The thought that WoW has more endgame content

[Necrolepsy]

While I hate the bloated blizzard monster pig as much the the next guy, to suggest that swtor has even a fraction of its content is laughable, no matter how you look at it. With 3 years of dev love swtor still couldnt match that behemoth for content...

 

Outdated content is almost never run by people who don't raid, so the content from the past is useless. To say previous tiers of content are "end-game" is laughable. To say a fresh MMO should have several tiers of content on launch is idiotic, the whole point of tiering content is to segment it.

[madmikeyb]

Doesn't matter if WOW has more cause of expansions or 8 years, TOR should have just as much. Did you expect DA2 to have less content? no but it did. I want more and better things, i mean if your going to compete you need to have what they have NOW or what wow has in content. WHY? simple a lot play wow and when they come here and find out oh great we have even less here to do so why stay? I hate WOW how ever the fact it has 8 years of content and Bioware had 5 years to develope something better and unique.

 

3 warzones get boring should be atleast 10 or more

Doulbe the amount of Fp or HM fp

 

 

 

For some reason bioware felt that coming out and having almost same thing at launch WOW did content was from 7 years ago was going to keep people happy or busy wasn't thought out very well. Consumer expectations go up not down. They should have enough content as WOW has NOW......If they didn't want people to compare the two they should of been more innovative and original but besides a few things here and their you could tell they tried to get the WOW cash cow. I wanted something new and different specially since WOW was boring to me...

[Terebor]

Just one fun comparison...

 

in vanilla after i got to level 60 it took weeks to get your first epic item. World drops have not been lvl 60. I can remember getting a leather belt from Scholomance which was lvl 56 or 57.

Here i got to lvl 50 and the same day i had my first epic item.

 

i nearly got to full epic without even having participated in a raid. In this game most of the stuff gets thrown at you withou doing any big effort. Honestly guys...is this the kind of experience u want to have? Gettin everything with no real challenge?

 

I think ppl that are new to this kind of game are quite happy because they can see improvement very fast (gearwise).

 

Was it possible to do heroic instances (fast runs) without healer? no way....oh even normal ones in wow have been impossible without at least 1 guy that could throw in some heals (ele shamis /shadow priests etc).

 

Here in ToR you can run BT HM without healer...no problem just done it an hour ago.

 

 

Endcomment:

 

I really enjoy this game...the story is fascinating, but its so easy to get what ever you need that i miss the challenge...i miss having to talk to grp mates to get proper tactics...

its like: 3,2,1 ZEEERRRRGGGGGGGG! and it works...

 

i really hope that the put op greater challenges in the upcoming patches...and i hope that the so called Elitists find their proper spot in this game...cause they deserve it as much as any casual player.

 

cheers

[Azzras]

Basically, anyone who actually played WoW raids wouldn't say the nonsense the OP is.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

I played WoW raids and to be honest...I'm sick and *********** tired of Ony and Rag being rehashed over and over again.

 

I heard they're rehashing bosses for kung fu panda pokemon adventures xpac as well.

 

Seriously, *** does it take to keep Ony dead?

[Vlaxitov]

Sure I was. When I started playing wow hunters didn't have talents and still had a focus bar. Tauren still had plainsrunning, undead were immune to fear and they got pwned by palis, the only "epic" mount in the game that didn't look identical to the normal ones was the recolored undead baron mount. MC was hard, BWL was hard because of Vael then easy to chromag, AQ40 was relatively easy until the twins, and Naxx 40 made your butt hurt. That game doesn't exist anymore. Sunwell was the last of the guild killers. If you're judging any MMO against vanilla wow they all fail, even wow.

 

LOL, plainsrunning and the undead features you listed weren't there on release and neither were you.

[iceperson]

LOL, plainsrunning and the undead features you listed weren't there on release and neither were you.

 

I didn't say they were there on release. I said that's how things were when I started playing wow. In beta we didn't even have sidebars, we had to download cosmos ui to get more than the 2 bars at the bottom.

Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson

[areto]

LOL, plainsrunning and the undead features you listed weren't there on release and neither were you.

 

I think you'll find he's suggesting he was in the beta.

