Crafting needs a complete do-over

[Tenacity]

I'm sorry but in it's current state, crafting is largely useless, and as so many point out there's only one or two crew skills that are actually worth bothering with at endgame.

 

 

 

Problem 1: Material Acquisition

 

For green and blue crafted items, obtaining materials is not a huge issue. Your mission skills (Diplomacy, Underworld Trading, Investigation, Treasure Hunting) will always reward at least blue-quality materials, and green-quality materials are available from both gathering skills and gathering skill missions.

 

To make anything of artifact (purple) quality, you have to get critical rolls on missions. I've been trying to obtain grade 5 underworld metals recently to create purple ship upgrades, using Kaliyo Djannis (who has +2 underworld trading critical), and out of more than a dozen missions I havent gotten a single purple-quality material, only blue.

 

Being forced to not only spend exhorbitant amounts of money - but also just as much time - in order to send companions out on these missions, only to end up relying on a random number generator to decide whether or not you get the proper material, is just poor design.

 

Nobody likes to rely on chance, that's been proven over the past 15 years of gaming, if not more. Chance is bad, RNG is bad, and being forced to rely on it in order to even be capable of crafting an item is honestly the most ridiculous system I've ever seen in MMO history.

 

 

 

 

 

Problem 2: Reverse Engineering

 

Again, we're forced to rely on chance, on a random number generator, to progress. Regardless of what they change this chance into, there will always be the possibility to never see that schematic upgrade.

 

On my 50 powertech, with biochem, I've thus far created more than 40 level 49 blue-quality implants, in an attempt to get a purple implant schematic for my alt. Out of nearly four dozen implants made, I've gotten ONE purple schematic, and it has stats that do not even benefit the class the implant is designed for (Honestly, why would you put shield rating on cunning-based items? The RNG is bad enough but this is just freaking retarded).

 

The entire reverse engineering system is 'fun' in THEORY, but when you put it to practice all it does is create frustration as you pour your resources into something that never gives you anything back.

 

 

 

 

 

Problem 3: Customization

 

Right now, there is ZERO room for customizing your crafted items. You cannot change what slots show up (barring, again, an RNG roll for a critical item with an augment slot), you cannot change the appearance of your crafted items, you have no control at all over the stats of the crafted item short of randomly reverse engineering a schematic with the proper stats you're looking for.

 

If there's no customization involved, why craft at all? There's no way for a crafter to 'stand out' at the moment, no way for someone to be recognized for making items of value. Think back to SWG's original crafting system - there were crafters that were known across their entire server - or multiple servers - for being exceptionally good at what they do. Here, every artificer is just like every other artificer, the most variation you'll ever see is if one of them does a world boss or a raid to get a schematic drop, and even then that item is still available to everyone else with minimal effort involved.

 

 

 

 

 

Problem 4: No interaction

 

Getting your companions to slave over everything for you - to gather your materials, craft your items, go out on missions - it was cute at first, but it's a terrible design. It removes all interaction from the crafting game (other than reverse engineering, which is just a timesink anyways) - and that in turn removes the fun from it.

 

Crafting needs interaction, it needs control, it needs an interface which allows players to choose what they want and achieve that result. The current system does none of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Solutions:

 

First off, get rid of companions creating items for us. I'm fine with sending my companions out on missions - but beyond that there is no way to implement the level of control needed for a good crafting system if your companions are making the items.

 

There are workbenches throughout the game that are no longer necessary because item modification can be done from any location now. Your crafting system mentions that specific workstations are still needed for making items, when they arent. We have a crafting station on our ship that our companions use, which could be easily altered into a player-usable station.

 

 

Activating a workbench (or the crafting station on your ship), should provide you with a crafting interface based on your current crafting skill (and since we can only have one crafting skill on a character, it shouldnt be a problem having the bench bring up a skill-specific interface). This interface should allow you to pick a type of item you want to craft, apply materials and enhancements to that item, and select a desired appearance for that item based on a list of patterns a player has learned.

 

 

I'll use artifice as a first example:

 

Step 1: Activate/right click on a workbench or your ship crafting station

 

Upon doing this, a window is brought up on your screen which shows a layout of the workbench surface, along with a list of buttons. For artifice, you'd see the following buttons:

Hilt

Enhancement

Lightsaber

Color Crystal

Relic

Focus/Shield Generator

 

You click on one of these items, and the workbench surface changes to the crafting layout for that item. We'll start with a hilt - On the left side of the window you'll see three empty square slots that you can drag and drop crafting materials into. In the middle of the window you'll see buttons corresponding to each material slot from the left. On the right side of the window, you'll see a slot that shows the final item.

 

You drag and drop a grade 6 green material into the top slot. The buttons next to it will allow you to select a primary stat for that material: willpower or strength. The amount of willpower or strength applied to the final hilt item will correspond to the level and quality of the material in that slot (green materials will give lower stat bonuses than blue, or purple).

 

For the other slots you get to choose other stats, based on the item you're making - you can pick something like critical rating or power. The third slot would be something like absorption, alacrity, or surge.

