Orange Gear, Epic Loot and all the Shouting

[kedobanfey]

There's been some shouting on this forum I've heard over the upcoming ideas for orange gear becoming more readily available, mostly through crafting.

 

Not only that I've heard that the greatest wailing and gnashing of teeth has been over the fact that the "epic loot" (raid gear, pvp gear, etc) Will itsel be considered orange gear. It's mods, armoring, barrels crystals, etc will be able to be removed and put onto other orange gear along with set bonuses.

 

For those carrying on cranky about this change, consdier that you're complaining in the wrong direction. These items must still be gained through the effort of raiding or pvp matches. Someone still has to put in that effort and then the additional effort or in game money spent on crafting or buying the orange gear they can put all these modules in.

If your complaint is about being able to see if someone is geared enough at a glance then perhaps what you should be requesting is a little 'i' icon or something that can be clicked over a selected target that will preform the same function as the Inspect option. Yes this will take more effort and time, but that small amount of time spent to absolutely inspect someone will benefit many other players at the same time, so we ask that you please give u a few moments and effort so the rest of us can enjoy character appearances while we also try to raid very hard for you.

 

Raiding or PVP, as you see it, is all about effort and strain. The effort of examining each member of your raid or pvp group is an additional strain. Shouldn't it prove if you check everyone how hard you work in your raid or pvp group?

 

For those who are in support of this kind of change, we need to see you more on the forums, giving good, thoughtful and above all curteous responses in support of this change. As Bioware/EA, like every other company, responds only to metrics we have to provide enough response data for them to move a change we like through to development.

 

tl;dr versyon:

You wanted a game that wasn't exactly like WoW, so stop shouting down every different than WoW change that comes along

[Dystopic]

All I really want is to be able to take the armor out of purps and put them into orange gear as was originally intended so my sage stops looking like a mage hobo.

[kedobanfey]

All I really want is to be able to take the armor out of purps and put them into orange gear as was originally intended so my sage stops looking like a mage hobo.

 

Exactly! Or those really crazy headdresses that just don't quite give me the old sagely jedi look. Or the bounty hunter armor with the funny plugs in the back.

 

We still have to work (just can't be fun can it?) and give effort to gaint he actual purple items that we then have to pay for with in game money to extract the mods so we can keep the look we like. Hell, a hardcore raider just has to wear their set, we have to go about getting poor so we can look stylish while doing thsoe same raids.

[AsheraII]

Well, there is a way to make purple modded gear stand out more easily, it won't be in the patch next month, but maybe they can do it in a special patch on the first day of the month right after:

 

Make every other letter in the item name match colour with the most commonly used grade of modifications. So you'd get something like:

Orange Gear With Purple Mods

vs

Orange Gear With Green Mods

 

Hey, don't blame at me, it's just a suggestion for the people who want it convenient and simple and everything.

Edited February 28, 2012 by AsheraII

[Maltuvion]

Exactly! Or those really crazy headdresses that just don't quite give me the old sagely jedi look. Or the bounty hunter armor with the funny plugs in the back.

 

We still have to work (just can't be fun can it?) and give effort to gaint he actual purple items that we then have to pay for with in game money to extract the mods so we can keep the look we like. Hell, a hardcore raider just has to wear their set, we have to go about getting poor so we can look stylish while doing thsoe same raids.

 

Except the hardcore raider will additionally have to craft an obscene amount of orange items for each slot in order to get a Mastercraft procc, which translates into +28 to whatever stat he desires. Per item slot.

 

Raiders will have to put alot more effort into gearing than casuals, on top of actually doing the raiding.

[GawdoOo]

Except the hardcore raider will additionally have to craft an obscene amount of orange items for each slot in order to get a Mastercraft procc, which translates into +28 to whatever stat he desires. Per item slot.

 

Raiders will have to put alot more effort into gearing than casuals, on top of actually doing the raiding.

 

And then the casuals will complain that it takes to much effort to get the augment slots, and coming crying on the forums because they have to work to get the same things that other people work to get.

[kedobanfey]

And then the casuals will complain that it takes to much effort to get the augment slots, and coming crying on the forums because they have to work to get the same things that other people work to get.

 

It's one thing to give the effort of crafting, which doesn't take a multitude of people several hours to preform. It can be done in segments over many periods of logging in, crafting, logging out and repeating. Very casual friendly and since the original parts are required, the raiding still must be done anyway.

