Scoundrel Is a Joke

[Stilly]

Plenty of videos up of post nerf scoundrels tearing **** up. Maybe watch a few and figure out what exactly you are doing so wrong.

 

It is me or is a geared sawbones near impossible to kill? I don't see them to often but there are 2 I can think of on my server that have a VERY good rep as pvp healers.

[HBninjaX]

It is me or is a geared sawbones near impossible to kill? I don't see them to often but there are 2 I can think of on my server that have a VERY good rep as pvp healers.

 

I know that geared operative healers are freaking hard to take down, they effectively make great tanks because they can take so much abuse plus they have that laugh that feels like it's taunting you. "that's all you got?"

Edited February 28, 2012 by HBninjaX

[hulkweazel]

After playing a LOT of Huttball with this class I've finally figured out how to be somewhat effective. I can put up decent numbers but even still, I am almost certain the team I'm on would be better off with another class.

 

There are really only two options for Ops in Huttball:

 

- Try to pick off stragglers on the fringes. You won't help your team at all but at least you'll put up numbers.

 

- Stay on the top ledge of your side of the arena. Use this as a vantage point to either heal others or be able to get to the ball easier. Problem is, healing doesn't give you medals and you'll still be out of the action half the time - because you have limited mobility it still takes you forever to get to the action especially if it moves.

 

It's sad that the best I can seem to do in Huttball is "not totally useless". Either Huttball needs to be fixed or Ops need a gap closer. Or both would be preferred.

[SliggXx]

I agree they need a major buff. I'd prefer to do 200K Damage and 800K healing on average rather than this paltry 125K/650K

[fixit]

Finally did it, after 2 months or so of PvPin....I got over 500k heals! It was voidstar, 3/4 of the players were also healers (poor dps dudes /point/laugh), I was not targeted ONCE so I could free cast all game....every single ounce of energy was devoted to healing. 517k!

 

I know newb sorcs who can get 500k w/o even tryin, lawl.

 

Anyone sayin they are consitantly are getting over 500k healin on sawbones/medicine are a) using a PvE heal spec b) never ever targeted c) playing against scrubs with a premade d) lieing. I believe the latter is the case.

 

Good players all know to either lock me out and or blow me up first, not like I can prevent that very well and everyone knows that.

 

edit. when rated WZs come about, Ops healers no matter how good will not be desired at all. I expect BH/Trooper healers will be in the most demand since once geared: they are near impossible to kill, put two together + guard and they are invincible.

Edited February 28, 2012 by fixit

[zaltanus]

Healing Op here- totally needs a buff. I can only keep people up in my operations and flashpoints MOST of the time! Why not all the time? What the hell do you have against us Bioware?!?!?! OMGWTFBBQ /gquit /unsub

[andysdead]

What makes you think you're better geared than me? What makes you think I don't have high-end mmo pvp experience myself in the first place?

 

You can't get better geared than pvp/pve set mix, or champ/bm set mix (which is my case).

As I said, Mara takes skill to play. I own 99% of maras if played on my terms, your defensive with taking 99% less dmg won't save you, cause u're going to stand in root/slow all the duration, I'll make sure of that

 

Yes, watchman spec is harder to counter, still very manageable.

Anyway, I didn't say scoundrels need a damage buff. They need out of stealth capability to last a fight in melee cluster. (Lower CDs, better enegry management, mobility etc)

 

Hunting soloers is not a good gameplay, cause it's a team based game, right? Try soloing in voidstar, hrr hrr. Well you can, if u fight 2 rooms behind of the team ofc.

 

I think you missed my point, while simultaneously hinting at it. The point is, as you say, that it's not a 1v1 game. It's a team game. It doesn't matter if I can beat you 1v1.

 

As you said, you can beat me "if played on [your] terms" and I can beat you "if my cooldowns are up."

 

Between the two of us, it sounds like we're basically on the same level, gear-wise. It would be interesting to see who came out on top. :-p

[hulkweazel]

Healing Op here- totally needs a buff. I can only keep people up in my operations and flashpoints MOST of the time! Why not all the time? What the hell do you have against us Bioware?!?!?! OMGWTFBBQ /gquit /unsub

Yeah, because we're totally talking about PvE in a section that is clearly marked PvP. Please note the sarcasm.

[zaltanus]

Yeah, because we're totally talking about PvE in a section that is clearly marked PvP. Please note the sarcasm.

