CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The current system is just awful. Just did my very first operation in this game. Never seen a loot system this bad before. Allow normal mode groups to use master looter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 no. do content that isnt designed to be pugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 no. do content that isnt designed to be pugged. I shouldn't required to have a set raid group in order to bypass a poorly designed loot distribution system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeawiNobal Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 After the first few moments of a flashpoint you will have the option of looting things. If the other members of your group are playing by the rules (need, greed, disassemble) then just leave the group high and dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I shouldn't required to have a set raid group in order to bypass a poorly designed loot distribution system. its not poorly designed though. its really not much different than lfr in wow. if you want total control run the content on "normal" instead of "easy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I never used LFR in WoW. It is poorly designed. Two bounty hunters in group. Columi boots drop, I'm already wearing them, he isn't. They are arbitrarily assigned to me. If we were using master looter he would have columi boots now and that token wouldn't have been wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I never used LFR in WoW. It is poorly designed. Two bounty hunters in group. Columi boots drop, I'm already wearing them, he isn't. They are arbitrarily assigned to me. If we were using master looter he would have columi boots now and that token wouldn't have been wasted. they werent wasted though. you have companions, or you can save them to rip the mods out. you choose to run content that is designed to be pugged, then you deal with the loot system. there is very little reason to be running normal modes unless you are merely there to see the content. you can easily outgear them in 1-2 days, often with spending very little to no credits. hardmode in swtor is fairly equal to normal mode in wow. you want to control the loot, then run it in a way that is intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 they werent wasted though. you have companions, or you can save them to rip the mods out. you choose to run content that is designed to be pugged, then you deal with the loot system. there is very little reason to be running normal modes unless you are merely there to see the content. you can easily outgear them in 1-2 days, often with spending very little to no credits. hardmode in swtor is fairly equal to normal mode in wow. you want to control the loot, then run it in a way that is intended. Please. Those boots definitely were wasted. What purpose do companions serve at level 50 aside from crew missions? Aside from that every piece of gear at 50 has its own mods so I have no use for those mods. The reasoning that puggable content should have a ****** loot system is ridiculous. So what if I'm pugging. I shouldn't have to deal with a horrible loot distribution system just because I don't want to dedicate myself to a raiding guild. I play with two other guys, we pug people for raids. That doesn't mean we should be punished for it. Whether I should or should not be doing hard modes is of little concern to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foenixz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) The current system is just awful. Just did my very first operation in this game. Never seen a loot system this bad before. Allow normal mode groups to use master looter. Every time someone like you comes along who says this; you are shooting yourself in the foot. The community decided they want it this way NOT the devs. As a concern to prevent ninja looting in pugs we were asked what cold be done to stop it. So thanks for insulting us. Just gear up to get to HMS and do a search on the topic. beforr you insult the majority here anymore. Edited February 21, 2012 by Foenixz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchero Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 After the first few moments of a flashpoint you will have the option of looting things. If the other members of your group are playing by the rules (need, greed, disassemble) then just leave the group high and dry. I guess you are not aware that in "normal mode" operations there is no "need / greed" pop-up window. Your assigned gear with no way to pass on stuff you already have. Absolutely no reason I can possibly think of to not allow a person to "pass" on loot they don't want and allow it to go to another person that actually does want the loot. Pisses me off so much that I have pretty much stopped running normal modes Ops cause I don't like taking gear away from other players that can use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Every time someone like you comes along who says this; you are shooting yourself in the foot. The community decided they want it this way NOT the devs. As a concern to prevent ninja looting in pugs we were asked what cold be done to stop it. So thanks for insulting us. Just gear up to get to HMS and do a search on the topic. beforr you insult the majority here anymore. I don't care who came up with the idea. It's awful and the people who voted for this should feel bad. It needs to be changed to allow master looter for normal raids. If you don't want to run with a master looter group cause you're afraid of ninjas fine, but the rest of us would like to be able to give loot to people who need it not the guy who already has 3 pairs of the same boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foenixz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I guess you are not aware that in "normal mode" operations there is no "need / greed" pop-up window. Your assigned gear with no way to pass on stuff you already have. Absolutely no reason I can possibly think of to not allow a person to "pass" on loot they don't want and allow it to go to another person that actually does want the loot. Pisses me off so much that I have pretty much stopped running normal modes Ops cause I don't like taking gear away from other players that can use it. YOUR snotty attitude not withstanding; he does know how it works. I don't care who came up with the idea. It's awful and the people who voted for this should feel bad. It needs to be changed to allow master looter for normal raids. If you don't want to run with a master looter group cause you're afraid of ninjas fine, but the rest of us would like to be able to give loot to people who need it not the guy who already has 3 pairs of the same boots. You want it your way and you want it now. <sigh> I do not feel bad for it in anyway. Once again just gear up and get to HMs. And before you start whining about master looter and the bugs there please read the forums a little more. Edited February 21, 2012 by Foenixz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Once again just gear up and get to HMs. And before you start whining about master looter and the bugs there please read the forums a little more. Again whether or not I should be doing HMs isn't relevant to this discussion. This discussion is about how terrible the loot system is for NORMAL MODE OPERATIONS and how it should be changed to master looter. Pugs shouldn't be punished with a terrible loot system based purely on the fact that they are pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabix Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Pugs are not being 'punished', they're being given a -really- easy way to get columi pieces and epic crafting mats With the tradeoff being that if 7/8 are fully geared and 1/8 isn't, that 1 person doesn't instantly get 5/5 columi + belt, bracers, relics and weapons for 1 run that they can sleepwalk through. They have to deal with RNG, unless they want to move up to hard mode. And i fail to see how a supposedly geared player such as yourself hasn't realized that columi/rakata pieces are, for the most part, badly itemized, and getting extra columi pieces to replace some of the bewildering mods and enhancements, especially on rakata pieces, is a necessity rather than a punishment. 'O NOES I GOT COLUMI PIECE THAT I ALREADY HAD, WHAT GOD HAVE I ANGERED TO MAKE IT SO?' Normal mode ops could just go away entirely, then there would be nothing to complain about instead of 'how the hard mode is too hard to be pugged' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Pugs are not being 'punished', they're being given a -really- easy way to get columi pieces and epic crafting mats With the tradeoff being that if 7/8 are fully geared and 1/8 isn't, that 1 person doesn't instantly get 5/5 columi + belt, bracers, relics and weapons for 1 run that they can sleepwalk through. They have to deal with RNG, unless they want to move up to hard mode. And i fail to see how a supposedly geared player such as yourself hasn't realized that columi/rakata pieces are, for the most part, badly itemized, and getting extra columi pieces to replace some of the bewildering mods and enhancements, especially on rakata pieces, is a necessity rather than a punishment. 'O NOES I GOT COLUMI PIECE THAT I ALREADY HAD, WHAT GOD HAVE I ANGERED TO MAKE IT SO?' Normal mode ops could just go away entirely, then there would be nothing to complain about instead of 'how the hard mode is too hard to be pugged' They definitely are being punished in that they have no control over their loot drops. I really don't understand how anyone can defend this loot system, it's one of the worst I've seen. I mean even in FPs and hard mode FPs at least there is a need/greed/pass system where a guy can pass if he already has something and doesn't need it. So you finish hardmodes and step up to normal mode raids. They degrade the loot system so that you no longer even have that miniscule amount of control that need/greed/pass gives you. Instead you're randomed a piece of loot that you may or may not need/already have. Meanwhile the guy who could have used it gets nothing. Or because I'm a BH they give me DPS heavy gear with aim on it even though I'm a healer and that is useless to me, meanwhile our Arsenal Merc is looking at it with hungry eyes. It's mind-blowing that this is the system for raids. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though cause orbital stations made into the live game as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 They definitely are being punished in that they have no control over their loot drops. I really don't understand how anyone can defend this loot system, it's one of the worst I've seen. I mean even in FPs and hard mode FPs at least there is a need/greed/pass system where a guy can pass if he already has something and doesn't need it. So you finish hardmodes and step up to normal mode raids. They degrade the loot system so that you no longer even have that miniscule amount of control that need/greed/pass gives you. Instead you're randomed a piece of loot that you may or may not need/already have. Meanwhile the guy who could have used it gets nothing. Or because I'm a BH they give me DPS heavy gear with aim on it even though I'm a healer and that is useless to me, meanwhile our Arsenal Merc is looking at it with hungry eyes. It's mind-blowing that this is the system for raids. