Marauder vs. Juggernaut! Help me :<

[MadProfStein]

So, folks. I started as a bounty hunter. I asked for no advice, got my merc to level 32 and said "Well, this is stupid. I hate range.." Why? Well, because range are range for a reason. Usually involving something owning their face off once they are no longer at a range.

 

So, what did I do? I thought, hey, you know whats cool?! Lightsabres! So I rolled a inquisitor. Asked for no help, made the same mistake twice, and went sorcerer. Now, khem is an alright tank, so the "dying painfully" problem wasn't so much a problem anymore. But the "Press one button repeatedly to win" problem was still a problem. Got her to 33 and quit.

 

So, now I beseach you, forum go-ers. Save me form myself! I've decided to force myself to make the correct decision and make a warrior! Now all I have to decide which of these two amazing ACs I want! How do I do this, you ask? A pro and cons list and advice from you fine folk!

 

Juggernaut.

 

Pros:

 

Tanking!

 

Flexibility! ((The choice to be two different roles, possibly saving me from getting bored with one role down the line)).

 

Darth Vader is the best sith ever! ((And he was a juggernaut! Yaaay juggernauts!))

 

Being an unbreakable wall of force that never dies! ((Usually! Yay for heavy armor!))

 

 

Cons:

 

I've heard the DPS is crap and no one wants them in ops at 50. A problem since I'm a PvE player, not PvP.

 

Is one lightsabre really enough to express how much I want to stab you? I think not.

 

 

Marauder!

 

Pros:

 

Twice the sabres, twice the ownage!

 

Marauders get all the ladies. ((Science told me so))

 

The joy of owning everything in 1.24 seconds and then moving on to owning the next thing!

 

Cons:

 

I can only be dps :< What If I get bored? D:

 

Medium armor. Still good, but it could be better.

 

 

 

Help me, forums, you're my only hope ;<

[Juro_Khai]

This question has been asked to death; there are numerous threads on this already.

 

To give you a brief, simple answer: play whichever class you like better. They both put out similar dps, just in very different ways. They both add utility. One offers choices in how to do damage, one offers an alternate role.

 

Those who say Marauders >>> Juggernauts in DPS just don't know what they're talking about. I've seen their reasoning stem from things like, "well Marauders have 2 lightsabers so they MUST do more dps amirite??" and, "well Marauders can only dps so they must be better at it!!" It's never backed by hard numbers because hard numbers aren't easy to come by in a game that has no combat log. I can tell you honestly as a DPS Jugg who has cleared EV and KP on HM (take from that what you will) that Jugg DPS is totally legit. The best evidence that I can provide is during the Council fight in EV. I will drop my mob within a couple seconds of a Marauder (sometimes him first, sometimes me first). It'll be nice when we can lay this DPS myth about Juggs sucking to rest.

 

Marauders offer short duration buffs that increase raid DPS and Juggs offer a stackable armor debuff to mobs/bosses that increase raid DPS, so it's a wash. Play whichever style will suit you better.

[Zunayson]

Playing a sentinel (Marauder mirror) to level 27, planning out each and every one of my keybinds and studying each move (Nerd powah!), I can tell you the sentinel's utility is nearly endless. I will tell you your misconceptions

 

First of all, offhands are only 30% the accuracy and 30% the damage of mainhand. So it's 130% damage. Usually your offhand misses. It's only there for looks. And because your abilities force you to.

 

It's not 1.24 seconds, it's actually 1.5 because you can only move on to the next after the GCD ends.

 

Jugg's heavy armor is only like 5% or 7% more mitigation. Not really tank-y even if you spec DPS (They should be more tanky if their DPS is allegedly worse).

 

Anyways. Sentinel has moar utility, and can be invincible except 1% of damage (Fact.) for 5 seconds every 1minute and 30 seconds!! That's a small cooldown for such an awesome move! Undying Rage: Spends half current hp to grant 99% damage reduction for 5 seconds. Good for when you're REALLY low on hp. And there are easy ways of gathering 36% of HP in about 6 seconds (6% of hp every second) pretty easily as ANNIHILATION SPEC (The best one ;D).

