This game = Anti-Social

[Kourage]

Come back after they add the cross server Flashpoint tool.

[Senatsu]

Come back after they add the cross server Flashpoint tool.

 

Yeah... That's gonna help anti-social players become more social...

 

Cross-server flashpoint tool chat log:

 

Tank: "Hi".

Healer: "Hi".

DPS1: "Hi".

DPS2: "Hai".

 

Flashpoint over.

 

Great socializing there. GG.

[Esica]

You seem to be using sociopathy and psychopathy as interchangeable terms, so what is your view on the opinion that the two should be seen as different subsets of AntiSocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) ?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

"Psychopathy and sociopathy are terms related to ASPD. ASPD replaced psychopathy as a diagnosis in the DSM but the terms are not identical. Psychopathy is now (like sociopathy) usually seen as a subset of ASPD.[3][4]"

[xRydisx]

I think you're basing this assumption on a perceived premise that simply isn't true, and hasn't been for a very long time.

 

Can you name a single MMO that has launched in the last 5 years that wasn't designed to allow any player get to max level solo? Maybe there are some, I don't know. But there are many more designed with the single player specifically in mind.

 

DCUO, LOTRO, STO, AoC, EQ2, WoW, DDO, CoH, CoV, CO...

 

No matter what these games were at launch, they all (and every new MMO being released) are now designed with either an even match of multiplayer/solo content, or they have much more solo content.

 

I respect that you think MMOs should be "mostly based around multiplayer" but the reality is, they aren't. And they haven't been fora a while now. The entire "why play a multiplayer game solo" argument became genuinely obsolete a long time ago.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't have multiplyer content. I think they most certainly should. They should have a lot of it. But to say it should be mostly based around multiplayer - IMO - is an outdated notion. You said: "But this is a MMO..not just a multiplayer game. MMO's are designed around multiplayer." I respectfully think that's a very outdated notion. For every modern MMO you can name that is mostly based around multiplayer, I can name 5 that aren't.

 

Now, if you're just stating your opinion that you think it SHOULD be that way, cool. It's a valid opinion to have, and I'm definitely not going to argue that. But I disagree with the inference that this is the way MMOs are currently designed. It isn't and hasn't been for a long time. I would actually go so far as to say multiplayer focused MMOs are most definitely in the minority. They are - and have always been - niche market games.

 

Just my opinion here.

 

and Honestly, I would be fine with exactly that..as long as it at least promoted group content, which TOR does not really do..at all.

 

in DCUO..all the end game is group based. Even trying to do daily wanted (forget actual name) quests requires at least 2 people for almost all of them. Sure, you can solo to 30, and explore all the cities for feats..but you can also max your level is 2-3 days.

 

Never played the rest..so can't comment. My MMO is limited to FFXI (when it first came) Rift, DCUO and Dragons Nest (and Wakfu). All these games, while had a ton of solo content, still promoted and rewarded you for grouping and such. It gave you a good reason to even want to group up. TOR discourages you from grouping. It is promoting its solo content. Now you might say the last 5 years of games have been this way, and your probably right. And it is my opinion that I think they really shouldn't. But as you said..in an attempt to make money, they do more single content..and now we have almost everyone that prefers it because it is the standard. I just find it a little sad is all.

[GuyTallman]

Their may be another reason that you are having trouble getting groups together, one that people often overlook. You and your immediate group of friends made horrible class decisions.

 

Sniper and Marauder looking for 2 more for hardmodes? Good luck. I don't know why I am always astonished to see the majority of the population roll DPS classes only to lament not being able to find a full group. I rolled a tank. Of the 3 irl friends I have in this game, another rolled a tank and the other 2 rolled healers. I recentely had to switch my Assassin to DPS to help the party out.

 

Not saying this is necessarily the case for OP, however, it is a startlingly rampant problem. "But my damage is awesome, who cares that I am a melee DPS liability advertising for a group all alone, why wouldn't people be crawling over each other to get in my group?!?!?!"

[ArtMonster]

lol people...it's not a disorder....

 

 

...it's a choice.

.

[Esica]

Correction.

 

There are two versions with different meanings.

 

Antisocial and Anti-Social.

