iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) miss the point much? There are ways to build story and discovery in to the RPG element that makes it grow and progress... not the total disconnect there is now. End game has absolutely nothing to do with the story element for any individual character. Think about that. That was BW's claim to fame for this MMO. And yet... end game? Um... yeah... i never once thought my individual story arc would be infinite. that you did isn't BWs fault. 90% of the things I did while leveling didn't have anything to do with my individual story either... Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) I'm not bashing on anyone but since i haven't played WoW yet could you be more specific please? What are these extreme differences that made you post in such a callous manner. Clearing MC and BWL in 1 night were common: Maybe one you had both on farm....no way in hell that was happening early on. MC wasn't even getting cleared for over a year by the vast majority. BWL was really hard when it was new. The OP has never set foot in BWL I bet. No hard content in Wrath/Cata: Wrath and Cata had some of the most difficult content ever in the game. Noobs got their 1st set of epics and pretended they were done. This game isn't easier than WoW: There is really nothing I need to say here other than this is completely false. Not even comparable. Even saying it is ridiculous. I could go on and on, but to even compare this game's endgame to WoW's it just hilarious in general. The entire post is uninformed to the point where I have to wonder if he's just trolling. WoW's end game has always been deep and challenging if you wanted to clear everything. Here people can clear everything in 1 night without even knowing the fights. Edited March 2, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Just keep in mind that you will reach the end of that as well. The bad thing about MMOs is it takes time to create new content. I have suggested some things in the past to help alleviate this a bit. Things like... Companion quests that you stumble upon on various planets, have to have that particular companion active at the time. (hints could be given in dialogue) Discover more of your character's past. (now that we have gone forward, let's go back a bit) Hints at what the new coming threat might be and your role in it, how do you prepare for it? More about the relationships you now have (married to Kira... but she acts no different, or you hate one companion, how does that go now?) Give me reasons for my character to want to run Ops, or get geared more... etc... Purpose is very important in a story. The key would be rarity. Things that aren't just handed to you. You have to discover them, research, grind a bit, whatever... but tie the two together. Those are just a few, more creative people than me could come up with dozens of things... Edited March 2, 2012 by Meldwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have suggested some things in the past to help alleviate this a bit. Things like... Companion quests that you stumble upon on various planets, have to have that particular companion active at the time. (hints could be given in dialogue) Discover more of your character's past. (now that we have gone forward, let's go back a bit) Hints at what the new coming threat might be and your role in it, how do you prepare for it? More about the relationships you now have (married to Kira... but she acts no different, or you hate one companion, how does that go now?) Give me reasons for my character to want to run Ops, or get geared more... etc... Purpose is very important in a story. The key would be rarity. Things that aren't just handed to you. You have to discover them, research, grind a bit, whatever... but tie the two together. Those are just a few, more creative people than me could come up with dozens of things... Couldn't agree more. Hopefully BW also agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 i never once thought my individual story arc would be infinite. that you did isn't BWs fault. 90% of the things I did while leveling didn't have anything to do with my individual story either... I never once thought my individual story arc would be infinite either, but I expected a little more thought put in to end game than was clearly put in that area. BW has a ton of creative types that could have done soooo much better at giving end game a purpose and tying it to the leveling process. That's all I am saying. They wanted to innovate with Story, no one said they had to do that... But they chose that path, only to abandon it for end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Clearing MC and BWL in 1 night were common: Maybe one you had both on farm....no way in hell that was happening early on. MC wasn't even getting cleared for over a year by the vast majority. BWL was really hard when it was new. The OP has never set foot in BWL I bet. No hard content in Wrath/Cata: Wrath and Cata had some of the most difficult content ever in the game. Noobs got their 1st set of epics and pretended they were done. I could go on and on, but to even compare this game's endgame to WoW's it just hilarious in general. The entire post is uninformed to the point where I have to wonder if he's just trolling. well, BWL wasn't in wow at release. The first tier of raid content for every wow expansion has been just as easy as the first tier in swtor though. Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 well, BWL was in wow at release. The first tier of raid content for every wow expansion has been just as easy as the first tier in swtor though. No, it wasn't. MC was tier 1, BWL released over a year later and was T2. Maybe people just have no idea what they're talking about? MC was harder than anything in SWTOR btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 No, it wasn't. MC was tier 1, BWL released over a year later and was T2. Maybe people just have no idea what they're talking about? MC was harder than anything in SWTOR btw. yeah, that was a typo, you caught it before it was fixed. I cleared Naxx 40 during vanilla and was there for realm firsts for every boss from lucifron to KT, so i'm pretty familiar with raiding in wow. again, the first tier raid content for every wow expansion was a cakewalk, no different than swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 No, it wasn't. MC was tier 1, BWL released over a year later and was T2. Maybe people just have no idea what they're talking about? MC was harder than anything in SWTOR btw. did you just get here in a time machine from 2007? You seem to have missed every wow expansion for the past 5 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) yeah, that was a typo, you caught it before it was fixed. I cleared Naxx 40 during vanilla and was there for realm firsts for every boss from lucifron to KT, so i'm pretty familiar with raiding in wow. again, the first tier raid content for every wow expansion was a cakewalk, no different than swtor. Yep pugs were clearing it the 1st night just like SWTOR. Love how everyone on forums has world 1sts too, it's amazing! You don't have any world 1sts if you think the vanilla raids are on par with SWTOR. End of story. did you just get here in a time machine from 2007? You seem to have missed every wow expansion for the past 5 years... This makes no sense so I don't know what to say... Edited March 2, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 well, BWL wasn't in wow at release. The first tier of raid content for every wow expansion has been just as easy as the first tier in swtor though. Negative. That didn't start happening until Wrath. Previous to Wrath, it was bumpy to get started in raiding. MC required far too much fire resist gear. Getting geared enough to attempt Karazhan in BC was a pain and the leap from Karazhan (10man) to the 25man platform was uncomfortable for a lot of guilds. Raiding was far less popular in WoW before Wrath, for obvious reasons. What a lot of people want to forget is how many players were nudged away from PvE and to PvP during the Burning Crusade expansion. I remember quite a number of threads on those forums in those days about how "PvP stole mah raiders." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Negative. That didn't start happening until Wrath. Previous to Wrath, it was bumpy to get started in raiding. MC required far too much fire resist gear. Getting geared enough to attempt Karazhan in BC was a pain and the leap from Karazhan (10man) to the 25man platform was uncomfortable for a lot of guilds. Raiding was far less popular in WoW before Wrath, for obvious reasons. What a lot of people want to forget is how many players were nudged away from PvE and to PvP during the Burning Crusade expansion. I remember quite a number of threads on those forums in those days about how "PvP stole mah raiders." Exactly. They actually had to lower the bar to get into raiding because it was too difficult. Even in wrath there was difficult content, although you had to go much farther to reach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 While I hate the bloated blizzard monster pig as much the the next guy, to suggest that swtor has even a fraction of its content is laughable, no matter how you look at it. With 3 years of dev love swtor still couldnt match that behemoth for content... tor has a "fraction" of content compared to wow , yes... but given that at any time there is only ONE OR TWO current raids ( since anything pre cata doesnt really get you anything except some lulz with friends ) and aobut 6 or 7 current instances... outland/northrend dont really count since all you use them for now is as a leveling zone, NO ONE does ulduar anymore, NO ONE does old instances anymore , when was the last time you saw Mag? ony? when was the last time you did ICC and actually got something out of it? so say that wow has more "Current" content than Tor is a fallacy and completely innacurate , since neither you nor anyone @ level cap has any reason whatsoever to do anything thats pre cata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 yeah, that was a typo, you caught it before it was fixed. I cleared Naxx 40 during vanilla and was there for realm firsts for every boss from lucifron to KT, so i'm pretty familiar with raiding in wow. again, the first tier raid content for every wow expansion was a cakewalk, no different than swtor. MC was a cakewalk if you did it while wearing BC gear. If you did it in level appropriate dungeon gear, it was very difficult. Especially if you tried to do it before Decursive was written to assist with the multitude of debuffs. Oh and as Horde, it was much easier in BC after paladins came to the Horde. MC was a pain, Horde-side without paladins. Doable, but more difficult than Alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Yep pugs were clearing it the 1st night just like SWTOR. This makes no sense so I don't know what to say... at this time after BC was all tier 1 raid content cleared? yes at this time after Wrath was all tier 1 raid content cleared? yes at this time after cata was all tier 1 raid content cleared? yes let's stop talking about vanilla wow and talk about the current iterations of the game? are you even aware that there are no 40 man raids anymore? if the final tier of swtor raid content before the first expansion is easier than dragon soul then we can talk. Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) MC was a cakewalk if you did it while wearing BC gear. MC wasn't part of an expansion. Seriously, guys. Vanilla wow is dead. It was fun while it lasted, but it's gone. Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) at this time after BC was all tier 1 raid content cleared? yes at this time after Wrath was all tier 1 raid content cleared? yes at this time after cata was all raid tier 1 content cleared? yes let's stop talking about vanilla wow and talk about the current iterations of the game? are you even aware that there are no 40 man raids anymore? if the final tier of raid content before the first expansion is easier than wow then we can talk. Yes I am aware, it still blows the pants off this excuse for an endgame. I don't know if you got carried or what but comparing the difficulties is laughable. MC wasn't part of an expansion. Seriously, guys. Vanilla wow is dead. It was fun while it lasted, but it's gone. He was making the point that nobody who knew what they were talking about would say BWL was really easy on release. He is correct. Even MC was tough if you hit it when it was new, which you clearly didn't. Edited March 2, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes I am aware, it still blows the pants off this excuse for an endgame. I don't know if you got carried or what but comparing the difficulties is laughable. That you saw any difficulty in the first tier raids of BC, Wrath, or Cata is kind of laughable. Fighting over which faceroll content is easier is just a bit silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) That you saw any difficulty in the first tier raids of BC, Wrath, or Cata is kind of laughable. Fighting over which faceroll content is easier is just a bit silly. Spoken like a noob. You clearly weren't around when things were new. Oh well. I never said the 1st tier of those expansions was that hard btw, that's all you, but they are light years ahead of the garbage here, no question. I bet you haven't completed BC, Wrath or Cata. You already lied about having world 1sts so I really can't trust you anyways. Edited March 2, 2012 by Gohlar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Listening to old WoW players talk about their recollection of how things were reminds me of the "DP bench" in any small town. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 let's stop talking about vanilla wow and talk about the current iterations of the game? Lets not because vanilla is where WoW saw most of it's expanse and ever since TBC that game's population growth has slowed eventually to the point of being stagnent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) at this time after BC was all tier 1 raid content cleared? yes Assuming you mean 1.5 months after release? No, if it was it was only by professionally sponsored guilds that are paid to play the game. The rest of the world was still working on their gear and Karazhan keys. Let's not forget the quest line known as "Hand of A'dal" - that required several heroic dungeons to be ran which at the time required just about the same gear level that was awarded in raids. Heroic dungeons were very overtuned at the start of BC. at this time after Wrath was all tier 1 raid content cleared? yes Yes. Blizzard did a better job of making Wrath tier 1 (Naxx10) accessible. at this time after cata was all raid tier 1 content cleared? yes No, unless you want to count professionally sponsored guilds again - which are what? 0.0001% of the playerbase? let's stop talking about vanilla wow and talk about the current iterations of the game? are you even aware that there are no 40 man raids anymore? if the final tier of raid content before the first expansion is easier than wow then we can talk. If you are going to compare TOR to the latest content level of WoW - then they are even for content. When people try to claim WoW has more content than TOR, which is technically true; however, 95% of that content is completely irrelevant to the current game, then an honest comparison will have to take in account the older content and how accessible and enjoyable it was. Pre-Wrath, it sucked most times to break into the raid game. It sucked bad enough that many players did not even attempt it. There were attunements, keys, rep grinds, gear grinds (specific resists) and then high maintenance costs for consumables and gear repairs. There was not even a raid interface (raid frames) for almost a year. You had to use addons to raid unless you was a non-mage DPS. Some of you would cry foul so hard they would hear it on Tabula Rasa's defunct forums if TOR shipped without a raid interface. WoW did. Yes, the big MMO giant released incomplete. In reality, it released with about only 10% of the total end game content available back in 2004. TOR, even though the UI can stand to be improved, at least covers all the bases and is functional out of the box. The normal mode content can be completed without spending months fighting RNG and running flashpoints over and over, numerous times back to back, hoping that piece of +10 fire resist gear drops on your 35th dungeon clear. Edited March 2, 2012 by Raeln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Listening to old WoW players talk about their recollection of how things were reminds me of the "DP bench" in any small town. LOL Basically, anyone who actually played WoW raids wouldn't say the nonsense the OP is. That's pretty much it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Spoken like a noob. You clearly weren't around when things were new. Oh well. Sure I was. When I started playing wow hunters didn't have talents and still had a focus bar. Tauren still had plainsrunning, undead were immune to fear and they got pwned by palis, the only "epic" mount in the game that didn't look identical to the normal ones was the recolored undead baron mount. MC was hard, BWL was hard because of Vael then easy to chromag, AQ40 was relatively easy until the twins, and Naxx 40 made your butt hurt. That game doesn't exist anymore. Sunwell was the last of the guild killers. If you're judging any MMO against vanilla wow they all fail, even wow. Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Basically, anyone who actually played WoW raids wouldn't say the nonsense the OP is. That's pretty much it. This, For WoW's release to have "as much raid content" as SWTOR, LBRS and UBRS at three difficulty settings would have to have been the only raids in the game. WoW's raids on release was months of 40 man runs to get what you want. SWTOR's raids on release is weeks of 8 man raids to get what you want. Theres a bit of a drop off here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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