"Unfortunately running logs in warzones is not a good idea. There are too many factors in play which will alter the relative performance of any particular spec for an iteration(one game may have many healers, another many tanks, in another you focus on objectives, etc). The only testing that can be done with any remote semblance to reality is on training dummies." "Your "feeling" in one warzone is not quantifiable and can't be regarded as an indication of anything. Providing numbers from a combat parser would be a start. " You can not simply go by a parser to indicate which spec is better in a PVP environment. Your OP provides data to find the highest DPS, sure that helps but a 10min parse with the difference of 40 dps one way or another still doesnt provide a clear out look on whats a better "PVP" spec. The only way to judge is by actually PVPing and using your own judgement on what seemed to work for you better. Seriously though, I just reread what I posted Friday night and I must have been drunk

Just did about 5 fights with the maul spec. I was energy capped a lot while waiting for CDs aswell as exploit weakness buff. I seemed to use saber stike a lot more then the thrash for energize spec. Overall damage was about the same. Saw a lot of familiar enemies during the night and they died just as fast as before. With the limited play I just experienced, the maul spec provided eqaulivent numbers. First pass is to say play the spec you feel more comfortable with

^ Good Point

Your right, I laugh at them when I see their double blade twirl like a baton

Trick Question! OPs is the answer

I know ive butted heads about this before. I do appreciate the info you have here. I would conclude that based on these numbers that the 3rd spec is the best of the 3 specs in terms of rawr DPS. I would also say with the Maul proc, it has the best potential for burst. I would argue this about #1 vs #2. #1 spec offers burst and #2 simply does not. The numbers are close, but the numbers are based on a 10min fight. Situationally #1 would kill somebody before #2 based on burst. 10 dps doesnt change much between thrash vs thrashless, with the exception that an energized shock can put more pressure on the target or the healers. Other then that, I will have to spec 31/1/9 and hopefully see targets die quicker. PS, Might want to make this statement a little more clear- "Typical pvp rotation: Assassinate > FL(3 stack HD) > shock(energize only) > wither > thrash > saber strike" Reading this makes me think the only shock that is used is an energized shock. Maybe add in the regular shock in the priority rotation.

I understand that. That has been theory crafted since Everquest (and probably before). Im just not comfortable with people saying that power has dimishing returns. I kind of remember when they changed % to Rating in WoW and it sparked the same arguement off. All of a sudden people were saying that a balance of the stats would mean that we get point for point, the best return. After awhile, once the theorycrafters interjected each class with each classes' different talents or abilities, they found that 1 stat can be more powerful then the others, and as such wouldnt see enough eventual loss to warrent using much of another stat. For Sin Tanks, based on our abilities and talents, we found that Accuracy isnt worth much because most our abilities are force based. Add in Energize and Recklessness, then Crit losses its luster. Surge as we know, falls off extremely after 75%, which is relatively easy to achieve. So the only stat that gives us the most clear advantage is power. Personally, I say stack it, though I would throw in some Willpower augments in to gain some crit while sacraficing a small amount of power.

Still waiting for a good mathematical reference for why Power has dimishing returns....

It shows for everybody. We first saw it in the fleet, then qued up just to mess with people. The other team was telling him stuff in general (imp vs imp). Im not sure what caused it, but I was inspecting him with my mouse on his boots while he switched boots. The bug might be tied to changing the boots while somebody is inspecting the boot change.

Same glitch happened to a friend on the server. We did the new WZ like that and he pretty much held the east node by himself because his attackers were freaked out lol.

"Charges your lightsaber with dark energy, giving your attacks a 50% chance to drain life force from the target, dealing 229 internal damage and healing you for 464. This effect cannot occur more than once every 4.5 seconds" So instead of your attacks having a 50% chance to proc a heal every 4.5 secs, you now have a 65% chance to proc. The internal CD (4.5 secs) has nothing to do with the chance for it to proc. Everytime you attack after that 4.5secs there is a roll of the die. You will either have a 50% chance to proc or at 65% to proc with talent for each attack until it procs. 6% more damage to Discharge every 15secs. Off of memory, discharge hits for about 1800 which is 108 more damage per target. Now we have to figure which is more important. 15% better chance to proc a heal AND internal damage every 4.5 secs or 100-125 more damage every 15secs? Keep in mind, that internal damage hit does more damage then your 6% of discharge, and it can proc 3.35 times at max within that 15secs of discharge. Napkin math tells me, if your at 50% then of those- your attacks would proc 1.68 in 15secs and I would proc 2.18 in 15secs. Which means I would almost always get 2 procs and you would be lucky to get 2 procs. Also, my shocks hardly ever have to wait for my force to build. SO yes, there is enough spare force during a fight to use thrash to proc energize.

In PVP means slight amount of initial burst added. For PVE, absolutely nothing since you should never let your energy cap out.