 

 

If you want to craft a lightsaber, the process would remain the same, but you'd have the ability to insert pre-made hilts/enhancements/mods/color crystals into that lightsaber during the crafting process. Items like weapons or armor would additionally give you the option of adding an augment slot by spending some extra purple-quality materials. On the right side of the window (past the item), you'd get a list of possible aesthetic appearances for the item, allowing you to choose what you want the lightsaber hilt to look like, or what you want the robes you're making to look like, so on and so forth.

 

 

 

This system would allow a player to directly control what stats an item has - you could make a strength + shield rating + surge rating hilt if you wanted, rather than the preset stats we have now. You wouldnt need to rely on RNG to decide what quality of item you can make, or whether or not an item has an augment slot - and most importantly of all you'd be able to craft gear with both the stats and appearance you're aiming for.

[Overlord_Orcus]

EPIC IDEA

I am in full support

And seeing as how. Reminds me a lot of custom saber creation in KotOR

[JoyProtocol]

I support the general idea, but I would like to present a devil's advocate argument:

 

A complicated crafting system creates one (or more) out of three scenarios.

- One, everyone HAS to craft to receive good gear. This is not a good option.

 

- Two, crafting becomes too complex for non-crafters to comprehend. They won't know what to order, and would prefer dropped loot because it doesn't require an hour's worth of reading or talking to a crafter

 

- Three, if you can make anything, it trivializes all other items in the game. Better gear is a common reason to repeat flashpoints/ops/pvp. Why not just kill 65,340,285 boars to get the money and BiS item? If you need op-sourced mats for crafting... why even have gear on bosses in the first place?

 

Just food for thought. Throwing more variables is not necessarily a good solution.

Edited February 23, 2012 by JoyProtocol

[Gwal]

"Nobody likes to rely on chance, that's been proven over the past 15 years of gaming, if not more. Chance is bad, RNG is bad, and being forced to rely on it in order to even be capable of crafting an item is honestly the most ridiculous system I've ever seen in MMO history"

 

Honestly I am not trolling but this is an RPG before we had them on computers we used "Dice" the original random number generator. I think I may even have a 20 year old D100 laying about here somewhere.

 

I actually like the sound of the system you suggest though.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Gwal

[GnatB]

I'm sorry but in it's current state, crafting is largely useless, and as so many point out there's only one or two crew skills that are actually worth bothering with at endgame.

 

 

 

Problem 1: Material Acquisition

 

For green and blue crafted items, obtaining materials is not a huge issue. Your mission skills (Diplomacy, Underworld Trading, Investigation, Treasure Hunting) will always reward at least blue-quality materials, and green-quality materials are available from both gathering skills and gathering skill missions.

 

To make anything of artifact (purple) quality, you have to get critical rolls on missions. I've been trying to obtain grade 5 underworld metals recently to create purple ship upgrades, using Kaliyo Djannis (who has +2 underworld trading critical), and out of more than a dozen missions I havent gotten a single purple-quality material, only blue.

 

Being forced to not only spend exhorbitant amounts of money - but also just as much time - in order to send companions out on these missions, only to end up relying on a random number generator to decide whether or not you get the proper material, is just poor design.

 

Nobody likes to rely on chance, that's been proven over the past 15 years of gaming, if not more. Chance is bad, RNG is bad, and being forced to rely on it in order to even be capable of crafting an item is honestly the most ridiculous system I've ever seen in MMO history.

 

I don't actually see a problem with material acquisition. Purple *should* be relatively rare. The problem... is that it isn't. You can get purple fairly easily from commendation merchants at those upper levels. I'd also argue that those grade 5 (or are they 6?) spaceship parts shouldn't use purple mats in the first place. They *are* simply the next set of upgrades (~lvl 45ish?) after the ~lvl 40 grade 4 (or is it 5?) parts.

 

Now, perhaps they should (have) made it such that purple are a common (but not always) drop from missions, and dark purple, for dark purple schematics, are a rare drop?

[Tenacity]

I support the general idea, but I would like to present a devil's advocate argument:

 

A complicated crafting system creates one (or more) out of three scenarios.

- One, everyone HAS to craft to receive good gear. This is not a good option.

 

- Two, crafting becomes too complex for non-crafters to comprehend. They won't know what to order, and would prefer dropped loot because it doesn't require an hour's worth of reading or talking to a crafter

 

- Three, if you can make anything, it trivializes all other items in the game. Better gear is a common reason to repeat flashpoints/ops/pvp. Why not just kill 65,340,285 boars to get the money and BiS item? If you need op-sourced mats for crafting... why even have gear on bosses in the first place?

 

Just food for thought. Throwing more variables is not necessarily a good solution.

 

I dont see the issue with 1/3 there.

 

We have orange gear in the game for a reason, customization. In fact, by level 50, 99% of people are going to be using full orange/customizable items until they get to raid content, where they're forced to use other gear because that raid content doesnt have removable armorings/barrels/hilts currently.

 

 

What I'm suggesting here is that -all- crafted items are of orange/custom quality, other than the crafted hilts/barrels/armorings/mods/enhancements (and the items like relics which cannot be orange quality at all). Though, I think that we should even have orange quality crafted implants/earpieces/relics as well, so that players can customize the stats those items have.