 

One is being unsociable and the other is being a murderer.

 

Actually... Anti-social and antisocial is just two different ways of spelling the same word. Although, I won't claim that a fact, as I could be wrong. But before I admit to being wrong, I'd like a reference from you to back up your statement.

 

Also... being antisocial is, simply put, being in complete lack of empathy toward other people.

While being unsocial is just not interacting much with others, for a variety of reasons.

[Melkathi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

"Psychopathy and sociopathy are terms related to ASPD. ASPD replaced psychopathy as a diagnosis in the DSM but the terms are not identical. Psychopathy is now (like sociopathy) usually seen as a subset of ASPD.[3][4]"

 

Does not answer the question, rather points out exactly what I was commenting on in your original message were you used the term sociopathy in the first half of the sentence, then switched to the term psychopathy.

 

You were pointing out that the term Anti-Social refers to sociopathic behaviour and then proceeded to state that the title thus clearly brands the game as psychopathic.

So if they are not identical terms, which one is it?

 

 

(And yes, I do have better things to do than troll you on this.)

[Esica]

Does not answer the question, rather points out exactly what I was commenting on in your original message were you used the term sociopathy in the first half of the sentence, then switched to the term psychopathy.

 

You were pointing out that the term Anti-Social refers to sociopathic behaviour and then proceeded to state that the title thus clearly brands the game as psychopathic.

So if they are not identical terms, which one is it?

 

 

(And yes, I do have better things to do than troll you on this.)

 

My mistake. I was trying to point out how being anti-social is not being unsociable, but rather having an actual disorder, and then using both terms as a reference.

I apologize if my attempt to point out a flaw was in fact a flaw itself.

(correcting that error now)

[Dekkau]

But if nobody wants to play with you how can you make them. And from my own experience if you want to actually see real anti-social behaviour then use a tool like LFG. Your suggestion that the 'game' = anti-social is false. It is the players themselves that choose to be sociable or as you put it anti-social, though the term here is used out of context. Because if the social norm is not to group then it is you that is anti-social by going against the general way the given community wish to exist. You can only be making a comparison set against the values of another game. Therefore if the cultural, social and moral values of the given community do not concur with your standpoint on matters then you risk becoming an outcast and that can be deemed anti social.

 

The game makers will in time no doubt take a view on matters depending on financial returns for their product. But if the greater community fulfil the creators financial targets then there will be no need to satisfy the anti social minority.

 

Did you see what I did there. At this point I would normally score 50 Light.

[Melkathi]

My mistake. I was trying to point out how being anti-social is not being unsociable, but rather having an actual disorder, and then using both terms as a reference.

I apologize if my attempt to point out a flaw was in fact a flaw itself.

(correcting that error now)

 

Meh. Now you took all the fun out of this by being all serious

 

 

Guess I have to go do work now...

Edited February 19, 2012 by Melkathi

[SentinelDranoel]

Yup. It's Knights of the Old Republic with some multiplayer thrown in. My sub cycles on the 25th and I highly doubt I'm giving them any more money until they fix the game.

 

good thing i like kotor more then mmo's. I understand as I have met people who play mmo's soley for the community. Of course my stance on that stays the same, "you can have a community in the real world". As it is now, it is anti-social because you can solo the entire game. I rather just bring my companions in heroics and flashpoints.

[Esica]

Meh. Now you took all the fun out of this by being all serious

 

 

Guess I have to go do work now...

 

Haha, sorry about that Thanks for the fun, and take care

[Kourage]

Yeah... That's gonna help anti-social players become more social...

 

Cross-server flashpoint tool chat log:

 

Tank: "Hi".

Healer: "Hi".

DPS1: "Hi".

DPS2: "Hai".

 

Flashpoint over.

 

Great socializing there. GG.

 

Why don't you try actually reading what he posted and complained about.

[Gphalen]

After watching the FULL servers drop to light or standard populations, ill go with alot of players have left to go back to their respective games, WOW console or other.

 

However i think what the issue is most people rushed in wanted to swing a lightsaber and rolled dps toons now that they have hit 50 their starting to level alts healers tanks etc.