[Raeln]

Sure I was. When I started playing wow hunters didn't have talents and still had a focus bar.

 

Beta.

 

Tauren still had plainsrunning

 

Beta.

 

undead were immune to fear and they got pwned by palis

 

Beta.

 

the only "epic" mount in the game that didn't look identical to the normal ones was the recolored undead baron mount.

 

Patched after release. I don't think there were epic mounts at release.

 

MC was hard, BWL was hard because of Vael then easy to chromag, AQ40 was relatively easy until the twins, and Naxx 40 made your butt hurt.

 

Didn't you say that all the WoW raids were easy?

 

That game doesn't exist anymore.

 

Nope, losing customers typically does that to you. The carrot on a string only works if the donkey actually perceives it can "reach" the carrot. For many players toward the end of Vanilla and in BC, the PvE carrot felt miles away, certainly not just a few inches from their mouths.

 

Sunwell was the last of the guild killers.

 

One of Sunwell's chief problems was a stacking problem with shaman and warlocks. That and the progression curve to even attempt Sunwell excluding the vast majority of players. It wasn't that Sunwell broke guilds, it was that many guilds were never able to recruit enough shamans and warlocks (and gear them) to be able to successful in Sunwell for the short time it was out before Wrath launched.

 

Note: this is why Sunwell was included in the Quel'Delar quest line (so development could report that more players actually seen the zone and justify it's immense development cost).

 

If you're judging any MMO against vanilla wow they all fail, even wow.

 

Makes no sense. Raiding was not popular in WoW during Vanilla. Out of Blizzard's own mouths, they even said that only 4 out of 10 player accounts had even stepped foot in a PvE raid zone one time during Vanilla. In other words, only 40% of all player accounts during Vanilla had zoned into any of the PvE raid zones once. Obviously, the number of players that actually raided regularly is going to be far, far less than that.

 

In any other business, a pursuit like developing raid content with those absorption numbers would have been deemed unprofitable and greatly minimized in future content updates. That's why Wrath happened. That's why Naxx was recycled and that's why Sunwell was written into the Quel'Delar quest line.

 

I have no doubt that if Wrath hadn't lowered the bar and in turn increased raid absorption numbers, Blizzard would have either dropped raiding altogether in lieu of something else or minimized it to the point that it was insignificant.

 

Make no mistake, the Vanilla/BC raid model was entirely and utterly unprofitable.

[Tiaa]

I think a lot of the people are complaining there isnt enough to do NOW. Though I will say expecting a 2 month old game to have remotely as much content as an 8 year old game is silly.

 

On top of that, the MAJORITY weren't clearing WoW content at the rate of this game.

 

This game is all about grinding levels.

 

This isn't even a real MMO so stop comparing it to WoW.

[Raeln]

This,

 

For WoW's release to have "as much raid content" as SWTOR, LBRS and UBRS at three difficulty settings would have to have been the only raids in the game.

 

WoW's raids on release was months of 40 man runs to get what you want.

 

SWTOR's raids on release is weeks of 8 man raids to get what you want.

 

Theres a bit of a drop off here.

 

The "months of 40 man runs to get what you want" seems like more content because you had to run weeks and weeks of dungeons to get the fire resist gear to enable you to bang your head on the wall while trying to down each boss in MC.

 

Been there, done that. I prefer the TOR model, thanks.

[Raeln]

I didn't say they were there on release. I said that's how things were when I started playing wow. In beta we didn't even have sidebars, we had to download cosmos ui to get more than the 2 bars at the bottom.

 

The two bars on the side were there in beta.

 

Raid frames were not, which is what I think you are referring to. All raiders had to use CT_RaidAssist to raid. It was a package that included several addons that were added months later to the default UI. Most guilds would bench/kick you if you didn't use CT_RA. In fact, CT_RA eventually included a check that raid leadership could use to report who was not using the addon or who did not have an updated version.

 

I never claimed any world firsts, but I was a hardcore progression raider in those days. I spent a whole lot of time trying to farm money as a Holy specced priest outside of my raiding to keep stocked on the chug-a-lug mana potions and elixirs.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Raeln

[Azzras]

On top of that, the MAJORITY weren't clearing WoW content at the rate of this game.