 

Really the whole matter is about apperances not casual vs hardcore. The hardcore effort must still be done for the same stat bonuses, but the appearance need no longer be enforced by the hardcore players demand for distinction and exclusion.

[kedobanfey]

Except the hardcore raider will additionally have to craft an obscene amount of orange items for each slot in order to get a Mastercraft procc, which translates into +28 to whatever stat he desires. Per item slot.

 

Raiders will have to put alot more effort into gearing than casuals, on top of actually doing the raiding.

 

Casuals will not be doing the raids and will not have the statisutics to begin with. A raider doing these efforts will still be head and shoulders abovet he rest, and anyone doing these things and putting them on the orange items they like can also appear as they wish, rather than how all the raiders wish them to appear.

[genesiser]

The complaints aren't because you can now take out mods from raid gear and put them into orange gear. The complaints are because when you have customizable gear that has an extra slot, it now becomes best in slot.

 

The point of customizable gear is to allow you to look however you wish while maintaining your stats no matter what gear you have equipped. With the upcoming change with crit crafting customizable gear, that gear is now going to be required.

 

Before people complained that they had to wear their tier gear or pvp gear because there were no mod equivalent to them and everyone looked the same. In 1.2 people will be forced to wear crit crafted gear because you get more stats out of it.

 

The only way to truly make all gear wearable which is the design of the system especially with the ability to remove mods from tier gear and pvp gear is to either allow augments be put on all armor regardless of augment slot or not (like enchants in other games), allow armormech or synthweavers to make an item that adds a slot to it's designated armor type, or just have an appearance tab.

 

With 1.2 instead of level 50s looking like clones, people of all levels will be wearing one of three sets of armor because it's customizable gear with an augment slot and you can get the most out of your char with that gear. Seeing as people of all levels will be wearing it, this game will truly become clone wars.

Edited February 28, 2012 by genesiser

[kedobanfey]

The complaints aren't because you can now take out mods from raid gear and put them into orange gear. The complaints are because when you have customizable gear that has an extra slot, it now becomes best in slot.

 

The point of customizable gear is to allow you to look however you wish while maintaining your stats no matter what gear you have equipped. With the upcoming change with crit crafting customizable gear, that gear is now going to be required.

 

Before people complained that they had to wear their tier gear or pvp gear because there were no mod equivalent to them and everyone looked the same. In 1.2 people will be forced to wear crit crafted gear because you get more stats out of it.

 

The only way to truly make all gear wearable which is the design of the system especially with the ability to remove mods from tier gear and pvp gear is to either allow augments be put on all armor regardless of augment slot or not (like enchants in other games), allow armormech or synthweavers to make an item that adds a slot to it's designated armor type, or just have an appearance tab.

 

With 1.2 instead of level 50s looking like clones, people of all levels will be wearing one of three sets of armor because it's customizable gear with an augment slot and you can get the most out of your char with that gear. Seeing as people of all levels will be wearing it, this game will truly become clone wars.

 

There are a dozen differen types of orange type gear appearnces so there will not likely be any kind clones wandering about. Much less so than anything you'd see at the high end today anyway. I can agree that the extra audment slot could be something left out since it makes that particualr kind of orange gear nearly mandatory. However just because there's this possible flaw doesn't mean the idea as a whole needs to be shut down as most hard core people seem to be trying to do.

[techslave]

you DO realize they will be adding more schema for oranges, right? i think theyll even do it in 1.2

[kedobanfey]

you DO realize they will be adding more schema for oranges, right? i think theyll even do it in 1.2

 

More oranges is good, more diversity of appearance. And we can possibly put all that raid gear mods and bonuses on them too. hopefully the new oranges will look nice to boot.

[kedobanfey]

you DO realize they will be adding more schema for oranges, right? i think theyll even do it in 1.2

 

More oranges is good, more diversity of appearance. And we can possibly put all that raid gear mods and bonuses on them too. hopefully the new oranges will look nice to boot.

[genesiser]

Even if they add 20 different sets of craftable orange gear it won't make a huge difference. Chances are the new recipes will require 400 crafting to make them. 400 crafting items require harder to come by mats so they'll be super expensive. Not only that, but by making certain customizable gear have an extra slot, they have pretty much made all flash point, operation, planet commendation, pvp, and heroic planet mission gear obsolete. Some of that gear may be cool looking. But it doesn't matter because it has one less stat slot on it thus making it inferior.

