Bags, gating and PvP

[DaedalusV]

I don't want access to BM gear. I just want to be able to progress my Valor rank to level 50 without a counter-intuitive hardcap..

 

As it is now, I cap valor before I hit a third of the xp needed for next level. Leveling through PvP makes me effectively loose out on PvP progression.

 

The current way it works is similar to the following:

 

A PvE player should not be able to rise in character level if his Valor level isn't high enough.. His progression towards endgame should be gated by the amount of PvP he does. He will still be able to do FP's, heroics and quests, but will be unable to aquire XP until his valor level is high enough for him to continue leveling via PvE

 

 

BM gear is tier 2 (or tier 3) PvP gear, I'm not advocating getting access to it pre-50 But at least let a pure PvP'er get access to tier 1 stuff faster than PvE people (The level req would still make it impossible to equip pre-50) I put in the hours and "work" to get to level 50, I just do that through PvP instead of PvE, I shouldn't be indirectly punished for that. (effectively loose Valor for PvP'ing too much)

[keiris]

 

A PvE player should not be able to rise in character level if his Valor level isn't high enough.. His progression towards endgame should be gated by the amount of PvP he does. He will still be able to do FP's, heroics and quests, but will be unable to aquire XP until his valor level is high enough for him to continue leveling via PvE.

 

k but then... if you level solely by PVP, you gain both character level and valor level; however PVE levelers only gain character level. Would your analogy also grant valor ranks to strictly PVE players at the same rate as PVP players gain character level?

 

Although I think the valor cap can be perceived as frustrating, it wasn't intended to be a "leveling" system. Hopefully the valor rank/reward system changes will alleviate the feeling of "losing valor".

 

on a side note, I leveled my main through PVP and class quests, and I go through the WZ adrenals/health boosts like candy. I'm glad I had stocked up with the extra comms.

Edited March 8, 2012 by keiris

[FoxNemhauser]

Buy a level 46 weapon. Take the Expertise mod out. Rinse and repeat until you think you have enough. You can shove them in some level 50 gear to make being a new 50 less of a pain.

 

that's actually poor man's idea

 

i had full moddable set at 45 with all purple armorings/mods/enhancements

 

i performed a lot better than my friend who took the time and wasted commendations on those expertise enhancements

 

 

and even now - as a fresh lvl50, i'm planning on skipping the main centurion set as my full purple lvl50 upgrades are way better because i picked the mods that i needed for my playstyle (i don't need alacricity and accuracy as much as i need crit/power/surge)

[Loxion]

BM gear is END game pvp gear. lvl 40's do not have access to columi or rakata gear, why should you have access to BM or champion gear pre 50? You cannot start acquiring any Tionese or Energized gear till after you have completed your class quest or hit 50...so why should you be able to start acquiring end game PVP gear pre 50?

 

Who said anything about getting gear below 50? Infact, in another post of mine in this thread I said that having a level cap on the gear itself is fine. Having a cap on the Valor itself is the question, if someone happens to put the time into PvP to max their Valor rank (assuming no cap) then why shouldn't they be able to?

[Irunbad]

Great Post...

 

I am also in this boat, as I am a pvp player and really can't stand much pve.

I am lvl 28 with a Champ bag and 1000wz/1000merc tokens, I also have all my 40 gear purchased even tho it might not have been the best thing to do i have nothing else to spend the wz tokens on.

 

So the problem is that I cannot exeed a higher Valor ranking then 28 as that is my curent lvl. Having a Lvl req is fine but why wouldn't I be able to purchase an item and store it till i am able to use it??? ( so stupid ) so now all my wz tokens that i get just goes to waste since there is nothing more for me to purchase.

 

Plus Since i collect a lot more valor then I do exp ( at least you lvl valor faster then you actually lvl) all the Valor that I get is wasted? I am still putting in as much time as a lvl 50 pvp player so why am I getting held back by Valor??

 

 

I understand that some will say just get to 50 blah blah blah, but i ont play this game to PVE i play it only for the pvp content, my character hasn't even finished coruscant.

 

Solution take of cap for Valor ranking or take off Valor req for BUYING an item. ( not using it just buying it )

[Kaarsa]

In the beginning, I want to say that I dont care if valor is level capped or not.