 

You not only use Rage, but Fury. When you spend Rage, you get Fury (Stacks up to 30 times, you must spend at least one rage every minute, or else it goes away). At 30 stacks, you can use Berserk, Predation, or this last one. Berserk depends on your stance: Shi Cho (Rage spec): Vicious Slash costs no focus and hits another nearby enemy (Note that it will give you one rage if you spec'd into it refunding one rage, essentially making it normally cost 2 rage). Juyo (Annihilation spec [The best one ;DD]): Increases internal critical chance by 100%, and causes them to restore 1% of total hp (Combined with the Annihilation's 2% per critical, this will give you 3% hp per crit. It gives you 6 stacks of Berserk, so that's 18% hp restored). Use this when all your DoTs are stacked, and since they add together, the crit will multiplying AFTER they add, making your crits "Hit like a TRAIN!" ( -JT33gaming, funniest Sent around:

). The other once sucks because it's Carnage, and Carnage has: 1. Less Sustained damage, and 2. You have to be in range all the time. For Annihilation, you only have to be in range to lay down da dots. Then they start dying.

 

Use Fury on Predation to increase movement speed by 50% AND melee/ranged defense by 10% for 10 seconds. Good for Huttball when used in combination with a sorc's speed over acid, or capping a turret. Affects the whole party/ops group.

 

Use it on this last one (5 min cooldown, the others have 2 second cooldowns (same as stance changing, so essentially no cooldown) to increase healing and damage by 15% for 10 seconds!!

 

This other thing that gives you a full 30 Fury at a 3 minute cooldown. Use this to make the health regen from critical hits 36% instead of just 18%.

 

Force Camo to increase movement speed by 30% and to make you invisible (Both effects last for 4 seconds). Only at a 45 second cooldown!. In Rage (The second-worst spec, Carnage is the badderest ), Camo will also remove all movement-impairing effects.

 

So yeah. Sorry for such a long-winded post, but I'm trying to recruit you for the best (But hard to play) class.

[MadProfStein]

Two people with opinions opposing eachother xD Not the easiest decision ever yet, but you both did make excellent points

[Juro_Khai]

I wouldn't call these opposing posts; all he did was explain how Marauders work. At no point did he say that Marauders are objectively better than DPS Juggernauts, although he certainly seemed to think they're better stylistically. That's the point I was trying to make. Go with which you think is better stylistically because that's where the rubber meets the road. Both classes will do within 5% DPS of each other.

 

As far as he's saying Marauders have way better utility than Juggernauts, that's a bit of a hyperbole. Here are some things Juggs can do:

 

-AoE snare with no cooldown

-Intercede (One of the best PvP abilities IMO, and also very useful in certain PVE situations)

-A 30-yard saber throw that builds 3 Rage

-AoE and single-target taunts (Again, useful applications in both PvE and PvP)

-The ability to switch into a stance on the fly that significantly reduces damage for as long as it's active

-Instantly gain 6 Rage without incurring global cooldown every 60 seconds

-FORCE PUSH!!

-Most importantly for this discussion, they can reduce a target's armor value for the entire duration of a fight, providing a sustained increase in raid dps.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Juro_Khai

[TKMaster]

In my experiance my Mara had to keep Quinn by his side 100% of the time to make sure i didnt die. I never got used to the multitude of abilities maras have. And medium armor looks like ****.

 

I absolutly love my new Jugg, i can survive against groups of mobs solo. I love tanking in this game, never liked it in any other MMO. I can finally use my apprentice rather than being tied to Quinn, and the fight at the end of the class storyline was so much easier. And heavy armor looks great.

 

It pained me to do it but i just deleted my mara (1st character ever) as soon as i got jugg to 50.

[phga]

I wouldn't call these opposing posts; all he did was explain how Marauders work. At no point did he say that Marauders are objectively better than DPS Juggernauts, although he certainly seemed to think they're better stylistically. That's the point I was trying to make. Go with which you think is better stylistically because that's where the rubber meets the road. Both classes will do within 5% DPS of each other.

 

As far as he's saying Marauders have way better utility than Juggernauts, that's a bit of a hyperbole. Here are some things Juggs can do:

 

-AoE snare with no cooldown

-Intercede (One of the best PvP abilities IMO, and also very useful in certain PVE situations)

-A 30-yard saber throw that builds 3 Rage

-AoE and single-target taunts (Again, useful applications in both PvE and PvP)

-The ability to switch into a stance on the fly that significantly reduces damage for as long as it's active

-Instantly gain 6 Rage without incurring global cooldown every 60 seconds

-FORCE PUSH!!

-Most importantly for this discussion, they can reduce a target's armor value for the entire duration of a fight, providing a sustained increase in raid dps.