 

This game is all about grinding levels.

 

This isn't even a real MMO so stop comparing it to WoW.

 

WoW isn't a real MMO so stop comparing it to SWTOR.

[Terebor]

The "months of 40 man runs to get what you want" seems like more content because you had to run weeks and weeks of dungeons to get the fire resist gear to enable you to bang your head on the wall while trying to down each boss in MC.

 

Been there, done that. I prefer the TOR model, thanks.

 

Its no new information that players nowadays tend to rather get their stuff fast and effortless, which takes me to the question why play at all. Is it the need to just pass by some time? I dunno...i'm in for the challenge, i believe if you get stuff to easy you will get bored very fast.

 

Vanilla was a real time consuming hobby...raids where hard and after a raid eve i was tired as hell. After downing a new Boss it felt like we had achieved something...thats the reason why i loved to play.

 

ToR is just like WoW is now...you log in try to get you PVE/PVP dailies and weeklies done, maybe faceroll through EV and then log out and ask yourself why you're still full of energy.

 

Edit: I forgot to say again that i really like this game...but it lacks challenge...it has a lot of nice stuff inside and u can see by the design that it can pick up a lot of more funstuff. But IMO nowadays a MMO coming out has to be so utterly breathtakeing to get the experienced MMO players tp drool.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Terebor

[iceperson]

Didn't you say that all the WoW raids were easy?

 

No, I said the first tier of wow raids for every wow expansion was easy. Stop comparing swtor to a game that simply doesn't exist anymore. The current competition has easy tier 1 raids. That's what MMOs have become.

 

Makes no sense. Raiding was not popular in WoW during Vanilla

 

In the context of the discussion that was in regard to difficulty.

Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson

[Vlaxitov]

The "months of 40 man runs to get what you want" seems like more content because you had to run weeks and weeks of dungeons to get the fire resist gear to enable you to bang your head on the wall while trying to down each boss in MC.

 

Been there, done that. I prefer the TOR model, thanks.

 

After about 5 easy peasy raid nights and you have and you already have everything you want in game, come back and tell me how much better ToR's model is, thanks.

[Vlaxitov]

I think you'll find he's suggesting he was in the beta.

 

Yes hes mixing beta with the last month or two of vanilla when everyone had their TBC skills that trivialized raiding for the worst of both worlds to draw a comparison to this game. That speaks in volumes.

[Raeln]

Its no new information that players nowadays tend to rather get their stuff fast and effortless, which takes me to the question why play at all. Is it the need to just pass by some time? I dunno...i'm in for the challenge, i believe if you get stuff to easy you will get bored very fast.

 

Vanilla was a real time consuming hobby...raids where hard and after a raid eve i was tired as hell. After downing a new Boss it felt like we had achieved something...thats the reason why i loved to play.

 

ToR is just like WoW is now...you log in try to get you PVE/PVP dailies and weeklies done, maybe faceroll through EV and then log out and ask yourself why you're still full of energy.

 

You are in a very small subset of the MMO genre population. It took years for Blizzard to figure out that the content they built for you was completely uninteresting to the larger portion of the playerbase that was more interested in just having activities to do with their online friends.

 

Blizzard had awesome success with the Wrath model. Toward the end of Wrath, they began pandering to the smaller subset of players again with trying to claim they made a mistake with making Wrath too easy. Following that line of thinking, they made Cataclysm what it is, which ended up being labeled Failaclysm by many who enjoyed the Wrath model. Thus began the exodus of people leaving Cataclysm for other games. The end-game content model was too exclusive, for multiple reasons, and players who could do relevant end-game activities with their friends found themselves no longer able to do much of anything aside from normal dungeons.

 

So they looked for other venues of entertainment. Lucky for some of them, that was just about the time Rift launched.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Raeln

[Terebor]

After about 5 easy peasy raid nights and you have and you already have everything you want in game, come back and tell me how much better ToR's model is, thanks.

 

Completely sign...

 

the only question is how large the part of the community is that actually wants to be more challenged...i hope its the majority...

 

at this point the only thing that keeps us from clearing the Ops without wipe are bug...nuff said.