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though cause orbital stations made into the live game as well. ah there is your problem. "normal" mode raids are a step below hm flashpoints. also how you are talking about gear makes me seriously question wether you are actually qualified to comment on how terrible a loot system is or not. frankly, if you want to control who gets what, then run it on a harder difficulty setting. facerolling through it with a couple buddies to gear out newbies in single runs is not only not intended, but foolish for bioware to incorporate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CogitoErgo Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 ah there is your problem. "normal" mode raids are a step below hm flashpoints. also how you are talking about gear makes me seriously question wether you are actually qualified to comment on how terrible a loot system is or not. frankly, if you want to control who gets what, then run it on a harder difficulty setting. facerolling through it with a couple buddies to gear out newbies in single runs is not only not intended, but foolish for bioware to incorporate. For like the 5th time, this thread isn't about hard mode ops, it's about normal mode. Telling me to run HM if I want master looter isn't an acceptable solution to this problem. I'm probably not going to run hardmodes. I don't see the point in it, but that's neither here nor there. I don't agree that normal mode raids are a step down in difficulty from HM FPs. HM BT can be rolled without stopping in 15 mins. But even if they are, that doesn't justify a WORSE loot system in a RAID than in a 4man FP. What qualifications are needed to state the obvious? The FP loot system allows you control, you move on to raids and that control is stripped and you're given random useless loot when someone else could use it. It isn't rocket science. If gearing people in normal isn't intended then it shouldn't be puggable. Again that's neither here nor there. But because they decided to implement normal mode and make it puggable, they should have also implemented a loot system that makes sense for raiding and not a completely random system based on RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livnthedream Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 For like the 5th time, this thread isn't about hard mode ops, it's about normal mode. Telling me to run HM if I want master looter isn't an acceptable solution to this problem. I'm probably not going to run hardmodes. I don't see the point in it, but that's neither here nor there. so i take it you dont run hm flash points either right? I don't agree that normal mode raids are a step down in difficulty from HM FPs. HM BT can be rolled without stopping in 15 mins. But even if they are, that doesn't justify a WORSE loot system in a RAID than in a 4man FP. you can disagree all you want but the barrier to entry is much lower for "normal" mode ops than it is for hm flashpoints. basing all of the flashpoints off from bt is a horrendous mistake on your part. as a healer alone you should relize you really dont need one for the vast majority of the place. even without amazing gear. What qualifications are needed to state the obvious? The FP loot system allows you control, you move on to raids and that control is stripped and you're given random useless loot when someone else could use it. It isn't rocket science. the basic qualifications that you know enough about basic game mechanics (like knowing that your main stat is kinda super important for you, and that there really isnt "dps" and "healing" gear. If gearing people in normal isn't intended then it shouldn't be puggable. Again that's neither here nor there. But because they decided to implement normal mode and make it puggable, they should have also implemented a loot system that makes sense for raiding and not a completely random system based on RNG. normal modes were designed with the intent that you can ding 50 and walk into a raid. even in basic 124 modded orange gear you "outgear" the place. it has no punishing mechanics and in general is there so players of virtually any stripe can say "hey, i ran that!". to enable masterlooter they would have to substantially reduce the amount of drops, aswell as then have to deal with the communities reaction to loot and scoot, general "ninja" douchebaggery etc. this debate was held in beta and for THIS mode they chose to leave it to pugs, since frankly its designed for them. the reason hardmode keeps getting brought up is it solves every single gripe you have, without creating more problems. as it currently stands there is no real wasted loot. virtually everything you get can be handed to a companion, or you can rip the mods out to fix the itemization in your other slots, or you can save for 1.2 when they truly fix the mod system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEDMON Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We should create a petition to have this loot system revised immediately. It is a horrible system that kills the incentive of raiding guilds and progressive guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoffs Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Every time someone like you comes along who says this; you are shooting yourself in the foot. The community decided they want it this way NOT the devs. As a concern to prevent ninja looting in pugs we were asked what cold be done to stop it. So thanks for insulting us. Just gear up to get to HMS and do a search on the topic. beforr you insult the majority here anymore. It seems to me that the majority of people posting in threads like this actually want a change. Just about every time there is a thread complaining about this, you post that the 'community' made this decision. Who was the community