Two months in..

[Groncho]

Don't forget alot of MMO players are a fickle bunch. Some people don't want to wait as it's their money, so they'll just hop on to the next game.

 

Time & time again, i see the response "give it time", well Bioware have very little time left simply because what is coming out in the next few months.

 

Will people return once GW2, TERA, TSW are released? Maybe. But when they are released, the ball will be out of Biowares court. It all depends if any of these three games will deliver as to what people want.

 

lol no

the most funnt thing is reading about some fattie nerds talking about what ppl wants.....

lol marketing guru's

[SnakeBites]

lol no

the most funnt thing is reading about some fattie nerds talking about what ppl wants.....

lol marketing guru's

 

Alot of people are certainly not wanting what is here right now.

 

Love the fatty comment, i'm as thin as a rake. Try again.

Edited February 24, 2012 by SnakeBites

[Groncho]

Alot of people are certainly not wanting what is here right now.

 

Love the fatty comment, i'm as thin as a rake. Try again.

 

ill give u 100 dollars for each one

but u must gimme 10.000 names at least

 

get good diet then

[Shredbull]

So you're gonna give up after less than 58 days of game release?

 

No chance they add something more exciting, that's it? Wow, glad I don't have employees nor friends likes of you -o inspired one

 

May I just comment on this.

 

Some of us are giving up after 2 months of dissapointment.

 

I myself have wasted over 22 days ingame (Yes, in hours)

 

And I am personally sick and tired of the way things are run. PvP is completely a grindfest, there's no diversity, its the same thing all day every day. That while getting your *** kicked by the same premades every day.

 

I have stopped doing my dailys for a day or 4 now, and boy, it feels GREAT to be honest.

Same old obligation to log on at 1 friggin pm every day just to go to ilum, grab some kills before everyone leaves at 1:30 pm. Then do some quick warzones, get 3 wins, and open 2 battlemaster bags to find YET AGAIN nothing but champion commendations.

 

So pathetic. Battlemaster rank has ruined my pvp experience.

 

1.2 will either make it or break it for me, I will be ready with my finger on the unsub button.

 

Bioware has been slacking for 2 months, mostly fixing stuff they caused a day or two earlier.

I am tired of the ''Lay back and reel money in'' mentality they have. If you earn millions and millions, then show us some effort. We're not a dumb community, we're players who give up their time to play YOUR game. Yet we are dissapointed again and again.

 

Yes, the game is doing averagely well, but that IS NOT what we expected. We expected mistakes like RNG, and no brackets, to not even exist at launch. Yet decent hard working players have been struggling to keep their heads above water with these stupid and poor game designs.

 

It is time this bull **** ends. 1.2 will either make it or break it for me. I will seek another mmorpg if this new patch favors the veterans once again.

[Waagabond]

The pvp design in this game has no real direction. It's basically "let's copy WoW".

 

It doesn't matter how many WZ's and arenas they add. When pvp is just a gear grind, people will lose interest.

 

The game engine or servers cannot support mass pvp so things like sieges which already run well in a certain games beta will never exist to a reasonable standard in this game. I had high hopes, I followed this game for a long time.

 

Bioware you made an awesome PvE game but you have already done that many times at a fraction of the cost. In pvp you disappointed many. I was promised no grind but once I hit 50 I was left with nothing but grind.

 

Wrong.

 

First: The gear grind makes people remain interested, thats rule #1: Make a gear grind, but dont make it take too long time.

Since the implementation of comms in champ bags they got it pretty spot on, it takes 2 days to get full pvp set if you pvp a few hours a day. Thats all.

 

The PVP in SWTOR is excellent, and will be better.

The current warzones in SWTOR is better then anything wow have to offer.

 

And regarding copy wow:

 

Wow copied dark age of camelots battlegrounds to start with, they was even called battlegrounds.

And in warhammer there was also battlegrounds, but far better done then any of wows still 7 year old ones.

 

SWTOR pvp is better then wow battlegrounds ever where.

Although I can at times miss arena, it was all about class composition and due to consistent class imbalances made little sense more then for fun.

 

Looking forward to new hutballs., and looking forward to a nerf to sorcs and sages, especially for hutball where they can literally "sling" the ball from one end to the other in a matter of seconds if there is atleast 3+ sorc, sages (which there often is).

