Darth_Solrac Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'm starting to think that ONLY Sith apprentices who kill their master (thereby becoming true Sith Lords) should be given that coveted & prestigious title. I know this is also totally at the discretion & will of the master tho. Two good examples are Sidious' apprentices. Darth Maul: Sidious chose to make him a Sith Lord too early I say. This is evidenced by his being killed by Obi Wan (still a Padawon officially then). Maul was grossly overconfident & not well versed enough in the force & Dark Side teaching & history it also seems. Darth Vader: Again, Sidious decided too early. As again, he was grossly cocky, & knew next to nothing of the Dark Side then. Again, Obi Wan is the foil & proof. The same argument can even be made for Darth Tyrannus I think. Sidious' discretion on this mater is actually.....horrendous I'm starting to see. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechavomit Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't think you should mix this with the Rule of Two. For you see, with the RoT the apprentice automatically becomes a Sith Lord, a Darth. He earns this title by proving worthy of becoming an apprentice to this master. I'm not sure when exactly Maul got this title, but I know he had to go through some serious **** as a kid. He earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I don't think you should mix this with the Rule of Two. For you see, with the RoT the apprentice automatically becomes a Sith Lord, a Darth. He earns this title by proving worthy of becoming an apprentice to this master. I'm not sure when exactly Maul got this title, but I know he had to go through some serious **** as a kid. He earned it. Always tho? I remember other apprentices to other Sith Lords (Ventress comes to mind) never automatically received Darth status. Also, Sidious put Maul through some grueling trial in a cave somewhere if I remember correctly. Lastly, an argument can be made for Vader, but I see Maul as being seriously unprepared for the power, responsibilities, enemies, etc. that come with that title. Edited February 26, 2012 by Darth_Solrac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechavomit Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Always tho? I remember other apprentices to other Sith Lords (Ventress comes to mind) never automatically received Darth status. Also, Sidious put Maul through some grueling trial in a cave somewhere if I remember correctly. Lastly, an argument can be made for Vader, but I see Maul as being seriously unprepared for the power, responsibilities, enemies, etc. that come with that title. Ventress was never intended as a Sith. In the Dark Rendezvous novel she begs Dooku to make her a Sith (by killing Sidious together), but he refuses. She was an assassin, a dark jedi, she couldn't become a Sith because there were already two of them - Dooku and Sid. It is rumored that Maul was just a tool. In any case, he wasn't a real Sith because at that time Sidious was still an apprentice of Plegueueueis (spelling?). Maul. of course, thought it was "for realz", but it wasn't. Edited February 26, 2012 by Mechavomit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Always tho? I remember other apprentices to other Sith Lords (Ventress comes to mind) never automatically received Darth status. Also, Sidious put Maul through some grueling trial in a cave somewhere if I remember correctly. Lastly, an argument can be made for Vader, but I see Maul as being seriously unprepared for the power, responsibilities, enemies, etc. that come with that title. Ventress, Grevious and Starkiller were not Sith Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ventress was never intended as a Sith. In the Dark Rendezvous novel she begs Dooku to make her a Sith (by killing Sidious together), but he refuses. She was an assassin, a dark jedi, she couldn't become a Sith because there were already two of them - Dooku and Sid. It is rumored that Maul was just a tool. In any case, he wasn't a real Sith because at that time Sidious was still an apprentice of Plegueueueis (spelling?). Maul. of course, thought it was "for realz", but it wasn't. Ventress never said anyhting about killing Sid. She was unaware of the RO2 if I'm correct. And Maul was a tool but he was still a Sith. After the Grand Plan was initiated I'd like to think the Ro2 didn't exist anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechavomit Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ventress never said anyhting about killing Sid. She was unaware of the RO2 if I'm correct. Not sure about the RO2, but in that novel she clearly states something along the lines of "Let's kill your master! Then I can become your apprentice, blah blah, Sith" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightrune Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Plegueueueis (spelling?). Just spell "plague" and add an "is." Edited February 26, 2012 by knightrune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellrochell Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 maul killed qui-gon... i think obi-wan just got lucky. He pretty much bested them both when fighting them at the same time. How can he not be worthy of sith lord?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 maul killed qui-gon... i think obi-wan just got lucky. He pretty much bested them both when fighting them at the same time. How can he not be worthy of sith lord?? Obi-Wan be a gambling man, he must do well at casinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Zorth_ Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 maul killed qui-gon... i think obi-wan just got lucky. He pretty much bested them both when fighting them at the same time. How can he not be worthy of sith lord?? But I agree, He's lucked out many times. Maul, Griveous, Anakin.. hmmm? He always took a huge gamble at the end of those fights. Or Obi-Wan was just a very skilled jedi, even as padawan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 But I agree, He's lucked out many times. Maul, Griveous, Anakin.. hmmm? He always took a huge gamble at the end of those fights. Or Obi-Wan was just a very skilled jedi, even as padawan? He was pretty much a knight when he fought against Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deags Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) He was pretty much a knight when he fought against Maul. Also qui gon jinn could of been master ranked if he didn't disobey the council. So basically Darth Maul kicked the crap out of 1 of master skill rank and 1 of knight skill rank and would of won the battle if he just finished the job... maybe if he had this in the background things would of gone differently Edited February 27, 2012 by deags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusaxavier Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Also qui gon jinn could of been master ranked if he didn't disobey the council. So basically Darth Maul kicked the crap out of 1 of master skill rank and 1 of knight skill rank and would of won the battle if he just finished the job... maybe if he had this in the background things would of gone differently I just (finally) watched TFM in 3D yesterday and it reminded me that Obi-Wan gives into his anger a little when fighting Maul, which may have given him the edge over Qui-Gon. And, in reading the Darth Plagueis novel, it mentions how Maul is obsessed with killing a Jedi Master to prove how great of a fighter he was. This would reinforce the theory that he did not take Obi-Wan, a mere Padawan (or at least as far as he knew), as a serious threat. If you notice, Maul's demeanor changed after killing Qui-Gon from angry to mocking. So, you add Obi-Wan's anger with Maul's lack of taking Obi-Wan seriously, and that is why Obi-Wan won the fight. It was circumstance, not luck or skill that won the fight. Edited February 27, 2012 by marcusaxavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolsErrand Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 If you read Shadow Hunter and Darth Plagueis, it goes into a bit more detail of the past and personality of Maul. He tended to become over confident when facing anyone but a jedi master (in Shadow Hunter he also kills a jedi master) and he tends to not take the fight seriously. In the Plagueis novel it's revealed that Plagueis had Sidious raise Maul to be an assassin, Sidious might have wanted more for Maul, but Maul got killed off before anything more could be done with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNEAKYSIX Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not to mention the failure of Darth Blair, who lead a fallen empire with his own progaganda, extened to regime change on the false premises of a planet capable of evil had weapons of mass destruction. Later opposed by his own sith house and gave up leadership to a lesser lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riotus Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Always tho? I remember other apprentices to other Sith Lords (Ventress comes to mind) never automatically received Darth status. Also, Sidious put Maul through some grueling trial in a cave somewhere if I remember correctly. Lastly, an argument can be made for Vader, but I see Maul as being seriously unprepared for the power, responsibilities, enemies, etc. that come with that title. Ventress was dooku's apprentice, who was sidious' apprentice. which is why she would not be a darth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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