Why did Swtor turn into GW2?

[BeeSiK]

seems like a lot of people are breaking their NDA for GW2 beta they have..oh wait, since no one here has played it, stop talking like its going to kill anything, because for 1. you sound the same as this games fanboys. With diablo 3 and WoW's new expansion around the corner...good luck

[Can-Vi]

Better player wins. Do you think you playing 30-40 hours a week auto-pwns someone who plays 10-15 hours?

 

Pretty much yeah, its the same logic of any sport. Or do you think that Messi would play like he plays if he was allways skiping the trainings? Practice makes perfection.

[GrandMike]

Dear PvP hardcores,

 

You want to encourage new players to PvP. THAT is how PvP stays new and relevant. If the only thing a brand new, fresh, just off the level 50 grind, green PvPer has to look forward to is getting pwned hard as soon as they que for warzones simply because they don't have the gear even though they have much more skill than your spamming tracer missile, or grave round then they will quit.

 

All you will be left with is the same half-witted, mouth breathers you always do in PvP.

 

You confsed whom you are adressing, hardcore PvPers dont give tidbit of importance to better gear and generally like playing on even battlefield in power AND skill when it comes to competitive PvP.

Ive beaten some undergeared noobs. Big deal. But...Im not OP.

 

That implies that GW2 is supposedly light years ahead of other MMOs when in actuality it isn't. It is heavily instanced, classes are not equal, and it will come down to cookie cutter specs just like the other games.

 

Its all about meta in GW. And you would know that if you ever got into it.

 

Pretty much yeah, its the same logic of any sport. Or do you think that Messi would play like he plays if he was allways skiping the trainings? Practice makes perfection.

 

Eh? I can pit gazzillion other football players to train same amount of time as Messi and guess what? They STILL wont be as good as him.

 

Hell, ill make that gazzillion players train 2 times more than Messi and they STILL wont play as good.

 

But its a bad argument from the start.

 

seems like a lot of people are breaking their NDA for GW2 beta they have..oh wait, since no one here has played it, stop talking like its going to kill anything, because for 1. you sound the same as this games fanboys. With diablo 3 and WoW's new expansion around the corner...good luck

 

Press dont have NDA, and you can read/wtach all about it. They dont hide anything.

 

No info not available from press has been mentioned here

Edited April 5, 2012 by GrandMike

[Can-Vi]

seems like a lot of people are breaking their NDA for GW2 beta they have..oh wait, since no one here has played it, stop talking like its going to kill anything, because for 1. you sound the same as this games fanboys. With diablo 3 and WoW's new expansion around the corner...good luck

 

Actualy i did play it, and saying that i played it its not violating the NDA.

[Delcon]

but on paper, initial videos gw2 has a very good orvr system

that is what i and other guilds came to stor for and what was advertised ,

 

now that has been abandoned here we are just waiting to go there to play , no subscription is a bonus

 

Gear is good but as long as the game play and objectives work people wont worry about no gear progression ,

 

best times in WAR was when everyone was max lvl 80 ,

[Nemmar]

All gear worthless since its all freebie come 1.2...Who wants to pay a monthly sub for no progression just welfare for all? PvP just lost its carrot on a stick thanks for killing this game faster than Rift BW....

 

What exactly is your problem?

 

You can buy a pvp gear set that is worse than current champion gear and theres new sets to grind for. That is so new players arent ROFL stomped by you when they first join PvP.

 

Now remind me again why exactly you are QQ'ing because you dont have a case at all.

[KhealThar]

seems like a lot of people are breaking their NDA for GW2 beta they have..oh wait, since no one here has played it, stop talking like its going to kill anything, because for 1. you sound the same as this games fanboys. With diablo 3 and WoW's new expansion around the corner...good luck

 

Diablo 3 won't compete with any MMO ever lmao

 

 

WoW is actually going to be in trouble with GW2, it's the only MMO in the last 5 years that has actually tested end game content, offered a different leveling experience than quests and actually separates pve and pvp so they can balance both.

 

They plan on making it an e-sport, allow you to dodge spells, allow you to COMBINE spells with different classes to make more powerful ones (ie: Elementalist summoning a fire wall to allow a Ranger to shoot arrows of fire through it.)

 

The world is actually ALIVE, and beautiful. WvWvW PVP, for all the DaoC fans.

 

 

The only way this game can fail is if it is as clunky and unresponsive as SWTOR, and they add 498238998498 stuns to the game with no DR.