 

I just don't understand why the point of the system is let you wear whatever armor you want, especially in 1.2, but then turn around and make certain customizable gear have an extra stat slot thus almost guaranteeing the majority of the player base will be wearing those sets of gear.

 

Augments should be like enchants where you can put them on any piece of gear. Keep the level restrictions on them but let them go on all gear. It's the only way their idea of "look any way you want" to work.

[techslave]

Even if they add 20 different sets of craftable orange gear it won't make a huge difference. Chances are the new recipes will require 400 crafting to make them. 400 crafting items require harder to come by mats so they'll be super expensive. Not only that, but by making certain customizable gear have an extra slot, they have pretty much made all flash point, operation, planet commendation, pvp, and heroic planet mission gear obsolete. Some of that gear may be cool looking. But it doesn't matter because it has one less stat slot on it thus making it inferior.

 

I just don't understand why the point of the system is let you wear whatever armor you want, especially in 1.2, but then turn around and make certain customizable gear have an extra stat slot thus almost guaranteeing the majority of the player base will be wearing those sets of gear.

 

Augments should be like enchants where you can put them on any piece of gear. Keep the level restrictions on them but let them go on all gear. It's the only way their idea of "look any way you want" to work.

 

i agree with the augment idea. that would be a great solution. not sure what kind of code overhaul that would take.

 

i would also go one further and recommend ALL orange gear be crit-able (word?) regardless of level. i am a smuggler who loves his Dreliad Jacket (looks like a Colonial Warrior in the original, good, Battlestar Galactica). if i could get one with the extra slot that would make my game time that much more enjoyable.

[kedobanfey]

Even if they add 20 different sets of craftable orange gear it won't make a huge difference. Chances are the new recipes will require 400 crafting to make them. 400 crafting items require harder to come by mats so they'll be super expensive. Not only that, but by making certain customizable gear have an extra slot, they have pretty much made all flash point, operation, planet commendation, pvp, and heroic planet mission gear obsolete. Some of that gear may be cool looking. But it doesn't matter because it has one less stat slot on it thus making it inferior.

 

I just don't understand why the point of the system is let you wear whatever armor you want, especially in 1.2, but then turn around and make certain customizable gear have an extra stat slot thus almost guaranteeing the majority of the player base will be wearing those sets of gear.

 

Augments should be like enchants where you can put them on any piece of gear. Keep the level restrictions on them but let them go on all gear. It's the only way their idea of "look any way you want" to work.

 

That extra slot is going to apply to alot more gear pieces than the current uniform sets that are available for pve/pvp. Some of the current purples will become orange too, so you can keep what you want anyway. Any orange that is crafted that has that crit happen will have that extra slot. Some will be more expensive to craft that others. Orange sets with that extra slot will be available to many people because oranges will be across the spectrum of levels and material costs and with the proper mods can be equivilant to the needs of a raid, a pvp match or any other need.

 

There's talk I've heard of any critical when REing a piece being capable of turning it into an orange, having the augment slot or BOTH, so, all kinds of gear that weren't orange before can be. Basically this kind of change opens up a pleothra of possiblities instead of requiring we all wear the same thing when being the same class. Whatever happened to fighting comformity?

[kedobanfey]

As an addition:

 

Doesn't the requirement of adding some form of augment to add a slot to an armor or weapon create the same problem as an armor or weapon needing that extra augment slot when being created to begin with? Either way the only optimal path then becomes having that extra addition that was the problem to begin with.

[ShadowOfVey]

The only thing I don't like about it is the way augment slots are handled.

 

It sucks that you're actually FORCED to opt into the system due to needing the open aug slot. There should be some npc that will add an aug slot to an item for a high price (or crafted items that add an aug slot to an item that take expensive mats, either is fine with me).

 

If it was relatively expensive to do, it'd still be desirable to grab the moddable orange items from crafters instead but at least if you wanted to have the look of your original gear you could do so.

[kedobanfey]

The only thing I don't like about it is the way augment slots are handled.

 

It sucks that you're actually FORCED to opt into the system due to needing the open aug slot. There should be some npc that will add an aug slot to an item for a high price (or crafted items that add an aug slot to an item that take expensive mats, either is fine with me).