 

Noted. Ops are turrible in pvp too. /agree with op

[SliggXx]

I know newb sorcs who can get 500k w/o even tryin, lawl.

 

This I agree with.

 

Anyone sayin they are consitantly are getting over 500k healin on sawbones/medicine are a) using a PvE heal spec

 

Wrong. I am not even full Sawbones, I am a hybrid spec, 25/16/0

 

b) never ever targeted

 

Wrong again. I am constantly being targetted, constantly tanking at least one person. If it gets bad I can vanish and actually live due to Fight or Flight. Weird, I know.

 

 

c) playing against scrubs with a premade

 

Wrong. I average LESS healing with our premade because games are almost always faster.

 

d) lieing. I believe the latter is the case.

 

Wrong. I am well-known on my server and people often react positively to seeing me in their PUG because they know they actually will have someone that keeps them up. I am at work, but I can produce screenshots of many games above 600K healing later if you wish. I believe I have one of my 790K healing game, though that was as a pure sawbones spec.

 

Good players all know to either lock me out and or blow me up first, not like I can prevent that very well and everyone knows that.

 

I don't seem to have that problem. Your mileage may vary. Granted, I do actually die against good teams once or twice. Usually in a premade I just don't die. Ever.

 

edit. when rated WZs come about, Ops healers no matter how good will not be desired at all. I expect BH/Trooper healers will be in the most demand since once geared: they are near impossible to kill, put two together + guard and they are invincible.

 

Wrong. Scoundrels/Operatives will be middle-rung. Sages will be least desirable as they will insta drop against coordinated DPS.

 

Look, I want to be polite here, but please don't come on here and call me a liar simply because YOU can't achieve the same results. I have ZERO problem getting 500K in voidstar or huttball and am often above 400K in Alderaan. Guess what? I also tend to hover around 100K dmg added, as well.

 

This doesn't mean I believe they don't need some love. I am the exception to the rule, but please don't act as if your gaming experience can sub for mine.

Edited February 28, 2012 by SliggXx

[hulkweazel]

Wrong. Scoundrels/Operatives will be middle-rung. Sages will be least desirable as they will insta drop against coordinated DPS.

 

Look, I want to be polite here, but please don't come on here and call me a liar simply because YOU can't achieve the same results. I have ZERO problem getting 500K in voidstar or huttball and am often above 400K in Alderaan. Guess what? I also tend to hover around 100K dmg added, as well.

 

This doesn't mean I believe they don't need some love. I am the exception to the rule, but please don't act as if your gaming experience can sub for mine.

What are you trying to prove here? That you're an amazing player? Okay. Any experienced PvPer knows it's not about numbers and just saying what amazing numbers you get will only fuel the flame with posts like "OMG Ops are totally overpowered, I saw this one dude do such-and-such this one time".

 

The fact is, there are certain issues with Ops in PvP that has absolutely nothing to do with numbers being put up.

[SliggXx]

blah blah blah

 

If you want tips, I will be happy to help you over PMs. Seriously.

 

I think a lot of people just don't realize how the little things can be and how doing a few things just a bit differently can make a huge impact. honestly, if you spend more than 1/4 of your time looking at your health grid, there is no way you will put out that kind of performance.

[SliggXx]

What are you trying to prove here? That you're an amazing player? Okay. Any experienced PvPer knows it's not about numbers and just saying what amazing numbers you get will only fuel the flame with posts like "OMG Ops are totally overpowered, I saw this one dude do such-and-such this one time".

 

The fact is, there are certain issues with Ops in PvP that has absolutely nothing to do with numbers being put up.

 

My point is that the Title of this thread is misleading and complete hyperbole. Had it been called, "Scoundrels are a underpowered," or "Scoundrels need some work," I would be here in complete agreement. I hate hyperbole. It does nothing but serve as a detriment to any real discussion about game balance.

 

Scoundrels/Operatives DO NEED WORK, but this thread is giving the impression that the class is awful. Clearly it isn't. I freaking love the class.

[fixit]

Competition on that server must be pretty low. I have never ever seen a Ops/smug healer get the numbers you are talking about. But I am not omnipitant, so you never know right.

 

But I guess you are the best Ops in the whole world and everythings fine with our class!

 

Yes I am terrible, super bad, yada yada for not getting 500k every game like you do without even trying. You got me brah.

