Sorcerers, seriously what the hell?

[Tsubodia]

Good point what advantage do we Scoundrels have over a Sage/Sorc?

 

Well none, can not out heal them, can not out damage them and can not beat them.

 

a scoundrel.. the rep equivalent of an operative.. and you claim you cant kill a sorc...

 

read this next part very slowly and it might sink in.

 

stop..... being... bad!

Edited February 19, 2012 by Tsubodia

[LosMartonos]

Sorcs/Sages are NOT OP, you're just a low level unexperienced scrub who prefers to whine and shout "OP! or "HACKER!" before studying the situation a little bit. You are believing false information made up by the other low level unexperienced scrubs, and instead of learning to play your own class you keep crying like a little butthurt boy.

 

I'm too egoistic and have no intention to lower myself to your level and try to explain anything, here's someone who has.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/faction60#p/u/12/ZA7YuWuIF-k

[MrXen]

As an assassin I have no issues killing Sorc's over any other class, and their damage if they catch me in the open isn't that threatening imo. What is threatening about them is they have a constant supply of ranged attacks with low'ish damage, as well as AoE's to fall back on. This is not over powered but in terms of damage numbers, constantly shooting low damage (tab-target lightning as we all see a lot) on top of AoE's will boost damage numbers a large amount. Naturally ranged classes have DPS advantage (as they can always be doing some form of damage compared to melee) and AoE has an even larger advantage, thus we see Sorcs with really high damage (mercs as well) at the end of a round.

 

 

In actually killing a sorc? Not hard, and I've used a Merc and had no issues taking down a Sorc/Sage, nor any issues with an Assassin. The lightning can be annoying, but if you LOS a sorc, they just tend to tab target so they can keep their dps the highest (and cause threads like this to occur).

 

 

 

The shield can be annoying in a fight, but thats why you hold your stun until they use it, then you stun them and let them sit through the stun (as you regenerate force, heat, rage, whatever as well as popping consumables) until its gone and lay into them hard (also always keep a snare on them if you have it). If you simply do those two things instead of using heat to fire a tracer missile at a clearly defined shield that will absorb it like a moron, then you will either kill the sorc, or leave him useless until he recharges in a corner. I don't see the issue honestly and this coming from a guy who hates fighting sorcs (because I much prefer taking advantage of some stealther who thinks he can out stealth me).

[Baalazar]

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/faction60#p/u/12/ZA7YuWuIF-k

 

That video pretty much sums it up. Sorcs/Sages force lightning/ telekenetic throw doesn't do as much damage as people think.

 

The problem with sorc isn't the damage at all its the utility they have, which for them being a very weak class as far as defense its not unreasonable.

[wwkingms]

As an assassin I have no issues killing Sorc's over any other class, and their damage if they catch me in the open isn't that threatening imo. What is threatening about them is they have a constant supply of ranged attacks with low'ish damage, as well as AoE's to fall back on. This is not over powered but in terms of damage numbers, constantly shooting low damage (tab-target lightning as we all see a lot) on top of AoE's will boost damage numbers a large amount. Naturally ranged classes have DPS advantage (as they can always be doing some form of damage compared to melee) and AoE has an even larger advantage, thus we see Sorcs with really high damage (mercs as well) at the end of a round.

 

 

In actually killing a sorc? Not hard, and I've used a Merc and had no issues taking down a Sorc/Sage, nor any issues with an Assassin. The lightning can be annoying, but if you LOS a sorc, they just tend to tab target so they can keep their dps the highest (and cause threads like this to occur).

 

 

 

The shield can be annoying in a fight, but thats why you hold your stun until they use it, then you stun them and let them sit through the stun (as you regenerate force, heat, rage, whatever as well as popping consumables) until its gone and lay into them hard (also always keep a snare on them if you have it). If you simply do those two things instead of using heat to fire a tracer missile at a clearly defined shield that will absorb it like a moron, then you will either kill the sorc, or leave him useless until he recharges in a corner. I don't see the issue honestly and this coming from a guy who hates fighting sorcs (because I much prefer taking advantage of some stealther who thinks he can out stealth me).

 

 

people who actualy play you see..