[roysterer]

So many people are talking about new players with crap gear vs. older players with good gear. But that's not actually how it works. It's teams of both old and new players against each other. It doesn't suck for the players with crap gear. It sucks for all the players on the team with the most under-geared players. A rank 0 guy with quest gear could be on a team that totally dominates, while a rank 70 guy in full BM could be on a team that gets destroyed.

 

I want more gear parity so matches are more even. It's not fun losing by a lot and it's not fun winning by a lot. Close matches are fun.

[MuchoMacho]

To much whining!

 

PvP shouldn't be about gear, but a carrot is definiately worth having.

Showoff is a part of of any MMO, maybe not for all players but I dare to say for a whole lot. Doing great in a singleplayer game just isnt enough me, and Im sure alot of ppl agree.

For pve its been titles, achievements, mounts etc. For PvP its been titles, rating, a few percent better gear, and pwning other players in battlegrounds/warzones.

 

For pvp swtor which doesnt have a working Rating system as of yet, we can exclude titles(except grinding ones which tbh in my opinion is a very valid title, just think about battlemaster in WoW. Thats showoff!) and rating. We are then left with better gear and pwning players.

 

That was the carrots at launch which, obviously doesnt satisfy most people in the long run. The main problem was that the gearscaling was horrible! Lets face it, Centurion vs BM is useless. I for one laugh once or twice when I pwn undergeared players, but I enjoy more when the match is equal.

 

so what do they do?

Implement Rating and matching equally ranked ppl. - good for everyone

Fixing gearscaling - good for everyone.

 

Still, completely removing carrots like 2-5% better gear for the best players is in my opionion stupid. I dont mind fighting people with 5% better gear. They have earned it!

Only problem though(which also exists in wow) is that once you get high rated its easier to stay high next season because you already got an edge. This won't affect 10v10 as much as 3v3 obviously.

 

This is all good and those who want to keep the rediculous gear advantage they have now on new players simply should be ignored.

 

With a cross-server function, and a well-functioned rating system this should be pretty awesome. Only time can tell, but I wont judge them on that yet. They better hurry though!

[Silwyth]

Diablo 3 won't compete with any MMO ever lmao

 

 

WoW is actually going to be in trouble with GW2, it's the only MMO in the last 5 years that has actually tested end game content, offered a different leveling experience than quests and actually separates pve and pvp so they can balance both.

 

They plan on making it an e-sport, allow you to dodge spells, allow you to COMBINE spells with different classes to make more powerful ones (ie: Elementalist summoning a fire wall to allow a Ranger to shoot arrows of fire through it.)

 

The world is actually ALIVE, and beautiful. WvWvW PVP, for all the DaoC fans.

 

 

The only way this game can fail is if it is as clunky and unresponsive as SWTOR, and they add 498238998498 stuns to the game with no DR.

 

Abilities are very responsive. Movement on the other hand was designed to be clunky strafing/jumping slows you down and your character will literally slow down to a stop before walking backwards.

[Ewgal]

If SWTOR ends up being 1/3 as good of a PvP game as GW2 I would be shocked...and I actually enjoy, at times, the PvP in SWTOR.

 

A lot of GW2 is their RvR stuff (3 servers) and to be honest it seems very casual as lvl 1 + players get boosted to max lvl cap players. Bioware would have to go back to the PvP boost system for everyone 1-50 as they had at launch. As it is there is a PvP progression and incoming content to PvP on a regular basis. That is more than you will get in GW2.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ewgal

[Foenixz]

If SWTOR ends up being 1/3 as good of a PvP game as GW2 I would be shocked...and I actually enjoy, at times, the PvP in SWTOR.

 

SWTOR has pretty much tryed to copy successful parts of many MMOs, so I guess it was just about time they got around to ones that will be their ultimate demise.

 

Have fun crafting all that grey dye and then broadcasting for hours in general about it

[mordredz]

Diablo 3 won't compete with any MMO ever lmao

 

 

WoW is actually going to be in trouble with GW2, it's the only MMO in the last 5 years that has actually tested end game content, offered a different leveling experience than quests and actually separates pve and pvp so they can balance both.

 

They plan on making it an e-sport, allow you to dodge spells, allow you to COMBINE spells with different classes to make more powerful ones (ie: Elementalist summoning a fire wall to allow a Ranger to shoot arrows of fire through it.)

 

The world is actually ALIVE, and beautiful. WvWvW PVP, for all the DaoC fans.

 

 

The only way this game can fail is if it is as clunky and unresponsive as SWTOR, and they add 498238998498 stuns to the game with no DR.

