No more color restrictions on crystals ?! Really ?

[Altyrell]

Cancriz, CURRENTLY Light Sith cannot use Red Lightsabers. This change will ALLOW them to be able to if they so choose to

 

JUST as it will allow Dark Aligned Jedi to use Blue or Green if they so choose to, as currently they are NOT able to.

 

Lets not forget the countless Non-Force Using Players who are ALSO affected by the Restrictions that will soon be lifted.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[Cancrizans]

I take it you've never seen Episode III? The moment Anakin lops off Windu's arm, he has fallen to the darkside. Thirty seconds later, he takes a knee and pledges himself to Sidious, becomes a Sith, and acquires the a lord title.

 

Even if Anakin wasn't truly darksided by the time he stalked into the Jedi Temple to slaughter his former fellow Jedi and murder a dozen or so children (and I'd argue he was firmly darkside before even doing that -- you can't kill an entire town's worth of sand people in vengeance, have a secret wife, lop off the head of a beaten opponent in even more vengeance, and then kill a Jedi Master and not be at least DS I. I mean, Jesus, I'd argue Anakin was already DS I at the start of Ep. II! He was never a 'good' Jedi as we saw in the films), he was certainly a full-fledged darksider by the time he arrived on Mustafar.

 

Anakin was a darkside character, fighting with the Sith, as a Sith, who used a blue saber. And it didn't blow up in his hand, or fail to turn on when he pressed the button, or anything else that an unequippable item might do.

 

If you'd bothered to actually read my posts, I never said any color would be UNEQUIPPABLE. My argument is that in the Star Wars universe, one would NEVER see the amount of cross alignment/faction color swapping that we are bound to see if Bioware makes this change.

 

They are currently and should be unequippable in SWTOR because it is a game and we need certain barriers in place to prevent things from getting completely out of control clown school style.

[Cancrizans]

How exactly did this stop Grivous from using blue and green lightsabers?

 

I'm pretty sure there are dozens of other examples in SW Lore but cba looking.

 

Hey one word: ROBOT. Teh robots don't care about teh colors!

[Altyrell]

Hey one word: ROBOT. Teh robots don't care about teh colors!

 

Gen Grevious was a CYBORG not a Droid/Robot.

[Lord_Scythe]

OK let me spell this out differently...forget the time issue, he simply HAD NOT CRAFTED HIS RED SABER YET.

 

Which he ends up with and uses until he eventually dies. Did he do that just for fun? It seems obvious that he uses the blue one because he had not yet had the opportunity, or had not CHOSEN yet to make a red saber.

 

I see this case as more evidence that a Sith WILL choose to use a red saber as a natural preference, trying to interpret these scenes as evidence that Sith use blue sabers is really, really silly.

 

You just shot your whole argument in the foot!

 

He chose not to make it a red saber yet.

 

Meaning that every PC Sith or Jedi should have the Choice of what color they should make!

[AJediKnight]

If you'd bothered to actually read my posts, I never said any color would be UNEQUIPPABLE. My argument is that in the Star Wars universe, one would NEVER see the amount of cross alignment/faction color swapping that we are bound to see if Bioware makes this change.

 

They are currently and should be unequippable in SWTOR because it is a game and we need certain barriers in place to prevent things from getting completely out of control clown school style.

 

It's already completely out of control. I see more Sith wielding green and blue than I do red. Part of this is most certainly due to 'special flower' syndrome, but another large portion can likely be attributed to the fact that the current system forces a lot of Sith to abandon traditional red almost immediately upon hitting 10. Same thing for Jedi with green/blue.

 

Since I am not in favor of additional restrictions (nor would the playerbase support it -- rest assured that you and your vocal minority [the "choice thieves"] are a very, very small group of woodland bandits, living beyond the bounds of normal society), then the only solution to the current problem is to remove all restrictions. This is an MMO -- freedom of choice and the freedom to RP the character you want should be paramount over the hand-wringing of a miniscule collection of purists (who cannot, for the matter, even agree on what constitutes "pure").

 

You guys lost. The change train is coming. Get on or get gone.

Edited March 3, 2012 by AJediKnight

[Altyrell]

You just shot your whole argument in the foot!

 

He chose not to make it a red saber yet.

 

Meaning that every PC Sith or Jedi should have the Choice of what color they should make!