 

sorcs are very gimp 1v1

 

if u cant kill one you need more gear or more skill

Edited February 21, 2012 by Averran
quoted post was deleted

[Samcuu]

Sages and sorcs are annoying I have to agree...but the more pvp I play the easier it is to see its a team game. Don't expect to que solo and have great success it might happen every once in a while but its more the exception to the rule. Get in a guild hop in ts or vent coordinate things and you will have a lot more fun in wzs. Not to brag but when I'm in a pre-made with my guild in TS we win iupwards of 80% of the time and if we see a team full of sorcs we are salivating over the proepect of wrecking them (they are pretty squishy for the most part)

[Tumri]

If a Sorcerer can't admit his class is at least the best in the game and at least a little overpowered he/she is either bad, in denial, or using the "DON'T NERF ME BRO" defense.

 

Sorcerers have so much CC and utility that no other class even beings to compare. It's ridiculous because on a level 24 Sorcerer missing more than half the utility I feel like I have so many more options for every situation when compared with my Marauder. Once I get the overpowered talented CC with Wrath/CL I'll be unstoppable. Last night I was able to get around 350k damage on my Sorcerer at 24. You can argue that this is because of bolster but the damage of all my spells is still about 20-30% less than any geared 50 and I'm using nearly all single target abilities at this level(no force storm, CL, or decent tab-dot damage). It's stupid how well anyone with half a brain can do on them.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Tumri

[Baalazar]

If a Sorcerer can't admit his class is at least the best in the game and at least a little overpowered he/she is either bad, in denial, or using the "DON'T NERF ME BRO" defense.

 

Sorcerers have so much CC and utility that no other class even beings to compare. It's ridiculous because on a level 24 Sorcerer missing more than half the utility I feel like I have so many more options for every situation when compared with my Marauder. Once I get the overpowered talented CC with Wrath/CL I'll be unstoppable. Last night I was able to get around 350k damage on my Sorcerer at 24. You can argue that this is because of bolster but the damage of all my spells is still about 20-30% less than any geared 50 and I'm using nearly all single target abilities at this level(no force storm, CL, or decent tab-dot damage). It's stupid how well anyone with half a brain can do on them.

 

Nerf what????? If sorcs got nerfed they be even more faceroll to kill then already are. You just sound like your mad. I've seen mercs/commandos do just as much heals and damage if not more than sorcs. Mercs/Commandos wear heavy armor and have defensive cds.

 

Sage/Sorcs are far from op you just sound like have some beef with the class itself.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Baalazar

[wwkingms]

If a Sorcerer can't admit his class is at least the best in the game and at least a little overpowered he/she is either bad, in denial, or using the "DON'T NERF ME BRO" defense.

 

Sorcerers have so much CC and utility that no other class even beings to compare. It's ridiculous because on a level 24 Sorcerer missing more than half the utility I feel like I have so many more options for every situation when compared with my Marauder. Once I get the overpowered talented CC with Wrath/CL I'll be unstoppable. Last night I was able to get around 350k damage on my Sorcerer at 24. You can argue that this is because of bolster but the damage of all my spells is still about 20-30% less than any geared 50 and I'm using nearly all single target abilities at this level(no force storm, CL, or decent tab-dot damage). It's stupid how well anyone with half a brain can do on them.

 

rly dont like u man

 

OMG MY UNFOCUSED SAGE DID ALOT OF DMG at lvl 24!

lvl 24 is clearly indicative of high end pvp!!!!

 

 

marauders are the most op 1v1 class in the game

 

snipers have the best single target dmg in the game

 

merc healers are virtualy indestructable

 

tank assasins rolling with 22k hp put out more dmg than my sorc and never die

 

 

there are other things to focus on, i will forever follow you and the lies you spread about a very mediocre class

Edited February 19, 2012 by wwkingms

[WaywardOne]

<< Yes you are leet and know everything about sages at level 19. What a retard. Try to judge the class when you hit level 50 and have all your abilities/gear and spec done. >>

 

 

I never said I was the best, never said I knew everything about sages, never said my sage is currently 19, just that at 19 he started dominating WZs and doing things that would have been much harder on my guardian or sentinel. I was refuting the "argument" that I was "clueless" and hadn't played any other MMO.

 

So apart from the typical troll arguments that those disagreeing with you are "clueless" "retarded" and need to l2p (paraphrasing), what have you got? Do you need to see youtube videos of sorcs dominating wzs? Do you need to see countless testimonials from level 50 sage/sorc players and/or very experienced pvpers/players? Do you want to hear the Blizzard devs laughing at BW's newb design mistakes (I can't actually get that, legally, but I'm sure that they are)?

