BG/Pyro Hybrid?

[Podrik]

Been considering a hybrid BG/Pyro build for some more utility over a pure heal build for WZ Leveling.

 

Anyone tried it and have some pointers? My Merc is lvl 36 atm and I don't have the slightest how to put the points and where to start.

[Ciry]

My initial though is that a BG/Arsenal hybrid meshes better but if you try it I would defiantly like to know what you think about it.

[Podrik]

Yeah that's what I was told ingame too, but I don't like TM. Standing still to do damage isn't my thing.

 

The idea behind this is not to be a damage dealer and kill people, but to have more then one DoT to slap on while kiting/LoS healing people on your team.

 

Any damage you can do will help the team, and using Incendiary Missile when you don't need to heal can possibly make or break a tight fight, especially while defending something.

 

This is what I could come up with when playing around with the talent builder. Mind you that my merc is only lvl 36.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300bfR0RzZZfcbMz.1

 

Plan on using CSC, hence why I don't take any buffs to CGC. The 4% Alacrity won't help much but will be more helpful then buffing CGC when I won't use it.

 

Will need to try this out later tonight to see how it works. Can be a total disaster but one needs to try for oneself sometimes too

 

The build itself could possibly look something like this at lvl 50.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300bfRoRdfdkzZZfcbMz.1

 

Not sure if those are the correct choices, but I don't want to go any higher in Pyro tree.

 

 

I guess a BG/Arsenal hybrid build at 36 could look something like this:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300bfRoRzZrcoMM.1

 

Got some nice utility right there but that feels more in place for huttball action and no need to take TM either. Feckin' hell... This is harder then I thought...

Edited March 2, 2012 by Podrik

[saido]

Been thinking about this myself -- will follow this thread.

[Ciry]

Took a look at your possible 50 spec. Here's a suggestion.

 

Based on what you've said I assumed your primary desire from pyrotech was incendiary missle.

 

I for one don't find Degauss very useful for the 2 points it requires. I think they are better spent elsewhere.

 

I picked up Improved Vent Heat since Incendiary Missile is a major heat generator.

 

I dropped Heat Dampening since those abilities are any that you would be spamming.

 

I dropped Cure Mind and Protective Field to pick up more Warden. I guess whether or not to keep Proactive would depend if you want to do more healing all around or have more survivability for yourself.

 

I just don't know how much damage you'll really contribute by just throwing Incendiary Missles. Maybe if I load into a fail Huttball today I'll only Incendiary Missles and see how much damage goes out.

[Podrik]

That looks alot better.

 

Reason to get IM is not to get alot of damage done, it's more of a help to get people focused on something else then me.

 

I tried it a bit an hour ago and it's not that bad. Damage done is low, but I noticed that on lesser skilled players when they get dotted up they panic and run away until they realize that I'm not chasing them and by then I healed myself back up and my team and it's all good

 

A skilled played will just remove the dot or ignore it until I'm dead or I get assistance. I try to use it mostly on other healers. A dot they have to remove is a few moments when they won't heal and there I've seen alot of good.

 

I have doubts about this type of spec at 50 though. As a leveling build it seems to work fine however lvl 50 pvp against geared and skilled people is a complete different thing.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Podrik

[TempestasSilva]

I LOVE pyro for DPS and HATE Arsenal. However, the only way pyro is good is IMO is with Superheated Rail and Proto Particle Accelerator and you have neither. Plus Pyro really needs its cylinder and BG needs a different one. The Arsenal Cylinder is a bonus, not required. As much as I'd love for Pyro to work with BG, it just doesnt. If you want to drop a little BG for more DPS, Arsenal is really the only way to do it IMO.

[Podrik]

Well your statement is true however the goal isn't to do more damage overall, but to annoy the hell out of people and for those purposes BG/Pyro actually works quite nicely.

 

Atleast at lower levels like I said in my previous post. For level 50 PvP I doubt it will work the same.

 

I don't use railshot/unload/powershot unless I can finish someone off with it that is running away from the fight wich is rare since I focus mostly on healing.

