Darth Maul isn't dead!?!?!?!?!

[Ruliya]

You are all playing a game that takes place in the Star Wars Universe.

That kind of destroys the idea of "If it does not happen in the movies, it didn't happen"..

 

But ya, the easy way to keep them separate is the "Movies" vs. "Expanded Universe". In the expanded universe Darth Maul lived. In the expanded universe Bobba Fett was saved from the Sarlaac. In the E.U. Leia becomes the Jedi she is supposed to become. and Luke has a story beyond Endor. You kind of have to accept the Expanded Universe if you believe that any of the characters you know and love did anything not shown on screen.

 

ps. Its kind of funny though because there is at least one contradiction between the two. In the movies, Luke was born first, in the books it was Leia. In this case the movies win.

 

I'm all for EU tbh, I loved reading the Dark Horse Comic series' and enjoy a lot of the books I've read. I generally don't get bogged down in the cannon argument. To me it's all one enjoyable story. I don't care if EU Luke can do this, compared to Movie Luke, or what have you, it's all fun to me.

 

As to the being born first thing, was the book written before the movie came out? Because chances are Lucas won't have read it. Unless of course you are referring to the novelization, in which case, I have no idea what went on there

[Toonimator]

Not sure if this has been said but

 

Did anyone else read the comic where Cyborg Maul went after Luke on Tatooine years Later, and Obi-Wan kicks his arse, before he gets a Blaster to the skull, from Uncle Owen?? you just know that means he has to survive the Clone Wars...

 

EU and all that.

I removed the spoilers, because there's no need. That story, "Old Wounds", is from the Visionaries anthology, which was basically ILM artists doing a bunch of stories. They're all basically non-canon, considered to be Infinities, perhaps with a couple exceptions. "Old Wounds" is NOT one of those exceptions.

 

Besides, the story was kinda 'meh'. Maul's narration has him tracking Obi-Wan across the galaxy all the years since the Battle of Naboo. And he's always ONE STEP BEHIND HIM, literally by hours or a few days. And he also pretty much only hits movie planets when he 'just misses' Obi-Wan. I think he tracks him to Kamino, then Geonosis, but then NOTHING for 3 years until the war's nearly over and either just misses him at Utapau or at Mustafar and Polis Massa. Then he loses him for a few years, and tracks him down to Tatooine where Uncle Owen shoots him.

 

Anyway, bottom line is "Old Wounds" is Infinities at best, which means it's just a "What If...?"

[Ruliya]

I removed the spoilers, because there's no need. That story, "Old Wounds", is from the Visionaries anthology, which was basically ILM artists doing a bunch of stories. They're all basically non-canon, considered to be Infinities, perhaps with a couple exceptions. "Old Wounds" is NOT one of those exceptions.

 

Besides, the story was kinda 'meh'. Maul's narration has him tracking Obi-Wan across the galaxy all the years since the Battle of Naboo. And he's always ONE STEP BEHIND HIM, literally by hours or a few days. And he also pretty much only hits movie planets when he 'just misses' Obi-Wan. I think he tracks him to Kamino, then Geonosis, but then NOTHING for 3 years until the war's nearly over and either just misses him at Utapau or at Mustafar and Polis Massa. Then he loses him for a few years, and tracks him down to Tatooine where Uncle Owen shoots him.

 

Anyway, bottom line is "Old Wounds" is Infinities at best, which means it's just a "What If...?"

 

Ah okay, I don't keep up in the overall Cannon situation xD I just love the stories I read. So I see what your getting at. I just heard he had new cybernetic legs and instantly thought of that comic, you know? Now I can't wait to watch the episode ^^

[NobodyParticular]

As to the being born first thing, was the book written before the movie came out? Because chances are Lucas won't have read it. Unless of course you are referring to the novelization, in which case, I have no idea what went on there

 

It is the novelization. =) At the time it came out I worked Rebel Base in Disneyland (the small portion of the Star Trader just at the bottom of the ramp from Star Tours) so we had lots of Star Wars geek conversations there, it was awesome. I miss that =(

But it was a very cool time to work there.