Hapaman, I understand you want to be a beautiful snowflake with your playstyle and spec, but honestly, your doing it wrong. I dont care what numbers you say you put up, you would still do better changing your spec and your playstyle. Try Shock -> Wither -> Discharge -> Shock -> FL, then next rotation, Shock -> Wither -> Thrash -> Shock -> FL. Mix in Saber when getting force starved during this rotation. Not to mention, when the target is almost dead and Assassnate and Shock is on CD, Thrash usually finishes them off. Opening up on the next target with an energized shock is a bonus. Also, Swelling Shadows >> Electric Execution. Getting the heal/debuff is much more important then the very small damage increase.

I agree with almost everything you said, but this spec is garbage for one simple reason. You didnt put 1 point into Energize. PLEASE ANYBODY WHO IS READING THIS, DONT GO OFF THIS SPEC! Put 1 of the points into Energize! http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIrokrskbsZZf0cM.1 is a good spec. The fillers to choose out of are Electric Execution, Shroud of Darkness, Dark Ward, and Nerve Wracking. Go with what your want your playstyle to be, but all the other talents are highly recommended.

Cheat Death remake? As long as they dont screw it up like Blizz did and make Expertise factor into it.

Thegriss, I wanted to thank you for the tip about the Rakata Med. I respecced for Hollow and really do see a nice benefit with stacking them both. Saved my butt a few times already.

Im curious about the 8k heath. Lets say my max HP pool is 20000. 20000 x 25% = 5000 HP. I would need a pool of 32000 HP to hit a 8k heal. All in all, with that trick of using OS + Rakata is probably worth me to spec into it again even if it is a 5k heal.

Im not using a shield at the moment, so I would only benefit 1800-2000 every 2mins. I wasnt comparing it to the FL heal, I was just saying the endurance HELPS with the FL healing, not to mention an extra 550-600 HP. I was comparing it to dark charge's heal. And Yes, If i used a shield then I would greatly benefit with Hollow. Im really considering going with a shield since 1.2, I am typically focused down on my server which I could deal with prior to 1.2, but since 1.2 I can really see a difference in my surv and it could be because of the 1.2 changes. Basically, My point is if your using a focus, then Hollow isnt all that great imo.

Im not a fan of Hollow. If you do the math on it, your dark charge heals you more then the 10% every 2mins. Can it be a life saver? Sure in a 1v1 fight, but when it comes down to being FF by more then 2 people it doesnt buy you much time at all. I put those 2 points into Endurance. More Endurance = More our FL heals us for since its based on total HPs.

I agree, set pieces for darkness probably weighs more mattering on each person's playstyle. Im messing with 4pc surv right now with all stalker armoring/mods to get the 5% bonus damage. Know what I miss most it seems? The 2pc stalker for more range on Force Slow. Watching my target get out of the 10m range and me not being able to catch up to them if Force Slow is on CD is a pita. Same could be said about the way you play with the 4pc FM bonus.

I would say the set bonuses are not. The 2pc is a waste. Im sorry, but for 0.5% health on an ability that isnt worth the cast time is useless. Sure the 15m Shock does help a lot, but I wouldnt trade the stalker set bonuses for the force-master specially when you will either replace the accuracy mods of the stalkers or the alacrity mods of the force masters. Now the offpieces, I would go Force masters relay and bracers then get the healer's implants. Basically, Everything stalkers with those 4 pieces being off-spec. On a finished build, we will have replaced the accuracy mods on the set pieces with power/crit.

Oh I know, I just spent almost half a mill credits on moving my BM Stalker armoring/mods/enhan to BM Surv gear for the 5% bonus while guarding. If I only knew this info before I did that.... Live and let learn. Well at least I dont blow any more credits on trying to swipe WH stalker armoring/mods/enhanc into the surv gear in hopes of getting the 5% bonus. Im kinda missing the 3 charge of recklessness anyway.

One of the reasons I joined the guild Im in is because the guild master is a jugg huttball carrier. I was getting really frustrated at watching him beat me time and time again lol. I got tired of saying "/ops GET OFF THE FREAKIN LEDGE WHEN HE HAS THE BALL!" Add in 2-3 sorcs in our guild and we can literally win the game 6-0 in 4-5mins. I just control mid, grab the ball, force speed over the toxic pool, pass to him in the pit or on the catwalks, he does his little flipping around, score.

So If im to understand this right, The set bonuses for WH are attached to the mods and not the gear sets? So basically, If we in fact install the WH stalker into an augmented orange piece of gear then we can still get the 2/4pc set bonus? Now are the set bonuses attached to the mod or the armoring attachments? BM gear is opposite. The gear sets are attached to the bonuses and not the mods/armoring.

Aye making us the second best ball carriers. As far as the spec he recommend, the cookie cutter PVP spec is a variation of 31/0/10. Wither > Death Field imo