[Howbadisbad]

*Snip*

 

This doesn't mean I believe they don't need some love. I am the exception to the rule, but please don't act as if your gaming experience can sub for mine.

 

If you transitioned all the skill you have with your sawbones into a Sorc or a Merc you would be doing significantly better.

 

Class performance vs other classes at same skill/gear level in warzones is how pvp balance is currently determined in this game.

[Kholvan]

As a healing sorcerer i have:

-A never ending slow(Affliction specced)

-A long ranged slow(Force slow)

-An Aoe Knockback + root(Specced)

-An instant 8 second stun(breaks on damage)

-A long ranged four second stun(electrocute)

-A personal shield that can be applied to anyone with a 20% speed boost

-A 150% speed boost for three seconds(force speed)

-An ability to grapple friendly players(Extricate)

 

You don't have instant whirlwind as a healer. By the way, even if you did have it, whirlwind heals its victim. You don't have root on Overload as a healer. You probably don't have the bubble speed increase on any spec, since it costs 4 talent points to get, and is only useful for griefing scoundrels in 1v1.

 

Both classes can:

-Have a HoT spell(Scoundrel version is moderately more powerful)

 

Except that the sorcerer HoT has a 6 second cooldown, heals for less and doesn't stack - meaning they do no significant healing unless they are standing still, unlike Scoundrel/Operatives.

[SliggXx]

Competition on that server must be pretty low.

 

Wrong. Helm of Graush was one of the servers that PvP guilds flocked to on release. Having played on a couple of other servers (Swiftsure, Fatman) on a co-workers characters I would say it is definetely above average.

 

I have never ever seen a Ops/smug healer get the numbers you are talking about. But I am not omnipitant, so you never know right.

 

There are 3-4 on my server who do.

 

But I guess you are the best Ops in the whole world and everythings fine with our class!

 

Wrong. My words:

 

"This doesn't mean I believe they don't need some love. I am the exception to the rule"

 

"Had it been called, "Scoundrels are a underpowered," or "Scoundrels need some work," I would be here in complete agreement."

 

"Scoundrels/Operatives DO NEED WORK, but this thread is giving the impression that the class is awful. Clearly it isn't. I freaking love the class."

 

So, are you going to further this trand of ridiculous hyperbole and ignore my words?

 

Yes I am terrible, super bad, yada yada for not getting 500k every game like you do without even trying. You got me brah.

 

More ridiculous hyperbole. YOU said anyone claiming that they averaged 500K healing on a Scoundrel was probably a liar. I simply pointed out that your statement was false and offered help in how you could improve your game. I said nothing other than that it was attainable and refuted your claims to the contrary. I have said nothing at all denigrating your play. You are simply being defensive and turning this into an emotional argument rather than actually defending your words or refuting mine.

 

The offer still stands. I don't think you are a bad player, but if you can't see how anyone could average 500K healing on a Scoundrel there are certainly ways you could see improvement.

Edited February 28, 2012 by SliggXx

[SliggXx]

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SliggXx

*Snip*

This doesn't mean I believe they don't need some love.I am the exception to the rule, but please don't act as if your gaming experience can sub for mine.

If you transitioned all the skill you have with your sawbones into a Sorc or a Merc you would be doing significantly better.

 

Class performance vs other classes at same skill/gear level in warzones is how pvp balance is currently determined in this game.

 

Requoted with relevant bolded section.

[Stilly]

My point is that the Title of this thread is misleading and complete hyperbole. Had it been called, "Scoundrels are a underpowered," or "Scoundrels need some work," I would be here in complete agreement. I hate hyperbole. It does nothing but serve as a detriment to any real discussion about game balance.

 

Scoundrels/Operatives DO NEED WORK, but this thread is giving the impression that the class is awful. Clearly it isn't. I freaking love the class.

 

QFMFT

 

Speak it.

[Mongrul]

scoundrel is a joke.

 

Healing spec:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a single person who would rather have a scoundrel healer than a commando {for their survivability} or a sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

the weakest of the three specs.

 

Dps {burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

Dot:

Not worth it at all. Just not much to say here.

 

 

All three specs lack utility in pvp. Not to mention that scoundrels get so few medals during pvp compared to other classes.

 

the answer is not to nerf everything else - its to buff scoundrel!

^bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

 

healing spec: Who cares what other people want

dps: The only reason really? Are you sure?

