1.1.5 - death of rarity and achievements?!

[Divona]

Syylara hit the nail on the head, with this post.

 

 

Yup, i actually also see what those "achivers" trying to pull off on forum. But im confident Bioware has made up their mind and want to bring community what should have been from day one, but didnt make it to live. Patch notes says clearly one line about why they will do it, but most "achivers" ignoring it completely - talkin about crystals here.

[-Fritz-]

My guild downed world bosses about 20 times to get specific magenta crystals schematics. It was a huge achievement engaging guild multiple times on raids always requiring our artificer to come online when we groupped and it took few weeks to get it.

 

 

to me this doesnt sound like an achievement, it sounds like a job.

 

also this is a video game i am paying to play, so you will not get much sympathy from me when you whine over your pixels.

 

 

 

sorry, to me this is just borderline insanity.

 

there are a million things in life to achieve and worry about.

 

....yet here you are worried about some crystals in a video game and wanting people to have run some dungeon ridiculous amounts of times to get an imaginary item...

 

yeah, thats freaking insane.

[LucisAbyssus]

Understandable BUT I'm not sure it's wise to subject "everyone" to the needs of...well, how many? What percentage? I doubt it's the majority anyway.

 

Think again.

 

Just because you don't care about balanced progression because you've been spending your time in SWG for 7 years doesn't mean the majority of the community doesn't care about balanced progression.

[DieAlteHexe]

Think again.

 

Just because you don't care about balanced progression because you've been spending your time in SWG for 7 years doesn't mean the majority of the community doesn't care about balanced progression.

 

Heh, man, could you put any more (incorrect) assumptions in one paragraph?

 

1. I have never played SWG. Had no interest. Have played many other MMOs from UO, through EQ etc.

 

2. My thoughts on "balanced progression" haven't been expressed in this thread.

 

3. I've given this a lot of thought over the years and seen how the tide has turned from "über elite" focus to "hey, it's a game, let's all have fun (and we are NOT all the same so that little word, "fun", has varying definitions which smart gaming companies know and cater to).

 

4. You try to speak for an entire community. Have the intestinal fortitude to speak for yourself and let others speak for themselves. You end up looking less the prat that way.

[NoxiousAlby]

Think again.

 

Just because you don't care about balanced progression because you've been spending your time in SWG for 7 years doesn't mean the majority of the community doesn't care about balanced progression.

 

"majority of the community"

I hope to goodness you arent refering to raiders? Because in the scheme of things you dont even come close.

 

Character progression > balanced progression for without character progression not even solo or casual players will play this game & then raiders will be in a bit of trouble. So far only solo players have no character progression at 50, and thats why I cancelled my sub till it's fixed.

Edited February 26, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[LucisAbyssus]

Heh, man, could you put any more (incorrect) assumptions in one paragraph?

 

1. I have never played SWG. Had no interest. Have played many other MMOs from UO, through EQ etc.

 

2. My thoughts on "balanced progression" haven't been expressed in this thread.

 

3. I've given this a lot of thought over the years and seen how the tide has turned from "über elite" focus to "hey, it's a game, let's all have fun (and we are NOT all the same so that little word, "fun", has varying definitions which smart gaming companies know and cater to).

 

4. You try to speak for an entire community. Have the intestinal fortitude to speak for yourself and let others speak for themselves. You end up looking less the prat that way.

 

1. Then you have less of a reason to whine.

 

2. I agree. More like ramblings on what this game shouldn't be through your "insight".

 

3. There's a difference between having fun and everyone having everything in the game handed to them on a silver platter. Games like that do not work. They crash and burn.

 

4.

 

Understandable BUT I'm not sure it's wise to subject "everyone" to the needs of...well, how many? What percentage? I doubt it's the majority anyway.

 

Pot, meet kettle.

[LucisAbyssus]

"majority of the community"

I hope to goodness you arent refering to raiders? Because in the scheme of things you dont even come close.

 

Character rpogression > balanced progression for without character progression not even solo or casual players will play this game & then raiders will be in a bit of trouble. So far only solo players have no character progression at 50, and thats why I cancelled my sub till it's fixed.