 

What could hypothetically convince you? Anything?

Edited February 19, 2012 by WaywardOne

[kweassa]

There are individual ups and downs, but usually by lv.30 all classes can more or less give a sorc/sage run for their money.

 

 

In a 1vs1 duel, sorcs/sages can be tough combatants, and there could be some classes that may be able to pressure it hard, but find it very difficult to actually come on top as the winner. However, a warzone is a coordianted effort, and there are so many variables one can exploit to change the outcome.

 

 

Ofcourse, if you are the type that charges in the midst of battle which is within the attack range of 3~4 sorcs around, get chain mezzed and focus fired, and then start complaining defense is too weak or mez is too strong, forget what I said. Just keep on playing stupidly and keep on complaining on the boards. All's well.

 

 

(ps) The reason why sorcs/sages dominate in WZ is simply because the vast majority of combat within the WZ is disorganized, and as much each player inexperienced.

 

In any WZ the opening phases form a "battle line" between the ranged classes, and according to how it is played out any combination of melees or melees/ranges can easily scatter sorcs/sages to non-threatening levels.

 

Even an average-specced tank running full defensive skills with a shot of consumables, can withstand a barrage of attacks from 3~4 sorcs/sages for around 15~20 seconds counting into the fight, a bit longer if at least one healer behind his back. That's one person drawing fire from at least half the enemy team for 20 seconds, which, in the initial phases of the fight is more than enough for the rest of the team's ranged attackers to lay down fire to the sorc/sage's position to threaten them enough to retreat away, or, alternately time enough for the team's melees to charge down and start scattering them around - which in about 15 seconds everyone's gonna be running on full resolve.

 

But again, even such basic level of tactics can rarely seen in the usual PuG level of gameplay, and even many experienced players only function well as an individual - rarely as a team.

 

The coordination between melee-range play tactics on 99%+ of PuGs is abysmal at best, and the odds are that the only tactic people really understand is "attack the nearest enemy".

 

Hence, often it is unrealistic to expect people to understand more than 'target the nearest enemy and press attack button' - which, contributes to the sorc/sage phenomenon.

 

When 99& of the people can't look past 10 meters radius from their character, that is... (or, when 99% of the Guardian/Juggernauts hardly understand that sometimes, opening the attack up with the distance-closing leap attack is a bad, bad idea... I mean, if you Force Leap to the sorc/sage at the very beginning, and then he repels you, how are you going to close distance again, you idiot?)

Edited February 19, 2012 by kweassa

[Boshlord]

Sorcs aren't faceroll they are actually really proc based and the fact we need our utility tells you that we have to be moving and doing **** and can't just faceroll like operatives and mercs can

[Desgarden]

rly dont like u man

 

OMG MY UNFOCUSED SAGE DID ALOT OF DMG at lvl 24!

lvl 24 is clearly indicative of high end pvp!!!!

 

 

marauders are the most op 1v1 class in the game

 

snipers have the best single target dmg in the game

 

merc healers are virtualy indestructable

 

tank assasins rolling with 22k hp put out more dmg than my sorc and never die

 

 

there are other things to focus on, i will forever follow you and the lies you spread about a very mediocre class

 

On soft targets: yes

On heavily armoured targets: okish damage

On tanks: mwahaah - forget it (all marksman damage has to pass through ALL defense types in-game)

[Orangerascal]

If a Sorcerer can't admit his class is at least the best in the game and at least a little overpowered he/she is either bad, in denial, or using the "DON'T NERF ME BRO" defense.

 

Sorcerers have so much CC and utility that no other class even beings to compare. It's ridiculous because on a level 24 Sorcerer missing more than half the utility I feel like I have so many more options for every situation when compared with my Marauder. Once I get the overpowered talented CC with Wrath/CL I'll be unstoppable. Last night I was able to get around 350k damage on my Sorcerer at 24. You can argue that this is because of bolster but the damage of all my spells is still about 20-30% less than any geared 50 and I'm using nearly all single target abilities at this level(no force storm, CL, or decent tab-dot damage). It's stupid how well anyone with half a brain can do on them.

 

This is funny coming from a marauder.