 

If it was relatively expensive to do, it'd still be desirable to grab the moddable orange items from crafters instead but at least if you wanted to have the look of your original gear you could do so.

 

I can agree with you there. I'd rather the whole augment thing be taken out altogether but the rest of the changes remain as is. A good compramise.

[genesiser]

That extra slot is going to apply to alot more gear pieces than the current uniform sets that are available for pve/pvp. Some of the current purples will become orange too, so you can keep what you want anyway. Any orange that is crafted that has that crit happen will have that extra slot. Some will be more expensive to craft that others. Orange sets with that extra slot will be available to many people because oranges will be across the spectrum of levels and material costs and with the proper mods can be equivilant to the needs of a raid, a pvp match or any other need.

 

There's talk I've heard of any critical when REing a piece being capable of turning it into an orange, having the augment slot or BOTH, so, all kinds of gear that weren't orange before can be. Basically this kind of change opens up a pleothra of possiblities instead of requiring we all wear the same thing when being the same class. Whatever happened to fighting comformity?

 

Answer my question please.

 

If the idea is to allow you to wear any piece of gear by swapping out mods so you have the same stats, then why have *some* customizable gear have a higher threshold of stats? If you give players two pieces of gear to choose from. One piece has 28 more of any stat of their choosing but doesn't look how they like and the other piece has 28 less stats but looks how they want, chances are, hardcore or casual, that player will choose the item with more stats. Now instead of 1 piece you have 6. (head, chest, legs, feet, bracers, belt, weapon) So instead of 28 less stats you now have 168 less stats. Negative 168 is quite a bit of power loss. Do you really think a person will choose a look over 168 stat points? The answer is no.

 

So do you really think the system coming out with some customizable gear with higher stat thresholds is actually a good idea and not counter productive towards their goal of letting people wear what they want?

 

PS I just want to add I like the idea of being able to take mods out of raid and pvp items and being able to put them in any piece of gear. What I don't like is the idea of some customizable gear having a higher threshold than other customizable gear because players will be forced to go with the gear with higher stats and it makes all non crit crafted custom gear worthless.

Edited February 28, 2012 by genesiser

[Coiffio]

I find it funny that in swtor, you actually look worse as you progress.

[kedobanfey]

Answer my question please.

 

If the idea is to allow you to wear any piece of gear by swapping out mods so you have the same stats, then why have *some* customizable gear have a higher threshold of stats? If you give players two pieces of gear to choose from. One piece has 28 more of any stat of their choosing but doesn't look how they like and the other piece has 28 less stats but looks how they want, chances are, hardcore or casual, that player will choose the item with more stats. Now instead of 1 piece you have 6. (head, chest, legs, feet, bracers, belt, weapon) So instead of 28 less stats you now have 168 less stats. Negative 168 is quite a bit of power loss. Do you really think a person will choose a look over 168 stat points? The answer is no.

 

So do you really think the system coming out with some customizable gear with higher stat thresholds is actually a good idea and not counter productive towards their goal of letting people wear what they want?

 

PS I just want to add I like the idea of being able to take mods out of raid and pvp items and being able to put them in any piece of gear. What I don't like is the idea of some customizable gear having a higher threshold than other customizable gear because players will be forced to go with the gear with higher stats and it makes all non crit crafted custom gear worthless.

 

Be glad to answer your question when you have a succinct one with a question mark ending it so that I understand all references.

 

I'll try my best however from what you've posted. I have already stated I'm not really fond of some gear having the extra slot, augment slot, whatever thing. I'd like to see it gone altogether so it's not a fuss. Hell I'd like to see all gear made to be orange maybe some is just green to help get you started but even it can have an appearnace form. Appearance slots are great, but the already existing code for orange gear works well too. In fact having to pay to extract mods creates a money sink, good for MMO economies.

 

As far as I know with existing orange gear there are no thresholds, no limiters. Any mods can push them to the equivilant of any level. Fine by me to remove the whole augment slot thing. No crits, just make the orange piece and let the buyer or crafter enjoy.

 

If however they are coming out with level 50 oranges somehow being able to bypass level 15 oranges at the base level before modifications then yes that is compeltly counter to the goal of getting people to be able to wear what they like. That is IF they are doing this thing.