 

Every player has his/her own style and for some reason this hybrid spec works for me. When I play full dps spec Pyro is my choice too, I really dislike arsenal even though it packs a punch and produces bigger numbers on screen.

 

At 50 I will go full healing, that has always been my plan but that won't stop me from trying out different things along the way

[Ciry]

I LOVE pyro for DPS and HATE Arsenal. However, the only way pyro is good is IMO is with Superheated Rail and Proto Particle Accelerator and you have neither. Plus Pyro really needs its cylinder and BG needs a different one. The Arsenal Cylinder is a bonus, not required. As much as I'd love for Pyro to work with BG, it just doesnt. If you want to drop a little BG for more DPS, Arsenal is really the only way to do it IMO.

 

I agree with what you've said but you need to realize what he's aiming for. His goal isn't to do large amounts of damage. His primary focus is healing while also being able to throw some damage out there for his team.

 

I can say that as a pyro who relies on opponents being dotted so I can Rail Shot, I wouldn't mind having someone else who can save me from having to throw out an IM.

 

I'm sure I'll load into at least one losing Huttball tonight and when I do I'll just use IM and basic shots. Maybe even turn off my cylinders. I'll let you know how it goes.

[bahdasz]

Not practical. If you spend enough points in the pyro tree to make it worth investing in at all you won't be able to aford anything in BG to make it worthwhile, and vice versa, that's pretty much just how it is. Either your healing is going to suck and your dps is going to suffer, or your dps is going to suck and your healing is going to suffer. I recommend picking a tree and going all the way and using the leftover points to pick the few things off the bottom row of the other two that will benefit the tree you chose (like Iron Sites, Integrated Systems, System Calibrations, Improved Vents and Hired Muscle depending on if you go pyro or BG). Depending on where you put the spare points in the first row you could even go for a few of the row two skills like Upgraded Arsenal or Gyroscopic Alignment Jets. But, I really don't think you're going to be happy with a straight up hybrid either way you do it.

[Podrik]

I disagree to a point. Yes my healing will suffer a little bit, but it's not a big deal at my current level.

 

I was full BG spec before trying this hybrid build and from what I've seen so far I loose about 50k healing overall in a "normal" game.

 

However there have been several 1 on 1 occasions where I have come out on top thanks to IM and an random Railshot whilst healing myself thanks to IM Dot wearing the dps down while I'm healing myself.

 

It's not the most effective spec and heat is an issue but it works for WZ leveling wich is what I'm after. I am fully aware that a 31/*/* spec will always be better for healing, but I still felt the need to try it out and see how it would work.

 

It will not work for everyone, some will drop the gloves and throw down hard on the spec but that is fine. I don't toss hate towards those that love Arsenal spec and the hybrid builds involving TM.

 

Not saying you are throwing hate around, you made some valid points in your post and I stand by my statement that I have high doubts it could work as good in level 50 PvP against geared players.

[Brad_Pitt]

Been considering a hybrid BG/Pyro build for some more utility over a pure heal build for WZ Leveling.

 

Anyone tried it and have some pointers? My Merc is lvl 36 atm and I don't have the slightest how to put the points and where to start.

 

I dont think you would want to do that.

 

Pyro's don't really have a spam ability, and if you go to the part of the healing tree where you will be able to actually survive against almost all classes, you need to have this build basically.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300rfMRR0cdzZZfGMbd.1

 

Which then turns your pyro build into crap, because of a few things.

 

 

 

It's basically useless to even shoot the incindeary missle, everything that I fight being full healer spec doesnt live longer than the 18 seconds your missle will take for its full effect to happen.

 

I always say pyro is a waste and needs beefed up a lot.

 

I can shoot explosive dart, fusion missle, railshot, unload, and powershot, all under 7 seconds(using the power surge or whatever makes you cast instantly, and my alacrity is almost 20%) and the target will be best case scenario around 40% hp left, then i stun, and use death from above and they are gone in around 10 seconds.