 

If all crafted and endgame gear is of custom (orange) quality, then all that matters are the mods you put into those items - some of which are crafted, some of which are obtained as endgame or pvp rewards. The crafted items would come with some basic stats on them based on the materials you use, if you choose.

[JoyProtocol]

I dont see the issue with 1/3 there.

 

We have orange gear in the game for a reason, customization. In fact, by level 50, 99% of people are going to be using full orange/customizable items until they get to raid content, where they're forced to use other gear because that raid content doesnt have removable armorings/barrels/hilts currently.

 

 

What I'm suggesting here is that -all- crafted items are of orange/custom quality, other than the crafted hilts/barrels/armorings/mods/enhancements (and the items like relics which cannot be orange quality at all). Though, I think that we should even have orange quality crafted implants/earpieces/relics as well, so that players can customize the stats those items have.

 

If all crafted and endgame gear is of custom (orange) quality, then all that matters are the mods you put into those items - some of which are crafted, some of which are obtained as endgame or pvp rewards. The crafted items would come with some basic stats on them based on the materials you use, if you choose.

 

Y U NO USE WHITE TEXT?

 

Seriously though - from what I understand, it actually worked very similar to this in the Beta, but was changed since.

 

What I think would be best is if most/all crafted+dropped items came with mod/enhancement/augment slots - that way you still have controlled items that do not level, but you can customize them greatly.

EDIT: Similar to the Epic items you will sometimes get in a random drop

 

That would require a review of mods/enhancements selection - which I've heard is quite poor at level 50

Edited February 23, 2012 by JoyProtocol

[GnatB]

I support the general idea, but I would like to present a devil's advocate argument:

 

A complicated crafting system creates one (or more) out of three scenarios.

- One, everyone HAS to craft to receive good gear. This is not a good option.

 

- Two, crafting becomes too complex for non-crafters to comprehend. They won't know what to order, and would prefer dropped loot because it doesn't require an hour's worth of reading or talking to a crafter

 

- Three, if you can make anything, it trivializes all other items in the game. Better gear is a common reason to repeat flashpoints/ops/pvp. Why not just kill 65,340,285 boars to get the money and BiS item? If you need op-sourced mats for crafting... why even have gear on bosses in the first place?

 

Just food for thought. Throwing more variables is not necessarily a good solution.

 

I don't actually see the problem with any of those points...

 

One. Everybody HAS to purchase *from* a crafter to receive good gear (assuming they aren't the crafter themselves). That's a great option.

 

Two. Good crafters would be the ones able to custom tailor the best items for their clients. That's a great feature. (and "Buyers" could still presumably be able to purchase "finished" items off the GTN.)

 

Three. You still need the mats to be able to make the stuff. If the best mats are only found in flashpoints/ops/pvp? And hey. Maybe you SHOULDN'T have gear on bosses in the first place. Maybe they SHOULD only drop mats? That sounds like a pretty good idea too. What's that sith warrior doing carrying around trooper boots anyways? But makes perfect sense some of his gear broke down into cybernetic crystal alloy or whatever. (but admittedly, some instant gratification types like "Phat Lewt NAO!". But said loot shouldn't be as good as the stuff you get when you take the mats back to a crafter.)

[Nythain]

I like devils advocates, they make the thinking and brainstorming process better. A few counter points now.

- One, everyone HAS to craft to receive good gear. This is not a good option.

Not necessarily. Players could still raid for eternity hoping for good (and should be slightly better) drops. Also, the GTN. Seriouisl. Better quality and more customized item crafting allows for a more flourishing market. Or better yet, a market in general.

- Two, crafting becomes too complex for non-crafters to comprehend. They won't know what to order, and would prefer dropped loot because it doesn't require an hour's worth of reading or talking to a crafter

Well, honestly, crafting should be too complex for non-crafters. I've been against self sufficient crafting for the better half of a decade or more now. There's no need to even have crafting if it's something everyone can and will do just to sustain themselves more easily. There's no market for stuff anyone and everyone can and does just make for themselves. That being said, the final product should never be too complicated, but I fail to see anything exceptionally complicated about the proposed system. If i wanted an item I'd just get a hold of a crafter or search the GTN for lets's say, a chestpiece and be like "well, i want something heavy with some strength that looks more like armor than a bathrobe" and leave it up to the crafter to offer results.

- Three, if you can make anything, it trivializes all other items in the game. Better gear is a common reason to repeat flashpoints/ops/pvp. Why not just kill 65,340,285 boars to get the money and BiS item? If you need op-sourced mats for crafting... why even have gear on bosses in the first place?

This is by far the most complicated thing to try to balance with crafting. As a crafter, it sucks we always get shafted to better drops/pvp items end game. It makes us feel useless. But i also understand that there have to be other alternatives for gear besides crafting, otherwise end game avenues of entertainment become useless. As you said, why raid/pvp at all. I don't think anyone said crafting should produce teh *best* results, but it would be nice to produce actually viable end game products. That way, those that can afford, and don't want to raid for 3 months for a pair of boots, can instead get a hold of their local crafter or check the GTN for something comparable.