[BrandonSM]

After watching trailers and the new episode. I don't think were dealing with the same Maul we saw in TPM. I think they brought him back but he is insane, consumed by the Dark Side maybe?

[Mecblade]

its because star wars ran out of good ideas a very long time ago.

 

really? seems like the idea to make this game wasn't a bad idea? Or did they simple think of it back when they were still having good ideas?

[RixoFutu]

He could survive thanks to the dark side. For example Darth Sion held together (literally) only thanks to the dark side.

[JDTC]

really? seems like the idea to make this game wasn't a bad idea? Or did they simple think of it back when they were still having good ideas?

 

this game is not a very good example, because this game isnt very star wasty. its an MMO and feels more like World of Mass Effect than star wars. its a fun game and i totally love it but lets not pretend that it feels like a star wars game.

 

besides this game itself isnt a "star wars idea" - the content of the game would be what i was referring to when i said SW ran out of ideas.

Edited February 25, 2012 by JDTC

[Skyphaser]

For a force user and lightsaber wound it wouln't seem that implausible.

Grievous was never a force-user. -_-

[MrZerex]

OP here again.

 

Really appreciate all the feedback and comments and such.

 

I have a new question.

 

If you could would you rewrite how Darth Maul dies/survives.

 

and Why

 

THX

[Aedey]

really? seems like the idea to make this game wasn't a bad idea? Or did they simple think of it back when they were still having good ideas?

 

That & this game has been in production for a very very very long time. So yeah this was probably in the "good idea" time period.

[Nucairion]

if u look at wikidarth maul survived being cut in half by obi won and his upper haf was recovered he was they fitted with machine parts much like general grevious. then after his aactual death some people on dathomir used his brain somehow and kept him in a statis as a thinking entity or something like that. just read wiki if u want the how and wot happened

[MustrumRidcully]

He created clones of himself and began to occupy one after his physical body was destroyed. Then there was something about some fat Jedi Knight with a hoverboard sacrificing himself to get rid of him... ah, the essential is that he had to be 'killed' twice more after his apparent 'death' in the movies. Classic comic book crap tbh.*

 

*I don't hate comic books, for the record. Just dislike some conventions that come with it.

 

I really loved the Zahn novels. I also read one of those Emperor returns comic books. I thought "Oh, well, it's a comic book, who cares". Only later did I realize that in the EU, both things actually happened by "canon laws" for Star Wars. Really, really weak and bad.

 

I like a lot about Star Wars, but quality control is definitely lacking. I kinda prefer the Startrek approach (at least at the time) - no books were canon, they all stood on their own, unless maybe an author wanted to connect stories. It seems that policy has changed recently, and going by what I read about the Destiny (?) novels that depict a Borg invasion and explain their origins - it was a bad idea for SW, and it was a bad idea for ST.

 

Making even the weakest comic book or novel part of your "canon" is just a bad idea. If I were a SW writer, I want to ignore the Sidious return at all cost, as it invalidates the impact of the original trilogy. I don't really get why the writers of the book and the people at Lucas Arts couldn't get that? Maybe because of the mony it would make them?

Edited February 26, 2012 by MustrumRidcully

[Wolfninjajedi]

I really loved the Zahn novels. I also read one of those Emperor returns comic books. I thought "Oh, well, it's a comic book, who cares". Only later did I realize that in the EU, both things actually happened by "canon laws" for Star Wars. Really, really weak and bad.

 

I like a lot about Star Wars, but quality control is definitely lacking. I kinda prefer the Startrek approach (at least at the time) - no books were canon, they all stood on their own, unless maybe an author wanted to connect stories. It seems that policy has changed recently, and going by what I read about the Destiny (?) novels that depict a Borg invasion and explain their origins - it was a bad idea for SW, and it was a bad idea for ST.

 

Making even the weakest comic book or novel part of your "canon" is just a bad idea. If I were a SW writer, I want to ignore the Sidious return at all cost, as it invalidates the impact of the original trilogy. I don't really get why the writers of the book and the people at Lucas Arts couldn't get that? Maybe because of the mony it would make them?