 

if you need a 18 second dot, your doing it wrong

[Podrik]

I understand what you are saying, but you got my post all wrong.

 

It's not ment to be spammable, or ment to be able to kill people 1 on 1 in seconds. It's a tool that makes people worry about something else then me. The damage is not massive but it helps, and it makes some people confused.

 

There are alot of really bad players in WZ when leveling purely via PvP and when I heal someone in one second just to slap on a dot on someone else that makes them really confused.

 

I did notice this morning that since I lack more healing power a good marauder/sentinel just obliterates me so I try to keep away from those

 

Nothing says I will keep this spec all the way to 50, being a pure healer is something completely different so I will probably respec in the mid 40's and get comfortable being a pure healer then.

[bahdasz]

I say, in stead of arguing with everyone that's telling you it won't work (which is what you're doing), you should go try it for yourself and see if you can prove us wrong (which you won't). Then you can come back next week and cry about how bad it sucked and then choose one or the other and move on. However, if you're insisting on an awesome build from someone so you don't have to figure it out for yourself, you may be waiting a while... because there isn't one.

 

What's the point of asking a question if you're going to refuse to accept the answer?

Edited March 3, 2012 by bahdasz

[bahdasz]

I dont think you would want to do that.

 

Pyro's don't really have a spam ability, and if you go to the part of the healing tree where you will be able to actually survive against almost all classes, you need to have this build basically.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300rfMRR0cdzZZfGMbd.1

 

Which then turns your pyro build into crap

 

Well, I'll agree that this build turns the pyro to crap, for sure, for more reasons stated. If you plan on running as a BG you're going to want to use combat support cylinder, if you're pyro you want the combustible gas cylinder. You can't use both at once.

 

The build linked above has several BG abilities that rely on/benefit from CSC. If you go to the pyro tree, Brad_Pitt is telling you that you to take skills that increase the damge or your CGC DOT and gives you 30% armor bypass on buring targets.... but you're going to have to work to set your target on fire, because without CGC they won't just spontaneously combust, and the 5 points you spend isn't worth it for some armor bypass on the occasional rail shot (especially when he says not to take Prototype Particle Accelerator). Meanwhile, he has you giving up Gyroscopic alignment jets, which is useful, but taking Sweltering Heat, which will do you no good.

 

If you DO decide against all common sense to go with your dream hybrid, do not use that build. And in case you're thinking "Oh, I'll just switch out cylinders," which would be a huge pain in the nuts, don't do it because every time you unequip your combat support cylinder it zeros out the charges; so when you would switch back to it...it's useless.

 

Good luck, lol

Edited March 3, 2012 by bahdasz

[Podrik]

I asked the question because I didn't know, after that I have been trying it out for myself wich I also say in other posts.

 

I'm not arguing. I'm simply saying that even though all posters points are valid, I'm not trying to find a dream build. I'm trying to find a leveling build that fits my playstyle wich focuses on healing with some splash damage around to help the team when I can with what I can other then healing.

 

IM in itself is actually quite nice even though the damage of it is low. Not sure on how many classes if any can remove the dot. I know for certain that a dps spec Sorc/Sage can't and with that until 1.2 hits it's a glorious ability to have in voidstar/civil war.

 

I appriciate the feedback but I'm still not trying to find a hybrid build that does little of everything. I don't spam IM and I don't use railshot/unload/powershot that often to make it worth while taking the talents I left out or use any other cylinder then CSC.

 

And I'm still using the build I came up with that is linked on the first page. It works for me but it doesn't shine wich I never thought it would. I was just bored doing the same stuff over and over and when leveling solely through pvp and queing solo as most know healers get no help or support from the rest.

 

This way I can handle myself to a point with an instant cast DoT and healing with smart use of LoS.

 

*Edit*

As a reference I am now level 40 and this is my current build:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300bfRoRzcZZfcbMz.1

Edited March 3, 2012 by Podrik

[Ciry]

I say, in stead of arguing with everyone that's telling you it won't work (which is what you're doing), you should go try it for yourself and see if you can prove us wrong (which you won't). Then you can come back next week and cry about how bad it sucked and then choose one or the other and move on. However, if you're insisting on an awesome build from someone so you don't have to figure it out for yourself, you may be waiting a while... because there isn't one.