Just food for thought. Throwing more variables is not necessarily a good solution.

This is very true, but vice versa, more flexibility and customization isn't necessarily a bad solution either. It's a very tricky balance, which i can only assume is why it hasn't really been bothered with or focused on since SWG and Eve.

[JoyProtocol]

I shall once more play the Devil's Advocate

 

I don't actually see the problem with any of those points...

 

One. Everybody HAS to purchase *from* a crafter to receive good gear (assuming they aren't the crafter themselves). That's a great option.

 

Two. Good crafters would be the ones able to custom tailor the best items for their clients. That's a great feature. (and "Buyers" could still presumably be able to purchase "finished" items off the GTN.)

 

Three. You still need the mats to be able to make the stuff. If the best mats are only found in flashpoints/ops/pvp? And hey. Maybe you SHOULDN'T have gear on bosses in the first place. Maybe they SHOULD only drop mats? That sounds like a pretty good idea too. What's that sith warrior doing carrying around trooper boots anyways? But makes perfect sense some of his gear broke down into cybernetic crystal alloy or whatever. (but admittedly, some instant gratification types like "Phat Lewt NAO!". But said loot shouldn't be as good as the stuff you get when you take the mats back to a crafter.)

 

The reason for the three points I have brought up is that this would make the system more rewarding for the "serious"/"hardcore" players. Getting gear would be more "involved" effort and less "casual playing" effort.

 

If the crafters hold the sole source of a) satisfying gear and b) progression, then the economy becomes reliant on it. This can quickly evolve into a) Who can farm credits faster and b) Everyone crafts for themselves. I will continue with the next post...

 

 

I like devils advocates, they make the thinking and brainstorming process better. A few counter points now.

 

Not necessarily. Players could still raid for eternity hoping for good (and should be slightly better) drops. Also, the GTN. Seriouisl. Better quality and more customized item crafting allows for a more flourishing market. Or better yet, a market in general.

 

Well, honestly, crafting should be too complex for non-crafters. I've been against self sufficient crafting for the better half of a decade or more now. There's no need to even have crafting if it's something everyone can and will do just to sustain themselves more easily. There's no market for stuff anyone and everyone can and does just make for themselves. That being said, the final product should never be too complicated, but I fail to see anything exceptionally complicated about the proposed system. If i wanted an item I'd just get a hold of a crafter or search the GTN for lets's say, a chestpiece and be like "well, i want something heavy with some strength that looks more like armor than a bathrobe" and leave it up to the crafter to offer results.

 

This is by far the most complicated thing to try to balance with crafting. As a crafter, it sucks we always get shafted to better drops/pvp items end game. It makes us feel useless. But i also understand that there have to be other alternatives for gear besides crafting, otherwise end game avenues of entertainment become useless. As you said, why raid/pvp at all. I don't think anyone said crafting should produce teh *best* results, but it would be nice to produce actually viable end game products. That way, those that can afford, and don't want to raid for 3 months for a pair of boots, can instead get a hold of their local crafter or check the GTN for something comparable.

 

This is very true, but vice versa, more flexibility and customization isn't necessarily a bad solution either. It's a very tricky balance, which i can only assume is why it hasn't really been bothered with or focused on since SWG and Eve.

 

 

EDIT: I just realized I kinda rambled off away from your point. Apologies.

 

This would be more rewarding for the crafters, but it would increase the entry difficulty.

• If you are a new crafter, you have to learn a complex system to even be able to compete with existing crafters who possibly play more hours per day than you.
  
• If you are a new player, you need to learn that your gear can ONLY come from crafters
  
• Furthermore, if you are a new player, you will somehow have to earn the money that other players who have played for months/years already have. Inflation occurs, making it much harder for new players to buy competitive gear
  
• The above will promote gold farming and selling
  
• This would also hinder the enjoyment of more casual players, especially if this is also applied to earlier levels. Have you tried leveling a new character on a mature WoW server? You cannot buy anything, because all items for new characters are priced up to be bought by existing players rolling alts.
  

 

All I've said here can be summarized by - increasing reliance on crafting, and increasing crafting complexity, would be very rewarding to crafters, and "hardcore" players. This could produce a continual inflation, and heavy dependance on player content. This could in turn marginalize new players, increase entry bar into raid/pvp and overall create a lopsided system.

 

The best example of that would be EVE Online, which is notoriously hard to get into.

(Hey look! There's a comic about it http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c.jpg)

 

I don't believe an MMO such as SWTOR should marginalize new/casual players, and hand the control of content over to crafters. The current system is not the best, but you can't go too far the other way.

 

I agree with Nythain in terms of that this would require balance - a balance towards people who like crafting, people who like buying crafted items, and people who don't want to do either. WoW, despite being known as one with the simplest crafting system, approached that successfully - good leveling gear, entry-level raid gear, and sometimes BiS/Legendary crafted that requires excessive effort but provides unique look/benefit.

Edited February 24, 2012 by JoyProtocol

[livnthedream]

I'm sorry but in it's current state, crafting is largely useless, and as so many point out there's only one or two crew skills that are actually worth bothering with at endgame.

