Please! Nerf the imp agents "backstab" attack.

[Metalmac]

I'll scrap your Operative any day of the week!

 

/supersrsface

 

 

You did not even read my post did you. You read one line only and focused on it.

 

Go back and read the post again.

[Niaoru]

You did not even read my post did you. You read one line only and focused on it.

 

Go back and read the post again.

 

I read your post, and that's still the thing I want to focus on.

 

Thinking about those other things just makes me angry.

[QQRtWoQQ]

Stealth in general needs to be looked at.

i think its pretty crappy that players can stealth out of an attack and it ruins my cool down.

also garbage they can stealth and not be hit.

[Metalmac]

I read your post, and that's still the thing I want to focus on.

 

Thinking about those other things just makes me angry.

 

Then do the Scrapper a favor and get a Operatives to duel you can post the video.

 

Myself I have never killed any of the Operatives. I do not think I am that good.

 

But from the video of the fights I can see Operative can do everything faster then Scapper.

 

They are not a Mirror in the least. The animations prove it.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Metalmac

[Niaoru]

Stealth in general needs to be looked at.

i think its pretty crappy that players can stealth out of an attack and it ruins my cool down.

also garbage they can stealth and not be hit.

 

Yea, they do need to look at stealth. They need to change it so I'm not stuck in combat for 5 minutes just because some guy hit me once, then ran away to the opposite side of the map and hasn't died yet.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Niaoru

[vimm]

Was there any way you could get your points across without all the rage and vulgar language?

 

What vulgar language?

[AdmiralOnasi]

LIE LIE LIE!

 

Go get a Scrapper and a Operative and have them duel.

 

OPERATIVE CAN DO 3 TO 6 BACKSTABS IN THE TIME A SCRAPPER CAN DO 2 BACK BLAST.

 

The Backstab animation is quick and allows a Operative to always win a duel against the mirror class Scrapper.

 

And that is ONLY 1 ANIMATION!

 

Sabotage Charge is another example of favoritism as the Operative just flicks wrist and the mirror Scrapper is much slower and has to wait for the ANIMATIONS TO FINISH.

 

Oh then we have the stun Dirty Kick that can not be done on the run like Operative mirror version can.

 

Something needs to be leveled out as a MIRROR SHOULD BE A MIRROR.

 

Back Blast and Backstab are on 9 second cooldowns. Saying they can do 6 backstabs while I can do 2 BBs is complete BS.

[Metalmac]

Yea, they do need to look at stealth. They need to change it so I'm not stuck in combat for 5 minutes just because some guy hit me once, then ran away to the opposite side of the map and hasn't died yet.

 

Agreed. I have respawed in the room and stayed locked out of Stealth for the entire match.

[Aidank]

LIE LIE LIE!

 

Go get a Scrapper and a Operative and have them duel.

 

OPERATIVE CAN DO 3 TO 6 BACKSTABS IN THE TIME A SCRAPPER CAN DO 2 BACK BLAST.

 

The Backstab animation is quick and allows a Operative to always win a duel against the mirror class Scrapper.

 

And that is ONLY 1 ANIMATION!

 

Sabotage Charge is another example of favoritism as the Operative just flicks wrist and the mirror Scrapper is much slower and has to wait for the ANIMATIONS TO FINISH.

 

Oh then we have the stun Dirty Kick that can not be done on the run like Operative mirror version can.

 

Something needs to be leveled out as a MIRROR SHOULD BE A MIRROR.

 

The animation is different, but the GCD is independant of the animation.

 

Scoundrels can start another attack before the damage from back blast is shown, and IMO it's a HUGE advantage.

 

 

When I'm on my scoundrel I can sab charge > Back blast (or vanish -> shoot first) > sucker punch.

 

With buffs up, if they all crit, you're looking at 10k in burst damage within a gcd. For burst the animation delay from back blast is amazingly overpowered.

[j-cart]

Stealth in general needs to be looked at.

i think its pretty crappy that players can stealth out of an attack and it ruins my cool down.

also garbage they can stealth and not be hit.

 

AoE attacks will break a stealth character. Also Operatives have only two methods of stealth, one out of combat and one during combat. The cooldown for the during combat is 2 minutes, which is extremely long for a cooldown.

 

Also you should look into "Shifty-Eyed" if you are a Scrapper. Then you can go Operative/Assassin hunting.

 

As for the Scoundrel vs. Operative topic, it is a non-discussion. Gear > Skills. Operative end game is gimped on gear.