 

What's the point of asking a question if you're going to refuse to accept the answer?

 

He's not arguing with anyone. He's asking a question and your being a bratasz. Did you even read what he's trying to do? Have you tried any of the specs suggested to him in this thread?

 

As I stated in the very first response, I think Arsenal and BG is a better mix than Pyro and BG, however, I have never tried and thus cannot say for certain that some mix of Pyro and BG would not work. In order to reject a hypothesis as invalid it must first be tested. If you have not tested it then don't knock the guy willing to try.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Ciry

[bahdasz]

I can read, and I understand how the three skillsets work, and I undestand why a hybrid won't be worth a crap. I have tried hybrid builds, not necessarily a healer/dps version, but I can tell you I haven't found any mixed builds that are as good as any one single build. And, I even gave valid reasons why a pyrotech/body guard build is full of fail. As I said, anyone can try it for themselves. I also believe I read at least three different people give other valid reasons why not to do it, and every time the OP chimed right in with "I disagree" or something similar, but I guess that's not arguing, whatever. If he disagrees, I again extend my invitation for him to try it and come back to the forum with his results after a week or so. Who knows? He may even find the new ultimate cookie cutter Mercenary template.

 

Anyway, again, good luck, lol.

[Brad_Pitt]

I can read, and I understand how the three skillsets work, and I undestand why a hybrid won't be worth a crap. I have tried hybrid builds, not necessarily a healer/dps version, but I can tell you I haven't found any mixed builds that are as good as any one single build. And, I even gave valid reasons why a pyrotech/body guard build is full of fail. As I said, anyone can try it for themselves. I also believe I read at least three different people give other valid reasons why not to do it, and every time the OP chimed right in with "I disagree" or something similar, but I guess that's not arguing, whatever. If he disagrees, I again extend my invitation for him to try it and come back to the forum with his results after a week or so. Who knows? He may even find the new ultimate cookie cutter Mercenary template.

 

Anyway, again, good luck, lol.

 

 

 

If you want to survive and still dish out massive amounts of damage, easily getting 300k+ dmg per round and still hitting good heals and surviving, you want this build

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300dfMRRzcbzZMIkbR0d.1

 

 

 

If you want to deal around 250k+ dmg and 300k+ healing use this build

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300dfRRRdfdkoZMIk.1

 

 

This is basically the best class in my opinion, you don't have to heal anyone if you don't want to, but you can fully heal yourself out of bad situations and you can still get up to 350k+ dmg per wz and around 150k avg heal on yourself.

 

You can have 10seconds of free powershots, and it only takes about 10-15 seconds to build it back up to get more free powershots, and if you do it right, like I do

 

powershot= 1800-2200, cast time 1.25s cast time(pve armor gies a 15% crit chance bonus, its worth wearing 2 pieces of pve armor just for this even in a warzone)

8 powershots in a row, pop super charged gas, 10s of free powershots(8 free powershots), then your heat is back to 0, 8 more powershots in a row, then use vent heat, then if ur target still isnt dead or ur fighting multiple people, u can still cast another 8 powershots.

 

You don't know what your talking about and you lack skill, don't bag on other people for asking about a build, this is the best build hands down.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300dfRRRdfdkoZMIk.1

 

You will almost never die, because you get up to 80% dmg reduction popping shields/adrenal/stim/relic/healing buffs/combat cylinder 4% dmg reduction/kolto missle while super charged gas is on for 10% dmg reduction.

 

Get off the forums, you're a BAD....