 

this is patently false. many bis items come from crafting, with many more very close. you can easily use crafted gear to skip strait to "endgame" atleast for pve. if you want to argue that its useless for pvp, i agree.

 

Problem 1: Material Acquisition

 

For green and blue crafted items, obtaining materials is not a huge issue. Your mission skills (Diplomacy, Underworld Trading, Investigation, Treasure Hunting) will always reward at least blue-quality materials, and green-quality materials are available from both gathering skills and gathering skill missions.

 

To make anything of artifact (purple) quality, you have to get critical rolls on missions. I've been trying to obtain grade 5 underworld metals recently to create purple ship upgrades, using Kaliyo Djannis (who has +2 underworld trading critical), and out of more than a dozen missions I havent gotten a single purple-quality material, only blue.

 

Being forced to not only spend exhorbitant amounts of money - but also just as much time - in order to send companions out on these missions, only to end up relying on a random number generator to decide whether or not you get the proper material, is just poor design.

 

Nobody likes to rely on chance, that's been proven over the past 15 years of gaming, if not more. Chance is bad, RNG is bad, and being forced to rely on it in order to even be capable of crafting an item is honestly the most ridiculous system I've ever seen in MMO history.

 

 

its a good thing that bioware put in ways to guarantee mission returns then right? also, your whine about credits (exorbitant really?) is really unfounded imo. spending an hour running dailies will net you 150k credits easy, plus some daily comms. as for crafting on chance you dont speak for everyone. i find the majority of the current rng (critting for example) quite welcome. assuming i actually get what i set out to craft, and the rng is completely extra im more than fine with it. i think your issue is more along the lines that you are expecting something that wasnt in the cards to begin with. to even be eligible for epic mats the mission has to be rich (yes, we know most of the grade 6 missions are labeled incorrectly, but check to see if the length+cost is higher and its not hard to figure out which is which).

 

Problem 2: Reverse Engineering

 

Again, we're forced to rely on chance, on a random number generator, to progress. Regardless of what they change this chance into, there will always be the possibility to never see that schematic upgrade.

 

On my 50 powertech, with biochem, I've thus far created more than 40 level 49 blue-quality implants, in an attempt to get a purple implant schematic for my alt. Out of nearly four dozen implants made, I've gotten ONE purple schematic, and it has stats that do not even benefit the class the implant is designed for (Honestly, why would you put shield rating on cunning-based items? The RNG is bad enough but this is just freaking retarded).

 

The entire reverse engineering system is 'fun' in THEORY, but when you put it to practice all it does is create frustration as you pour your resources into something that never gives you anything back.

 

they have already stated that this isnt working as originally intended. how they are choosing to fix it is something they havent revealed. personally i dont mind the re system so much because its better than just making the patterns 1% world drops and such. this system you can actually "work" on getting recipes and such while doing pretty much anything else.

 

 

Problem 3: Customization

 

Right now, there is ZERO room for customizing your crafted items. You cannot change what slots show up (barring, again, an RNG roll for a critical item with an augment slot), you cannot change the appearance of your crafted items, you have no control at all over the stats of the crafted item short of randomly reverse engineering a schematic with the proper stats you're looking for.

 

If there's no customization involved, why craft at all? There's no way for a crafter to 'stand out' at the moment, no way for someone to be recognized for making items of value. Think back to SWG's original crafting system - there were crafters that were known across their entire server - or multiple servers - for being exceptionally good at what they do. Here, every artificer is just like every other artificer, the most variation you'll ever see is if one of them does a world boss or a raid to get a schematic drop, and even then that item is still available to everyone else with minimal effort involved.

 

this isnt swg. crafting IS NOT a stand alone playstyle choice and i hope it never becomes one. as far as stats you can influence through re what the final item will look like based on what the base item is. the addition prefixes do nothing but add set stats (based on level). you can argue that prefixes are complete rng, but through enough money/time you will have it. your quip about being "known" or "standing out" is also pretty factless. i usually get a couple mails a day from people for specific gear. there is a market for orange gear, and people looking for specific things like augs that i sell at a premium to those looking.

 

Problem 4: No interaction

 

Getting your companions to slave over everything for you - to gather your materials, craft your items, go out on missions - it was cute at first, but it's a terrible design. It removes all interaction from the crafting game (other than reverse engineering, which is just a timesink anyways) - and that in turn removes the fun from it.

 

Crafting needs interaction, it needs control, it needs an interface which allows players to choose what they want and achieve that result. The current system does none of that.

 

this is a you problem, not a game one. i prefer companions doing things so i can have "fun" doing other things.

 

Solutions:

 

First off, get rid of companions creating items for us. I'm fine with sending my companions out on missions - but beyond that there is no way to implement the level of control needed for a good crafting system if your companions are making the items.

 

There are workbenches throughout the game that are no longer necessary because item modification can be done from any location now. Your crafting system mentions that specific workstations are still needed for making items, when they arent. We have a crafting station on our ship that our companions use, which could be easily altered into a player-usable station.