[Waagabond]

1.2 will not be the saving grace of this game. It's too far gone, I don't care what we are told.

 

At this point they have to double down on their competitive advantage.

 

Voice over acting.

 

It's the main attraction along with the companion system, and to a lesser extent the space missions. PvP is not going to be taken seriously, and the game as a whole will suffer. I mean, the evidence is everywhere...

 

Simply by looking at leveling, and the scarcity of PvP during that time. That's not a design flaw, that's an implementation flaw.

 

Autofacing...hold my hand while I PvP, it's scary in this WZ.

 

It's a PvE game with voice over acting. We get it. I can see years from now the joke will be that this game was remembered for how fast I can push the spacebar. 2 months into it and I'm already seeing groups LFM who have serious spacebar skills.

 

I'm betting their 'cool' 'new' ace-up-the-sleeve for Ilum is adding vehicles or some **** like that.

 

I understand it's financially responsible to copy WoW, go ahead, but ignoring other games that have - and still have loyal PvPers because of the gameplay is foolish --- from a financial standpoint. Gameplay > Content first and foremost. Content can be renewed and fixed. Gameplay is where the rubber meets the road and SWTOR cannot be given accolades based on this alone -- I don't care how much you enjoy this game, run WZs and slideshow your way through Ilum until your eyes bleed when you hit 50. That's SWTOR PvP.

 

I do like the pvp in SWTOR but I need to agree with you as well.

 

Ilum is great when you are 2, 3 and face off 4-5. Anything more then that and its a lag fest which I cant mathematically comprehend how they failed to make that happen, with war being several years old and was able to have hundreds of people fighting eachother at the same time.

 

What bioware fails to understand is that an MMO lives and dies by its PVP, and also by its PVE of course.

But there have never been a successful mmo unless it had a strong pvp part. It also need a very good pve content, and the combination is the key.

 

I think SWTOR is heading in the right directoin.

Operations are fine, they go fast to complete, which is a good thing, there is plenty for the PVE fantast to do at this moment, and for PVP, its a tad monotonious to play the same warzones over and over but wow was the same.

I loved Arathi basin, my favorite battleground, and I really must say I enjoy civil war and hutball alot. I find voidstar to be a little messy and requires less tactics then civil war or hutball, and as such its less interesting.

 

Lets see what the game brings.

Above all, I hope they fix sorcs and sages so they live on the same planet as the rest of us.

[Gwal]

Wrong.

 

First: The gear grind makes people remain interested, thats rule #1: Make a gear grind, but dont make it take too long time.

Since the implementation of comms in champ bags they got it pretty spot on, it takes 2 days to get full pvp set if you pvp a few hours a day. Thats all.

 

The PVP in SWTOR is excellent, and will be better.

The current warzones in SWTOR is better then anything wow have to offer.

 

And regarding copy wow:

 

Wow copied dark age of camelots battlegrounds to start with, they was even called battlegrounds.

And in warhammer there was also battlegrounds, but far better done then any of wows still 7 year old ones.

 

SWTOR pvp is better then wow battlegrounds ever where.

Although I can at times miss arena, it was all about class composition and due to consistent class imbalances made little sense more then for fun.

 

Looking forward to new hutballs., and looking forward to a nerf to sorcs and sages, especially for hutball where they can literally "sling" the ball from one end to the other in a matter of seconds if there is atleast 3+ sorc, sages (which there often is).

 

If you want a sequel to WoW in a sci fi setting then play and enjoy this game. I am glad you're having fun me and many others are not having fun. The guild I am in has been in a few games together over about 4 years out of at least 30 of us more than half have gone back to older games or moved onto indie titles were still sharing the same TS and the SWTOR rooms are emptying as the older rooms are refilling and new ones are being created. The game was fun to begin with but doesn't have the content/depth required to subscribe. I've done Illum, done the WZ's done the NM mode ops. I've finished an MMO it was fun but that is past tense now.

[Gelmar]

Don't forget alot of MMO players are a fickle bunch. Some people don't want to wait as it's their money, so they'll just hop on to the next game.

 

Time & time again, i see the response "give it time", well Bioware have very little time left simply because what is coming out in the next few months.