 

I'm referring to anyone who earns something in this game they thought had worth/meaning and then has it cheapened dramatically so that everyone in the entire game can get it for 10 credits a pop.

 

If we are going to vendor everything why have raids? Why have pvp? Why not just create Sims: Star Wars? Why, I ask? Because this is a themepark MMO.

[DieAlteHexe]

1. Then you have less of a reason to whine.

 

2. I agree. More like ramblings on what this game shouldn't be through your "insight".

 

3. There's a difference between having fun and everyone having everything in the game handed to them on a silver platter. Games like that do not work. They crash and burn.

 

4.

 

 

 

Pot, meet kettle.

 

1. I'm not whining. Read my posts.

 

2. Snark doesn't deserve a response. Be civil, I'm happy to discuss this with you.

 

3. I'm not asking for ANYTHING to be handed to me in this or any other game. Not sure where you got that idea.

 

4. That was what is called a supposition. Notice keywords like "doubt", leaving open room for factual counter discussion.

 

Look, if all you want to do is make snide comments, carry on, but I'll be passing on that. If you want to really discuss the issue...I'm game.

 

Your choice.

Edited February 26, 2012 by DieAlteHexe
wrong word!

[AKfourtyseven]

You say.. What, that every mmo randomly gives away all the items for almost no cost?

That doesn't make any sense, I thought that MMOs were all about gearing and achieving stuff. Not giving it away just to show-off.

 

Then you havent played enough MMOs.

 

All MMOs will give away what was once hard to achieve for little effort as they move to the next cycle of achievements or just because a certain amount of time has elapsed.

 

You need to learn fast not to become attached to things in a MMO or actually invest any serious sense of accomplishment and self worth to your character. It will be taken away or changed in an instant. Did you have fun? If so cool and keep it moving. If you arent having fun? Dont do it, because it wont be worth it in the end.

[LucisAbyssus]

1. I'm not whining. Read my posts.

 

2. Snark doesn't deserve a response. Be civil, I'm happy to discuss this with you.

 

3. I'm not asking for ANYTHING to be handed to me in this or any other game. Not sure where you got that idea.

 

4. That was what is called a question. Notice keywords like "doubt", leaving open room for factual counter discussion.

 

Look, if all you want to do is make snide comments, carry on, but I'll be passing on that. If you want to really discuss the issue...I'm game.

 

Your choice.

 

1. Have read them. Seems like whining to me.

 

2. Two sided coin. You receive nothing which you do not give.

 

3. Implied through your posts/agreements I have read.

 

4. Implied through that statement that you believe the majority want everything handed to them/no progression. The eyes of the white tower are not blind.

[LucisAbyssus]

Then you havent played enough MMOs.

 

All MMOs will give away what was once hard to achieve for little effort as they move to the next cycle of achievements or just because a certain amount of time has elapsed.

 

You need to learn fast not to become attached to things in a MMO or actually invest any serious sense of accomplishment and self worth to your character. It will be taken away or changed in an instant. Did you have fun? If so cool and keep it moving. If you arent having fun? Dont do it, because it wont be worth it in the end.

 

Actually I've not seen MMO's vendor items after two and a half months has passed for their game, I think you just put this:

 

or just because a certain amount of time has elapsed.

 

As damage control.

 

They do however begin to vendor the items once a new patch comes. However, vending items usually tends to still cost a certain amount of tokens you earn.

[Mineria]

Understandable BUT I'm not sure it's wise to subject "everyone" to the needs of...well, how many? What percentage? I doubt it's the majority anyway.

Why do you point at percentage and majority?

If you are important... they aren't?

How far do you think a modern mmorpg can go without raids and personal progression?

And sorry to disappoint you, but a carrot is part of just that.

I can't count on two hands how many times people didn't want to do instances in other games because they didn't get anything from them making it worth their time.

Which kinda annoyed me, cause I just wanted to see the darn content.

Ever tried that?