 

I rolled a bounty hunter, My favs are Boba and Cade Bane..maxed my Bh now i am leveling a jedi tank. next will be a healer.

 

As stated many times the healers here are lacking with a grand total of 6 heals where my druid in heals spec has alot.

 

I Like the rest am not seeing to much of a relay value in this game. the end game content is garbage. however i am not impressed with blizzard dumbing down the talent trees..

 

as of 5.0 and the into of the 7 talent tree all them guys who thrived by tweaking said talent tree to make the odd thing better about their specs is history it will be a cookie cutter across every spec no ability to tweak it.

 

I grew tired of blizzard catering to a select few whiners who couldnt adapt to the better players who tried a spec spent gold to tweak that spec til it was in their minds as op as it was going to get.

 

I tweaked my feral druid several times until i had the spec down cold. that was the joy of running in wow you could tweak and tweak and gear and enchant etc until you had in your mind a bad***** toon.

 

TOR it feels like this...I hit 50 now what ops? who cares whats the point flashpoints again who cares..

 

Theres no real alure to run anything in the end game progression well i truly cant speak i have no intrest in running this stuff. i figure its a lack of a decent guild etc so while i level my jedi ill join a guild i find smaller guilds to be more fun as your not lost in the crowd of 900 players as in wow. it wasnt until i had fully learned my toon in every aspect that i became a stand out in that crowd and by then i was on my way out to a less crowded guild.

 

Guilds are Guilds there is a inner circle of 10-20 players the rest are just there as a means to an end!

 

other then that feb19th -feb 28th still undecided ad to which of the two are on their way out of my hard drive tor or wow.

[Vecke]

and Honestly, I would be fine with exactly that..as long as it at least promoted group content, which TOR does not really do..at all.

 

in DCUO..all the end game is group based. Even trying to do daily wanted (forget actual name) quests requires at least 2 people for almost all of them. Sure, you can solo to 30, and explore all the cities for feats..but you can also max your level is 2-3 days.

 

Never played the rest..so can't comment. My MMO is limited to FFXI (when it first came) Rift, DCUO and Dragons Nest (and Wakfu). All these games, while had a ton of solo content, still promoted and rewarded you for grouping and such. It gave you a good reason to even want to group up. TOR discourages you from grouping. It is promoting its solo content. Now you might say the last 5 years of games have been this way, and your probably right. And it is my opinion that I think they really shouldn't. But as you said..in an attempt to make money, they do more single content..and now we have almost everyone that prefers it because it is the standard. I just find it a little sad is all.

 

Good point and a perfectly valid stance.

 

And I've not actually played FFXI, Rift, or Dragons Nest, so I can't really speak to those games.

[Blackardin]

Yeah... That's gonna help anti-social players become more social...

 

Cross-server flashpoint tool chat log:

 

Tank: "Hi".

Healer: "Hi".

DPS1: "Hi".

DPS2: "Hai".

 

Flashpoint over.

 

Great socializing there. GG.

 

Actually, more like this.

 

"hey, boot the mage. He is missing a gem slot".

 

"Shut up, newb."

 

"No you!"

 

Followed by an endless battle of wits between two nitwits from servers you never heard of while you and the other two try to complete the dungeon. ;p

 

We found out just how game enhancing that was in WoW. In fact, it was the greatest social disaster in the history of the genre.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Blackardin

[seallone]

Actually, more like this.

 

"hey, boot the mage. He is missing a gem slot".

 

"Shut up, newb."

 

"No you!"

 

Followed by an endless battle of wits between two nitwits while you and the other two try to complete the dungeon. ;p

 

We found out just how game enhancing that was in WoW. In fact, it was the greatest social disaster in the history of the genre.

 

 

Maybe do something with social point's, at the end of the run. think about it. idunno

[Eepinephrine]

To those saying a LFG tool will solve the OP's problem, it won't. Sure he will find a group, that doesn't change the game's core mechanics encouraging anti-social behavior. The problem is endemic in any MMO that imitates WoW, because the core mechanics there are what destroyed whatever was left of old server communities (realm transfers/faction transfers).