Edited February 25, 2012 by j-cart

[Metalmac]

Back Blast and Backstab are on 9 second cooldowns. Saying they can do 6 backstabs while I can do 2 BBs is complete BS.

 

You do not understand the word ANIMATIONS?

 

Go look at the animation of a Operative doing a Backstab and time it.

 

Go look at the animation of a Scrapper doing Backblast and time it.

 

Plain and simple after 4 Backstabs the Scrapper has done 2 Backblast.

 

Now add in Alacrity to the mix and you get 6 to 2. This is not rocket science.

[HoosierDuke]

l2p issue

 

operatives are hardly a threat, not many of them left either post nerf

 

I'll "l2p" elsewhere, as will many others

 

You pros can have this

[Natharon]

lol You don't have to wait for animations to finish, that is just silly bad gameplay right there.

 

Also I don't lose to operatives, ever, sorry.

 

Might be most of the good ones quit, might be the fact I know exactly how they are going to fight me and exactly what to do when they vanish, also I tend to know they can't kill me, no matter how hard they try, in 1 global cooldown.

 

Operative fighting me, I am attacking some guy, he attacks me, if I am low and waiting on cooldowns I die, if I have my cool downs I leave. Me fighting an operative, same exact thing.

 

First one to make a mistake or gets greedy tends to die, being impatient and going for a double opener, not clearing the bleed dot, or my personal favorite the operative that doesn't understand facing requirements so circles like crazy when you only need the back of the target once every 9s. I swear most spam that key and hope to get it off instead of using their sucker punch equivalent. Then they wonder why they died when they opened.

 

Heck sometimes, well lets be honest, most of the time with stealth classes, they are straight up so bad you can kill the guy you are fighting and turn around and kill them too.

[Grubfist]

Now add in Alacrity to the mix and you get 6 to 2. This is not rocket science.

 

Alacrity does not affect melee in any way.

 

All alacrity does is make channels and casts faster.

[Metalmac]

The animation is different, but the GCD is independant of the animation.

 

Scoundrels can start another attack before the damage from back blast is shown, and IMO it's a HUGE advantage.

 

 

When I'm on my scoundrel I can sab charge > Back blast (or vanish -> shoot first) > sucker punch.

 

With buffs up, if they all crit, you're looking at 10k in burst damage within a gcd. For burst the animation delay from back blast is amazingly overpowered.

 

Are you talking PVE or PVP?

 

Because in PVP your actions are mixed in with his and the lag of his affects yours.

 

This is how the game works it is not like PVE where it is one sided.

[AdmiralOnasi]

You do not understand the word ANIMATIONS?

 

Go look at the animation of a Operative doing a Backstab and time it.

 

Go look at the animation of a Scrapper doing Backblast and time it.

 

Plain and simple after 4 Backstabs the Scrapper has done 2 Backblast.

 

Now add in Alacrity to the mix and you get 6 to 2. This is not rocket science.

 

Do you not understand NINE SECOND COOLDOWN? You can't spam an ability that's on cooldown. The amount of "animations" that have the potential play out is irrelevant when an ability can't be used. This isn't the Project vs. Shock delay where one has travel time and the other is instant. The Operative animation is slightly faster, but the difference is negligible. And yes, I have played both classes, and Scoundrel from launch. This is much ado about nothing. The real problem is that Agents can stun on the run while Smugglers are rooted when they kick.

[Piriste]

Do you not understand NINE SECOND COOLDOWN? You can't spam an ability that's on cooldown. The amount of "animations" that have the potential play out is irrelevant when an ability can't be used. This isn't the Project vs. Shock delay where one has travel time and the other is instant. The Operative animation is slightly faster, but the difference is negligible. And yes, I have played both classes, and Scoundrel from launch. This is much ado about nothing. The real problem is that Agents can stun on the run while Smugglers are rooted when they kick.

 

Project travel time doesnt matter, as the damage is done when the spell is succesfully cast (if the damage was even succesful then ie. not vanishing with dodge or something). The animation of project is only visual. The character killed with project cant move and is just waiting for the project animation to finish.

 

The problem with Project is actually -minor-.

