you feel like giving your time away for free, go ahead.

 

My issue is with people who denounce the OP as self-entitled, when he clearly understands the principles of fair trade, marketing, and basic economics. That's who I'm lambasting. If you fall into that category, I'm sorry, but people will be making money off of you for a looong time.

 

Actually if you read my posts you would understand i have a pretty good idea of what bioware is doing, the incentive to send out the trials is to hopefully get more friends to play with, while getting bioware more money, at this point they do not feel the need to give a free month for getting someone to sign up, I'd guess that will come in 1-2 months.

 

If you feel 15 dollars per friend is worth more to you then more friends to play with, go ahead and wait, its a trade off, and one that bioware is betting you would rather invite friends now then wait for free months later.

[Belcorwyn]

Actually if you read my posts you would understand i have a pretty good idea of what bioware is doing, the incentive to send out the trials is to hopefully get more friends to play with, while getting bioware more money, at this point they do not feel the need to give a free month for getting someone to sign up, I'd guess that will come in 1-2 months.

 

If you feel 15 dollars per friend is worth more to you then more friends to play with, go ahead and wait, its a trade off, and one that bioware is betting you would rather invite friends now then wait for free months later.

 

Your statements here are accurate. Bioware is deliberately not incentivizing participation because it's sales are still steady. It hasn't gotten to the point that Bioware needs to resort to "give-aways." I would guess that they're comfortable enough with their sales trends and their current subscriptions that they are ok with the diminished return that a disincentivised program will generate. If their return is not as high as expected, rest assured that they'll add incentives. If, of course, they're smart.

 

That being said, this fact does not refute the economical logic behind the OP.

 

As to my personal participation: I won't be sending out emails on behalf of Bioware. I've already generated my fair share of interest via word-of-mouth. My friends and relatives know that I'm playing SWTOR, and they are either playing it with me or they are not. I'm not about to beg on behalf of Bioware's interest. If a friend or relative asks me about the game, I'll give them my opinion and inform them that Bioware has trial program available, which I will gladly supply upon request.

 

If you want to send out the emails, that's great. That's your prerogative. Just be mindful of what your actions are worth and what your role is in this marketing scheme. If you're still ok with it, great. That, too, is your prerogative. People value different things differently.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Belcorwyn

[amantheil]

People need to realize that this is a marketing ploy that is taught in universities all over America (and internationally, I assume). It's called getting your customers to work for you. In that respect, you should also realize that you are entitled to fair compensation, just as you would be for any other service asked of you. Whether you wish to donate or forgo that compensation is entirely your choice. Just do it with a clear understanding of what is actually happening.

 

Quid pro quo.

 

Of course it's a marketing ploy. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. It's a lot like those companies which encourage people to "like" them on Facebook.

 

Now what's "fair compensation" is obviously a debatable point. I think what some people are saying is that making it easier for your friends to play with you is compensation enough.

 

I think a lot of people would say "it would be nice if they gave out a perk, but I'd try to convince my friends to play regardless since I think it would be fun for both of us." That's different than saying "I won't refer any of my friends unless I get something in return."

[halorix]

Your statements here are accurate. Bioware is deliberately not incentivizing participation because it's sales are still steady. It hasn't gotten to the point that Bioware needs to resort to "give-aways." I would guess that they're comfortable enough with their sales trends and their current subscriptions that they are ok with the diminished return that a disincentivised program will generate. If their return is not as high as expected, rest assured that they'll add incentives. If, of course, they're smart.

 

That being said, this fact does not refute the economical logic behind the OP.

 

As to my personal participation: I won't be sending out emails on behalf of Bioware. I've already generated my fair share of interest via word-of-mouth. My friends and relatives know that I'm playing SWTOR, and they are either playing it with me or they are not. I'm not about to beg on behalf of Bioware's interest. If a friend or relative asks me about the game, I'll give them my opinion and inform them that Bioware has trial program available, which I will gladly supply upon request.

 

If you want to send out the emails, that's great. That's your prerogative. Just be mindful of what your actions are worth and what your role is in this marketing scheme. If you're still ok with it, great. That, too, is your prerogative. People value different things differently.

 

I'm not sending them out, primarily because everyone i want to play with i am currently playing with, same as you, the OP does have a point and I'm not calling him greedy or bioware saints for this, i just cant stand people who don't understand the moves bioware is making with this, on either side.

 

That being said we're the only ones replying now it seems, and we both understand, I feel its time to move on to greener pastures.

 

Edit: or not...

Edited March 7, 2012 by halorix

[Belcorwyn]

Of course it's a marketing ploy. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. It's a lot like those companies which encourage people to "like" them on Facebook.

 

Now what's "fair compensation" is obviously a debatable point. I think what some people are saying is that making it easier for your friends to play with you is compensation enough.

 

I think a lot of people would say "it would be nice if they gave out a perk, but I'd try to convince my friends to play regardless since I think it would be fun for both of us." That's different than saying "I won't refer any of my friends unless I get something in return."

 

This is a fair and accurate statement as well. However, attacking the OP by calling him "entitled" because he doesn't value his time, and this program, the same as everyone else is shortsighted and uninformed. Everyone values different things differently.

 

As I said in another post, if you believe that having a friend playing along side you is compensation enough for your time and participation, that's fine. It doesn't, however, mean that your expectations are automatically superimposed over others'. The OP simply states that he understands the worth he is providing and wants some incentive other than "I get to have my friends play with me." To him, that's not a fair trade of resources. And that's fine. I happen to agree with him.

 

Ultimately, these marketing ploys are so effective because they intentionally cultivate this idea that your compensation is simply getting your friends to play. They word their proposal in such a way as to get you to come to this conclusion, because they specifically do not want to pay you for doing as they ask. That's what's known as a negotiation technique. What the OP is doing is also considered negotiation, more specifically a "counter-offer." Of course, this isn't an effective medium for this kind of transaction, but that's notwithstanding.