 

 

Activating a workbench (or the crafting station on your ship), should provide you with a crafting interface based on your current crafting skill (and since we can only have one crafting skill on a character, it shouldnt be a problem having the bench bring up a skill-specific interface). This interface should allow you to pick a type of item you want to craft, apply materials and enhancements to that item, and select a desired appearance for that item based on a list of patterns a player has learned.

 

 

I'll use artifice as a first example:

 

Step 1: Activate/right click on a workbench or your ship crafting station

 

Upon doing this, a window is brought up on your screen which shows a layout of the workbench surface, along with a list of buttons. For artifice, you'd see the following buttons:

Hilt

Enhancement

Lightsaber

Color Crystal

Relic

Focus/Shield Generator

 

You click on one of these items, and the workbench surface changes to the crafting layout for that item. We'll start with a hilt - On the left side of the window you'll see three empty square slots that you can drag and drop crafting materials into. In the middle of the window you'll see buttons corresponding to each material slot from the left. On the right side of the window, you'll see a slot that shows the final item.

 

You drag and drop a grade 6 green material into the top slot. The buttons next to it will allow you to select a primary stat for that material: willpower or strength. The amount of willpower or strength applied to the final hilt item will correspond to the level and quality of the material in that slot (green materials will give lower stat bonuses than blue, or purple).

 

For the other slots you get to choose other stats, based on the item you're making - you can pick something like critical rating or power. The third slot would be something like absorption, alacrity, or surge.

 

 

If you want to craft a lightsaber, the process would remain the same, but you'd have the ability to insert pre-made hilts/enhancements/mods/color crystals into that lightsaber during the crafting process. Items like weapons or armor would additionally give you the option of adding an augment slot by spending some extra purple-quality materials. On the right side of the window (past the item), you'd get a list of possible aesthetic appearances for the item, allowing you to choose what you want the lightsaber hilt to look like, or what you want the robes you're making to look like, so on and so forth.

 

 

 

This system would allow a player to directly control what stats an item has - you could make a strength + shield rating + surge rating hilt if you wanted, rather than the preset stats we have now. You wouldnt need to rely on RNG to decide what quality of item you can make, or whether or not an item has an augment slot - and most importantly of all you'd be able to craft gear with both the stats and appearance you're aiming for.

 

i dont like your solutions. with the sheer number of star wars fans who were in beta and lobbied relentlessly for essentially this very crafting system dont you think it was considered and rejected? i know that i personally would never touch it. i like most of the current system. there are issues with it but none of these are really it. issues run more toward itemization holes (according to a dev there is a companion for that cunning+shield item) and minor overall balancing between them really.

Edited February 24, 2012 by livnthedream

[TheMessy]

 

I'll use artifice as a first example:

 

Step 1: Activate/right click on a workbench or your ship crafting station

 

Upon doing this, a window is brought up on your screen which shows a layout of the workbench surface, along with a list of buttons. For artifice, you'd see the following buttons:

Hilt

Enhancement

Lightsaber

Color Crystal

Relic

Focus/Shield Generator

 

You click on one of these items, and the workbench surface changes to the crafting layout for that item. We'll start with a hilt - On the left side of the window you'll see three empty square slots that you can drag and drop crafting materials into. In the middle of the window you'll see buttons corresponding to each material slot from the left. On the right side of the window, you'll see a slot that shows the final item.

 

You drag and drop a grade 6 green material into the top slot. The buttons next to it will allow you to select a primary stat for that material: willpower or strength. The amount of willpower or strength applied to the final hilt item will correspond to the level and quality of the material in that slot (green materials will give lower stat bonuses than blue, or purple).

 

You obviously never played Everquest, this is the crafting system they had. It was the WORST crafting system ever created.

 

No one wants to sit at a freakin crafting table for ages putting things into slots, and hitting a button to make the item.

 

Terrible Terrible Terrible idea.

 

Now for the rest, I would love to be able to choose what my re-eng items are going to be. But having to go though an EQ style crafting system again would make my *********** brain explode.

Edited February 24, 2012 by TheMessy

[misterbeefy]

Nothing much to add, I just want to say I support this idea wholeheartedly.

[Overlord_Orcus]

You obviously never played Everquest, this is the crafting system they had. It was the WORST crafting system ever created.

 

No one wants to sit at a freakin crafting table for ages putting things into slots, and hitting a button to make the item.

 

Terrible Terrible Terrible idea.

 

Now for the rest, I would love to be able to choose what my re-eng items are going to be. But having to go though an EQ style crafting system again would make my *********** brain explode.

 

I just need to correct you. I believe what you are trying to say is the following:::

 

"You obviously never played Everquest, this is the crafting system they had. It is a good crafting system when handled correctly, but for those of us with attention defeceit disorder, WoW syndrome, CoD disease, or hollywood brainwashing it is the WORST crafting system to have.

 

We do not want to sit at a freakin crafting table for ages putting things into slots, and hitting a button to make the item. It requires actual effort, attention, and brain usage.

 

Terrible Terrible Terrible idea. Long live games that 5 year olds can play!

 

Now for the rest I would love to be able to choose what my re-eng items are going to be. But having to go through an EQ style crafting system would require me to actually use my brain.