 

Heh, man, could you put any more (incorrect) assumptions in one paragraph?

 

1. I have never played SWG. Had no interest. Have played many other MMOs from UO, through EQ etc.

 

2. My thoughts on "balanced progression" haven't been expressed in this thread.

 

3. I've given this a lot of thought over the years and seen how the tide has turned from "über elite" focus to "hey, it's a game, let's all have fun (and we are NOT all the same so that little word, "fun", has varying definitions which smart gaming companies know and cater to).

 

4. You try to speak for an entire community. Have the intestinal fortitude to speak for yourself and let others speak for themselves. You end up looking less the prat that way.

Exactly what I marked with bold characters is what I try to point out.

We are NOT all the same, so we do NOT play the same content and therefor should we NOT get EXACT the same either.

Is that hard to understand?

It can be differences in items, titles or other things that part between it, doesn't matter really.

It just needs to ensure that everyone get's their piece of the cake,

Don't tell me that you can not have fun playing if player X gets something a bit different from what you get, as long as it doesn't hinder your progression you shouldn't have any problem.

I must say, the more I look at it, the more I like the choices another company has made for their upcoming mmo, since it seems to take pretty good care of EVERYONE from scratch.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Mineria

[Sky_walkerPL]

As someone said - I want good video game, an MMORPG, not facebook in 3D with avatar.

Some of you guys look for something else than TOR. It's called Another Life or The Sims Online or My Little Pony Friendship club. These games also have some stories and allow you to customize your persona and feel as self-cool as you want.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[LucisAbyssus]

Exactly what I marked with bold characters is what I try to point out.

We are NOT all the same, so we do NOT play the same content and therefor should we NOT get EXACT the same either.

Is that hard to understand?

It can be differences in items, titles or other things that part between it, doesn't matter really.

It just needs to ensure that everyone get's their piece of the cake,

Don't tell me that you can not have fun playing if player X gets something a bit different from what you get, as long as it doesn't hinder your progression you shouldn't have any problem.

I must say, the more I look at it, the more I like the choices another company has made for their upcoming mmo, since it seems to take pretty good care of EVERYONE from scratch.

 

They take care of those types of people in this game too. It's called Social Clothing.

 

As long as SW:TOR vendors their old raid content with tokens you have to earn, BY RAIDING, and any other content to vendor similarly, there shouldn't be a problem. Raiders won't raid, still won't get the gear they don't need TO RAID.

 

This is a Themepark MMO. Lightsaber crystals have stats on them and restrictions. It's a sad world we live in, I know.

Edited February 26, 2012 by LucisAbyssus

[DieAlteHexe]

1. Have read them. Seems like whining to me.

 

2. Two sided coin. You receive nothing which you do not give.

 

3. Implied through your posts/agreements I have read.

 

4. Implied through that statement that you believe the majority want everything handed to them/no progression. The eyes of the white tower are not blind.

 

1. Please point me to one. I would appreciate the ability to see where I "whined".

 

2. Perhaps your "filter" is wonky? My intent has not been nor will it ever be to be rude to a fellow gamer.

 

3. It is wiser to be certain of what a discussion involves rather than rely on perceived implications. In this particular case, you are dead wrong. And I have been clear about my position on this business of "being handed stuff for doing nothing". Quite. Clear. I oppose it. I do strongly support alternate routes to equally fun/effective stuff.

 

4. I do not believe the majority wants everything handed to them. In fact, I believe quite the opposite. My position is for content so that ALL play-styles can work toward a goal and have fun/effective stuff.

 

Be back tomorrow. Time to get a few hours in game.

[NoxiousAlby]

I'm referring to anyone who earns something in this game they thought had worth/meaning and then has it cheapened dramatically so that everyone in the entire game can get it for 10 credits a pop.

 

If we are going to vendor everything why have raids? Why have pvp? Why not just create Sims: Star Wars? Why, I ask? Because this is a themepark MMO.

 

The answer is because BW couldnt come up with anything original. It's the "holy trinity" just like every other MMO of the past 15yrs.

