How badly do I need the 30% snare on Rupture?

[muradi]

Thinking...

vs

Scoundrel healer - yes, need very much

Sage - yes I need

Gunslingers - don't need at all

Scoundrel mdps - don't need

Commando lolspammer - don't need at all

Commando healer - don't need

Powertech - don't need

Guardian - don't need

Sent - don't need

Assassin - don't need

 

Makes me think hmm. Maybe get something else for those 2 points and use legsweep on sages and healer scoundrels.

[lollermittens]

Wha...?

 

You need some kind of slow for all the classes you've listed. All of the idiots who are ranged classes and just sit stationary when you're offloading all your damage on them don't know how to play their class, have a pocket healer, are lazy, or are just overpowered BH/Troopers that mitigate half your damage.

 

Crippling Slash is a skill that leaves to be desired since it's not off the GCD and that 50% slow is not very high but I like Rupture much more in an Anni spec since Annihilate and Vicious Slash have the possibility of refreshing the CD which makes it a spammable snare with good damage attached to it.

 

Although I see a lot of Anni spec who skip on the 30% slow of Rupture which is understandable since the classes who have a permanent 15% run speed increase are barely affected by that slow and instead invest the points into Malice, Predation, Phantom or whatever. It's all viable and up to your preference/playstyle.

 

PS - of course other melee classes (Sin/Jugg/Mara) will fight you on the spot but puting a slow on them is important in case they try to run away to pick up a health pack or that DPS boost item.

Edited March 2, 2012 by lollermittens

[Naethion]

The points could be better spent elsewhere definitely. Crippling slash may not be off the GCD, but its definitely better.

[CrazyAl]

i was never a fan of seeping wound, i never found it necessary, so i never used it

 

so in the interest of fairness (or not judging a book by its cover) or whatever other reason might apply, i decided to try out seeping wound

 

my conclusion is ... its nice but not necessary, imo you can spend the points elsewhere

 

but if you are someone that cant hack having to use a snare as a separate GCD/rage spender ... well i wont eat your lunch for thinking you need seeping wound

[malispar]

You save wasting rage into Crippling Slash while applying one of your key bleeds. I don't even know why this is a question.

[lollermittens]

You save wasting rage into Crippling Slash while applying one of your key bleeds. I don't even know why this is a question.

 

This is how I feel regarding Seeping Wounds as well... if you're going Anni spec and you're not investing points into Seeping Wounds, you're gimping yourself given that Rupture should be the third ability you cast in your rotation after (Charge if necessary) -> Deadly Saber -> Battering Assault -> Rupture -> Annihilate -> etc.

[CrazyAl]

You save wasting rage into Crippling Slash while applying one of your key bleeds. I don't even know why this is a question.

 

you save wasting 2 talent points on a slow that lasts half as long and slows by much less

 

i dont even know why this is a question

 

 

see what i did there?

 

 

but seriously, the slow on rupture is terrible ... yes its automatic, but its still a terrible slow

 

plus, more than half the time you dont actually need to slow someone anyway, cause they arent running

 

if you need to slow them, then hit them with crippling, if they dont run then those 2 points you put in seeping wounds are doing absolutely nothing for you

[Naethion]

you save wasting 2 talent points on a slow that lasts half as long and slows by much less

 

i dont even know why this is a question

 

 

see what i did there?

 

 

but seriously, the slow on rupture is terrible ... yes its automatic, but its still a terrible slow

 

plus, more than half the time you dont actually need to slow someone anyway, cause they arent running

 

if you need to slow them, then hit them with crippling, if they dont run then those 2 points you put in seeping wounds are doing absolutely nothing for you

 

To add to this, if your bleeds get dispelled, there goes your slow. soooo.... yeah

[EasymodeX]

1r per 12s per point against opponents that aren't terrible, and 1GCD per 8 for two points, or +10% DPS.

[lollermittens]

you save wasting 2 talent points on a slow that lasts half as long and slows by much less

 

i dont even know why this is a question

 

 

see what i did there?

 

 

but seriously, the slow on rupture is terrible ... yes its automatic, but its still a terrible slow

 

plus, more than half the time you dont actually need to slow someone anyway, cause they arent running

 

if you need to slow them, then hit them with crippling, if they dont run then those 2 points you put in seeping wounds are doing absolutely nothing for you

 

Do you guys even PvP at all? Or do you PvP in the 10-49 bracket? Because the moment I sic on a ranged target with my Marauder, people start kiting me.

[CrazyAl]

Do you guys even PvP at all? Or do you PvP in the 10-49 bracket? Because the moment I sic on a ranged target with my Marauder, people start kiting me.