 

What's funny is that he goes on to say that Sith choose Red as a natural preference. Well, THIS Sith natural preference would be to use Blue because it represents his Cold Hearted Nature, or naturally prefers Green to indicate that he is Greedy. THIS Jedi natural preference would be to use Red to show he has Courage, Leadership, and that he is Passionate about making sure the Republic stays standing.

 

 

Oh by the way, Cancriz, Dark Aligned Jedi in THIS Game are about making sure the Republic stays standing no matter the cost.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[ScarletBlaze]

Cancrizans;3231559]IDK wth Leland Chee is and I don't care. I care about the spirit of the movies, especially the original films, and all I see now is a bunch of people interested in profiting from those movies who have repeatedly sacrificed their integrity solely for reasons of profit. So frankly they can designate whatever they want as canon, I give such designations as much respect as any decisions made for profit...which is basically zero.

 

 

Information on Canon and who Leland Chee is and how canon is established

 

By 1996, Licensing was keeping an in-house bible of reference materials as the volume of publications, facts, and figures grew to such unwieldy proportions that it became difficult to know everything relevant to a particular project. They finally decided something had to be done to organize the increasingly large collection of media which chronicled the Star Wars universe. A system of canon was developed that organized the materials into what was and wasn't fit for the Star Wars story.

 

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.

 

The Holocron is divided into 5 levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

 

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

 

T-canon[2] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.[3] C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

 

S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

 

N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

 

Leland Chee continues to answer questions about the Holocron in the Holocron continuity database questions thread at the starwars.com forums.

 

On August 4, 2004, when asked if the G and C-levels formed separate and independent canon, Chee responded by stating that both were part of a single canon: "There is one overall continuity."

 

In a December 7, 2005 post, Chee commented on how the Holocron is applied to licensees:

"The Holocron comes into play for anything official being developed for books, games, websites, and merchandise. For anything beyond that, it is simply a reference tool."

 

In a December 6, 2006 post, Chee suggests the existence of a second continuity composed only of the films:

"The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving."

 

On a post made on the same day, Chee stated that:

"Anything not in the current version of the films is irrelevant to Film only continuity."

This statement confirms the existence of two separate continuities, the "film only" continuity maintained and followed by George Lucas himself, and the "films + EU" continuity that is used for licensed products; G-Canon, and Star Wars Canon.

[AJediKnight]

What's funny is that he goes on to say that Sith choose Red as a natural preference. Well, THIS Sith natural preference would be to use Blue because it represents his Cold Hearted Nature, or naturally prefers Green to indicate that he is Greedy. THIS Jedi natural preference would be to use Red to show he has Courage and Leadership.

 

Green can also symbolize disease, rot, plague, and a myriad of other bad things. It's not all leaves and grass and sunshine.

[Altyrell]

Green can also symbolize disease, rot, plague, and a myriad of other bad things. It's not all leaves and grass and sunshine.

 

Exactly, there are countless Role Playing and what not Reasons as to why a Jedi would use Red just as there are as to why a Sith would wield Blue or Green.

[AJediKnight]

Exactly, there are countless Role Playing and what not Reasons as to why a Jedi would use Red just as there are as to why a Sith would wield Blue or Green.

 

Absolutely. Red has always been the traditional color of life itself. Red dragons; red armbands, etc -- all associated with the blood that we closely link to living things. Red is strong and powerful, but it can also bestow guardianship and protection. It is a ward against death itself, whose color is black. Black is difficult to assign noble attributes to, but red is hardly some festering malignancy of a color. In fact, I think red is just as 'good' (or bad) as green and blue. It really depends on how you see the world.

[Lord_Scythe]

Information on Canon and who Leland Chee is and how canon is established

 

By 1996, Licensing was keeping an in-house bible of reference materials as the volume of publications, facts, and figures grew to such unwieldy proportions that it became difficult to know everything relevant to a particular project. They finally decided something had to be done to organize the increasingly large collection of media which chronicled the Star Wars universe. A system of canon was developed that organized the materials into what was and wasn't fit for the Star Wars story.

 

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity tracking database referred to as the "Holocron". As with every other aspect having to do with the overall story of Star Wars, the Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years.

 

The Holocron is divided into 5 levels (in order of precedence): G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, and N-canon.

 

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

 

T-canon[2] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.[3] C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.

 

S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.

 

N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

 

Leland Chee continues to answer questions about the Holocron in the Holocron continuity database questions thread at the starwars.com forums.