 

Everything that was said above PLUS a couple more things to help you decide: Darth Vader, Darth Malgus, Darth Sion, Darth Malak (i.e. single saber is for pro's )

 

P.S.: Play Jugg!!!!

Edited February 26, 2012 by phga

[Wolfcrux]

I'd say play juggernaut. It's a helluva lot of fun.

That being said, I've played a guardian but switched to marauder, and loving it.

 

Also, marauder dps is far superior if you ask me.

[FluxWing]

Everything that was said above PLUS a couple more things to help you decide: Darth Vader, Darth Malgus, Darth Sion, Darth Malak (i.e. single saber is for pro's )

 

Looks like reasons not to play a Jugg tbh. Who likes the concept of any of those characters? Club Cyborg. Slow and clunky is what they all have in common.

 

As a republic player I can tell you from an opponent's point of view. The only time you get killed by a Juggernaught in PvP is when they force choke you while some other imperial, of any other class, does damage.

 

Juggs doing any damage at all is more of a myth.

Juggs mostly jump around and annoy people, slowing and pushing players around.

 

Annihilation Marauders are imho the most feared AC+spec in the game. And I find it hard to believe that their damage is on par with any other spec in the game atm, it is waaay higher.

 

 

And as for becomming bored of "only" dpsing. Well tanking is much the same, with less noticable progress.

 

With a DPS char, you compete with yourself for higher and higher numbers every fight, every new gear upgrade.

With a Tank, you take less damage, so the healers have to play less intense, not much else changes. The boss dies the same, and your DPS hardly changes.

[Elyx]

Looks like reasons not to play a Jugg tbh. Who likes the concept of any of those characters? Club Cyborg. Slow and clunky is what they all have in common.

 

As a republic player I can tell you from an opponent's point of view. The only time you get killed by a Juggernaught in PvP is when they force choke you while some other imperial, of any other class, does damage.

 

Juggs doing any damage at all is more of a myth.

Juggs mostly jump around and annoy people, slowing and pushing players around.

 

Annihilation Marauders are imho the most feared AC+spec in the game. And I find it hard to believe that their damage is on par with any other spec in the game atm, it is waaay higher.

 

 

And as for becomming bored of "only" dpsing. Well tanking is much the same, with less noticable progress.

 

With a DPS char, you compete with yourself for higher and higher numbers every fight, every new gear upgrade.

With a Tank, you take less damage, so the healers have to play less intense, not much else changes. The boss dies the same, and your DPS hardly changes.

 

I agree with your last few paragraphs. tomayato vs tomaato. but the rest of your post is most likely based on 2 things: PvP only, and immortal spec, which is only ONE of 3 specs they have. pretty narrow viewpoint if you ask me.

 

Now, I could care less about PvP, so your first point is moot. Even if this thread was Pvp oriented, there are many ways to approach PvP, and I've seen successful Jugg's as much as unsucessful ones.

 

second point was already proven wrong by just about every Jugg who has DPS'ed effectively at game cap. I think you need to look a bit deeper at the class before spamming thoughts like those.

 

now...the class is much harder to get results from then other classes, so I can see a medicore player having issues with it. or a lazy player who doesn't want to have to push themselves (this isn't a bad thing!)

 

To the OP: any comments you hear about DPS from a PvE perspective that say juggs are bad are ignorant at best. real experience with a decent jugg player will prove that wrong very quickley. Pick the one you enjoy. I play both, enjoy both...but if i had to make a choice, I'd take Jugg. and this wasn't my first decision. In all actuality, i wasn't attracted to the single blade initially. But after getting used to the skillsets, I love it. Especially the animations...feel very heavy hitting and powerful.

 

My Maurader feels flashy...lots of fast movement. the Jugg feels like he's pounding with every hit. if your going to play Pvp i can't recommend anything but what I've read from both sides with experienced players. Jugg's guard well and support their team well and can be a serous irritant to the other team. Mauraders are unmatched in their burst, and are pretty much tops on 1v1 atm.

 

but if your not into PvP, then that flies out the window. even if your considering PvP, keep this in mind: Both classes take allot of work to get those results. you can't just pick up a maurader and press buttons and see top damage. the people who think that are usually the ones that come back to the forums whining about how juggs/mara's are broke. which their not.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Elyx

[Celadore]

One awesomething about being a tank over being dps as a sabre user: you are the one who is visually 'dueling' that enemy sabre user. The dps players are just taking swings at them but they aren't in the duel like you. The tank is the one getting to do the blocks and whatnot as if they were in the movies.