[Battilea]

That would be EQ2, not EQ, by the way. EQ's was click and either succeed or fail, possibly get a skill up. And I liked EQ 2s crafting system, overall. Wasn't bad.

 

Personally, given the number of customers needed to support a single Crafter, I don't like it when games try to make crafting for everyone. And when they do things like slap personal benefits on it so that everyone feels like they have to do it...well, that I majorly disagree with. The hardcore have raids, silly time sink content, and so on and a lot of dev support goes into placating them, making balance changes due to what they do, and so on. Meanwhile, other segments, like those who would like to see progression through tough single group content are usually ignored. And crafting is another aspect that gets ruined by that. Rather than making it something good for a segment of the population, something the rest can happily just buy stuff from, it gets turned into a boring time sink that everyone does for a minor stat benefit.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Battilea

[malspeed]

It is not going to change, they can not even find time to fix RE rates. They do not care much if at all about crafting other than a check box for release. I base this on on the effort so far to address issues with it.

[tkmedia]

I think the biggest thing your not looking at from the get go is that BW is trying to make money. They won't make any money by alienating the 75% + casual players with an overly complex and time consuming crafting system. This isn't a game designed around building and crafting things, it's a game designed around PLAYING and fighting and questing and such. Crew skills are as much an afterthought as space battles are. They are fun, little things to do on the side that require little involvement. That is their entire purpose. If you really want to spend YOUR time slotting gear together for hours on end, I've got plenty of legos I can sell you.

 

Oh, and another point. What does your "system" do for low level crafters? I have to make 20 such and such just to learn some new schems to make 20 more this or thats. Do you seriously suggest having me sit in front of a crafting table while I make at minimum 400 pieces of junk just to get to the "fun" stuff?

[tkmedia]

It is not going to change, they can not even find time to fix RE rates. They do not care much if at all about crafting other than a check box for release. I base this on on the effort so far to address issues with it.

 

In a game less than 3 months old, side missions are the absolute bottom of the list as far as game fixes go. It was the same in every other properly done MMO, it's going to be the same here if they want TOR to stick around and be more than just another SW game.

[Stonewall_Jack]

I agree on one thing give crafters an option to create augment slots and one should be able to do it for any modable gear. Whether it is crafted gear or raid gear. This essentially makes all gear the same and one can customize however he/she feels like and more individual looks are created.

 

If we can remod gear to orange pieces but augments are not included as an additional optional the orange craftable items that have crit by chance will soon be the most wanted items as they can have the set bonus (remod change that was promised), but also still have an augment slot open.

 

Doing this opens up the augment market too. The extra economics this will create is your extra game interaction.

 

I do agree that the high randomness of the purple underworld materials is quite annoying, but you can increase your chances running the special missions. It just poor design that these mission are also very rare and expensive.

 

In my opinion time and costs should determine the outcome. If I spend more credits on a mission that should determine the outcome, more credits are gained by spending more time farming etc. The balance currently is way off.

 

Certain pieces and schematics are bound, we should be able to craft these pieces for anyone. Open up the market, people will eventually just shop for the modable stuff to collect multiple looks. I know I have done so already having several orange sets ready, but they will become obsolete versus the augmentable electrum greaves soon.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Stonewall_Jack

[psandak]

I just need to correct you. I believe what you are trying to say is the following:::

 

"You obviously never played Everquest, this is the crafting system they had. It is a good crafting system when handled correctly, but for those of us with attention defeceit disorder, WoW syndrome, CoD disease, or hollywood brainwashing it is the WORST crafting system to have.

 

We do not want to sit at a freakin crafting table for ages putting things into slots, and hitting a button to make the item. It requires actual effort, attention, and brain usage.

 

Terrible Terrible Terrible idea. Long live games that 5 year olds can play!

 

Now for the rest I would love to be able to choose what my re-eng items are going to be. But having to go through an EQ style crafting system would require me to actually use my brain.

 

I played EQ1 and WoW and now SWTOR. Honestly, EQ1 crafting did not require effort and attention - like EVERY other game with crafting all you needed was the right materials and time.

 

The differences between EQ1, WOW, and SWTOR are:

- In EQ1 you HAD to make a choice: Do I craft or do I try to find a group and go kill stuff?

- In WoW, since the advent of LFD, one could craft while waiting for a group.

- In SWTOR you can craft AND play the game at the same time

 

I am still too new in SWTOR to take full advantage of crafting, but in EQ1 and WoW I played the Bazaar/AH mini-game VERY well. I will tell you right now, that LOVE being able to play the game AND craft at the same time .

[daiddu]

"Nobody likes to rely on chance, that's been proven over the past 15 years of gaming, if not more. Chance is bad, RNG is bad, and being forced to rely on it in order to even be capable of crafting an item is honestly the most ridiculous system I've ever seen in MMO history"

 

Honestly I am not trolling but this is an RPG before we had them on computers we used "Dice" the original random number generator. I think I may even have a 20 year old D100 laying about here somewhere.

 

I actually like the sound of the system you suggest though.

 

that was the first thing I thought of when I read this post as well !! All D&D began it's roots on the chance based system. It's how the DM could determine if you would win the fight or if the cave troll would bash your head in. now that we are on computers, people just expect everything to work.

