Tankassin PVP

[Cowflab]

OK, so I am incredibly frustrated with people putting out bad information on the forums so I logged in my Assassin and checked values on several attacks and here is the difference in damage you will see when using a shield and a focus.

 

_____________SHIELD__________FOCUS

 

Shock_______1318-1392________1409-1483

Wither_______1070-1177________1147-1255

Lightning_______2387_____________2547

 

Now take into consideration you will crit a ton in this spec with full Stalker gear and the 4 set bonus adding a charge and reducing the CD on Recklessness. So the damage difference is doubled much of the time.

 

So in conclusion 4-6 damage per GCD is just WRONG! And last I check 35% to shield 20% damage is 7% damage mitigation on ONLY the attacks that are able to be shielded which is WAY less than half so it more like a 2-3% damage mitigation.

 

*edit to make numbers more easily read.

 

Thanks for putting rough numbers to what I was trying to tell him. It is far more than a 7 point increase, and as he stated, most skirms give you about 10-20 gcds. Unless you get freakishly gibbed that's about a 1000-3000 damage increase over that duration. Which, at least imo trump 510 HP and a 35% chance to absorb 20% of a white attack.

[ZyrenDelacroix]

This was one of my main questions. I see everyone putting the 2 points into torment, but I feel in most pvp situations I am poping Spike and Electrocute every CD so why not buff them as hard as I can. Especially if its a ball carrier in Huttball and everyone is focusing them, 9% damage from ALL sources is pretty huge.

 

It still seems like Torment is better. It saves you a considerable amount of force.

 

Meanwhile, Spike gives you about 1 GCD (for everyone attacking, to be fair) at 9% more damage every 20 seconds (assuming you use it every CD). Electrocute would give an additional 9% damage for 2-3 GCDs every minute (which isn't that amazing), but generally a huttball carrier will wait to CC break the long CCs when it means he/she is going to have a full resolve bar.

 

It just seems like Torment is the superior choice.

Edited March 5, 2012 by ZyrenDelacroix

[Abiza]

OK, so I am incredibly frustrated with people putting out bad information on the forums

 

That **** is rampant in the class forums. Makes me rage too . On another note, thank you for doing some quick leg work and posting it. It's appreciated.

 

There's another thread in here where some guy posted an entire guide FULL of bad information and refuses to accept that everyone in the thread telling him otherwise is correct. What's worse is that new assassin read this crap, buy into it, and they hurt themselves and everyone around them all while continuing to spread the bad info.

 

It's like a plague.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Abiza

[Astarica]

What I don't get is why don't people just read the tooltip information in the game, since it tells you exactly what the damage turns out to be. If you simply read the before/after numbers with a focus, it should be rather obvious how much DPS you're giving up for losing the focus. You don't have to know what formulas are involved here. Just read your damage tooltips.

[Okema]

Seems like an overall nice build, but isn't the 6 Force decrease of Shock more worth taking?

 

I can imagine that you are kinda force starving if a fight takes longer.

 

Question: Premonition is only for white damage too, right?

Edited March 6, 2012 by Okema

[Haphaman]

Seems like an overall nice build, but isn't the 6 Force decrease of Shock more worth taking?

 

I can imagine that you are kinda force starving if a fight takes longer.

 

Question: Premonition is only for white damage too, right?

 

The 2 best specs IMO are 31/0/10 and 29/0/12. One is full single target for when in a premade and you dont want to be breaking CCs and the other has Wither which is awesome!

 

31/0/10.. Force Lightning (3 charges) > Shock > Wither > Discharge > Saber

 

29/0/12.. Force Lightning (3 charges) > Shock > Thrash > Saber

 

Both specs thrive with a focus and the 4 set bonus giving recklessness an extra charge and reducing its CD by 15 seconds.

[Astarica]

Premonition works even on Tech/Force attack, though unless your opponent has removed all his accuracy mods, he'll usually have 2% from his gear somewhere to overcome your 2%. It is useful against Sorcs who do not have accuracy on their gear at all.

 

Deception really doesn't synergize meaningfully with Darkness so usually cheaper Shock is about the best you can get. It's not as good as it looks but there's really nothing better to get, and the low 10s talents in Madness are better than Deception talents if you don't go 31 in Darkness anyway.

 

I don't think 29/0/12 makes much sense just for the sake of not breaking CC. You can always switch to Thrash if you're CCing someone. Each person can only CC one guy every minute so it's not exactly a common occurence, and the enemy can and probably should CC break out of Whirlwinds.

[Haphaman]

Our premade uses CC all the time, maybe your bads you run with dont. 29/0/12 has WAY more damage than 31/0/10 not using Wither or Discharge. And in 1.2 with 8 people rated premades, dont think about popping an AoE.

[Pwnyride]

Our premade uses CC all the time, maybe your bads you run with dont. 29/0/12 has WAY more damage than 31/0/10 not using Wither or Discharge. And in 1.2 with 8 people rated premades, dont think about popping an AoE.