 

Please continue spreading your sorc propaganda. I'll enjoy destroying them on my scoundrel, sage and sentinel.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure sentinels are next on the nerf bat. You can quote this post and come back in 2 months. Gloat if I'm wrong, I won't mind

Edited February 20, 2012 by Orangerascal

[jizerai]

the other day i saw a sage do over 500k damage in a republic v republic huttball. I've never seen another class do that.

 

I also regularly see sages do over 450k healing.

 

Then there are the hybrids that do 300k damage and 150k healing.

 

I'm a decently geared sawbones and I'm very happy when I break 300k heals.

 

and if raw numbers aren't enough, you're right that the amount of utility they have is absurd. The fact that a sage can force speed through a fire trap and then rescue the ball carrier through that same trap... well all i can say is it looks like a lot of fun.

 

It really is as if they designed consulars first, were determined to make them really awsome, and then got over to scoundrels and were like "wait a second... well if we give them the same stuff it'll just seem silly.. soo.. uuh.. they get..stealth? flashbang? screw it i tired myself out making sage awsome scoundrels will have to be content with funnier dialogue"

 

I've seen several Snipers, Marauders and Operatives hit that "magic 500k" mark. In fact, I don't think I've every seen a Sorcerer do it - except on AoEstar, which I don't really count.

 

You're right about the Hybrid-specs though. They generally do 2-300k damage and 100-150k healing in a match. Most of it is AoE damage and Shield-healing though. Not very effective, that is (burst > AoE).

[Waijdan]

Why so many people in online games prefer to faceroll their face off than achieve something with a little bit of skill? Almost every WZ i enter there are like 6-8 inquisitors in one team.

 

Well sorry, i play casters in every single game where it is possible.

Must be because of Ultima Online, but i really hate meeles

[Sylare]

Sorcerers are nothing but bantha fodder

[Orangerascal]

I've seen several Snipers, Marauders and Operatives hit that "magic 500k" mark. In fact, I don't think I've every seen a Sorcerer do it - except on AoEstar, which I don't really count.

 

You're right about the Hybrid-specs though. They generally do 2-300k damage and 100-150k healing in a match. Most of it is AoE damage and Shield-healing though. Not very effective, that is (burst > AoE).

 

 

I hit 500k consistently, here's one for you:

http://jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-03_20_01_38_965819.jpg

 

I'm full BM. Operatives, assassins and sentinels still tear me a new one. The reason I do so well is because they don't do their jobs (disrupt rdps). Most mdps play badly and are too scared to do their jobs, then wonder why mercs and sorcs are topping the charts. It's a catch 22, because if an mdps does not do their job well, then their team pays for it. I see an mdps pain train dominating rated warfronts.

 

Also our token merc and sentinel do comparable damage to me . So it's not just sorcs that pull this damage. Bioware gets the metrics, bad players will complain, it's the life of the forums.

 

I'm also leveling a scoundrel, and they do just fine:

http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_18_52_15_765448.jpg

http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_19_47_16_763254.jpg

http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-13_23_47_40_610369.jpg

 

Remember the game is balanced around group pvp. Can you imagine the sentinel nerf if they decided to balance the game for 1v1?

Edited February 20, 2012 by Orangerascal

[me_unknown]

whiners about sage/sorc are quite contradicting themselfs when they claim on one side that sages have far more cc and utilities than ALL other classes (which is totally wrong btw.) but on the other side the side they say it is a faceroll class, does not need any skills.

 

you can't win with a utility class without using their utilities. and using utilities needs tactics and reaction. while playing a class that only does damage needs no skill. just spam your damage rotation as you do not have any utility with that you can react to situations.

 

and actually this is what they seem to want: all classes with zero utilities and let it be a shooter with autotargeting. so the first one that starts spamming their damage ration wins.

well it would easily solve any balance issues as we all just need to be able to have the same dps on each other to balance it out.

 

you see the pvp experts here

Edited February 20, 2012 by me_unknown

[jizerai]

I hit 500k consistently, here's one for you:

http://jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-03_20_01_38_965819.jpg

 

I'm full BM. Operatives, assassins and sentinels still tear me a new one. The reason I do so well is because they don't do their jobs (disrupt rdps). Most mdps play badly and are too scared to do their jobs, then wonder why mercs and sorcs are topping the charts. It's a catch 22, because if an mdps does not do their job well, then their team pays for it. I see an mdps pain train dominating rated warfronts.

