Why am I dying so much as a shadow?

[Anduiin]

I know its supposed to be a glass cannon of sorts but I have a really hard time leveling or doing class quests even when Im 3-4 levels above them. Qyzen gets rocked even though he has a lot of gear around my level but he still gets lit up. I get smashed by silver mobs taking huge damage despite stuns, mini stun, shield even using medpacks but I still get wrecked. I have an easier time in PVP than I do in PvE. What am I doing wrong, what do you do? Edited February 19, 2012 by Anduiin

[Deathnar]

Hello there

 

I am no expert, this is my first MMO...so kind of a 'noob' as some say. I'm glad I am not the only one feeling the pain as a Shadow.

 

I just got to level 40. I think if you do not have Qyzen (geared) and use him as your tank or later have Tharan, you would have a hard time and possibly die a lot.

 

I tried all 3 Shadow specs, at different levels and basically the only companion that I can use consistently is Tharan (healer) and I am Kinetic spec.

 

Tharan is good because of the CC from the hologram girl. Here is something that just happen to me a few hours ago.

 

At level 39, I decided to go back to Quesh from Hoth, after I got Lt Iresso (which you get after Quesh) to finish some quests. He is supposed to be a ranged tank and he had 'default' Hoth gear, which I assume is better than Quesh gear, since the planet comes after that.

 

Anywho, he has 'default' gear and he has a hard time taking mobs, 3 levels under me. 4 mobs we would die unless I would use a med pack (I'm I supposed to use them to survive? Is that normal?).

 

I tried to take a level 37 Elite with him tanking and we died. Twice, with cooldowns and all.

 

It does not make sense, since Lt Iresso is supposed to be a range tank. I could understand having a hard time with him in Hott with default gear but not on mobs 3 levels below me.

 

Maybe cause they are droids and I couldn't do the Mind Maze in stealth but I did have a very hard time.

 

There are some droids (can't remember what they are called) that 2 of them together would make me die. I also tried Zenith (his DPS is supposed to rock) and Kinetic tank and it was too hard at level.

 

Right now, I can only have the healer as my companion. I'm sure other players don't have any problems but I can only play the shadow class as a kinetic with a healer, otherwise I do die a lot, even if I cc'd.

 

The last quest on Quesh I even die as a tank and class quests, I had to take the adds, then disappear and go after the elite boss.

 

My advice, cc if you can. Do small pulls (no more than 4) and use med packs I guess until you get the healer.

[Shardie]

When you say "Glass Cannon" I suspect you are specced Infiltration or Balance. if so, its best to run with a fully geared Theran, (as annoying as he is) he will be able to heal you, and will increase your survivability. Tanking companions need a really good buff IMO; they can hold threat well, however they cannot survive very long while holding that threat (unless your healing specced).

 

If your still having survivability problems, you should go Kinetic, which is a tank spec, and run Combat Tech. Also use your stealth and your Mind Maze to your advantage to take out one of the tough guys while you deal with the others.

[gurugeorge]

If your still having survivability problems, you should go Kinetic, which is a tank spec, and run Combat Tech. Also use your stealth and your Mind Maze to your advantage to take out one of the tough guys while you deal with the others.

 

Confirming that Kinetic is hard as nails, and with Theran there's hardly any downtime either, it's go go go all the time (unsurprisingly I suppose, since that build is called "Kinetic" )

 

So if ppl are having trouble levelling up Infil or Balance, definitely give Kinetic a go.

[Anduiin]

yea infiltration spec. I wonder all of this because my other two characters are 1) 42 powertech tank spec so dying is never a problem 2) sorcerer with healing so keeping tanks alive is np. I will try a different spec for survivability.

[Shardie]

Confirming that Kinetic is hard as nails, and with Theran there's hardly any downtime either, it's go go go all the time (unsurprisingly I suppose, since that build is called "Kinetic" )

 

So if ppl are having trouble levelling up Infil or Balance, definitely give Kinetic a go.