 

In reality, even high dollar factories have quality issues and scrappage. Intel has to scrap x% of wafers that don't meet spec. They don't complain about RNG.

 

I agree that it would be nice to be "guaranteed" that RE would result in a blueprint after so many tries. Perhaps its RNG for the first four where there is a 25% change to RE. On the 5th try you get the schematic. Or some other set of numbers to balance the chance vs. the aggravation of 30 fails....

[DawnAskham]

A couple of thoughts...

 

Missions:

 

Should allow selection of both the tier and the type (e.g. 1-12, metals or 49-50, gifts). No more zoning on and off ship to refresh list to get the type of mission needed.

 

Returns should be improved or material requirements reduced, especially for anything NOT end-game viable, which at this point would be almost everything.

 

Missions should have a very low chance to return any item needed to craft, including Biometeric Alloy. Again, very low chance.

 

Chance to crit / return better results should be more dependent on the players skill level and number of missions performed, not totally random / dependent on companion affection (e.g. at 400 skill level having run 1,000 missions, your chance to get better mats / higher returns would be better than someone at 380 having run 20 missions).

 

Crafting:

 

Should have more player involvement and control, not just queue up a bunch of companions and then log out, only to log back in later to review their output.

 

I don't have all the solutions, but I feel crafting should provide a player the means to improve their chance of obtaining better results (e.g. crit aug slots), a path to work towards a desired schematic, and ways to customize their produced goods.

 

I also believe a player should have the choice to craft something on their own at say their ship workstation, with more options and control, not just having it all 'click this schematic in the crew window and tasks it to this companion, wait an hour'.

 

Crafted items produced should be better than anything that can be obtain from simply doing dailies, and be close to par (with time / rare materials) with current tier items, with the possibility of a few item slots able to have crafting items as BIS or near BIS (with rare mats + a dedicated crafter).

 

At a minimum, players should be able to create items of equal to those available at the daily commendation vendors.

 

The best examples here would be armor mods, barrels, hilts, enhancements along with ears and implants. It is a total joke that the crafts that make these items cannot make items equal to what is obtained through mindless daily quests (excepting the rare crit crafted ears / implants that with the right stats, are sometime better for some classes).

 

I also believe that no crafted item, nor schematic, nor material should ever be BOP, unless they add some special and balanced items that are crafter use only as a perk for the profession. Just because a pattern or material drops in an operation or flash point shouldn't mean it cannot be traded with others.

Edited February 24, 2012 by DawnAskham

[jetah]

Problem 4: No interaction

 

Actually in the Preferences you can turn off the ability for your companion to gather for you. Or you can hold Shift and do it your self.

 

Personally I love that my companions actually do something for me. I have an apprentice for a reason and it isn't to just kill stuff for me.

 

Problem 3: Customization

 

Oranges are for customization. All of the greens I've seen had an Orange equivalent so far.

I don't craft for customization, i craft for stats.

 

 

Now some things I'd like to see is most of the schematic drops from OPS should have the items' BOP removed (save the tionese tier gear).

 

I've dealt with very complex crafting systems and they suck. I like quick simple craft system that I can get back to killing/missions/pvping/etc. I don't want to spend 4 hours with someone who cant decide if they want 5 power or 8 strength.

 

Personally, I like the system as it is. RE has that RNG so not everyone will have every RE possibility.

[Morvoldo]

I agree with most here as theres realy some good ideas But there never gona change it but with hardly no eefort on there part they could at least......

 

give us better chances to get an upgrade rather than making god knows how many to get either a blue or purple item as theres around 3 different types , but greens should take no effort to turn into blue items, blues to purples i can understand some effort but when your making say 14 green Hilts and still no blue then its taking the P..s

 

(aparrently 5th march there updating this but unsure by how much percentage)

 

give more chances of obtaining the Actuall mats we Want from missions skills and remove most of the companion gift missions (theres too damn many)

 

make it at least less than 30 minutes to create one damn item, at the moment it takes me 30 mins to make 1 orange purple color crystal (Tooo damn Long), missions skill time does anoy but can live with but when its crafting sooo Anoying.

 

but i do think they rushed the crafting and screwed it, asbeta was awsome, now live its ruined..in a way

Edited February 24, 2012 by Morvoldo

[Cylux]

Well crafting is more supplemental in this game, I recall that mastering crafting in SWG pretty much meant that all you did, and that your character was good at, was crafting - not the best fit for game where everyone's a hero who can fight off Sith Lords and Jedi Masters. I actually think the unique BoP craftable items that currently exist are probably a better path to follow in making crafting more relevant.

 

I mean, if you're grinding PVP/OPS/HM to earn BoP mats and schematics, having already put lots of effort into leveling your chosen crafting skill, then the end result of your labour should be to produce the best-bar-none items of that category in the game for your own personal use - slap a requires 'x' 400 restriction on said items to 'lock' players into the skill. Like the biochem reusables. If they're putting in the game-work by raiding/pvping like troopers, then you can't really argue that they haven't gone and earned it.

 

Won't create much of a market for crafted gear, but it will provide an incentive to pick something other than biochem for endgame.