rweiowjerwei Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) I'm asking because as I approach 50 I have began to consider what sort of endgame specs and such that I am going to run. I am of course, powertech, with the advanced prototype as my specialization. When dual spec comes out, I will have most likely a tank spec, but for the time being I am either going AP or Pyrotech. I verymuch enjoy the playstyle of AP and think that it should be fun for PVE content, but I keep hearing that Pyro is better... I ask this while already knowing the probable answer, but is Pyro really that much better than AP? Edited February 25, 2012 by rweiowjerwei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Go pyrotech... In the long run you will find its the absolute best if you want to dps. AP is like our very own leper dog. Does noticeable lower damge. Requires you to absolutely stay in melee range. The survivability and slight mobility are quite fun BUT the fact you need to use Flamethrower discards the superior mobility. As pyro tho, you get Awesome burst, Awesome sustained dps, GREAT survival (Its half range), and awesome 1v1 skillz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat-ster Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Go pyrotech... In the long run you will find its the absolute best if you want to dps. AP is like our very own leper dog. Does noticeable lower damge. Requires you to absolutely stay in melee range. The survivability and slight mobility are quite fun BUT the fact you need to use Flamethrower discards the superior mobility. As pyro tho, you get Awesome burst, Awesome sustained dps, GREAT survival (Its half range), and awesome 1v1 skillz. Have to use flame thrower - really... I just use Incend, spam flame burst and enjoy the flames of death...! I very rarely have to worry about heat. The trick is to keep at the correct distance about 8m and run through with Ret Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Have to use flame thrower - really... I just use Incend, spam flame burst and enjoy the flames of death...! I very rarely have to worry about heat. The trick is to keep at the correct distance about 8m and run through with Ret Blade. 1st Thats a hybrid spec, 2nd You could do much more dmg going deep pyro. Point taken tho, if you can't handle the heat stay were you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyyri Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) 2nd You could do much more dmg going deep pyro. Just a small note: PvP is not all about DMG and big numbers, its all about controlling your opponent. Counter everything enemy tosses at you and suddenly all their heavy-hittings skills becomes useless, while i eat them alive with my "low" dmg. Good example about controlling is Mage/Rogue combo in WoW, why those two worked so well together? well both had superior control and if you mix them together it becomes unstoppable duo. Edited February 28, 2012 by Valkyyri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Just a small note: PvP is not all about DMG and big numbers, its all about controlling your opponent. Counter everything enemy tosses at you and suddenly all their heavy-hittings skills becomes useless, while i eat them alive with my "low" dmg. Good example about controlling is Mage/Rogue combo in WoW, why those two worked so well together? well both had superior control and if you mix them together it becomes unstoppable duo. While you are basically right about pvp being more about control, the simple truth is that AP does not actually provide much more control than a deep Pyro spec. I've played around a lot as AP, and while HO is very nice for Huttball and Voidstar bridges, it doesn't really provide any gamechanging utility outside of trolling sorcs/mercs. After playing without it for a while, you come to realize that it doesn't bring anything to the table that can't be accomplished w/ a little positional awareness (ie: watch where you're standing, and you won't get knocked off nearly as much). In fact, the only real gamechanger in the entire tree is the 6 second interrupt cooldown which comes in very nice for controlling healers and mercs, but this is only 12 points in and can easily be taken in a deep Pyro build if so inclined (I'm running a 2/12/26 spec that takes this right now). I can assure you that AP is absolutely nowhere approaching the control of either a mage OR rogue, and actually feels like you have LESS control than a competing Pyro build because of the lack of snare on your main attack, or any sort of meaningful on-demand burst. 15% movement speed is meaningless in actual pvp, and while HO can be handy for the snare-break, competent opponents will stun or mez you when they see the animation. The giant yellow glowing gear that appears at your feet practically begs people to do this. I honestly found AP more effective when played as a hybrid (0/21/18+2), but lacks the damage of deep pyro spec, and ultimately I found that to be a real detriment. RB is crap damage, but is nice when stacked w/ CGC and IM dots. Rail Shots would hit routinely for about 1.5k~ less damage as a hybrid when compared to deep Pyro, while Flame bursts remained around the same damage-wise. But stacking IM+RB is expensive, and RB's damage isn't nearly as buffed as our flames. I've played w/ TD builds also, and arguably, being able to reliably blow someone up pretty much whenever you feel like it can easily cancel out the benefit of the Quell cd, or the "mobility" of AP, as a lot of that utility simply becomes unecessary in practice. It boils down to either beating an opponent with a lot of finesse, or just shooting him and watching him die. I still use the Quell cd, because I enjoy the ability to harass heals and grapple enemy ball carriers more in Huttball, but I can definitely see that the traditional 4/6/31 can accomplish the same goals w/ ease. Really, all you have to do is sink 12 in for the Quell cd and pick up the utility in the lower tree and you now have all of the "control" of AP, along w/ the benefits of either of the much better-designed ST or Pyro trees. I really want to love AP, but it needs a redesign badly; right now, it's simply better suited as a support tree to the other two. Sure, you can accomplish plenty as AP. You can just accomplish more as either of the other specs, and more efficiently, and that is the whole problem. Edited February 28, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdurus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I'm asking because as I approach 50 I have began to consider what sort of endgame specs and such that I am going to run. I am of course, powertech, with the advanced prototype as my specialization. When dual spec comes out, I will have most likely a tank spec, but for the time being I am either going AP or Pyrotech. I verymuch enjoy the playstyle of AP and think that it should be fun for PVE content, but I keep hearing that Pyro is better... I ask this while already knowing the probable answer, but is Pyro really that much better than AP? I leveled as Pyrotech up to 40 and then went AP the rest of the way and I have to say that I do enjoy playing as AP a lot. Now that I'm 50 and have some gear, I find that AP does damage more consistently and Pyrotech does more burst damage. Pyrotech relies pretty heavily on having Rail Shot procs and there are just times when you're just unlucky and can't get the procs whereas AP still continues to deal the same amount of damage, proc or not. As a disclaimer, I don't want to give you misinformation, it's just from my personal experiences and the personal numbers that I see in PvE. I don't see any huge difference in numbers for the most part but you do have to stay relatively close in melee as AP. I raided as an assassin so I'm used to the melee range, in fact, because Powertechs have Flame Burst, it's actually significantly easier on me now that I've an additional 6m, although Rocket Punch and Retractable Blade is still 4m but it's not as bad. Edited February 28, 2012 by Murdurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmaista Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 AP is really bad, im experienced in pvp and i dont understand. Anyone capable of pinpointing how AP is better at anything compared to pyro? The hitman talent is great, but interrupts arent good in swtor, they can just use another ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapex Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) AP is really bad, im experienced in pvp and i dont understand. Anyone capable of pinpointing how AP is better at anything compared to pyro? The hitman talent is great, but interrupts arent good in swtor, they can just use another ability. That's the problem. You are saying it's really bad, but that's in comparison to PyroTech which is borderline broken (have you seen the damage its been putting out in WZs?). AP on its own is fine but needs a few tweaks to be even better (some survivability and damage boosts). Edited February 29, 2012 by Mapex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murdurus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 AP is really bad, im experienced in pvp and i dont understand. Anyone capable of pinpointing how AP is better at anything compared to pyro? The hitman talent is great, but interrupts arent good in swtor, they can just use another ability. The problem is that you're only looking at it from a PvP perspective. Based from what I can tell, the OP is talking about PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Make Flamethrower usable on the move as deep AP and it's not so bad imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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