Tuscad Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sorry, I didn't see where George Lucas says hello in that fail link. As your comprehension of my point failed, I will restate it: I'd very much like to see evidence that GEORGE LUCAS says it doesn't matter. so yeah, fail link is fail. Does the fact that when Anakin becomes Darth Vader and still used his blue lightsaber in episode 3 instead of being forced to drop it and pick up a red one count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sorry, I didn't see where George Lucas says hello in that fail link. As your comprehension of my point failed, I will restate it: I'd very much like to see evidence that GEORGE LUCAS says it doesn't matter. so yeah, fail link is fail. Yup, That's why you colorized and underlined the part about how it doesn't matter, and not the part about George Lucas saying it doesn't matter. Sounds like it's writers failure to present the proper information. That being said, my link still shows that it doesn't matter, because its not BW "breaking the restriction," because everything BW does is EXPANDED UNIVERSE, and therefor play by those rules. Otherwise, the ONLY crystals in the game would be red, blue, and green, unless you're secretly Samuel L. Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The consequences for the choices you make should be in-game story alterations... not some flimsy color restrictions that, again, are nowhere supported by the lore. Clearly, the weight of public opinion was on the side of ending this stupidity. Good guys won. Keep snarling about it. Once the restrictions are gone, they're never coming back. You mean the weight of a minority opinion. And please...gloating is such an ugly affectation. I've already pointed out where it's supported by lore, but you don't want to consider the Films lore, so I guess I can't win there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Why do people complain when we are given MORE OPTIONS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koalachan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You mean the weight of a minority opinion. And please...gloating is such an ugly affectation. I've already pointed out where it's supported by lore, but you don't want to consider the Films lore, so I guess I can't win there I will never consider Episode 1 as Lore. And you didn't point out where it says in the movies its lore. Hell, up until GL redid the movies, Luke's lightsaber was white. Some of the old books even make reference to it. AND in the behind the scenes, when Sammy L. asked for a different color lightsaber, GL says "As a rule of thumb, bad guys have red, good guys have blue or green, but I'll see what I can do." He didn't say it was absolute, he said it was a rule of thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJediKnight Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) You mean the weight of a minority opinion. Polls throughout the late beta actually supported restriction removal. Clearly, if Bioware thought those in favor of a restriction removal represented a dramatic minority, they wouldn't have gone out of the way to cater to us. The onus is on you to prove we're a minority because, frankly, I see this change as supporting the desires of a vast, vast, vast majority. And please...gloating is such an ugly affectation. But it's so much fun. I believe I will continue to do so. *Dances.* I've already pointed out where it's supported by lore, but you don't want to consider the Films lore, so I guess I can't win there The films are the core canon, but never state (or even so much as hint) that colors are restricted to sides, or are tied to a certain moral standing. In fact, when Vader doesn't immediately swap out the crystal in his lightsaber to a red one in Ep. III, and proceeds to slaughter younglings while using blue (which is darker than anything anyone has ever done in TOR), that's all the FILM EVIDENCE I need to support my case. In fact, the weight of evidence regarding the creation of the films hints strongly that Lucas doesn't give a damn about color. The only reason Luke's saber was green was because blue clashed with the sky in Tunisia. The only reason Samuel L's saber was purple was because he asked it to be. Clearly, if Lucas was all bent out of shape about colors meaning something, he wouldn't just idly introduce new ones for rather minor real-life reasons. Colors merely represent a personal choice. That's how it is to the characters in Star Wars; that's how it will now be in TOR. Edited March 2, 2012 by AJediKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Does the fact that when Anakin becomes Darth Vader and still used his blue lightsaber in episode 3 instead of being forced to drop it and pick up a red one count? And yet he eventually does get a red saber...hmmm...perhaps because for his vile nature, the red saber was more attuned to him?? And where would he get a red saber at the spur of the moment anyway, lol. It's not a freaking light switch, lol. And the use of Dooku's saber in Ep III was a fantastic use of symbolism and foreshadow...the conflicting nature of good and evil within Anakin. Anakin certainly didn't need both of them to behead Dooku. But the storytelling effect was to hint at the gradual move to the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deags Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You mean the weight of a minority opinion. And please...gloating is such an ugly affectation. I've already pointed out where it's supported by lore, but you don't want to consider the Films lore, so I guess I can't win there Where in the films does it say they have to use those colours?, could easily be personal choice, the point being that no where does