Dot: Nice opinion bro

[AdmiralOnasi]

healing spec: Who cares what other people want

dps: The only reason really? Are you sure?

Dot: Nice opinion bro

 

He happens to be right on all three accounts.

 

Sawbones is widely regarded as the weakest healer (even by BioWare).

 

Dirty Fighting is a clunky mess of 10-20m ranged abilities with no way to gain Upper Hand other than a melee attack (Blaster Whip), meaning you're constantly forced to dance around your target in melee range like a mosquito to farm Upper Hands for Wounding Shots.

 

And Scrapper is now a wholly unremarkable shell of it's former self. There's no reason to bring the marginally higher burst of a Scrapper and sacrifice the better survivability, better sustained DPS, and utility of an Infiltration Shadow.

[aypolo]

He happens to be right on all three accounts.

 

Sawbones is widely regarded as the weakest healer (even by BioWare).

 

Dirty Fighting is a clunky mess of 10-20m ranged abilities with no way to gain Upper Hand other than a melee attack (Blaster Whip), meaning you're constantly forced to dance around your target in melee range like a mosquito to farm Upper Hands for Wounding Shots.

 

And Scrapper is now a wholly unremarkable shell of it's former self. There's no reason to bring the marginally higher burst of a Scrapper and sacrifice the better survivability, better sustained DPS, and utility of an Infiltration Shadow.

 

 

Exactly what I wanted originally to say, so I quoted you on the first post . Thank you , sorry my english lack enough to express self properly !

 

Also , guys ,

I UPDATED THE TITLE {Not thread title , can not be updated} TO "SCOUNDREL IS UNDERPOWERED". I was very angry when I wrote first post

[JediDuckling]

SCOUNDREL

 

IS

 

UNDERPOWERED

 

 

 

 

HEALING SPEC:

They are a filler healer, and if you go to the fleet there is not a SINGLE person who would rather have a Scoundrel healer than a Commando {for their survivability} or a Sage {for better heals and more/better (aoe) slows}

The weakest of the three specs.

 

DPS {Burst}:

This was nerfed, and was the only strong reason to play scoundrel/operative in the first place.

 

DoT:

Not much to say here, it's pretty weak and not worth speccing for pvp/pve {PLEASE NOTE: THIS TOPIC IS INTENDED FOR PVP BALANCE, NOT PVE. THAT'S WHY IT'S IN PVP SECTION.}

 

All three specs SERIOUSLY lack utility in PvP. Not to mention that Scoundrels get so few medals during PvP compared to other classes.

 

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO NERF EVERYTHING ELSE - ITS TO BUFF SCOUNDREL!

^Bioware, please read that over again and again. Slowly.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Update 2/28/12

FORMER TITLE: Scoundrel is a joke.

New Title: Scoundrel is Underpowered

 

the only joke i see here is you because you cant play the class does not mean its a joke.

 

they are still pretty OP

[fixit]

The offer still stands. I don't think you are a bad player, but if you can't see how anyone could average 500K healing on a Scoundrel there are certainly ways you could see improvement.

 

Will point out that when I broke my old record with 517k, I had 21k DMG done and ended match with 4 medals + got ZERO mvps votes. None.

 

But w/e, now I see why you get those sorts of numbers: you run a hybrid spec which has great regen. I use 31/3/7 build b/c I AM TARGETED FIRST ALWAYS and also have min TWO PLAYERS on me all game long for interrupts and stuns (or just frag me). Being a known healer does that, no one peels me...no one guards me....not one votes me MVP. They all go to the SORCS.

 

But w/e, I really don't need your advice and I will tell you why...

 

I am not renewing this * poor excuse for an MMO.

 

And with that, I bid you fair well.

[aypolo]

Will point out that when I broke my old record with 517k, I had 21k DMG done and ended match with 4 medals + got ZERO mvps votes. None.

 

But w/e, now I see why you get those sorts of numbers: you run a hybrid spec which has great regen. I use 31/3/7 build b/c I AM TARGETED FIRST ALWAYS and also have min TWO PLAYERS on me all game long for interrupts and stuns (or just frag me). Being a known healer does that, no one peels me...no one guards me....not one votes me MVP. They all go to the SORCS.

 

But w/e, I really don't need your advice and I will tell you why...

 

I am not renewing this * poor excuse for an MMO.

 

And with that, I bid you fair well.

 

quitting seems drastic but Iagree with the points made here