 

This is a aesthetic thing of course but come on, aesthetics is just as important as statistics!Why be kick arse if you can't look kick arse at the same time. It's why Neo never wore a singlet, mullet and footy shorts in his fights.

 

ps: If you can fight with one sabre, while the other guy needs two... aren't *you* the true duelist?

Edited February 26, 2012 by Celadore

[phga]

I should've said I was speaking primarily on an aesthetic/PvE/sheer awesomeness point of view

 

Also,

 

One awesomething about being a tank over being dps as a sabre user: you are the one who is visually 'dueling' that enemy sabre user. The dps players are just taking swings at them but they aren't in the duel like you. The tank is the one getting to do the blocks and whatnot as if they were in the movies.

 

This is a aesthetic thing of course but come on, aesthetics is just as important as statistics!Why be kick arse if you can't look kick arse at the same time. It's why Neo never wore a singlet, mullet and footy shorts in his fights.

 

ps: If you can fight with one sabre, while the other guy needs two... aren't *you* the true duelist?

 

^ This

Edited February 26, 2012 by phga

[MadProfStein]

Going with jugg. The only thing that was making me hesitant was I heard jugg dps was all crap, but I've heard enough in this thread to change my mind, thank you for all the input.

[muradi]

tp://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=312166

 

Maybe because it's never and/or I like solo game more (despite having my own guild of 12 with 6 healers in it), but I've been enjoying the sent a lot more. I pull of crazy sh*t with it and it looks stupid OP but it does actually take a lot of things done in the right order and at the right time. U can pro a Focus guardian in 2 weeks. An anni sent will take a month to reach your max potential with the class - and maybe it's limitless who knows, so much potential in that class, so hard to execute but so rewarding.

[FalcoLombardi]

So, folks. I started as a bounty hunter. I asked for no advice, got my merc to level 32 and said "Well, this is stupid. I hate range.." Why? Well, because range are range for a reason. Usually involving something owning their face off once they are no longer at a range.

 

So, what did I do? I thought, hey, you know whats cool?! Lightsabres! So I rolled a inquisitor. Asked for no help, made the same mistake twice, and went sorcerer. Now, khem is an alright tank, so the "dying painfully" problem wasn't so much a problem anymore. But the "Press one button repeatedly to win" problem was still a problem. Got her to 33 and quit.

 

So, now I beseach you, forum go-ers. Save me form myself! I've decided to force myself to make the correct decision and make a warrior! Now all I have to decide which of these two amazing ACs I want! How do I do this, you ask? A pro and cons list and advice from you fine folk!

 

Juggernaut.

 

Pros:

 

Tanking!

 

Flexibility! ((The choice to be two different roles, possibly saving me from getting bored with one role down the line)).

 

Darth Vader is the best sith ever! ((And he was a juggernaut! Yaaay juggernauts!))

 

Being an unbreakable wall of force that never dies! ((Usually! Yay for heavy armor!))

 

 

Cons:

 

I've heard the DPS is crap and no one wants them in ops at 50. A problem since I'm a PvE player, not PvP.

 

Is one lightsabre really enough to express how much I want to stab you? I think not.

 

 

Marauder!

 

Pros:

 

Twice the sabres, twice the ownage!

 

Marauders get all the ladies. ((Science told me so))

 

The joy of owning everything in 1.24 seconds and then moving on to owning the next thing!

 

Cons:

 

I can only be dps :< What If I get bored? D:

 

Medium armor. Still good, but it could be better.

 

Help me, forums, you're my only hope ;<

 

 

Juggernaut's DPS is supposed to be insane actually. Especially if you go into the Focus tree, and really boost Smashes damage. I say it really depends on the look you like better. There are some orange armors that look lighter if you're into that. Or if you prefer 2 sabers, get that. Up to you really

[MissBegotten]

Not sure about tank spec, but as a dps warrior you really need to know your stuff. During some fights, your fingers bleed by pushing so many buttons keeping EVERYTHING on cd, or you will die... miserably.

 

I die all the time to certain mob types. silver kitties on Voss rip your medium armor to shreds. Don't get tangled with 2 silvers, since you'll probably get wrecked in record time.

 

I'm sure it might be diff if you have a couple additional levels higher than the mobs, but I'm within 1 level of the mobs I'm speaking of.

 

Again, your defensive abilities are there to use. Most cds are short term and by the time you're ready for the next mob, they'll be reset.