 

play better? /shrug

[Foxcolt]

Seeping wounds is only good if you're lazy and bad. Or just bad...or just really lazy. Edited March 2, 2012 by Foxcolt

[AcaciaDragon]

Thinking...

vs

Scoundrel healer - yes, need very much

Sage - yes I need

Gunslingers - don't need at all

Scoundrel mdps - don't need

Commando lolspammer - don't need at all

Commando healer - don't need

Powertech - don't need

Guardian - don't need

Sent - don't need

Assassin - don't need

 

Makes me think hmm. Maybe get something else for those 2 points and use legsweep on sages and healer scoundrels.

 

A slow is a Slow, and when its automaticly put on a target using an ability your spec revolves around, id say its pretty worth it. Do you really want to spend more rage and an extra GCD just to slow them?

[Naethion]

Honestly its just a matter of preference. If you suck at managing your rage, then the slow on bleed may be for you. I don't have problem micro-managing my rage, so spending some on a better slow is fine by me

[EasymodeX]

So what you're saying is that you normally end up pooling rage because you're poor at spending it? Or that you just like doing less damage?

[malispar]

Seeping wounds is only good if you're lazy and bad. Or just bad...or just really lazy.

 

Oh go away.

 

You don't need much uptime on the target to lay out some hefty damage. This just keeps you on the target for longer.

 

Please enlighten me where the 2 points are better spent? 1 more rage from charge? more fury from killing enemies? The only remotely useful talent is getting 2/2 Subjugation which is subjective at best.

 

I don't see how spending less time dealing damage to a target with a built-in slow implies laziness. Quality post.

[hadoken]

The only remotely useful talent is getting 2/2 Subjugation which is subjective at best.

 

Still not getting this mentality.

[Foxcolt]

Oh go away.

 

You don't need much uptime on the target to lay out some hefty damage. This just keeps you on the target for longer.

 

Please enlighten me where the 2 points are better spent? 1 more rage from charge? more fury from killing enemies? The only remotely useful talent is getting 2/2 Subjugation which is subjective at best.

 

I don't see how spending less time dealing damage to a target with a built-in slow implies laziness. Quality post.

 

You're talking about a 6 second 30% slow..

 

Almost every other slow applied to you is more than 30% so if you're being kited by anyone with half a brain you'll end up using crippling anyways which invalidates those 2 talent points right there.

 

And unless you're terrible the only class that can really even kite you are scoundrels/ops spec'd into their purge..which guess what? Purges your useless slow as well once it gets rid of your bleeds. And since they can spam it for the heal you'll be unable to catch them unless you use crippling..again..rendering those 2 talent points you spent useless.

 

Crippling is 50% and lasts twice as long...you're wasting 2 talent points that have infinitely better uses (if you can't think of where they could better be spent than that's your problem) on something that really is only making up for what seems to be a L2P issue.

 

Also..crippling applies DS..so you aren't sacrificing a GCD but an amount of damage for higher uptime on your target should you choose to apply crippling.

 

So yeah..lazy or bad..or both.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Foxcolt

[malispar]

Hold on here, now we're going past discussion about whether a talent is worth it, and now telling "L2P". I don't have any issues dealing damage on my Marauder, slowing people, being kited, the whole nine yards.

 

This discussion is supposed to be about whether we should choose to have a talented slow, over using an already existing ability. Not about who is lazier.

 

Like I was saying, I'd prefer to deal damage while applying a slow to a target. I don't need a 50%, 30% is just fine. Your argument about bleeds being purged is totally valid. I would agree with you there. However, I simply disagree that having a free slow is something to just write off, and that people are "lazy or bad" to use it.

[Foxcolt]

Hold on here, now we're going past discussion about whether a talent is worth it, and now telling "L2P". I don't have any issues dealing damage on my Marauder, slowing people, being kited, the whole nine yards.

 

This discussion is supposed to be about whether we should choose to have a talented slow, over using an already existing ability. Not about who is lazier.

 

Like I was saying, I'd prefer to deal damage while applying a slow to a target. I don't need a 50%, 30% is just fine. Your argument about bleeds being purged is totally valid. I would agree with you there. However, I simply disagree that having a free slow is something to just write off, and that people are "lazy or bad" to use it.

 

Right I hear ya, but it's not free that's the point..you are sacrificing 2 talent points that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

Being kited isn't really that much of an issue in this game as it has been in others...in team play I rarely even use crippling as it's just not needed (good ops/scoundrels aside). In 1v1's or duels I certainly weave it into my rotation especially against sorcs and vanguards/powertechs.