 

Will people return once GW2, TERA, TSW are released? Maybe. But when they are released, the ball will be out of Biowares court. It all depends if any of these three games will deliver as to what people want.

 

Lol mark my words you will go to every one of the new games that come out and the same peeps will be complaning about the same thing.

 

I have played every mmo that has come out since EQ...its all the same complaints. WOW sucked the first 6 monthes it was out, look at it now. COH lousy the first 6 months, took them like 2 years to even include PVP, it wasnt what the pvp crowd wanted a lot of them left....you know what the game is still fine. Its the same thing with any game you look at. It will be the same thing with any game that comes out.

 

Face it while i understand that there is a grp of people that like pvp you will in no way make or break any game on the market in the past present or future.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Gelmar

[Ozzone]

1.2 was the make or break patch for Warhammer also. We all know how that turned out.

 

What should we expect since the same devs that worked on WAR are working on SWTOR?

[oblongship]

So you're gonna give up after less than 58 days of game release?

 

No chance they add something more exciting, that's it? Wow, glad I don't have employees nor friends likes of you -o inspired one

 

And I am glad you aren't running anything I am paying for.

 

"Oh just give it time, wait it out" Yeah that is EXACTLY what paying customers want to hear.

 

The fact this game was released and is buggy as crap, unbalanced and poorly designed is one thing. For them to put stuff in the patch notes that was "fixed" then you log in the game and it's not then find ninja nerf things that weren't in the patch notes just takes it to a whole different level of frustration.

[Finreal]

They've had more than half a decade to get where we are today. They have two months-ish untill GW2 comes out. Those are the relavent facts.

 

Now let's pretend that we are all EA execs. We must pretend that the last time we played a "video game" was Space Invaders back at Harvard/Yale during the 80s. We must also pretend that we don't realy know what PvP actualy is.

 

With this in mind let's look at what happens when Gabe sends us an e-mail saying he needs lots of money and lots of staff to try and make our PvP more rewarding and entertaining than what GW2 has to offer. Gabe tells us that we will have to practicaly re-write the engine to facilitate ORvR as the current one simply can't do it. Gabe finishes by telling us that if we can't do all of those things and do them in 2 months, we'll lose all the PvPers to GW2.

 

So! What would your executive decission be?

 

Mine would be simple. **** it, we've allready invested everything we have on this title, let's just concentrate on PvEers and make some money back for the share holders because they are allready pissed off that their shares have lost at least $3 in value after two months. I don't want to get the sack.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Finreal

[Scav]

Well, warhammer online had some good ideas for pvp until they killed it w/ underworld addition (or whatever that crap was called) and the huge faction & class inbalances. But knowing the track record of Mystic, they'll just remove Ilum instead of fixing it. Edited February 24, 2012 by Scav

[MPagano]

I think the crux of this is the fact that some people are happy with the game and others aren't. There's a point in all of this that the happy players aren't getting and the unhappy ones aren't communicating clearly.

 

There's nothing wrong with COH or some of the other games that players are pointing to in order to demonstrate how games can be successful after shaky launches. That's a great point. The problem is that TOR is different from those games in a very important way.

 

A game like COH or even WAR might have a rough launch and need to play catch up to save the subscribers they have- the players that stick it out and eventually enjoy a more developed product. The problem with TOR is that it may not be possible to limp around until everything is fixed. BW can't add content as quickly or cheaply as COH or WAR. Everything is voice acted, the production values are astronomical compared to any other game. They NEED a large subscriber base to break even let alone grow over time.

 

The happy players are saying "look, the sky isn't falling, this happens all the time, and i'll play and love this game for a long time to come." The unhappy players are saying "this game is too big to fail. If they don't gain traction and pull it together very, very soon, they're going to drop enough in revenue that they can't put out the content that costs all this money and time".

 

Time will tell, but I tend to agree with the naysayers. If BW doesn't do something drastic, they're going to sag into the zone of money out > money in.

[ReckonerH]

Pretty sure the consensus for the entire community is that Bioware can have all the time in the world to fix the game, and we certainly hope they do. Most of us just won't be paying for subs until it happens. It really is that simple.