 

On August 4, 2004, when asked if the G and C-levels formed separate and independent canon, Chee responded by stating that both were part of a single canon: "There is one overall continuity."

 

In a December 7, 2005 post, Chee commented on how the Holocron is applied to licensees:

"The Holocron comes into play for anything official being developed for books, games, websites, and merchandise. For anything beyond that, it is simply a reference tool."

 

In a December 6, 2006 post, Chee suggests the existence of a second continuity composed only of the films:

"The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving."

 

On a post made on the same day, Chee stated that:

"Anything not in the current version of the films is irrelevant to Film only continuity."

This statement confirms the existence of two separate continuities, the "film only" continuity maintained and followed by George Lucas himself, and the "films + EU" continuity that is used for licensed products; G-Canon, and Star Wars Canon.

 

No point in using logic with him. He goes by what he believes is Canon. If you read his posts he shoots himself in the foot more than once.

 

In the end he lost the restrictions are going and we can get on with choosing our own colors as it should have been from launch!

 

EDIT:

 

IMO He is arguing just to argue.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Lord_Scythe

[NasherUK]

The colour restrictions should be a client-side option, just like hide helmet. While switched on it should show republic using red as using blue or green and all sith using blue/green as using red.

 

Also there should be an option to replace the UGLY black core sabers with white ones :/

Edited March 3, 2012 by NasherUK

[Altyrell]

Absolutely. Red has always been the traditional color of life itself. Red dragons; red armbands, etc -- all associated with the blood that we closely link to living things. Red is strong and powerful, but it can also bestow guardianship and protection. It is a ward against death itself, whose color is black. Black is difficult to assign noble attributes to, but red is hardly some festering malignancy of a color. In fact, I think red is just as 'good' (or bad) as green and blue. It really depends on how you see the world.

 

Aye

 

No point in using logic with him. He goes by what he believes in Canon. If you read his posts he shoots himself in the foot more than once.

 

In the end he lost the restrictions are going and we can get on with choosing our own colors as it should have been from launch!

 

Pretty much, and plus, now Light Aligned Sith can use Red and Dark Aligned Jedi can use Blue/Green, same for the Non-Force Users.

[Altyrell]

The colour restrictions should be a client-side option, just like hide helmet. While switched on it should show republic using red as using blue/green and all sith using blue/green as using red.

 

Also there should be an option to replace the UGLY black core sabers with white ones :/

 

Big problem with that kind of Toggle, is what about the other Colors, cause I doubt that they would be able to do that JUST for those Colors

[ElitehunterDS]

How exactly did this stop Grivous from using blue and green lightsabers?

 

I'm pretty sure there are dozens of other examples in SW Lore but cba looking.

Stolen lightsaber from the corpse of jedi, he also is not force sensitive, just a very very good battlemaster.

[NasherUK]

Big problem with that kind of Toggle, is what about the other Colors, cause I doubt that they would be able to do that JUST for those Colors

 

Why not? Each colour is just a number in a database, all the toggle has to do is look at the faction flag and if they are using X colour the client converts it to another. E.g. so if republic player is using red the client changes it to blue.

Edited March 3, 2012 by NasherUK

[Derfmiolleh]

Red represents the the Sith thinking in absolutes and the colors represent the Republics diversity. I don't care what anyone says, even Lucas. It's going to be sad watching what we all know is settled law being thrown out the window. I mean really, Sith with blue light sabres because its "cold" or green because its "sickness"?......This is the first block of the game coming loose and unfortunately gives an idea as to where we are going. Whatever, who cares.

[Altyrell]

Red represents the the Sith thinking in absolutes and the colors represent the Republics diversity. I don't care what anyone says, even Lucas. It's going to be sad watching what we all know is settled law being thrown out the window. I mean really, Sith with blue light sabres because its "cold" or green because its "sickness"?......This is the first block of the game coming loose and unfortunately gives an idea as to where we are going. Whatever, who cares.

 

Except, it isn't law that Jedi cannot use Red or that Sith cannot use Blue or Green. Oh, and even with the Restrictions, Jedi and Sith can already DO that.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Altyrell

[KittyPrawn]

I don't care what anyone says, even Lucas.

 

I don't even...

[terminova]

Well, it is possible that a person could go Light as an Imperial because they have come to some realization and want to bring change from within...in which case I very much doubt they would be parading around with a blue or green lightsaber that yells "hay gusy I'm gonna be an individual and buck the trend" in this RIGID MILITARISTIC SOCIETY(per Biowares desciption). I see no other real reason someone would follow a Light Side path yet remain in service to the Empire.