 

They kinda did....the EU is a seperate universe, if you just go by just the six movies anyway.

[MustrumRidcully]

They kinda did....the EU is a seperate universe, if you just go by just the six movies anyway.

 

Not quite. I like some EU novels. But not like all. I would prefer if an author was more easily able to ignore nonsense (IMO, of course, I am sure there are people that liked that arc as well) like Palpatine's return, but say, keep Karrde and Mara Jade along.

 

Maybe they should have just put comic book canon seperate as well, but this only really covers one particular topic. I think the Yuhzan Vong lack a solid Star Wars feeling as well, though they also had some very interesting elements. Enough at least to convince me to read the story to its end, even though I was on the verge of abandoning it occasionally.

 

I prefer a little more... malleable EU.

[Jedlosson]

Many people will always tell you about "canon laws" and other things...

 

I say that concidering SW is a fiction, it is only as true as you want it to be. I personally do not give a damn about canon laws, nobody asked me about my opinion while making them - just a bunch of kids who happened to be fans of SW thought it might be a good idea to bring strict order into what is supposed fun... If I want strict order, I go learn physics, chemistry or biology and do not waste my time in fiction.

 

In my opinion, fiction is supposed to be fun - if it is fun for you to learn bunch of fictional data and argue about them with other people, by all means, go ahead and do it. Most people however see SW as a large number of stories - some really good, some really bad - I prefer to select the ones that I like and take them as my own "canon".

 

To sum things up: If you want him to be alive, concider him to be alive. For me, Darth Maul was killed by Obi-Wan.

[Ridisi]

Wasn't the only thing Maul ever did... ehm... puh... well... he was red!... and.. had a doublebladed LS... aaaand... yeah... so, why is he actually that popular?

 

The expanded universe fleshes out his story quite a bit.

[Zhauric]

Someone may have said it and quite honestly I'm just throwing out a theory though not even sure I believe myself *laughs*.

 

Any case, we have seen people live with only the upper half of their body in our own world. So since lightsabers basically cauterize such a wound could it not be feesible with the threat of dying from loss of blood (and spilled organs everywhere) could Maul survive along with nurturing the hate he is feeding off of?

 

Eh, who knows. Though I was like a lot of other people and went WT....

[Stercogburn]

How much better would the prequel trilogy be if Darth Maul had lived and Jar Jar had died (or better, not existed).

 

Have Maul become a full-fledged nasty rather than apprentice in the second movie, at the end of which Anakin becomes his apprentice in secret, set the stage for all kinds of fun nastiness in the third. Would also give a chance to compare differences in philosophy between Sith and Jedi if he was being trained by two masters.

[Stelakh]

Wasn't the only thing Maul ever did... ehm... puh... well... he was red!... and.. had a doublebladed LS... aaaand... yeah... so, why is he actually that popular?

 

Exactly my thoughts.

 

He didn't do anything, really. What, he rode a space motorcycle around Tatooine, appeared in a short hologram, standing behind the Emperor with his arms folded when the Emperor was talking to Viceroy Burnt Marshmallow, and had a double-bladed lightsabre.

 

I mean, what was the POINT of Darth Maul other than to have a high-energy yet pointless lightsabre fight in the weird room on Naboo-boo?

 

It's the same kind of thing as Boba Fett's popularity (even before the prequels).

 

Why did these two characters become so popular? I really don't get it.

 

Can someone please explain it? (Seriously.)

[Zhauric]

I mean, what was the POINT of Darth Maul other than to have a high-energy yet pointless lightsabre fight in the weird room on Naboo-boo?

 

It's the same kind of thing as Boba Fett's popularity (even before the prequels).

 

Why did these two characters become so popular? I really don't get it.

 

Can someone please explain it? (Seriously.)

 

Well I believe the point of his presence was proof that the Sith had returned so he definitely had a point being in the movie. While it revealed the Sith had returned it kept the shadow around the Master still unknown.