 

Due to the LFG tool originating from WoW, I'll use it as a reference. LFG, not only puts you with strangers (spamming /1 does this too), it puts you with players you have no chance in hell of ever seeing again. This means not only will is discourage people to make friends, (you won't be on that player(s) server and even if you did, you can't communicate cross server) the only social interaction is usually negative (lashing out due to a player failing at a mechanic, not outputting enough dps, etc...). Whether you believe criticizing/chastising a bad player is warranted or not, it is irrelevant. This kind of social interaction is worse than none at all for most people, think about it, do you find it fun to watch people bicker at each other? Even if you aren't the focus of the anger, is it enjoyable to watch people mock/insult others? No, it ruins what little immersion there is, and the chore of logging in to due a daily is made worse due to the environment it takes place.

 

But regardless as stated above, the LFG tool isn't the issue here, its the anti-social nature of the game. And as stated its from a more broad imitation of WoW, which has reduced the logistics and organization needed to tackle the content it offers. Its been a double edged sword to say the least. The core game mechanics gurantee you can solo to 50, but I would go one step further, it ENCOURAGES you to solo if you look at the XP-rate soloing vs. the XP-rate doing grouped content (flashpoints, heroic quests, etc...). Players hit 50 having been pushed to solo and engage in their story (which has not incentives to do while grouped) and then see the endgame is nothing but group content (as it should be otherwise you might as well go play a single-player RPG). As most of the players here are from WoW, they are use to being guided into the content.

 

The only way to solve the problem is core game mechanic changes, or get yourself an active guild as I'm sure you already know. Making a significant portion of the leveling up experience require and/or have highly incentive-ed group content would go a long way to make people more comfortable with multi-player content. However, the crux of the problem is Blizzard has breed a generation of gamers who have ever shorter attention spans and as a by-product of getting streamlined, watered down content, have made games that were once very unique for their social environments into a lobby game, with a city to sit in while you queue up.

[Blackardin]

Why don't you try actually reading what he posted and complained about.

 

Mostly because many of us have read it a hundred times through 5 games, and didn't agree with it then. We saw them win in Wow and destroy any semblance of community they had.

 

We don't need no stinking CST.

 

At least not to hand feed anti social people something they will end up abusing anyway. ;p

 

....and btw, the last time my Mage queued for LFG in wow, the wait time was 45 mins.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Blackardin

[Whillwynn]

I don't understand this notion. The game needn't be social, it's the job of the players to socialize if they want to. If people are not socializing without being forced to, that's telling you something about the playerbase, not the game. But I wouldn't be so quick to judge others... look within.

 

MMOs these days are springboards for socialization... it's all about how you use them. This game has activities for people to do together, and it's pretty apparent to me that some of us are doing those activities, being social, and enjoying ourselves. Then you have all these posters that on one hand say they want the game to be social, but on the other ask for a tool that forms groups for them randomly. And some go as far as to suggest that the game isn't social enough unless you're practically forced to play with them. Huh?

 

I think this all goes back to some stereotypes that perhaps have more truth to them than we'd like to admit. You're struggling to make friends and find people to interact with in a place full of people with a common major interest, with several activities in place for you to do together, and where you don't even have the potential downside of people judging you before you have time to sell yourself. I don't think the problem is that the game is anti-social. How much easier could it be for you? You're basically asking them to force people to interact with you, because you'd rather not have to take the initiative.

 

Sorry if this last bit sounds harsh; but if you can't meet people and make friends with all the help this medium is giving you, it's not the game that's anti-social. It's you.

[uruz]

I don't think anti-social is the word - I think the game is anti-grouping specifically because the social items are mainly cosmetic. Perhaps they should implement items which are useful to enhance your character's stats - epic trinkets, mods, etc.

 

Those in our guild who have been running the HM flashpoints have already maxed out their characters. And while leveling up - they ran the warzone dailies - so there is little to no reason to warzone anymore either. Guild chat is barren with the occasional "Hey guild" or "Hey - the Blue's Brothers are on tv!".

 

I think Bioware did an excellent job at what they do - provide a unique story for you to play through the FIRST time on each side [imperial and Republic] - this formula works great for the rest of their games, but not so great in a multi-player environment.

 

Hopefully they will work on new content/updates will make it so it's more desirable to group up.