 

Considering newer and shinnier items will be available from new raids when this happens making the current raid only items obsolete, I dont really care either way. As I stated before i'd rather the items be part of loot in a solo version of the raid we could run with 3- 5 companions, at least then I would have felt like I worked for it to some degree. I wont be buying any of the items as I doubt i'll be playing.

Edited February 26, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

[AKfourtyseven]

Actually I've not seen MMO's vendor items after two and a half months has passed for their game, I think you just put this:

 

As damage control.

 

They do however begin to vendor the items once a new patch comes. However, vending items usually tends to still cost a certain amount of tokens you earn.

 

 

No, i put that because im not just talking about items that can be vendored which is all you are focusing on. Im talking about any kind of achievement in the game- it will be given away for easy when the next set comes in or time has elapsed and those who wanted it still havent got it.

 

Seriously, just be glad this game doesnt have prestige/alpha classes

Edited February 26, 2012 by AKfourtyseven

[DieAlteHexe]

Why do you point at percentage and majority?

If you are important... they aren't?

How far do you think a modern mmorpg can go without raids and personal progression?

And sorry to disappoint you, but a carrot is part of just that.

I can't count on two hands how many times people didn't want to do instances in other games because they didn't get anything from them making it worth their time.

Which kinda annoyed me, cause I just wanted to see the darn content.

Ever tried that?

 

 

Exactly what I marked with bold characters is what I try to point out.

We are NOT all the same, so we do NOT play the same content and therefor should we NOT get EXACT the same either.

Is that hard to understand?

It can be differences in items, titles or other things that part between it, doesn't matter really.

It just needs to ensure that everyone get's their piece of the cake,

Don't tell me that you can not have fun playing if player X gets something a bit different from what you get, as long as it doesn't hinder your progression you shouldn't have any problem.

I must say, the more I look at it, the more I like the choices another company has made for their upcoming mmo, since it seems to take pretty good care of EVERYONE from scratch.

 

Sorry! Almost missed this.

 

I'm not asking for the same, not sure why you think I am? I'm saying that I think each style (so PvP, raiding, questing/solo) should have goals to achieve. Specifically to this discussion, "cool stuff" be it crystals, speeders, armor etc.

 

As I said before, not being a PvPer, I have no interest in PvP stuff. Nor need. What I do want is something to shoot for, cool stuff, just like PvPers have. Something to progress my characters too.

 

So, carrot/stick. Just different type of...carrot.

 

But where I am mystified is why folk would be so upset when Carrot v. 1.5 of PvP is no longer the most über and thus available to those who came after WHILST there is Carrot v. 2.0 to now strive for? New carrot!

 

This is the way of MMOs...once a lot of people have gotten Carrot v.1.5, it's time for 2.0! So, 1.5 no longer matters as much.

 

If THAT is the problem, well, I have no answer to it. That's current MMO design.

 

And now, I go play the game. Good evening to all!

[LucisAbyssus]

1. Please point me to one. I would appreciate the ability to see where I "whined".

 

2. Perhaps your "filter" is wonky? My intent has not been nor will it ever be to be rude to a fellow gamer.

 

3. It is wiser to be certain of what a discussion involves rather than rely on perceived implications. In this particular case, you are dead wrong. And I have been clear about my position on this business of "being handed stuff for doing nothing". Quite. Clear. I oppose it. I do strongly support alternate routes to equally fun/effective stuff.

 

4. I do not believe the majority wants everything handed to them. In fact, I believe quite the opposite. My position is for content so that ALL play-styles can work toward a goal and have fun/effective stuff.

 

Be back tomorrow. Time to get a few hours in game.

 

1. From this page back 3-4 more pages, pick and choose.

 

2. I am not ignorant. I know what condescension is, I know what implication is. Stop trying to pretend.

 

3. Either way your support is misleading/misguided and does not belong in a themepark MMO. You do not need raid effective gear to role play. You do not need PvP effective gear to raid. You do not need social gear to raid. You do not need solo gear to PvP.