 

( And yes i've tested this )

[Metalmac]

Do you not understand NINE SECOND COOLDOWN? You can't spam an ability that's on cooldown. The amount of "animations" that have the potential play out is irrelevant when an ability can't be used. This isn't the Project vs. Shock delay where one has travel time and the other is instant. The Operative animation is slightly faster, but the difference is negligible. And yes, I have played both classes, and Scoundrel from launch. This is much ado about nothing. The real problem is that Agents can stun on the run while Smugglers are rooted when they kick.

 

Ok you play better them me.

 

So how the hell do you get any feedback on the fight or do you just button mash and hope for the best?

 

Because this is what people keep saying over and over just button mash with no feedback.

 

The animations are horrid in this game for feedback.

[AdmiralOnasi]

Project travel time doesnt matter, as the damage is done when the spell is succesfully cast (if the damage was even succesful then ie. not vanishing with dodge or something). The animation of project is only visual. The character killed with project cant move and is just waiting for the project animation to finish.

 

The problem with Project is actually -minor-.

 

( And yes i've tested this )

 

Anyone that's PvPed as a Jedi Consular can tell you about Hanging Rock Syndrome. When you see it like

you'll understand. If the classes are mirrored, the damage should be done at the same time.

[FalmeseReb]

LIE LIE LIE!

 

Go get a Scrapper and a Operative and have them duel.

 

OPERATIVE CAN DO 3 TO 6 BACKSTABS IN THE TIME A SCRAPPER CAN DO 2 BACK BLAST.

 

The Backstab animation is quick and allows a Operative to always win a duel against the mirror class Scrapper.

 

And that is ONLY 1 ANIMATION!

 

Sabotage Charge is another example of favoritism as the Operative just flicks wrist and the mirror Scrapper is much slower and has to wait for the ANIMATIONS TO FINISH.

 

Oh then we have the stun Dirty Kick that can not be done on the run like Operative mirror version can.

 

Something needs to be leveled out as a MIRROR SHOULD BE A MIRROR.

 

 

I have played both Operative and Scoundrel to 50. The skill sets are identical. There is a slightly longer animation on backblast, but it doesnt somehow make the cooldown longer lmao.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Wekeltes

[Grubfist]

Anyone that's PvPed as a Jedi Consular can tell you about Hanging Rock Syndrome. When you see it like

you'll understand. If the classes are mirrored, the damage should be done at the same time.

 

As someone who's played both a shadow and a sage in pvp at 50, I have to admit that the "floating rock" situation is EXTREMELY rare.

[Timadan]

Actually there is some difference between the op/scoundrel this,

 

The ops opener roots you in place so the op can continue to attack without further movement, the scound opener (shoot first) knocks the target on it's face slightly ahead of the scound, this requires a step forward to continue the attack.

 

Also I think though I'm not positive, so take it for what it's worth, acid blade is a faster animation than load fletchette round.

 

While not horribly imbalanced it does give the operative a slight advantage.

 

Both tend to run out of energy before the killing blow can be delivered unless they use the energy gain cool down.

 

On my scound I hunt healers in wz's, while I can not always take them out I can sure put enough pressure on them to stop them from healing while my team does work.

[Vales]

Why not just use DR instead?

 

Because DR is crap.

[Piriste]

Anyone that's PvPed as a Jedi Consular can tell you about Hanging Rock Syndrome. When you see it like

you'll understand. If the classes are mirrored, the damage should be done at the same time.

 

Yes, and that is just visual.

 

Go try it out, it's easy with a duel. Get your opponent low enough hp for him to be killed with a project. take some distance so you'll see the delay. tell him to be moving all the time (run in circles). What you will notice is that the instant you cast project the person moving will become immobile and just stand there waiting for the rock to hit him in the face.

[AdmiralOnasi]

Actually there is some difference between the op/scoundrel this,

 

The ops opener roots you in place so the op can continue to attack without further movement, the scound opener (shoot first) knocks the target on it's face slightly ahead of the scound, this requires a step forward to continue the attack.

 

Also I think though I'm not positive, so take it for what it's worth, acid blade is a faster animation than load fletchette round.

 

While not horribly imbalanced it does give the operative a slight advantage.

 

Both tend to run out of energy before the killing blow can be delivered unless they use the energy gain cool down.

 

On my scound I hunt healers in wz's, while I can not always take them out I can sure put enough pressure on them to stop them from healing while my team does work.

 

The animations for Flechette Round and Acid Blade are purely cosmetic. You get the buff as soon as you activate the ability. When Scrapper was still viable in PvE (thanks for the unnecessary FR nerf btw) I would activate FR and then immediately Back Blast well before the animation finished.