 

What are u putting your extra 2 points into in the darkness tree that you would give up dark embrace? 2% endurance? If you are going for dps 27/2/12 due to the amount of extreme force regen when exiting stealth.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Pwnyride

[iiconik]

It still seems like Torment is better. It saves you a considerable amount of force.

 

Meanwhile, Spike gives you about 1 GCD (for everyone attacking, to be fair) at 9% more damage every 20 seconds (assuming you use it every CD). Electrocute would give an additional 9% damage for 2-3 GCDs every minute (which isn't that amazing), but generally a huttball carrier will wait to CC break the long CCs when it means he/she is going to have a full resolve bar.

 

It just seems like Torment is the superior choice.

 

How do you feel about 2 points into Dark Embrace instead of Torment?

[Skorpeo]

How do you feel about 2 points into Dark Embrace instead of Torment?

 

It would help with initial burst, but if your target doesnt die after 6 secs, you will be force starved trying to build up your 3 stacks. I look at it like this. Something that helps me for 90% of the time vs. something that helps me for 6 secs. Sure, it CAN be used in a productive form, but when facing BM equip players it may not be enough to burst them down fast enough. Not to mention if people start rolling their CC on you right out of stealth then it becomes a complete waste.

[_Melle_]

MODDING:Ditch all Accuracy mods. Ideally you want "Willpower/Endurance/Power" and "Endurance/Power/Surge" mods (the latter you get from BH or IA gear, depending on the endurance/power ratio you want - Why no accuracy? Most of your damage is force attack based, which there is close to 0 "defense" (resistance) against. As a Darkness Sin, you probably have 2% resistance: You put 2 points in Premonition (this is defense against all attacks, including Tech and Force, if you belive the in-game Character Sheet). So 2% accuracy is all you need to get 100% force hit percentage in a mirror match. Afaik other classes generally aren't better off in the resistance department.

 

(Alternate gearing opinion for DPS PVP)

[5/5 Stalker; take pieces based on the stats and pull out all the accuracy mods, since Accuracy + Power or Accuracy + Crit can only be replaced with Surge + Power or Surge + Crit. Stacking Surge is most advatageous. A vast majority of the attacks used are force attacks, so accuracy is not needed. Also push surge up to a base 70% then raise crit. Never take survivor. Tanking stats dont seem to have enough impact on PvP as pure damage stats. Best way to survive in PvP is through smart gamesplay, positioning, timing of CDs, and having a good team backing you up.]

 

What is BA and IA gear?

 

since Accuracy + Power or Accuracy + Crit can only be replaced with Surge + Power or Surge + Crit.

Where can I find Surge + Power or Surge + Crit.

I was looking around on all PvP BM vendors and didnt find any mods that I could use to switch out my accuracy mods. I dont want to use Champion gear.

Or did I miss something?

 

So it only Trash and Saber that have use of accuracy?

Edited March 6, 2012 by _Melle_

[Abiza]

What is BA and IA gear?

 

 

Where can I find Surge + Power or Surge + Crit.

I was looking around on all PvP BM vendors and didnt find any mods that I could use to switch out my accuracy mods. I dont want to use Champion gear.

Or did I miss something?

 

So it only Trash and Saber that have use of accuracy?

 

You purchase Bounty Hunter or Imperial Agent(BH/IA) gear with commendations after you've got your first set of champ/BM gear, strip the enhancements and place them into your pieces that are carrying accuracy.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Abiza

[Astarica]

Mez effects give at least 3/4 of a resolve bar which means CC break out of them is as good as CC break out of a 4s stun. Granted usually I don't bother CC break out of it because someone will break it earlier but if the enemy team is actually that good, you might as well use your CC break for mezzes because the gain is better than breaking out of stuns (same resolve, but you start out undamaged instead of potentially near death).

[_Melle_]

You purchase Bounty Hunter or Imperial Agent(BH/IA) gear with commendations after you've got your first set of champ/BM gear, strip the enhancements and place them into your pieces that are carrying accuracy.

 

I looked before and I looked again.

I cant find any BM gear that have that enhancements they all have accuracy or alacrity.

Whats the name of that part?

[Abiza]

I looked before and I looked again.

I cant find any BM gear that have that enhancements they all have accuracy or alacrity.

Whats the name of that part?

 

If you're already carrying BM gear, most are replacing the enhancements from champ gear.

 

Just as an example, if you replace the BM stalker leg enhancement with the BH's Champ Eliminator legging you gain: 14 endurance, 19 power, and replace 37 crit for 48 surge. There are other options for enhancements as well. The key it so find the correct balance throughout while ditching the accuracy since 51 accuracy(a stat BW has literally said "my bad" about many times now) on a single enhancement holds way too much value.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Abiza

[iiconik]

ditching the accuracy since 51 accuracy(a stat BW has literally said "my bad" about many times now) on a single enhancement holds way too much value.

 

Haha... I like that

[_Melle_]

If you're already carrying BM gear, most are replacing the enhancements from champ gear.