it say a sith must use a certain colour and a jedi must use a certain colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astridd Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Blue lightsaber killed younglings at the onset of Order 66. Whats important is the person behind it, not the color. As we already have red / green nametag above our head, faction restriction isn't needed either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yup, That's why you colorized and underlined the part about how it doesn't matter, and not the part about George Lucas saying it doesn't matter. Sounds like it's writers failure to present the proper information. That being said, my link still shows that it doesn't matter, because its not BW "breaking the restriction," because everything BW does is EXPANDED UNIVERSE, and therefor play by those rules. Otherwise, the ONLY crystals in the game would be red, blue, and green, unless you're secretly Samuel L. Jackson. lol...I quoted someone who used color coded text. I'm sorry that was over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 And yet he eventually does get a red saber...hmmm...perhaps because for his vile nature, the red saber was more attuned to him?? And where would he get a red saber at the spur of the moment anyway, lol. It's not a freaking light switch, lol. And the use of Dooku's saber in Ep III was a fantastic use of symbolism and foreshadow...the conflicting nature of good and evil within Anakin. Anakin certainly didn't need both of them to behead Dooku. But the storytelling effect was to hint at the gradual move to the Dark Side. The color is personal choice not anything else. The color in this game too should be personal choice and if you as a dark side character want to limit yourself to red, so be it. But don't limit other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) And where would he get a red saber at the spur of the moment anyway, lol. Darth Sidious who had a spare hidden in the statue in his senate office. Edit: I believe the statue held 3. One of them was on Sidious when Mace and the other Jedi walked in to arrest him of course. Edited March 2, 2012 by Tuscad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I will never consider Episode 1 as Lore. And you didn't point out where it says in the movies its lore. Hell, up until GL redid the movies, Luke's lightsaber was white. Some of the old books even make reference to it. AND in the behind the scenes, when Sammy L. asked for a different color lightsaber, GL says "As a rule of thumb, bad guys have red, good guys have blue or green, but I'll see what I can do." He didn't say it was absolute, he said it was a rule of thumb. Looky there, thanks for proving my point. Yes, Jackson had to receive special dispensation BECAUSE it was so extra-ordinary. Something few of you see to grasp. The fact that it was exceptional in the prequels, made Jackson's character unique and bad-assed; that it's so ridiculously common in SWTOR, makes it pedestrian and lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJediKnight Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Darth Sidious who had a spare hidden in the statue in his senate office. Edit: I believe the statue held 3. One of them was on Sidious when Mace and the other Jedi walked in to arrest him of course. I mean, Jesus, where was that scene where Anakin marched up to the Jedi Temple, pulled out his saber, clicked the button and... it failed to ignite? [COMM] Master, I have run into some issues. *The clones snicker.* [COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame? [COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on. *More clone laughter.* [COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal. *Anakin leaves in a huff.* Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK! Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith. Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore. Edited March 2, 2012 by AJediKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I mean, Jesus, where was that scene where Anakin marched up to the Jedi Temple, pulled out his saber, clicked the button and... it failed to ignite? [COMM] Master, I have run into some issues. *The clones snicker.* [COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame? [COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on. *More clone laughter.* [COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal. Clone trooper: Hehe... stupid sith. Clone trooper #2: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore. Lol, I admit that would have made Episode 3 even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Does the fact that when Anakin becomes Darth Vader and still used his blue lightsaber in episode 3 instead of being forced to drop it and pick up a red one count? Yeah he's one of Five Dark Lords of the Sith that weilded non-red blades for a period. Exar Kun (Blue) was one, so was Darth Traya (Violet 3 at once!), Darth Cadeus (Green), and Freddon Nadd (Bronze). Thing is, though, Lucas has signed off on so much as being canon in the SW Universe it's easy to be confused on a lot of things. So much has been pulled and altered that it's entirely possible for half of us to view things one way or the other. Even with the subsequent re-releases of the films things we accepted as fact have changed within the SW Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Polls throughout the late beta actually supported restriction removal. Clearly, if Bioware thought those in favor of a restriction removal represented a dramatic minority, they wouldn't have gone out of the way to cater to us. The onus is on you to prove we're a minority because, frankly, I see this change as supporting the desires of a