 

Its so easy that I run around with Zen or Nadia just to add some risk to the whole matter. Otherwise unless its a champion, your not going down. And even then, i don't risk dying on Elites unless I mess up my interrupt/stuns on the techs.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Shardie

[Tiresias]

I am a very experienced Shadow, and I'm going to be very blunt here:

 

Infiltration and Balance are terrible Shadow specs.

 

And by "terrible" I mean that they are possibly the worst talent trees in the game.

 

In any encounter lasting longer than 15 seconds (i.e. and PvE or PvP encounter that matters) Kinetic's damage is nearly identical to what the "DPS" specs can output when played correctly. This is because it gets frequent automatic crits on Project and dramatically upgraded Telekinetic Throw casts. It also has much better static Force regeneration and doesn't rely on any positional attacks.

 

Infiltration is a burst damage spec that rapidly goes into Force-starvation when its regeneration buffs end.

 

Balance is a DoT spec that doesn't output significantly increased DPS over Kinetic but doesn't have even half of Kinetic's durability and self-healing.

 

A lot of Shadows are starting to realize this and are switching to Kinetic. Simply slap on a Shield Generator but align all of your other gear for DPS (Crit, Surge, and Power) and you will find yourself leveling extremely quickly with minimal downtime while soloing Heroic-2 quests and Champion-level enemies.

 

I use Nadia for most routine questing and switch over the Theran when I need to take down an elite or Heroic quest.

[Vudee]

I've raged quit a couple of times but I didn't have much if any issues leveling with Kinetic spec

[Laoi]

infiltration is amazingly bad for pve IF u dont run with healing companion. with healing companion its still not as easy as tankspec. i still prefer it over the tank spec cos it kills so much faster and i hate pve so i just wanted to get over with it asap

 

i could kill elite mob + 2 strong mobs with all of them 2 levels higher than me at the same time with infi but it is quite the effort while with tankspec u just faceroll over that. downside: it takes like twice as long as it does with infi. but yeah if ur not fully aware of what ur char can do and how to use ur stuff to maximum effectiveness then ur prolly better off with tankspec as it is much more forgiving both in pvp and pve. just alot easier to play.

[Freor]

At level 39, I decided to go back to Quesh from Hoth, after I got Lt Iresso (which you get after Quesh) to finish some quests. He is supposed to be a ranged tank and he had 'default' Hoth gear, which I assume is better than Quesh gear, since the planet comes after that.

 

Anywho, he has 'default' gear and he has a hard time taking mobs, 3 levels under me. 4 mobs we would die unless I would use a med pack (I'm I supposed to use them to survive? Is that normal?).

 

I tried to take a level 37 Elite with him tanking and we died. Twice, with cooldowns and all.

 

It does not make sense, since Lt Iresso is supposed to be a range tank. I could understand having a hard time with him in Hott with default gear but not on mobs 3 levels below me.

 

Can't tell much about shadows as I play sage, but about our companions in general: While they do have that "default" equipment, it's really not something you should have them use for long. Not on your main companion(s) at least. Also, some of the equipment slots arent even filled (head, implants, ear).

 

I assume you are using the correct stance for them, ie tanking stance for Iresso and Qyzen if you want them to tank.

[-Fritz-]

to give you a comparison ive been leveling a shadow and a scoundrel side by side, and they are currently the exact same level.

 

 

i dont think ive ever died on my scoundrel, and if i have it certainly was not when it was important.

 

ive died on my shadow facing most of his story line bosses, while i was over their level... and yes he is 100% tank spec.

 

 

switching my shadows companion to a healer helped him to die less, but even just yesturday i was finishing them both up on one planet and got to the end of their quest lines for it...

 

the scoundrel breezed through it like it wasnt even a quest.

 

the shadow got killed once, then won.

 

 

 

... the story bosses are NOT even remotely balanced between these 2 classes.

 

 

 

p.s. my scoundrel is sawbones spec... so he is not "bringin da pain" either.