 

If you agree with Bioware and you value your time in accordance with their estimation, then go ahead, play along. That doesn't mean that everyone will, however, or that they should. That's what philosophers call "egotism."

 

Bioware has stipulated their expectations, and the OP has stipulated his. Neither is inherently right, because value is subjective.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Belcorwyn

[Egnar]

As to my personal participation: I won't be sending out emails on behalf of Bioware. I've already generated my fair share of interest via word-of-mouth. My friends and relatives know that I'm playing SWTOR, and they are either playing it with me or they are not. I'm not about to beg on behalf of Bioware's interest. If a friend or relative asks me about the game, I'll give them my opinion and inform them that Bioware has trial program available, which I will gladly supply upon request.

This is exactly where I stand and have posted. Of course if my friends want to play I'll give them the free week because it's the right thing to do, but, anybody I want to spend time with playing is either already playing or is not - Any other friends would likely be playing in the same guild as me but likely not "with" me. My brother being the exception mainly because I would likely end up paying his subscription fee for him.

 

That being said the truth of the matter is as already stated - If you feel comfortable being a marketing agent for Bioware with no compensation that is completely fine with me, I really don't care - However, the truth of the matter is that I am providing a service that Bioware has asked me to provide for them and thus I should be compensated for it.

 

Notice that I DID NOT say "reward" - Because I'm not being rewarded in the same way that my boss doesn't "reward" me with a paycheck. He gives it to me as compensation for a job.

 

The only time I do not expect to be properly compensated for allowing somebody else to profit/benefit off of my efforts is when I am running my annual charity drive for Child's Play.

[Egnar]

I'm sorry, but did you just basically say "I don't mind, but I do mind"???

Actually no - And here's why:

 

Offering me a free month doesn't cost Bioware anything. Bioware actually gets paid 4x my subscription fee to offer me a free month. Instead my subscription fee is being replaced by the cost of the game ($60) or at the very least [because I'm not sure if this free trial covers the cost of the game and the person only has to activate by starting a subscription] it is substituted with somebody who wouldn't have normally played in a month paying. Than the following month both of us are paying customers.

 

At work we do it all the time, offering people free months of Karate if they sign up a paying friend. It costs us nothing because the staff is already running a class and no revenue is lost because we have a new student paying the dues of an old student.

 

Since the same thing is happening here I am, even if an incentive is given I am essentially Free Labor.

[nadokaoh]

Actually no - And here's why:

 

Offering me a free month doesn't cost Bioware anything. Bioware actually gets paid 4x my subscription fee to offer me a free month. Instead my subscription fee is being replaced by the cost of the game ($60) or at the very least [because I'm not sure if this free trial covers the cost of the game and the person only has to activate by starting a subscription] it is substituted with somebody who wouldn't have normally played in a month paying. Than the following month both of us are paying customers.

 

At work we do it all the time, offering people free months of Karate if they sign up a paying friend. It costs us nothing because the staff is already running a class and no revenue is lost because we have a new student paying the dues of an old student.

 

Since the same thing is happening here I am, even if an incentive is given I am essentially Free Labor.

just pointing out

 

katate free for you + paying friend = they getting moneys from a friend

free week + free month = no moneys from anyone

 

now if they where to add

you get free month when friend buys game <-- got no prob with this

Edited March 8, 2012 by nadokaoh

[Egnar]

just pointing out

 

katate free for you + paying friend = they getting moneys from a friend

free week + free month = no moneys from anyone

 

now if they where to add

you get free month when friend buys game <-- got no prob with this

You wouldn't get a free month until your friend start paying. That's the point. I don't expect any compensation just for sending out an e-mail. But if my e-mail produces revenue I expect to be given compensation.

[Belcorwyn]

You wouldn't get a free month until your friend start paying. That's the point. I don't expect any compensation just for sending out an e-mail. But if my e-mail produces revenue I expect to be given compensation.

 

Yup, it's like a commission, or a finders fee. Results = Profit = Compensation.

[Ironspeed]

I tought about this invite a friend thing, and figured out I dont want to recomend the game to any of my friends, not in this state atleast (they come from smoother more polished worlds).

 

but yeah, if they can fix it and add a nice recruit a friend system I might consider it..

[laserfloyd]

The reading comprehension here is intolerable.

 

He wants a perk or incentive for inviting friends. You know there's this other game, I won't name it, that does this. You get items, in game perks and so forth. If you're giving them a paying customer then a little 'thank you for your time AND money' incentive is NOT a handout. Free game play for bringing on friends entirely reasonable. Sheesh!

[Kourage]

I feel kind of cheated inviting all of my friends to 7 day trials with such big restrictions [don't get me wrong I agree with the restrictions and understand why they are there] that I won't really be able to enjoy playing the game with my friends until they end of paying you without receiving some kind of compensation.

 

Seriously, you're asking me to advertise your game, something you pay people to do normally? I see ads for this game every time I boot up Kongregate.com and I'm sure Gamestop didn't put those advertisements up for free.

 

You can't offer me a free month for every friend of mine that eventually decides to pay for your game?. . Not even a free week? I'm not asking for anything upfront but if I produce results to bolster your revenue shouldn't I be compensated?

 

I was pretty excited when I saw this trial because I wanted to find something I could do with my 18 year old younger brother during our spare time, even if I ended up paying for his first few months of play, but, I just feel dirty sending him an e-mail at this point.

 

 

 

There's your fail.

 

They are not asking you to do anything. They are giving you the opportunity to share the game with your friends for a week. That way, you'll have someone to play with and not complain you can't find a group.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Kourage