 

Just as an example, if you replace the BM stalker leg enhancement with the BH's Champ Eliminator legging you gain: 14 endurance, 19 power, and replace 37 crit for 48 surge. There are other options for enhancements as well. The key it so find the correct balance throughout while ditching the accuracy since 51 accuracy(a stat BW has literally said "my bad" about many times now) on a single enhancement holds way too much value.

 

Yea ok.

I was looking for 58 enchantsments didnt want to use the lower 56 on champion gear, but I guess there is no 58 we can use. So you need to go with the lower enchantsments on the champion gear.

But thanks a lot for the information.

 

I heard a good number to after is

critical chance 33% and critical multiplier 75%

any truth in that, or do you know were a good diminishing return point on those stats?

How much do you have on your gear?

[DarkRyval]

could someone link the 29/0/12 spec?

 

thanks

Edited March 7, 2012 by DarkRyval

[mkster]

OK guys want some facts on why wither is suppossed to be better than death field and the 50% bonus critical to thrash. I've used the 31/0/10 but right now I'm using what seems way better with a 27/0/14 build with death field and then 1 point in the reduced death field cost and two in the Inc thrash dmg. As of right now my thrash ALWAYS crits with only a 25ish critical rating.

 

I run full stalker and I just hit bm and am changing the mods for power and surge. Anyway my thrash crits on a normal basis without relics and adrenals for 1100 to 1600 lol obviously the 1600 are against less geared players but it seems like 1200 crita on full bm commandos for example is very good with each thrash dealing roughly 2400. And then it price my shock and at that time I pop adrenals and such for big shocks 3k to 4k lawl and then if chain shock procs that's another 2k ish. So I understand that wither gives another stack of harnessed darkness for super sweet heals and 1500 ticks from force lightning. But death field crits all the time and is aoe heals for 3% ya know you still win if you have 1% life and they have 0. What you got a runnning stealthing marauder?

 

Did I mention the 30yd range plus I get it all the time breaking others stealth which if they are an operative renders them useless without their opener. It still seems I can't get enough shock procs to stack for chain lightning heals fairly quick. I could see wither build being a tad better for continuous 1v1 or 2v1 for the quicker heals but I just don't want to give up my thrash. I read someone else earlier saying thrash sucks but come meet my thrash.... lol 1600 a swing is deadly . Plus I'd like to add that survivor gear blows.... I murder 22k HP full bm survivor assassins and shadows with my dinky 17k plus I use an endurance stimulus if I use willpower and power just adds more dps. With the survivor set they just don't have the dps to kill me.

 

The only class I have some trouble with is powertechs and vanguards who are well itemized .... 4300 railshots every 2 seconds just isn't right. Lol. But now that I have a pocket healer.. I can sacrifice some end. And survivability for more dps. I feel like I'm rambling just a little bit but I'm very well known on my server as the guy to avoid unless he's getting ********ed already. ANYWAY I would like some solid answers as to why everyone is 31/0/10 I could see more dps from faster force lightnings over death field also. And if that's the case can I pick up wither and drop DF vlbut still keep my ****** thrash?

Edited March 7, 2012 by mkster

[mkster]

Edit to the last part just looked at the build can't grab wither and "super thrash" so back to my original question

 

Thanks

[Abiza]

Edit to the last part just looked at the build can't grab wither and "super thrash" so back to my original question

 

Thanks

 

Wall of text crits your eyes for +9000. Please fix that so it's not so painful to read, and I'd be happy to help you.

[mkster]

Done lol sorry bout that. I'm on my phone and its hard to see what when and where I'm typing

[Abiza]

Done lol sorry bout that. I'm on my phone and its hard to see what when and where I'm typing

 

Thanks for the edit. I had two people message me in the forums yesterday about nearly the same thing lol.

 

To be honest, I don't think you're going to be able to find the concrete answers you're looking for. When I stand back and look at how successful both specs currently are under two slightly different playstyles and in the hands of a skilled player, no clear "better spec" exists in my eyes. I think both are great. I'm 31/0/10 right now, I've tried both, still not 100% sold on either.

 

I can tell you with certainty though, that when I solo queue(which is a lot more often these days as I'm putting a new vid together) I'd definitely rather be full darkness solely for withers contribution to FL heals. 3 stack HD FL heals is paramount in a 1v2 or 1v3 situation. As for the range of death field, it's never really appealed to me as a "must have." As tankassassins, we're already in the thick of it 99% of the time, though you do have a valid point about using it to break stealth, which can be useful.

 

Now, how often you come into situations like that depends on a lot of factors. Are you solo queues, do you have a healer, are you full premade, what kind of strat and in what WZ are you running, the list could go on and on. If you've tried both and had more success with what you're running now, stay that way and keep pwning.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Abiza

[mkster]

OK another question that has prob been asked way too much. But gearing lawl... I've seen a video with a guy wearing 4 piece stalker and chest as a rakata force user???? Alac? And he is also using a shield and he owns peoples face even 3v1 he has damage very similar to mine but he's a shhadow and I rarely see him using thrash ... but pumping out huge dmg.