back then? People that had not experienced the looting frustration of the current normal mode ops and before the game was released. And I doubt if the 'community' wanted this to be the ONLY loot option for normal mode ops. When I heard about it pre-release, I thought that it was going to be just ONE of the options for looting in a normal mode ops. Clearly there are members of the CURRENT community that do not like this being the only loot option, as threads like this are started each week by different people. It would not be the first time a game mechanic was modified after release, ya know. It is so easy to solve this. Just add a working master loot or need/greed loot option that only works if EVERY member of the group agrees to it. If somebody objects (as probably would happen in a PUG), then the default loot option would be the auto-assign as it is now. That would give more options to everybody, unlike the current situation, which has no options (and don't say the current options are doing HM ops or HM FPs, this is about looting options available to those who want to do normal mode ops). I don't understand why people say that normal modes are only for PUGs. I belong to a large casual guild that has about six different ops teams running right now, and all of them started in normal mode ops and progressed to HM ops. Clearly, normal mode ops are for guilds as well, and I would definitely like to see the 2nd chest piece that I got the other night from normal mode SOA to go to somebody that actually needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remulan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 They don't even need to do all that, they can simply add a pass button that lets you decide that you don't want an item that was assigned to you, then the game reassigns it to someone else. They just fixed the problem with one easy step. People can pass things to people who need it when they don't, and the loot system is preserved for pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) We should create a petition to have this loot system revised immediately. It is a horrible system that kills the incentive of raiding guilds and progressive guilds. Agreed. IF normal mode operations were something you could queue up for individually while an automated system created the group, then having something like this loot system MIGHT make sense, though even with an automated grouping tool, I'd still prefer having a class restricted Need > Green system so that people who don't need or don't want aren't assigned loot other do need or do want. However, operations cannot be completed individually nor is there any tool that forms groups through an automated queue process. SOMEONE has to put a group together. That SOMEONE becomes the leader and as the leader organizing the run, they should have the ability to set it to master loot or whatever loot rules they see fit, with the participants obviously having the ability to agree and run with them or not. And for all loot, they need to make it so people in the same instance that were eligible for loot are able to trade any loot received for some amount of time. Edited February 21, 2012 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foenixz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It is so easy to solve this. Just add a working master loot or need/greed loot option that only works if EVERY member of the group agrees to it. If somebody objects (as probably would happen in a PUG), then the default loot option would be the auto-assign as it is now. That would give more options to everybody, unlike the current situation, which has no options (and don't say the current options are doing HM ops or HM FPs, this is about looting options available to those who want to do normal mode ops). I don't understand why people say that normal modes are only for PUGs. I belong to a large casual guild that has about six different ops teams running right now, and all of them started in normal mode ops and progressed to HM ops. Clearly, normal mode ops are for guilds as well, and I would definitely like to see the 2nd chest piece that I got the other night from normal mode SOA to go to somebody that actually needs it. We the community did decide this once already. The only people I see clamoring for a change are people QQing and whiners. Hard Mode OPS are runnable with lvl 50 gear and a handfull of columi pcs. My Guild ran normals only once to learn the mechanics and we immediately went to HMs and they aren't much harder. Hoenstly NM OPs are one long lootship run so pardon me if I can get all worked up about it. For the people who want master looter goes READ THE FORUMS ITS BUGGED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorbidAri Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 The current system is just awful. Just did my very first operation in this game. Never seen a loot system this bad before. Allow normal mode groups to use master looter. Actually Master Looter is bugged. Even if you run hard I highly recommend you DON'T use ML. Also go do Hard, Norm is far too easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geryboy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 you need columi in order to complete hard mode. And we had a lot of complains in this forum that hard mode falshpoints give only like 2 columi tokens in maybe 30 runs for a certain class. There were alot of threads about always getting one piece, some poeple being full columi after a week, others don't have 4 piece bonus after a month even tough running fps like hell. That + the "pug mode loot system in normal ops" ist driving some people crazy and I can understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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