[Raeln]

No, I said the first tier of wow raids for every wow expansion was easy. Stop comparing swtor to a game that simply doesn't exist anymore. The current competition has easy tier 1 raids. That's what MMOs have become.

 

 

 

In the context of the discussion that was in regard to difficulty.

 

So you are saying Karazhan and SSC was easy as pie and completed by a large percentage of the player population at 1.5 months after BC's release?

[Raeln]

After about 5 easy peasy raid nights and you have and you already have everything you want in game, come back and tell me how much better ToR's model is, thanks.

 

Fine by me.

 

I have 7 other classes to run the story on and codex entries to discover on my main. After that - I have other games in my library. I have Arkham City that I haven't finished, it's still at 5% story completion - I've been waiting until I get to my finished goal on my main before diving into it. ME3 is just around the corner too.

 

You see, I don't expect a single game (MMO or not) to be the sole provider of my entertainment. Even while I'm doing my dailies and unlocking codex entries in TOR, I'm watching Netflix on my second monitor. It's a matter of perspective - don't expect your 50 cents a day to provide you with 24/7 entertainment and you won't be disappointed.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Raeln

[UnleashedSithGod]

I feel like I just read an article about evolution written by a creationist.

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahaahHAAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHHAH

[Azzras]

Heh, no one wants to comment on how many times they faced Ony?

 

Cut her head off and she came back.

 

Did it again and she came back.

 

I wonder what she'll look like in the next xpac?

 

Oh, let's not forget Nax rehash. First tier of a new xpac was a rehash?

 

Sad and lazy.

 

Then Rag is rehashed.

 

Troll areas rehashed.

 

Yup, WoW has so much content, don't they?

 

[iceperson]

Yes hes mixing beta with the last month or two of vanilla when everyone had their TBC skills that trivialized raiding for the worst of both worlds to draw a comparison to this game. That speaks in volumes.

 

actually i didn't play vanilla after we beat KT in naxx 40 (took a break from the game until BC came out and played DOTA.) i never saw TBC skills until I resubbed for TBC. i do remember not getting realm first raz because alliance DI'd the controller or some such cheese. you want to compare notes on vanilla i can go all day. I remember when the only way to get attack power was with dal rends blades and rogues crying because they were BIS for hunters. i remember blizz adding an attack power polearm to quell the rogue qq.

Edited March 2, 2012 by iceperson

[Raeln]

Completely sign...

 

the only question is how large the part of the community is that actually wants to be more challenged...i hope its the majority...

 

at this point the only thing that keeps us from clearing the Ops without wipe are bug...nuff said.

 

It's pretty easy to tell that the majority of MMO players do not want a great challenge in their game. They want to be able to do something in game with their online friends and feel like their character is stronger for the investment.

 

Banging heads against the wall in the name of challenge typically just causes drama and sucks the entertainment out of the experience for many players.

[Terebor]

You are in a very small subset of the MMO genre population. It took years for Blizzard to figure out that the content they built for you was completely uninteresting to the larger portion of the playerbase that was more interested in just having activities to do with their online friends.

 

Blizzard had awesome success with the Wrath model. Toward the end of Wrath, they because pandering to the smaller subset of players again with trying to claim they made a mistake with making Wrath too easy. Following that line of thinking, they made Cataclysm what it is, which ended up being labeled Failaclysm by many who enjoyed the Wrath model. Thus began the exodus of people leaving Cataclysm for other games. The end-game content model was too exclusive, for multiple reasons, and players who could do relevant end-game activities with their friends found themselves no longer able to do much of anything aside from normal dungeons.

 

So they looked for other venues of entertainment. Lucky for some of them, that was just about the time Rift launched.

 

I don't really know about that but i wasn't doing highend raiding untill end of BC. I considered myself as a casual player, even started out as Roleplayer. But my experience showed my that this "subset of the mmo genre population" wasnt as small as you try to make it here...As I said i was an RP player on a RP Server...but we had loads of raids in vanilla...and that was just on a RP server...so imagine the PVE and PVP servers

 

Ofc if you talk about ppl like FTH and Nihilum i agree...the population on this level was very small...but it was them Who made WoW such a great game...without ppl like this IMO every MMO will die