 

GW2 is free, let me remind you, free after you buy it, it wont have the content any other mmo has, what you see when it ships is what you get for quite awhile, wow has been losing subs for over a year now, anything decent and new will take away from that...

 

So enjoy your GW cause you do get what you pay for and thats 60 bucks of fun...

[Gorrdan]

Back in the day ppl were willing to put time into earning gear, sadly now the entitlement generation has started playing mmo's and has ruined WOW and many other games.

The entitlement generation feels they should have everything right now with no work on a silver platter...

 

I think this generation got it right and are lot more smarter compared to your generation which think that 'working' in a game is supposed to be fun.

 

Thank God we are moving away from this mentality of basement dwellers. Can't wait for GW2 and it skill based PVP.

[Darth_Philar]

I just love watching all the rage on the forums from the people who are terrible at PvP and needed a gear advantage to compete.

 

Now that gear is being normalized through easy access, tactics, strategy, and skill will determine the winner.

 

This is what PvP is supposed to be about. What you had before was just faster paced PvE.

[Can-Vi]

Eh? I can pit gazzillion other football players to train same amount of time as Messi and guess what? They STILL wont be as good as him.

 

Hell, ill make that gazzillion players train 2 times more than Messi and they STILL wont play as good.

 

But its a bad argument from the start.

 

So basicaly what you are saying is that Messi only depends on natural talent, he can skip all the trainings and still plays as good as he plays?... good one.

Ofc if 2 players play the same amount of time one will be better than the other, but even so any of them will play better than a casual player, no matter the gear.

If you say its a bad argument who am i to say the oposite? afterall you are the high eminence of all ancient, present and future knowledge. ^^

[DarkDruidSS]

Going to chime in on the GW2 thing. People keep spouting FREE FREE FREE like it means anything. Yes, once you buy the game the online is free, BUT (this is the important part) all future content release will be PAY to download. So $60 for the initial game. 3 months down the line you buy an expac for $40-60. That is $100-120 in 3 months. Estimated yes I know, but realistic for the current game market.

 

SWTOR would have been $60 then 2 months is $30... $90. It's all relatively the same and if GW2 doesn't come out with expacs on a regular basis then your game will die... it's just how games work now. Look at COD or BF3... if they don't constantly release expacs (map packs/game modes) then the community dies. The same will happen to GW2. The years past of people waiting 6 months to a year for new content is long dead and gone.

 

The reality is that you pay almost the same price for both types of games. The difference is minimal. SWTOR will be constantly updated. I will stick with SWTOR.

 

Oh and of course expacs are optional, but like COD or BF3... are you really not going to buy the expac? Of course you are going to buy it. So don't kid yourself.

 

Not to mention that GW2 will have a microtransaction store. So it will be anything, but free to play.

[Orangerascal]

GW2 is free, let me remind you, free after you buy it, it wont have the content any other mmo has, what you see when it ships is what you get for quite awhile, wow has been losing subs for over a year now, anything decent and new will take away from that...

 

So enjoy your GW cause you do get what you pay for and thats 60 bucks of fun...

 

Guild wars 2 will launch expansions every 6 months to offset the development cost. Think of is as buying a 6 month sub.

 

And if you're a PVPer and not playing GW2, then you'll be missing out.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Gorrdan]

Going to chime in on the GW2 thing. People keep spouting FREE FREE FREE like it means anything. Yes, once you buy the game the online is free, BUT (this is the important part) all future content release will be PAY to download. So $60 for the initial game. 3 months down the line you buy an expac for $40-60. That is $100-120 in 3 months. Estimated yes I know, but realistic for the current game market.

 

SWTOR would have been $60 then 2 months is $30... $90. It's all relatively the same and if GW2 doesn't come out with expacs on a regular basis then your game will die... it's just how games work now. Look at COD or BF3... if they don't constantly release expacs (map packs/game modes) then the community dies. The same will happen to GW2. The years past of people waiting 6 months to a year for new content is long dead and gone.

 

The reality is that you pay almost the same price for both types of games. The difference is minimal. SWTOR will be constantly updated. I will stick with SWTOR.

 

Oh and of course expacs are optional, but like COD or BF3... are you really not going to buy the expac? Of course you are going to buy it. So don't kid yourself.

 

Not to mention that GW2 will have a microtransaction store. So it will be anything, but free to play.