 

Also our token merc and sentinel do comparable damage to me . So it's not just sorcs that pull this damage. Bioware gets the metrics, bad players will complain, it's the life of the forums.

 

I'm also leveling a scoundrel, and they do just fine:

http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_18_52_15_765448.jpg

http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-11_19_47_16_763254.jpg

http://www.jedilace.com/ss/Screenshot_2012-02-13_23_47_40_610369.jpg

 

Remember the game is balanced around group pvp. Can you imagine the sentinel nerf if they decided to balance the game for 1v1?

 

Oh, I'm not saying Sorcerers/Sages don't do comparative damage. If you hit that with yours, congratulations. I'm just saying I haven't seen it (except on Voidstar, which your screenshot happens to be on ) happen - that I can remember.

 

I'm also saying that most of that damage is usually AoE and not Single Target burst, which means that it's not as effective. I think most classes do comparative damage to one another. The healing .. well, let's just say it's not exactly scaling as damage do. But that is another discussion I guess.

 

I'm just confounded by the "Sorcerers do too much (burst) damage!" and then when that's refuted people go "Their shield makes them immortal/I hit it for like 20k and it didn't break!" which just isn't the case, when they finally go "But they have too much CC!".

 

Maybe Sorcerers/Sages are overpowered. Maybe someone should check their Talent trees and rearrange some CC on them. Maybe someone should try and charge a Sorcerer with a Marauder and see what happens if Sprint is on cooldown.

[Squatdog_nz]

I can see a pattern developing here...

 

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/Squatdog/swtor5.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Telos]

just roll a marauder/sentinel and eat every sorc/sage alive that you come across.

[GrandMike]

just roll a marauder/sentinel and eat every sorc/sage alive that you come across.

 

Nah, they will be nefref soon, id go for powertech/vanguard atm

[Xsorus]

<<

your completely clueless then. you clearly havnt played any other mmo in your life.

>>

 

Neverwinter Nights (on aol)

EQ1

EQ2

AC1

AC2

Shadowbane

CoH

DAOC

Champions

WAR

AOC

WAR

DCU

 

I dabbled in some others and spent a lot of time on some text-based games, too.

 

This is the most imbalanced game I've played in over 5 years (which, for me, is a long time).

 

My guardian often gets top damage now that he is Battlemaster and geared. He gets a few MVP votes and racks up 1 or 2 solo kills.

 

My sage at 19 recently got 5 mvps, 3 solo kills, top heals and higher dam than heals in one game. And he's gotten better since. I think my sentinel got a couple mvp votes and top damage once in his 20s but that was when he had a pocket healer.

 

My only point is that I know what I'm talking about.

 

My

 

Not going to argue that Sorcs/Sages and what not aren't overpowered, and they have to much..

 

However you listing a bunch of games, then making the biggest load of crap statement ever that this game is "the most imbalanced game in over 5 years tells me you didn't actually play any of the bloody games you just listed, and instead just pulled it completely out of your ***. What it probably means is you played WoW, and this is your second MMO.

 

Because as powerful as Sorcs/Sages are in this game, They're not completely over the top like in other games.

 

I'll use Warhammer as an Example, Sorc/Sage have nothing on Bright Wizards at the start.. Nothing... I don't care if you think Sorc/Sages are amazing cause of heals, They still have ZERO on BW's...

 

DAOC is another example.. Again, Clearly you never dealt with the Smite Cleric at the start of that game, Or My Savage Quad hitting people for 1000 damage. Banshee's.. Need I say more.

 

EQ, Try killing an Enchanter or Necromancer 1v1 in that game on any class...

 

Hell, even DCU, My Ice Melee Guy or whatever it was... Oh look, I popped a damage shield that instantly kills you if you beat on me.

 

This game, despite it's flaws, Is actually fairly balanced well.. Even the *******st class in PvP the Sniper, can do ok...

 

I wanna add if you want to see clearly unbalanced classes, Might I suggest you should of played Rift at the Start as well, and dealt with Titan Striking Warriors, Or my Pyromancer one shotting you.. and I do mean One shotting you... Every 45 seconds, a bloody one shot on anyone I choose.

 

****.. Warcaller (Warlock+Stormcaller), better not bunch up, or I can kill your entire team in under 3 seconds..

[indelible]

If Sorcerers were as glaringly overpowered as some of you make out, long "debates" like this wouldn't be happening.

 

Food for thought.