[Podrik]

I can read, and I understand how the three skillsets work, and I undestand why a hybrid won't be worth a crap. I have tried hybrid builds, not necessarily a healer/dps version, but I can tell you I haven't found any mixed builds that are as good as any one single build. And, I even gave valid reasons why a pyrotech/body guard build is full of fail. As I said, anyone can try it for themselves. I also believe I read at least three different people give other valid reasons why not to do it, and every time the OP chimed right in with "I disagree" or something similar, but I guess that's not arguing, whatever. If he disagrees, I again extend my invitation for him to try it and come back to the forum with his results after a week or so. Who knows? He may even find the new ultimate cookie cutter Mercenary template.

 

Anyway, again, good luck, lol.

 

You are still missing the point..

 

I am not trying to find an awesome cookie cutter build. I'm trying to find something that works for my playstyle that doesn't involve Arsenal tree and Tracer Missile. I already stated in previous posts that the build I AM playing right now isn't superpewnageofawesomeness but it works for ME and my playstyle.

 

I enjoy having degauss as a healer, I can't say how many times popping my shield during a knockback root has saved my or my teams life. Learning how to manage the heat in this spec and using the skills I have to my advantage is a challenge, but who wants to play an easymode game?

 

You are totally set to bash any attempt at this build without even thinking for a second what I want with it.

 

Now I'm arguing because now you are just trolling. Atleast the others gave valuable feedback and input wich I thank them for. It just made me more determined to try this for myself to find out first hand what happens and how to counter it.

 

I'll say for the last time. The build I posted that I myself came up with works for me. It doesn't shine and I don't top the charts but I get my job done, I keep my team alive and I prevent the enemy from capping turrents in Civil War and planting/disarming bombs in Voidstar.

 

For me that is mission accomplished. And no I will not use this spec at 50. It simply won't work against geared people and especially not after 1.2 patch hits when DoT's no longer will interrupt capping.

[germil]

I haven't tried it but there is this build.

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300rfMkozMZMczZbIrbzh.1

 

But the problem with pyro/bg hybrid is that I find you need ( in any build actually) Muzzle fluting talent... Because pyro without the PowerShot/Fullauto which proc free rail shot to loose heat is useless (Incendiary missile on its own has a very low damage/heat, use it only to put the target on fire to gain procs/buff).

 

The need to go a little in arsenal makes arsenal/bg hybrids (see brad_pitt post) ) much more valuables.

[Jinnz]

Why all the discussion, its not rocket science. He wants to play his way while being a hybrid. BH is the worst oput of the 3 healer classes for a hybrid playstyle, but this build will be more than effective.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300bfRkRzcZZfcbMdG0M.1

 

You need CSC because your a healer.... but you get the core dps talents from pyro. This way, not only can you harass somone with rapid shots/dot (which isn't very efficient) but you have some nice dps burst potential to 'help finish' a fight for your teammate, and you have the core of the very basic healing a BH needs.

 

Have fun.

[Podrik]

Thank you Jinnz. Playing MMO's is all about personal fun and when I decided to level my merc only via PvP I need to have fun doing it.

 

PvP leveling is really slow compared to questing/space missions but I learn alot wich will help me at 50 later on.

 

If this requires trying different builds along the way, even some that may or may not work that is my choice.

 

Will look into your suggestion, not all that different from what I roll with now.

[Sookster]

As much as I dislike looking at merc hybrids, I cringe at the though of having to go deep enough into arsenal to get the 100% knockback on rocket punch, very handy if you're a bodyguard merc, I'd take it in a heartbeat if it was in the 10 point range. emergancy scan is too good to leave out just to get KB on RP.

 

With some tinkering, I haven't found a decent hybrid for my merc, probably will never bother with one, merc is one of those classes you're better off going full 31 points into. My powertech benefits a bit better as a hybrid than most other classes (bar sage/sorc).

[Sookster]

PvP leveling is really slow compared to questing/space missions but I learn alot wich will help me at 50 later on.

 

If you lose lots of matches, yeah it can get slow. I have 2 toons I only pvp to level with, haven't done any quests and they're in the high 30's-low 40's now. Only drawback is way less credit earned and almost no rewarded gear, on the rest of my toons I pvp'd maybe 60% of the time, quested (only class & planet story quests) and FP'd the rest, I'm still more of a pvper than a pver.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Sookster