 

4. That's what Bioware has been working toward.

[Mineria]

The answer is because BW couldnt come up with anything original. It's the "holy trinity" just like every other MMO of the past 15yrs.

 

Considering newer and shinnier items will be available from new raids when this happens making the current raid only items obsolete, I dont really care either way. As I stated before i'd rather the items be part of loot in a solo version of the raid we could run with 3- 5 companions, at least then I would have felt like I worked for it to some degree. I wont be buying any of the items as I doubt i'll be playing.

 

Why would you want a solo version with 3-5 companions?

 

Wouldn't a solo version with 1 companion or a regular party version with companions be the same thing?

[Argorash]

The problem bioware are having is they give you a story rich game from 1-49 which is fun to solo in and then at 50 there is about 1 week /played of unique content.

Their solution? Give players something to spend credits they grind on.

Thats not going to work. In order to keep players you need to slowly progress their class stories.

[LucisAbyssus]

The answer is because BW couldnt come up with anything original. It's the "holy trinity" just like every other MMO of the past 15yrs.

 

Considering newer and shinnier items will be available from new raids when this happens making the current raid only items obsolete, I dont really care either way. As I stated before i'd rather the items be part of loot in a solo version of the raid we could run with 3- 5 companions, at least then I would have felt like I worked for it to some degree. I wont be buying any of the items as I doubt i'll be playing.

 

It's not that they couldn't, it's that they didn't want to.

 

They had no intention of claiming to be a messiah of astronomical change to the MMO industry. Other than adding in a 4th pillar, story, their intent was to stay as true to the Themepark genre as possible.

 

If you want new and refreshing play Guild Wars when it comes out. Then be disappointed and come back. Because that's what usually happens with new and refreshing.

[Warjhinn]

Wish I had time to read the pages of responses to this thread, but I don't.

 

Something that I think is worth mentioning, is that new better content will bee added. I am betting that the level cap will be raised, and your level 50 stuff will not be the best stuff anymore after that.

 

I am a "casual" player, or at least I think I am. I did not start out that way though. What turned me off to Wow was that once the elite minority defeated the raid in greens and blues, they forgot how it was possible to do it, and even though I had BOP items from the same raid, because my gearscore was too low, or I lacked the acheivement for actually clearing it entirely, I was not worthy to participate.

 

That is the direction the OP wants it to go. I used to go back when I overpowered the content, just so I could experience it, but I never got that sense of accomplishment when I did. Sooo.. as a former hardcore gamer, I have seen both sides of the equation. What you don't get, is that no matter how much easier it is for me to get the stuff you already have, I am always behind and trying to catch up.

 

I don't want to be making you rich, because you beat me there and have it on farm mode, and now you are auctioning off the drops and uniques. When this game gets to the point WoW has, than I will be done with it. I would rather play some of the F2P games than pay a monthly fee for a game like that.

 

This is very over-simplified, but I don't want to delve into my ideas on the game economy etc, or this will be a looooonng post.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Warjhinn

[Deelow]

Agree with Warjihnn here.

[Mineria]

But where I am mystified is why folk would be so upset when Carrot v. 1.5 of PvP is no longer the most über and thus available to those who came after WHILST there is Carrot v. 2.0 to now strive for? New carrot!

 

This is the way of MMOs...once a lot of people have gotten Carrot v.1.5, it's time for 2.0! So, 1.5 no longer matters as much.

 

Going from Carrot 1.5 to Carrot 2.0 is all fine, what is on the table is how people can get Carrot 1.5 when Carrot 2.o arrives.

If people just can buy Carrot 1.5, who is going to do the Carrot 1.5 instances with me when I hit level 50?

That is probably what I'm most concerned about, hopefully my guild is interested in doing these instances regardless of it.

Oh and before someone says anything, I recently rerolled after moving from a death server, even on the other side of the force.

 

There are some onions though, that aren't replaced by a new version, these are mainly victims to some choices in the game design that haven't been thought trough very well.

As for those, it might be better to add some onions v. 1.1 instead of selling out onion v1.0

 

It's all about vegetables now!