 

Now, my thoughts WHY it is level capped:

 

BW planned battlemaster title to mean something. Ofc, not-separated brackets in the begining, Ilum bug and Ilum kill-trading mostly destroyed that concept, but IMO it is what BW wanted.

 

So, why they capped Valor? Because you shouldnt be battlemaster or war hero thanks to being lev 40+ in 10-49 bracket. You would get those titles for fighting mostly palyers that have no chance against you. Bolster or not, lev 10-30 has virtually no chances against similary geared lev 40-49 (and contrary to popular opinion, gear matter A LOT in 10-49 BECAUSE of bolster mechanic).

 

So, you want to roflstomp oposition that have wirtually no chance of fighting back and be rewarded with BM title? It is not how it should work probably.

 

Current change with amounts of valor given from medals excacerbated problem, because previously it was not so easy to cap valor while leveling, now it is very fast, 2000 valor minimum every WZ? Valor 1-50 is light speed then.

 

Should BW change it now? To be honest I dont know and I dont care, I just wanted to share my opinion about why we have it in current shape.

[FoxNemhauser]

BW planned battlemaster title to mean something.

 

They planned but it really didn't work.

 

I'm not yet a battlemaster (dinged 50 on my pvp alt two days ago) but I've already killed a dozen of battle masters and war heroes.

 

Hell, I even got a solo kill (assassin) medal on a War Hero. After such incident he should have changed his the title to War Loser :-)

 

 

So, you want to roflstomp oposition that have wirtually no chance of fighting back and be rewarded with BM title? It is not how it should work probably.

 

Title is just title, you can't throw your title at your opponents and expect them to die from that.

 

Nobody here wants to wear battlemaster gear at lvl40, we just want the valor to not be capped so as soon as we ding 50 - we can start working towards the battlemaster gear if our valor rank permits that.

 

 

 

So, why they capped Valor? Because you shouldnt be battlemaster or war hero thanks to being lev 40+ in 10-49 bracket. You would get those titles for fighting mostly palyers that have no chance against you. Bolster or not, lev 10-30 has virtually no chances against similary geared lev 40-49 (and contrary to popular opinion, gear matter A LOT in 10-49 BECAUSE of bolster mechanic).

 

In my opinion the title should either come from getting whole set of battlemaster (or at least the main parts + main hand weapon) or by killing X number of people that have champion (or above) rank (and X being in a range of 1000 or even 5000 if not more)

 

Getting to rank 60 is not feat - now or in the past, you just have to grind some warzones/ilum and that's it. (that's also a reason i'm not wearing any pvp oriented title because the mean nothing... the hardmodes/operation titles at least mean that you did some harder pve content)

[DaedalusV]

In the beginning, I want to say that I dont care if valor is level capped or not.

 

Now, my thoughts WHY it is level capped:

 

BW planned battlemaster title to mean something. Ofc, not-separated brackets in the begining, Ilum bug and Ilum kill-trading mostly destroyed that concept, but IMO it is what BW wanted.

 

So, why they capped Valor? Because you shouldnt be battlemaster or war hero thanks to being lev 40+ in 10-49 bracket. You would get those titles for fighting mostly palyers that have no chance against you. Bolster or not, lev 10-30 has virtually no chances against similary geared lev 40-49 (and contrary to popular opinion, gear matter A LOT in 10-49 BECAUSE of bolster mechanic).

I started PvP'ing my main @ lvl 10, I was Valor capped by level 20, full lvl 20 PvP set equipped, a bag in my inventory and a few hundred Merc comms already. At the moment my main is level 32, I had full merc comms by lvl 25... This is not me trying to pwn people and "earning a title undeserved" I put the time in from the first moment I could and I kept putting time in.

 

So, you want to roflstomp oposition that have wirtually no chance of fighting back and be rewarded with BM title? It is not how it should work probably.

When I get to lvl 45 I will be having expertise and thus start to roflstomp people just by gear advantage. Only reason I got expertise gear equipable prior to lvl 50 is due to not having anything to spend my comms on.