 

Because they pay them. Because disloyalty means getting killed. Because desertion means death/jail. Because not everything is as cut-and-dried as you think it is. Both sides have some really corrupt people and both sides have people who want to make a difference.

 

In the case of a "Jedi" making Dark Side choices...there is a serious difference between being a bit of a rebel and truly following the Dark Side. If you follow the Dark Side you are no longer a Jedi in spirit. Unless, again, you wanted to act as an instrument of change to corrupt the Jedi Order(in which case you would not be calling attention to yourself by sporting a red saber) there is no reason for you to remain a Jedi...you would simply defect to the Empire.

 

Let's take the case of Nomen Karr, a totally LS Jedi on the surface. Wants to protect his padawan, wants to drive the Empire out, wants to fight the good fight and destroy the Sith. As a Sith Marauder, you break him totally and completely bringing out his want for revenge against Darth Baras, but he still wants to protect his Padawan from you, still wants to fight the good fight, still be a Jedi. At no point did he ever consider joining the Empire, yet he's obviously fallen to the Darkside.

 

And you don't have to be totally evil. The crystal colors are also a matter of tradition, one that is tightly connected to the NORM of Dark Side connected with Empire and Light with Republic. That tradition will be dismembered if Bioware makes this change.

 

Crystal colors are only a matter of tradition, not one of alignment.

[ssotw]

Red represents the the Sith thinking in absolutes and the colors represent the Republics diversity. I don't care what anyone says, even Lucas. It's going to be sad watching what we all know is settled law being thrown out the window. I mean really, Sith with blue light sabres because its "cold" or green because its "sickness"?......This is the first block of the game coming loose and unfortunately gives an idea as to where we are going. Whatever, who cares.

 

Crystals first appeared in the Star Wars galaxy simply as an embedded decoration on the lightsaber hilt in the A New Hope novelization.[9] Aside from this single instance, there are no crystals mentioned in the original trilogy or its novelizations.[9][10][11]

 

Most crystals with special properties were from various video game and role playing game sources. Since these special powers were often a function of game play, and not of the storyline, it is questionable if these powers are truly canon. However, since there are several examples of crystals with special powers in actual storylines (e.g. Lambent, Kaiburr, etc.), it is generally accepted that other crystals had special powers as well.

 

For millennia, the Jedi Order lit lightsabers in every color and hue imaginable. However, following the Battle of Ruusan, the hues of most available crystals had been limited to either blue or green

 

from here

[Derfmiolleh]

Remember one of the trailers for this game when all the Sith and all the jedi ran into each other? Remember all those RED light sabres extending out at the same time and the feeling it gave? I remember every other example as I reflect back and red is Sith Empire. This image dies with this game. Edited March 3, 2012 by Derfmiolleh

[Vecke]

My argument is that in the Star Wars universe, one would NEVER see the amount of cross alignment/faction color swapping that we are bound to see if Bioware makes this change..

 

That's the argument I don't understand. This change will help your position, not hurt it.

 

Right now, I see Jedi with red lightsabers constantly. Why? Because they can't equip a blue saber. A Jedi physically cannot equip a blue lightsaber with this restriction. And I see Sith with blue sabers because they physically cannot equip a red saber. Again, many Sith in this game cannot physically equip a red lightsaber.

 

The current mechanic works against what you want to see in the game.

 

This change will fix it so Sith can equip a red saber. Removing that restriction allows you to see more Jedi with blue/green sabers and more Sith with red sabers.

 

This helps the very point you're making here. I don't understand why you're fighting against that.

 

I'm all for giving LS/DS more meaning, but if the current implementation makes no sense from a gameplay, canon, or film tone perspective, I'm happy to see it go. Implement a LS/DS mechanic that makes sense. Having one that doesn't work - that also has a negative impact on non-force users - just because it needs something is a bad idea.

[Mechavomit]

I am playing a Star Wars game and one thing that was iconic to the franchise is definitely the color of crystals tied to the alignment of its user.

So you're ok with a bunch of Sith running around with BLUE sabers like some Jedi wannabe's?

 

I am more than happy that the restriction is going away. Lightsabers are supposed to be color-coded by faction, it was always like this. Sith have red sabers, Jedi have blue/green. Sure, there are exeptions, but those are EXEPTIONS.