[Mournblood]

I disagree with the OP. While the game is very new, Bioware has made some extremely incompetent design decisions with PvP and could have done a MUCH better job at release with their PvP game. Even if we acknowledge this is their first MMO, they should have had the wherewithal to recognize that and done a great deal more due diligence to see what's worked and what hasn't worked for other MMOs. The crap they delivered is far below current MMO standards, and will take anywhere from 6 months to a year of additional development and design rework to make even remotely enjoyable and balanced for the majority of their (average) PvP players.

 

What's equally distressing is that Bioware is focusing on "fixing" things that shouldn't be their priority right now. For example, the rampant WZ quitting. So in response to the QQ about that, they are adding a deserter debuff. That's not a bad thing by itself, but it doesn't address the actual issue, which is WARZONES. If they fixed the queue system so that Warzones don't actually start until both sides have full teams instead of one side having 10 (2 more than they should have) and other side having 4, maybe players wouldn't be quitting those matches. Or if they added a separate queue for premades so that PUGs don't have to deal with getting facerolled by organized teams, maybe players wouldn't be quitting those matches. Or if they queued matches by relative Valor ranks so that rank 60+ players in full BM gear aren't curbstomping fresh lvl 50 players in a few pieces of Centurion gear, maybe players wouldn't be quitting those matches.

 

In my opinion, PvP was a very obvious afterthought for the development of this game, and unfortunately as a result, they are making some of the same mistakes other MMOs made (and learned from) 6-7 years ago. Now they seem to be panicking in damage control mode, trying to fix things before their PvP playerbase quits en masse. Frankly, I don't think it's too much to expect that subscribers should be able to enjoy PvP for their money, and if we're honest here, most players are not currently enjoying PvP in this game.

[Gelmar]

Frankly and i dont want to be insulting but pvp may have been a afterthought for a reason.......The fan base (call them what you like) will play the game because its Star Wars and thats good enough for them. Thats the same market draw that STO has. It was the same thing for them and pvp, but the "fans" stuck it out and now we have a very nice game when we want "To Boldly Go"

[Demarco]

Personally I think this game was released in final BETA format. I don't think it is out of BETA yet.

 

This magic 1.2 revision that it supposed to change the world as we know it is actually the final release version that the developers had intended.

 

Having said that, I have been on this game in two BETA test sessions and from Early Access on to today. I think there some very glaring problems in PvP and the Crafting aspects of this game that make me wonder what the developers were thinking.

 

First of all the PvP War Zone wheel of Mystery is stupid. You should be able to select what games you want to play when you go into the war zones. Playing a blind draw just irriatates me no end as I seem to get Huttball 3 to 1 over every other game and I simply despise Huttball. It is the most aggrivating game I have ever played. That's my personal view and I should be able to check that off a list of options. But I cannot.

 

PvP is also lopsided in power ranking heavily towards the Empire Classes, if you get 3 Emperial Sorcs in a group they can literally stand you straight up and fry you in seconds and there is NOTHING that can be done to interupt this tactic. The Lightining Attack is too strong and spams too often to be fair against anything the Republic classes have to counter. Yet all I see in the updates regarding nerfs seems to be loering republic classes ability to lessen them and the Sorcs never get touched.

 

Last on PvP, you can only run these same old tired maps for so long before you are yawning... If this is the final destination, there is nothing here to hold me in the game long term. I have 3 level 50 toons. The storyline quest has lost it's novelty so what to do now? PvP for gear I'm told.... Wake me up in 15 minutes.

 

As for Crafting, why on earth would BioWare make crafting a sidebar in this game if everything you want eventually comes from flashpoints, Ops, and PvP? There is absolutely no benefit to crafting except to either take slicing for cash or biotech for stims. There is nothing else that is worth the effort and cost that you cannot get a better item from doing the things I noted above. That's just not how things should work.

 

Crafting in SWG offered you an activity to do that filled time after you maxed level that was beneficial to you and the community. It allowed you to be creative and you could build a brand people wanted. THIS game's crafting is so much a sidebar afterthought it should just be omitted. It's a worthless credit sink that really gives you nothing back for the effort and cost put forward. There's no way that a development team really thought this out... Very poor effort overall.

 

BioWare Developers should review that post haste.

 

I fear I have created a wall of text... I'll stop now. Thanks for reading.

[ReckonerH]

I doubt 1.2 will be anything special. The community has been hyping it up and talking about it more than the devs. Apart from rated warzones, what other big thing are they actually implementing?