 

But as for in answer to the question why is he so popular? I have no clue *laughs* I thought the same as you including the thoughts of Fett. My best thought is the fight sequence. Let's face it. No matter what anyone thinks about the prequels the fights were much better (for obvious reasons seeing when they were filmed) than in the originals. Plus the double bladed weapon that had not been seen before is all I can surmise.

 

And maybe also he just looked the part? *shrugs*

[Stelakh]

Well I believe the point of his presence was proof that the Sith had returned so he definitely had a point being in the movie. While it revealed the Sith had returned it kept the shadow around the Master still unknown.

 

But as for in answer to the question why is he so popular? I have no clue *laughs* I thought the same as you including the thoughts of Fett. My best thought is the fight sequence. Let's face it. No matter what anyone thinks about the prequels the fights were much better (for obvious reasons seeing when they were filmed) than in the originals. Plus the double bladed weapon that had not been seen before is all I can surmise.

 

And maybe also he just looked the part? *shrugs*

 

Honestly? I think the prequel fights were cool looking, but were far inferior to any of the OT fights.

 

The reason is what they were about.

 

The Qui Gon Hippie and Augie Ben Doggie vs Darth Maul fight of was about... overly-choreographed fighting that was cold, sterile and had no point.

 

The Vader vs. Kenobi fight of ANH was about sacrifice. Obi-Wan Kenobi sacrificed himself for the good of the rest. In doing so, he taught Luke an important lesson about what it means to have morals and faith.

 

As for AotC, I actually had to stop and think because I couldn't remember any lightsabre fights, and then I remembered it was the one with Yoda and Count Bowelmovement. It was teacher and student again - but was about showing two things: (1) Yoda can kick *** if he wants to and, (2) Stopping Count IrritableBowel from getting on his shuttle. There really was no deeper meaning.

 

In ESB, we have a lightsabre duel that starts off on the wrong foot - a Jedi apprentice goes to Bespin to fight the person he believes killed his father. That's revenge, right there. But, as it turns out, it becomes a fight about the struggles between father and son - before we even know it. Ultimately, it is again about making a moral choice and sacrifice. Luke is willing to sacrifice himself for the Light Side, and to ensure that the Dark Side doesn't become more powerful by turning him.

 

Moving on to RotS, we have two things going on. Yoda fights Emperor Pamplemousse, and Anakin fights Obi-Wan.

 

Yoda and Emperor Papmpersdry are fighting because... Yoda was so stupid he went to face the Sith Lord alone when almost all of the other Jedi have been wiped out, so he's just trying to join them? It was a stupid idea - just so we could see Yoda fight again. There wasn't really any other point than that. The smart thing to do (and Yoda is supposed to be incredibly wise, remember), would have been to go into exile with what Jedi were left and begin forming a strategy to take the Emperor down in a more organized manner. All Yoda did was run the very serious risk of being killed or captured by going alone (another huge, glaring, unbelievable plot hole, incidentally).

 

Obi-Wan and Anakin. It had to happen. We knew it had to happen. From what I've been told, it's been part of the Darth Vader backstory from the beginning. But the execution of the fight is such that it doesn't hold any meaning. It's just two guys slugging it out in a quest to be the last one standing (and or NOT burning). They've already made their moral choices long before we got here. The way the story's written, the fight had to happen just so it happens. The only reason for there to be a fight is to get Anakin roasted so he can become Darth vader. That's a pretty big reason, but there's no depth to it.

 

Finally, RotJ. The battle between father and son. The internal moral struggle for Luke to remain good. The internal moral struggle for Vader to turn from evil. The realization that Luke is traveling down the same path as his father, but coming to that conclusion before he is consumed by the Dark Side. And finally, in the end, the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. That's what the RotJ fight was about.

 

Also, while not fight-related, I'm going to lay down the trump card. None of the OT films included Jar-Jar or Watto.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Stelakh

[ZionHalcyon]

-Err, dude, the books of Karen Traviss were one of the most hated books in the Star Wars fandom. It's actually weird that there are people that still call her books "great".