Edited February 19, 2012 by -Fritz-

[calibrik]

im kinetic, and once i got theran, everything was easy mode

[Jiintao]

im kinetic, and once i got theran, everything was easy mode

 

this, i can solo champion mobs =)

[KennethHoover]

im kinetic, and once i got theran, everything was easy mode

 

Totally this. I don't like Theran's personality, but I can't negate his efficacy in battles.

[Roeg]

to give you a comparison ive been leveling a shadow and a scoundrel side by side, and they are currently the exact same level.

 

 

i dont think ive ever died on my scoundrel, and if i have it certainly was not when it was important.

 

ive died on my shadow facing most of his story line bosses, while i was over their level... and yes he is 100% tank spec.

 

 

switching my shadows companion to a healer helped him to die less, but even just yesturday i was finishing them both up on one planet and got to the end of their quest lines for it...

 

the scoundrel breezed through it like it wasnt even a quest.

 

the shadow got killed once, then won.

 

 

 

... the story bosses are NOT even remotely balanced between these 2 classes.

 

 

 

p.s. my scoundrel is sawbones spec... so he is not "bringin da pain" either.

 

He's got a point there..

[Kaphik]

I am a very experienced Shadow, and I'm going to be very blunt here:

 

Infiltration and Balance are terrible Shadow specs.

 

And by "terrible" I mean that they are possibly the worst talent trees in the game.

 

In any encounter lasting longer than 15 seconds (i.e. and PvE or PvP encounter that matters) Kinetic's damage is nearly identical to what the "DPS" specs can output when played correctly. This is because it gets frequent automatic crits on Project and dramatically upgraded Telekinetic Throw casts. It also has much better static Force regeneration and doesn't rely on any positional attacks.

 

Infiltration is a burst damage spec that rapidly goes into Force-starvation when its regeneration buffs end.

 

Balance is a DoT spec that doesn't output significantly increased DPS over Kinetic but doesn't have even half of Kinetic's durability and self-healing.

 

A lot of Shadows are starting to realize this and are switching to Kinetic. Simply slap on a Shield Generator but align all of your other gear for DPS (Crit, Surge, and Power) and you will find yourself leveling extremely quickly with minimal downtime while soloing Heroic-2 quests and Champion-level enemies.

 

I use Nadia for most routine questing and switch over the Theran when I need to take down an elite or Heroic quest.

 

That's horribly wrong.

 

You can level up perfectly fine with Qyzen as your tank. First thing to do is keep him geared up which is easily done with some moddable gear. Spend your commendations on upgrading his gear, and yours.

 

The key to Infiltration is control and burst. Turn off Qyzen's aoe abilities if you are going to use Mind Maze, but otherwise be extremely liberal with your Force Stun. As in, use it every time it's up on strong mobs. Project works fine to stun weak mobs. Burn down the weaker enemies before the stronger ones, let Qyzen hold their attention while you take care of the rest. I easily leveled to 50 as full Infiltration using Qyzen, and Iresso for a bit of a break when I got him. Tharan is a creepy perv for female characters, imo, and he annoyed me so I never bothered with him

 

Learning how to control the groups using your abilities while leveling up is excellent practice for how to dps with a "real" group of people. I solo'd most heroic 2s while leveling using CC and Force Cloak, and I'm not talking about the ones you can fully stealth through to complete without attacking anything either.

 

Oh, and one more thing, interrupting enemy casts is vital to survival! Put that button in an easy to reach place.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Kaphik

[Azunai_]

never tried infi, but kinetic is a very solid spec for levelling. my first lvl 50 character was a defense specced jedi guardian and compared to her, the kinetic shadow feels just overpowered. i reached level 50 today and i'm almaost done with corellia now, and i didn't die a single time (in pve) in the last 10 levels or so. i've been using nadia since i got her and only switch to tharan for heroic 2 quests and champions.

 

so if you have trouble with levelling, give kinetic a try. keep you gear up to date and you can pretty much steamroll everything in your path with no downtimes.