 

You are assuming a lot here that GW2 will release an expac every 3 months. Also you are ignoring item shop which will make for most of the profit. In the long run GW2 is still cheaper compared to SWTOR unless you believe GW2 will keep releasing xpacs every 3 months as long as it is functional?

 

I have been playing GW2 for 5 years now and including all of its expansions it is still cheaper compared to say 5 years of WOW.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Jorges]

Guild wars 2 will launch expansions every 6 months to offset the development cost. Think of is as buying a 6 month sub.

 

And if you're a PVPer and not playing GW2, then you'll be missing out.

 

I haven't heard anything about expansions yet from Anet, other than it will not be standalone. Where did you get this information?

[Orangerascal]

I haven't heard anything about expansions yet from Anet, other than it will not be standalone. Where did you get this information?

 

Guild wars used the same model, and the devs have stated the gw2 business model might be the same.

 

Read:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2

 

'Mike O'Brien has stated that expansions and/or mini-expansions are more likely than standalone campaigns, but a final decision has not been made yet'

 

I'll place money we will see a similar business model because ... it worked.

 

Unless of course a massive amount of their revenue comes from microtransactions ... in that case we all win. I think they are trying to determine if the cash shop is viable.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Gorrdan]

I haven't heard anything about expansions yet from Anet, other than it will not be standalone. Where did you get this information?

 

Assumptions as usual.

[DarkDruidSS]

You are assuming a lot here that GW2 will release an expac every 3 months. Also you are ignoring item shop which will make for most of the profit. In the long run GW2 is still cheaper compared to SWTOR unless you believe GW2 will keep releasing xpacs every 3 months as long as it is functional?

 

I have been playing GW2 for 5 years now and including all of its expansions it is still cheaper compared to say 5 years of WOW.

 

No I'm not assuming a lot. I am going by current market trends for online gamers. If you think it will be any different then you are in denial. The simple fact is that games have to release content to keep players. Regardless of if it is 3 or 4 months down the line... let me continue my math for you so you can see.

 

If they waited 4 months... which by most market standards would be about the limit a community can tolerate before they abandon a game... hell look at these forums with people saying BW isn't releasing enough and they have a full game update 4 months after release (HAHA funny that 3-4 month timeline holds true).... SO

 

$60 for the initial game. 4 months down the line another $40-60. Still $100-120 in 4 months.

 

Now SWTOR $60 (first month free) so you add 3 months which is $45. 4 months is $105. OMG STILL AROUND THE SAME PRICE... imagine that.

 

Now if GW2 waits 6 months then you saved money.. but the community will be dead.. so who cares?

[richardya]

This is the dumbest argument.

There is no reason you can not have gear progression and have it be moderate.

It's amazing that this thread and topic goes on and on and no one mentions this.

 

If you can't deal with someone having 2-4% better stats than you, maybe it's not the reason you are losing.

If you need more than a 2-4% gear differential to enjoy progression than the truth is you really do want an advantage that ruins PvP for lesser geared people.

[Gorrdan]

No I'm not assuming a lot. I am going by current market trends for online gamers. If you think it will be any different then you are in denial. The simple fact is that games have to release content to keep players. Regardless of if it is 3 or 4 months down the line... let me continue my math for you so you can see.

 

If they waited 4 months... which by most market standards would be about the limit a community can tolerate before they abandon a game... hell look at these forums with people saying BW isn't releasing enough and they have a full game update 4 months after release (HAHA funny that 3-4 month timeline holds true).... SO

 

$60 for the initial game. 4 months down the line another $40-60. Still $100-120 in 4 months.

 

Now SWTOR $60 (first month free) so you add 3 months which is $45. 4 months is $105. OMG STILL AROUND THE SAME PRICE... imagine that.

 

Now if GW2 waits 6 months then you saved money.. but the community will be dead.. so who cares?

 

You are still assuming and pulling stuff out of your know where. What makes you think that GW2 would be dead in 6 months? did you even manage to check the amount of content it is releasing with? the 3 side PVP and 1500 scalable dynamic events has lot more replay ability than WOW and SWTOR combined at release.

 

Also, i will just go with existing example of GW, it was released in 2005, 7 years later it has released 3 separate expansions and one small booster pack. Even if it cost me around 200 bucks to get it all and i played it for 7 years it is still hell lot of cheaper than paying sub for WOW for 7 years and purchasing all the expansions.

 

Also comparison with SWTOR in first 4 to 6 months is pointless because we are talking about value of money in long run. And GW is perfect example that how it is hell lot cheaper to play a B2P MMO compared to a P2P model especially if you play for a very long time.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Gorrdan