vast, vast, vast majority. Yeah...i'm sure those player created polls were statistically accurate The films are the core canon, but never state (or even so much as hint) that colors are restricted to sides, or are tied to a certain moral standing. In fact, when Vader doesn't immediately swap out the crystal in his lightsaber to a red one in Ep. III, and proceeds to slaughter younglings while using blue (which is darker than anything anyone has ever done in TOR), that's all the FILM EVIDENCE I need to support my case. In fact, the weight of evidence regarding the creation of the films hints strongly that Lucas doesn't give a damn about color. The only reason Luke's saber was green was because blue clashed with the sky in Tunisia. The only reason Samuel L's saber was purple was because he asked it to be. Clearly, if Lucas was all bent out of shape about colors meaning something, he wouldn't just idly introduce new ones for rather minor real-life reasons. Colors merely represent a personal choice. That's how it is to the characters in Star Wars; that's how it will now be in TOR. I've already explained the reason behind this above. But let me sum up...Vader eventually takes a red lightsaber. Of course in this GAME, you can't hardcode a gradual slide to the darkside. For all we know, Anakin might have been just on the edge of Dark I in game terms, lol. After his encounter with Obi Wan, he slips over that game boundary and can no longer wield blue. Also, as far as George goes, see your friend's comment above. I think he pretty much ended that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I've already explained the reason behind this above. But let me sum up...Vader eventually takes a red lightsaber. Meaning by choice, he wasn't forced to drop it and change. For all we know he would have continued using the Blue one had Obi-Wan not picked it up and walked off with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deags Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Yeah...i'm sure those player created polls were statistically accurate I've already explained the reason behind this above. But let me sum up...Vader eventually takes a red lightsaber. Of course in this GAME, you can't hardcode a gradual slide to the darkside. For all we know, Anakin might have been just on the edge of Dark I in game terms, lol. After his encounter with Obi Wan, he slips over that game boundary and can no longer wield blue. Also, as far as George goes, see your friend's comment above. I think he pretty much ended that discussion. lol dark I, man he killed younglings while sporting the blue saber, i think he was plenty dark during that event... Edited March 2, 2012 by deags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Where in the films does it say they have to use those colours?, could easily be personal choice, the point being that no where does it say a sith must use a certain colour and a jedi must use a certain colour. Where does it say? How about in Attack of the Clones where the entire Jedi army is wielding Green or Blue sabers? If it were personal choice, or common, you'd think some of them would have had red, dontcha think? But no. The visual statement, as Films are meant to be, is far more powerful than an expositional statement. I mean, how many of us cringed at the exposition regarding midicalorians?? No. The visual cues are ALL I need to interpret the intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) lol dark I, man he killed younglings while sporting the blue saber, i think he was plenty dark during that event... And killing a ton of Jedi didn't push him into Dark 1? Also of the 8 we know of the majority of his kills were suprise kills, LOL! Edited March 2, 2012 by Tuscad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Meaning by choice, he wasn't forced to drop it and change. For all we know he would have continued using the Blue one had Obi-Wan not picked it up and walked off with it. He took a new name and a new light saber. It makes sense he pretty much gave up on being Anakin ever again. He was Vader and Vader used red. It was a choice he made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deags Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 And killing a ton of Jedi didn't push him into Dark 1? LOL! no when willing to make the choice to kill kids he was clearly already very much into the darkside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Where does it say? How about in Attack of the Clones where the entire Jedi army is wielding Green or Blue sabers? If it were personal choice, or common, you'd think some of them would have had red, dontcha think? But no. The visual statement, as Films are meant to be, is far more powerful than an expositional statement. I mean, how many of us cringed at the exposition regarding midicalorians?? No. The visual cues are ALL I need to interpret the intent. Or they could all be using blue and green out of respect for their masters or for conformity or even availability of color crystals. etc etc Edited March 2, 2012 by gryhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerion Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Blue lightsaber killed younglings at the onset of Order 66. Whats important is the person behind it, not the color. As we already have red / green nametag above our head, faction restriction isn't needed either. People...it's not a freaking switch. Of course he was still using that saber, until he had time to craft one of his own which...wait for it, turns out to be RED, lol. It isn't a personal choice, and the MOUNTAINS of evidence are against each and everyone of you, no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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