Again, I see a lot of logic in preserving the BM title and access to BM stuff only for people who ding char level 50. But I can't see why I am stopped from progressing in valor ranking due to my character level instead of imposing a hardcap of rank 50 (thus I gain access to PURCHASING entry level stuff for level 50 PvP earlier than a PvE player would. Bear in mind I don't want to be able to EQUIP the stuff prior to char level 50, just want to be able to use my comms for something more useful than stims/adrenals. I would still need to grind Valor ranking when I hit level 50 to get BM title. THE PRECISE SAME AMOUNT I WILL WITH THE PRESENT CAP BY CHAR LEVEL (I will be maxed on rank 49 waaay before I ding level 50, after 1 WZ I will get valor rank 50 anyway)

 

Current change with amounts of valor given from medals excacerbated problem, because previously it was not so easy to cap valor while leveling, now it is very fast, 2000 valor minimum every WZ? Valor 1-50 is light speed then.

Precisely. Before I could cap valor before dinging a level, now I do it even faster. A PvE player will get access to BM title and gear even faster and with even less time spent doing pvp than ever before.

Should BW change it now? To be honest I dont know and I dont care, I just wanted to share my opinion about why we have it in current shape.

 

Thanks for your opinion, my comments are in red

 

you're not supposed to be able to farm lowbies to battlemaster.

 

They're FORCING you to participate in 50s WZ to get beyond 50V.

 

If there was no cap, I'd be battlemaster at level 20 with the current system.

 

This game focuses on story leveling, not mindless repeats of WZs to level.

I don't want to be able to gain BM rank/gear, just want to be able to reach valor 50 so I can spend my comms prudently, instead of buying stims/adrenals and/or subpar lvl 45 enhancements.

I know the game's about story and PvE, but they give xp rewards for PvP, and put PvP into the game, they told us it was an alternate way of leveling, I just see something in the design I don't agree with and I fail to see the logic behind the hardcap by char level they currently have. I am all for a hardcap prior to lvl 50, but at least make it so that PvP players actually get to spend their PvP rewards on something that is truly useful in endgame PvP when they have chosen to make PvP very gear-dependant and all about a gear-grind.

 

Presently I got the choice to just speed level to level 45 through PvE and then resume valor farming (and hope I don't reach level cap again prior to hitting level 50) and spend my PvP rewards on adrenals/stims (which are nice to have, but really... If PvE players had the same kinda choice, only spend credits on stims/adrenals, only 2 equipment sets while leveling from 10-49 and never ever ever had rare drops/random drops, they wouldn't like it one bit)

 

Or I could resume dedicating my time to PvP (which I enjoy doing more than exploring bioware's newest storyline) seeing valor go to waste, while buying adrenals/stims + stocking up on subpar expertise enhancements that will only really just tempt me to use prior to lvl 50 cuz I know it'll be a very uphill battle no matter what I do due to needing to spend time grinding out even more comms to finally purchase my entry level stuff.

[DaedalusV]

k but then... if you level solely by PVP, you gain both character level and valor level; however PVE levelers only gain character level. Would your analogy also grant valor ranks to strictly PVE players at the same rate as PVP players gain character level?

If the XP gains and Valor gains were inversely proportional. Yes. But then we would have the problem of having a game where it would take a few planets worth of PvE to get to endgame level.

 

Although I think the valor cap can be perceived as frustrating, it wasn't intended to be a "leveling" system. Hopefully the valor rank/reward system changes will alleviate the feeling of "losing valor".

I truly hope they'll adress the problem in those changes, but it's a long and at times frustrating wait. Currently though, I am very unimpressed with the lack of forethought they have put into the gating system of PvP.

 

on a side note, I leveled my main through PVP and class quests, and I go through the WZ adrenals/health boosts like candy. I'm glad I had stocked up with the extra comms.

 

It's a catch 22.

 

I will use more adrenals/stims in pvp due to being undergeared because I couldn't even BUY the gear that would mitigate some of the extra damage I know I will be recieving due to better gear. I am forced to spend comms or waste them.

[DaedalusV]

*bump*

[OldSwab]

Great Post...

 

I am also in this boat, as I am a pvp player and really can't stand much pve.