[Samborino]

There's been some shouting on this forum I've heard over the upcoming ideas for orange gear becoming more readily available, mostly through crafting.

 

Not only that I've heard that the greatest wailing and gnashing of teeth has been over the fact that the "epic loot" (raid gear, pvp gear, etc) Will itsel be considered orange gear. It's mods, armoring, barrels crystals, etc will be able to be removed and put onto other orange gear along with set bonuses.

 

For those carrying on cranky about this change, consdier that you're complaining in the wrong direction. These items must still be gained through the effort of raiding or pvp matches. Someone still has to put in that effort and then the additional effort or in game money spent on crafting or buying the orange gear they can put all these modules in.

If your complaint is about being able to see if someone is geared enough at a glance then perhaps what you should be requesting is a little 'i' icon or something that can be clicked over a selected target that will preform the same function as the Inspect option. Yes this will take more effort and time, but that small amount of time spent to absolutely inspect someone will benefit many other players at the same time, so we ask that you please give u a few moments and effort so the rest of us can enjoy character appearances while we also try to raid very hard for you.

 

Raiding or PVP, as you see it, is all about effort and strain. The effort of examining each member of your raid or pvp group is an additional strain. Shouldn't it prove if you check everyone how hard you work in your raid or pvp group?

 

For those who are in support of this kind of change, we need to see you more on the forums, giving good, thoughtful and above all curteous responses in support of this change. As Bioware/EA, like every other company, responds only to metrics we have to provide enough response data for them to move a change we like through to development.

 

tl;dr versyon:

You wanted a game that wasn't exactly like WoW, so stop shouting down every different than WoW change that comes along

 

The point is though, if they are going to do this, why dont they just make only mods drop from bosses. I think this whole design is silly. They should just keep it the way it was but actually design a reasonable amount of end game loot instead of being lazy.

 

Right now for end game PVE, if you count all the tier pieces as 1 set (they look pretty much the same but with diff stats) their are 4 sets in the game for each class, there is no unique loot drops , just loot that is a part of a set.

 

Those sets are energized xenotech, exotech, and then the tier pieces. That just seems lazy IMO. Not to mention commendation vendors give the same loot as HM Fp's, HM FP's give the same loot as normal and hard mode ops, 16 mans and 8 mans also drop the same loot. Why cant each of these above mentioned things have their own loot table.

 

And its silly for them to insist on going down the route of making epic gear like orange gear, like i said whats the point in even having it then? Why not just have the bosses drop mods (which i think would be even sillier but thats basically what they are doing anyways) Think of the new epic system like this, an epic item is now a lockbox with mods in it, or something like that. Its silly.

 

This whole loot system design is gonna get really messy =/

Edited February 28, 2012 by Samborino

[kedobanfey]

Why not just have the bosses drop mods

 

Not compeltly a bad idea, but good looking gear could drop as well. It may seem silly to you but there are a lot of people who would enjoy looking their own particular way instead of how raid gear defines how they must look.

 

Otherwise every raid become a formal dance, every PVP match becomes a buisness work day. C'mon guys, embrace casuall fridays

[Samborino]

This is the proposed system i think they should go with. They should keep epic drops the way they are, where set bonus's dont transfer etc, and add more of that gear so not everyone looks the same.

 

On top of that, for people who would like to use orange gear, they should have an armoring that drops off of each boss that has a tier set bonus. This system would make a hell of alot more sense in my mind, and it wouldnt give BW the go ahead to continue to be lazy with the epic drops in PVE in this game. If end game starts revolving around just pilfering mods out of items what need do they have to add loot tables to nightmare mode, or give 16 man raids their own loot, or give HM FP's loot that differs from normal mode operations. It doesnt it gives them an excuse to add just 1 or 2 new sets for each new content patch and thats it.

 

I dont want this game to be like wow in alot of ways, but i want to to be MMO like for its loot systems, they are basically making end game loot worthless and taking away alot of the fun of appearance progression.

 

 

I fully support the idea of orange items, and using them at high level, but I also really like having rare drops off bosses that arent part of sets, new epic items that have unique looks, non tier non set pieces that make your character look unique.

 

I really think they did the loot system backwards in this game, leveling up the loot system is very diverse, but then you get to the end game and your options are so limited. They really should have done it the other way around if they didnt have time to make both of them diverse.