 

-They didn't add any impossible characters and it makes sense that Anakin wouldn't reference her in ROTS because there was so much going on in the movie.

 

-He's in the series alright, but he isn't as annoying and for the most part, he's kept to a minimum.

 

-You need to give a few examples of it being "cheesy".

 

-The reason why the Kaminoans are recruiting clones to be ARC troopers is because the ARC troopers that do die need to be replaced.

 

OMG, I know, right? Only things worse than her books were the ones written by Barbera Hambly and anything written by Kevin J Anderson that wasn't centered around the Solo kids.

[ZionHalcyon]

Honestly? I think the prequel fights were cool looking, but were far inferior to any of the OT fights.

 

The reason is what they were about.

 

The Qui Gon Hippie and Augie Ben Doggie vs Darth Maul fight of was about... overly-choreographed fighting that was cold, sterile and had no point.

 

The Vader vs. Kenobi fight of ANH was about sacrifice. Obi-Wan Kenobi sacrificed himself for the good of the rest. In doing so, he taught Luke an important lesson about what it means to have morals and faith.

 

As for AotC, I actually had to stop and think because I couldn't remember any lightsabre fights, and then I remembered it was the one with Yoda and Count Bowelmovement. It was teacher and student again - but was about showing two things: (1) Yoda can kick *** if he wants to and, (2) Stopping Count IrritableBowel from getting on his shuttle. There really was no deeper meaning.

 

In ESB, we have a lightsabre duel that starts off on the wrong foot - a Jedi apprentice goes to Bespin to fight the person he believes killed his father. That's revenge, right there. But, as it turns out, it becomes a fight about the struggles between father and son - before we even know it. Ultimately, it is again about making a moral choice and sacrifice. Luke is willing to sacrifice himself for the Light Side, and to ensure that the Dark Side doesn't become more powerful by turning him.

 

Moving on to RotS, we have two things going on. Yoda fights Emperor Pamplemousse, and Anakin fights Obi-Wan.

 

Yoda and Emperor Papmpersdry are fighting because... Yoda was so stupid he went to face the Sith Lord alone when almost all of the other Jedi have been wiped out, so he's just trying to join them? It was a stupid idea - just so we could see Yoda fight again. There wasn't really any other point than that. The smart thing to do (and Yoda is supposed to be incredibly wise, remember), would have been to go into exile with what Jedi were left and begin forming a strategy to take the Emperor down in a more organized manner. All Yoda did was run the very serious risk of being killed or captured by going alone (another huge, glaring, unbelievable plot hole, incidentally).

 

Obi-Wan and Anakin. It had to happen. We knew it had to happen. From what I've been told, it's been part of the Darth Vader backstory from the beginning. But the execution of the fight is such that it doesn't hold any meaning. It's just two guys slugging it out in a quest to be the last one standing (and or NOT burning). They've already made their moral choices long before we got here. The way the story's written, the fight had to happen just so it happens. The only reason for there to be a fight is to get Anakin roasted so he can become Darth vader. That's a pretty big reason, but there's no depth to it.

 

Finally, RotJ. The battle between father and son. The internal moral struggle for Luke to remain good. The internal moral struggle for Vader to turn from evil. The realization that Luke is traveling down the same path as his father, but coming to that conclusion before he is consumed by the Dark Side. And finally, in the end, the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. That's what the RotJ fight was about.

 

Also, while not fight-related, I'm going to lay down the trump card. None of the OT films included Jar-Jar or Watto.

 

You really are being overly ridiculous and jaded. Obi-Wan and Anakin didn't hold any meaning? Seriously? You had me up until then but then your biased hate took over. That was one of the most emotional scenes of the trilogy, filled with deeper meaning by the setting (lakes and rivers of fire) and words (don't do it Anakin - I have the high ground - think of that from a moral perspective).

 

Your point would have held greater truth to it had you given the Obi-Ani prequel fight its due.

[NasherUK]

I have to admit though, some of the clone wars cartoon episides are pretty good. Especially the Cad Bane ones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufK_OtKQjmw