 

In the end I'd be willing to say that if you spec'd out of it you wouldn't even notice. We have so many other tools at our disposal to prevent being kited that it just isn't worth the 2 talent points invested. That's my argument.

[Zoah]

Global Cooldowns are precious Crippling Slash does **** damage, if you're trying to burst someone down you're going to do it slower if you have to throw crippling slash in there too.

[lollermittens]

Global Cooldowns are precious Crippling Slash does **** damage, if you're trying to burst someone down you're going to do it slower if you have to throw crippling slash in there too.

 

Thank you.

 

I can't believe people are arguing over the utility of a built-in snare that's added on top of an ability that could roughly do more than 3k damage if Berserk is up (4k if you crit with the initial Rupture hit).

 

As an Anni Marauder, you will be using Rupture around the clock. And with the added slow, I don't have to worry about sneaking in an extra ability. We already have enough abilities to manage on limited rage.

 

Bottom line is that it does become a matter of preference (if you'd like to have two points in Phantom, or Subjugation, or Predation, or Defensive Roll, or whatever) for many players, but for me, I just can't pass such an ability.

[-Vexus-]

Needed? I don't think so, no. But, I use it and like it. I came back for it instead of Ferocity. My rationale is this--Almost every decent player I attack will try to run or kite me, so any snare is good, and if I know they're fast, I always have Crippling Slash as well. Most foes do not escape, and sometimes it's the snare from Seeping Wound that gives me just enough time to make sure I get the kill.

 

Obviously, Juyo Mastery and Hungering are better choices, but I ended up taking all 3 and skipping Ferocity to get my 31 points in the Annihilation tree and I have no complaints. I probably notice it most when fighting other Marauders, because they rarely have it and I dictate the fight. If I'm winning, they only escape if they Force Cloak. If I'm losing, that snare often lets me get away. Yeah, I like it.

[getdownsb]

So much /facepalm in here.

 

1. To the guy that said Subjugate isnt worth it, you're wrong and you probably wonder why you have so much trouble with healers and casters.

 

2. To the people stating that Crippling Slash poses rage management issues, you are doing something really wrong. Ahinnialation is a rage a fury battery and constantly has unspent rage that needs to be converted to output. You should be trying to figure out how to stay low rage while dictating the fight vs most classes.

 

3. To the people stating that the loss of 1 GCD for an Ahni Marauder has any great impact I suspect that you lack the macro picture of the class. Ahni is a controll class, it doesn't have nor rely on burst. Burst is an Op opening from stealth, stunlocking a person and killing them in 6 globals. Burst is a PT Pyro hitting you with railshot > rocketpunch > railshot with their TD going off during that and critting, dumping 10k into you in 3-4 globals.

 

Ahni is a control class, it likes to dot someone up, force them to engage, debuff, use Def CDs to cancel burst and render the person useless, get big health returns and sustain damage at a level that can't be mitigated in a drawn out fight. They're also a skirmisher class, they excell at picking off stragglers, forcing healers to let their team die and being very difficult to kill and/or get rid of.

 

Now, seeping wound. It has it's place. IMO that place is in the newbie to intermediate players build. I say this because that level of player has several deficiencies they need to overcome and seeping wound works like a crutch. This level of player struggles with ability management, resource management, dot & debuff uptime, proper use of defensive Cds, doesn't know every build and playstyle of their enemies, and hasn't built up both the natural feel of the CDs/rage and a repritor of memories of habits that specific players and classes have.

 

Seeping wound helps simplify a lot of this. You have a snare as a standard part of your opener, you don't need to micromanage rage as much, you essentially snare first and ask questions later. However if you move toward the expert level of play you don't need any of this. 2 rage and 1 GCD is easily managed and nets you a better snare use situationally and 2 extra skill points which is extremely valuable.

 

This level player is perfectly comfortable going charge > slash > BA > DS and working frommthere. You also realize that not every fight calls for an opening snare. For instance, why snare any melee, if they kite they're not having any impact on you and you're still in control. Some players will notoriously not kite, or do it poorly. A lot of casters will happily sit ther and face cast while you go to town. Some players will kite but only to attempt to brake contact, you are taking them away from the fight and likely support and can chose to presue or not.

 

At least that's my take on it. I don't claim to be amazing but I regularly have full permades making me their prime target, which I'd say is smart because if left alone I'll kill all the healers then all of them.

Edited March 3, 2012 by getdownsb

[CrazyAl]

^ this guy gets it