I am lvl 28 with a Champ bag and 1000wz/1000merc tokens, I also have all my 40 gear purchased even tho it might not have been the best thing to do i have nothing else to spend the wz tokens on.

 

So the problem is that I cannot exeed a higher Valor ranking then 28 as that is my curent lvl. Having a Lvl req is fine but why wouldn't I be able to purchase an item and store it till i am able to use it??? ( so stupid ) so now all my wz tokens that i get just goes to waste since there is nothing more for me to purchase.

 

Plus Since i collect a lot more valor then I do exp ( at least you lvl valor faster then you actually lvl) all the Valor that I get is wasted? I am still putting in as much time as a lvl 50 pvp player so why am I getting held back by Valor??

 

 

I understand that some will say just get to 50 blah blah blah, but i ont play this game to PVE i play it only for the pvp content, my character hasn't even finished coruscant.

 

Solution take of cap for Valor ranking or take off Valor req for BUYING an item. ( not using it just buying it )

 

It's almost like a company with a subscription-based business plan wants to put a cap on how much end game gear you can stockpile at level 12. Egads?!

 

Watson, I think we've made a discovery!

 

*bump*

 

Why? It's like bumping the "why is water wet" thread over -->

Edited March 9, 2012 by OldSwab

[DaedalusV]

It's almost like a company with a subscription-based business plan wants to put a cap on how much end game gear you can stockpile at level 12. Egads?!

I call shenanigans on that argument. I am able to freely stockpile everything I want to stockpile prior to level fifty for PvE end-game (entry level stuff) Furthermore, my point is mainly about the Valor rank cap creating a gating mechanism that forces me to PvE to maximize my PvP progression... PvE'ers seem to have a holy cow when it comes to being forced to do stuff they don't want to do to be able to be competative. I'm just applying the same logics on PvP. My progression is artificially prolonged and if I want to progress in PvP with maximum efficiency I am FORCED to PvE. Oh and, no way in the nine hells will you be able to get valor 50 by pvping from lvl 10-12. I'm sure it's possible to go from rank 1-50 in two levels in the other end of the spectrum though (levels 48-50) compunding the advantage PvE'ers get in their choice of leveling method.

Watson, I think we've made a discovery!

Yeah, that sarcasm isn't really applicable to a debate and using it kinda makes you look like a fool.

 

 

Why? It's like bumping the "why is water wet" thread over -->

*Bumping cuz water isn't wet all the time."

 

ITT;

 

1) Valor cap by character level is a redundant gating mechanism (A devoted PvP'er will be rank 50 20 mins after dinging level 50)

 

2) Valor cap by character level punishes leveling by PvP by making it the less-optimal route towards battlemaster (less xp/hour, less credits/hour is already there, no reason for me to loose out on valor gains towards rank 50)

 

3)By being able to reach Valor rank 50 earlier than a PvE'er, a PvP'er gains a small advantage over a PvE'er on the PvP aspect of the game once the PvP'er hits level 50.

I can't see any unfairness in above proposal. I put in the time in the 1-49 brackets = I get the advantage of having a better chance gear-wise over a PvE'er in PvP only.

 

4)Valor gains are huge, The most time-efficient way to get PvP rank 50 is PvE'ing 'till level 48 -> spend 2 levels in warzones going from rank 1 to rank 50 in a few hundred warzones...

[Aeryl]

A PvE player should not be able to rise in character level if his Valor level isn't high enough.. His progression towards endgame should be gated by the amount of PvP he does. He will still be able to do FP's, heroics and quests, but will be unable to aquire XP until his valor level is high enough for him to continue leveling via PvE

 

That's a terrible analogy. You guys act like you don't know you're playing an MMO. MMOs are built on a leveling system and always have been. A Valor cap may not have been the best idea, but don't act like you don't know what kind of game you're playing.

 

Also, I love the "i only play casually" bit followed by the ultimate min/maxer trait of saving bags for later levels.

[OldSwab]

*Bumping cuz water isn't wet all the time."

 

ITT;

 

1) Valor cap by character level is a redundant gating mechanism (A devoted PvP'er will be rank 50 20 mins after dinging level 50)

 

2) Valor cap by character level punishes leveling by PvP by making it the less-optimal route towards battlemaster (less xp/hour, less credits/hour is already there, no reason for me to loose out on valor gains towards rank 50)

 

3)By being able to reach Valor rank 50 earlier than a PvE'er, a PvP'er gains a small advantage over a PvE'er on the PvP aspect of the game once the PvP'er hits level 50.

I can't see any unfairness in above proposal. I put in the time in the 1-49 brackets = I get the advantage of having a better chance gear-wise over a PvE'er in PvP only.

 

4)Valor gains are huge, The most time-efficient way to get PvP rank 50 is PvE'ing 'till level 48 -> spend 2 levels in warzones going from rank 1 to rank 50 in a few hundred warzones...

Valor gains pre-patch fell in (mostly) along the lines of level gains. The massive boost is in advance of them mostly scrapping what they've done with valor, along with mostly scrapping what they've done with Ilum, and versioning it.

 

I like WZ's for the XP, the comms, the unscripted play, the challenge, the fun, and the ease of getting into them (click the button instead of riding a speeder all over heck and gone to talk to random "fetch-me-three-mouse-tails"). If the huge boost in valor in preparation for scrapping the whole mess leaves you feeling punished, my only suggestion is to stop putting your finger in that light socket.

[DaedalusV]

That's a terrible analogy. You guys act like you don't know you're playing an MMO. MMOs are built on a leveling system and always have been. A Valor cap may not have been the best idea, but don't act like you don't know what kind of game you're playing.

 

Also, I love the "i only play casually" bit followed by the ultimate min/maxer trait of saving bags for later levels.

 

I quite like the analogy, it showcases what I find troublesome about how the current valor cap is inhibiting me from reaching a point where I get to prepare for end-game "content" (Level 50 Warzone bracket and Ilum.) Right now, I am forced to PvE to optimize my PvP progression. Since the game's a geargrinder/themepark/railroad and there seems to be a design philosophy where PvE and PvP is segregated more and more, I would just like to see a more reasonable mechanic than the current.

 

If a PvE'er was forced to PvP to optimize his progression he wouldn't like it one bit.

 

On a side note... I define myself as a casual player because I'm getting older and have different priorities in life. Not because I'm lazy or imprudent. Back in the old days I'd have burnt through this pathetic excuse of a game in a month. I'm a min/max'er since Eye of the Beholder kid.

 

Given enough time and effort put into leveling my Valor ranking I want the slightly minor advantage of buying champion commendations for the Warzone commendations before character level 50. You should know I was capping my valor ranking easily even before the new valor gains buff that made Battlemaster completely meaningless. I was hoping I could level mainly through PvP without having to do too much PvE on my main char, but I will just have to suck it up and do the motions.

[DaedalusV]

Valor gains pre-patch fell in (mostly) along the lines of level gains. The massive boost is in advance of them mostly scrapping what they've done with valor, along with mostly scrapping what they've done with Ilum, and versioning it.

Maybe so, but I was still able to cap my valor before the valor gains buff, the change has done nothing for PvP-centered people. Instead it has made aquiring Valor ranking extremely easy, as long as you of course play bioware's PvE stuff first of course. I'm hoping the 1.2 changes will be good, but I'm not counting on it. Seems like the Bioware crew aren't playing with a full deck of cards when it comes to PvP systems.

 

I like WZ's for the XP, the comms, the unscripted play, the challenge, the fun, and the ease of getting into them (click the button instead of riding a speeder all over heck and gone to talk to random "fetch-me-three-mouse-tails"). If the huge boost in valor in preparation for scrapping the whole mess leaves you feeling punished, my only suggestion is to stop putting your finger in that light socket.

 

Oh I do find PvP'ing very fun, I can't agree more with the last part of your post.

 

But the game is a skinners box (google it if you don't know what I mean) and right now the way it functions is it rewards PvE play massively (by not having a cap on XP gained based on anything else than time spent doing the PvE stuff, while giving the PvE player RNG chances on rare loot and by letting the PvE player upgrade their stuff smoothly and quite often through planet Comms)

 

The Valor cap's effect on people's behavior is indeed (if using behavioristic theory) a punishment given the context of a MMO-geargrinder. You loose progression = an attempt to force people away from that particular activity if you do it overly much.