-Operative Healing and Future End Game Content-

[Creopolus]

This is my opinion from playing the game way too much.

 

 

At the moment content is too easy even in nightmare so you are not forced to min/max your raid comp. In my opinion, people take operative to raid to heal because it's the only viable spec for operative.

 

Operative healing is very subpar compared to the other 2 healers and here is why:

 

 

1) Operative 31 point aoe healing is too high on energy cost and is very weak.

Operative single target heal is pretty strong but we need more than that.

 

2) Merc and Sorc have 2-3 distinct ability that WILL be CRUCIAL to end game content that are hard. ( perhaps in 1.2 ? )

 

Merc/Commando have +10 Armor Buff and a 10% Damage reduction buff for 15 secs on multiple people from kolto cloud when you have 30 stacks on cell (which is roughly on multiple people for 15 secs every 30 secs ).

 

Sorc/Sage have shield. Shield is amazing because it gives you potential hidden hit points that you don't have. It means when you have 19k life with a shield on you, you potential have 22000 to 23000 life.

 

Operative doesn't have any crucial healing buff to help with end game content.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Creopolus

[Cyrdan]

I'll chime in with my operative opinions as well. For a little bit of background I healed quite a bit in WoW (Pally) and LOTRO (Minstrel) as well, raids, PvP, you name it. I lvl'ed 1-50 as a heal spec operative and healed many flashpoints and heroic groups without too much trouble... i had some tough times but figured it was how it was supposed to be.

 

Then I started healing HM's and.... dang. Really hard to heal through just the damage on the tank (forget anyone else for a moment) AND keep tactical advantage up AND manage power.... lots of wipes/deaths. Even then I figured, "well it is supposed to be hard and maybe I am not geared well enough. maybe the the skill delay bug was really hosing me, etc." soon, I could not get in some pugs as a op healer, they didn't want to run with a gimp healer. So I shifted over the DPS (middle tree) and have DPS'ed on every HM in the game, pretty much; it is impossible to tell if I am pulling my weight, or not, as there is no DPS meter but my groups have all gotten through the DPS race fights. I do suspect that I am not pulling as much DPS as my other DPS partner in the group in most cases for variety of reasons (e.g. how fast I can solo kill a HM sliver NPC relative to other classes I am grouped with). And this is not due to my skill... I pulled near raid topping DPS as a ret Pally in WoW and anyone who DPS'ed as Pally knows how challenging ret Pally was to get good DPS out of.

 

My 0.02 summary of operative: Op healer is more difficult to play/manage without any benefit for playing the class really well (in fact Op is gimped even if you play the hell out of the class). This opinion is shared by guildies who have both an op healer and merc or sorc healer. You need to manage tactical advantage to keep a 'meh' healing output buff up and keep power regen up, and to use to stack a free instant heal on the tail end of the main heal... an whole lot of additional button pushing on keyboard which is clunky and gets the way of actually healing.

 

some quick fixes: i don't know if this changed lately or not, but for me kolto probe was triggering a global CD... this make sustaining HoT on group members, and sometimes even the tank, nigh impossible during nasty fights. kolto probe should not trigger the CD and have a much faster animation as well. kolto probe should stack to 3 and after the 18 sec timer, the stacks should wear off at a rate of 1 every 3 seconds instead of just wiping to zero immediately.

 

diagnostic scan is laughable... needs a huge buff or to simply to be replaced with a another skill that is actually useful. Compared to merc rapid shots, diagnostic scan is incredibly bad.

 

Kolto infusion -- it is effectively no better than injection in heal per energy...it has is has a slighty shorter induction time, but it still triggers a GCD (i think) so it doesn't matter much that it is faster than injection... the GCD trigger mean it cost you 1.5 sec of healing anyhow and it is a weaker heal than injection. And it burns tactical advantage! ***. Infusion should heal for more than injection (via just a bigger up front heal or a HoT component) or should cost hardly anything (5 energy) since it burns a TA point.

 

Nanotech is worthless... too expensive and way too low an output... not even good as an emergency skill... after trying it out I quickly got rid of it and spent the point somewhere else. I understand some changes are incoming for this skill in 1.2 so that is good to hear.

 

My biggest complaint is that there is almost no effective synergy between the various skills... nothing refreshes the duration of kolto probe except casting kolto probe for the 47,536th time during a fight, tactical vantage is held onto to mechanically almost always spend on surgical probe right after injection and you have to constantly watch the super duper tiny icon on stim boost or CD on stim boost to make sure you always have the regen going (for no other purpose than keeping you power regen at an acceptable level).

 

stim boost to keep power regen acceptable is just a bad mechanic for the operative as a whole... at least the mid DPS tree puts a so-so HoT on stim boost, which is cool.

 

If perative healing is going to be hard to do, it should provide a strong return on investment instead of being 'meh'.

[Xaearth]

Kolto infusion -- it is effectively no better than injection in heal per energy...it has is has a slighty shorter induction time, but it still triggers a GCD (i think) so it doesn't matter much that it is faster than injection... the GCD trigger mean it cost you 1.5 sec of healing anyhow and it is a weaker heal than injection. And it burns tactical advantage! ***. Infusion should heal for more than injection (via just a bigger up front heal or a HoT component) or should cost hardly anything (5 energy) since it burns a TA point.

 

Just to clarify, abilities with a cast/activation time >=1.5s do not trigger the GCD.

 

At least that's the way Sniper's snipe works with alacrity, dunno if I've ever bothered trying Infusion with alacrity.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Xaearth

[Cyrdan]

Yeah i checked... infusion does not trigger a GCD for my DPS build, at least.

 

perhaps I am wrong but I found the single target healing output in terms of HPS and 'Heals per energy' to be better with simply doing an 'injection / surgical probe' combo than a injection/infusion combo. In DPS spec, with faster injection induction spec'ed and then accounting for alacrity rating effects from gear which I am no longer using, the injection/surg-probe combo would be about 2700-3500 HP every 2 seconds (animation delay for surgical probe) for 25 energy where as injection/infusion combo would be about 3400 - 4000 HP every 3-3.2 seconds for 45 energy (not considering crits for either combo). The numbers are obviously higher for heal build but concomitantly for both combos, etc. So why use infusion at all?

 

Im just saying Bioware needs to take a renewed look at op/scoundrel healing skill mechanics and rotations... and probably make some changes. The other two healing classes are easier / more fun to play (opinions of guildies) and quite elegant i think... every skill has it place and utility and there is some synergy between the skills. Not so much for operative.

 

But I would be interested to hear what other lvl 50 healing spec operatives are thinking. All I know is 3-4 ops in my guild started out going full healing and none of us are healing at lvl 50 anymore. I also, since switching to DPS, have not run a single HM with a lvl 50 healing spec op as the healer.

[MrDeas]

diagnostic scan is laughable... needs a huge buff or to simply to be replaced with a another skill that is actually useful. Compared to merc rapid shots, diagnostic scan is incredibly bad.

 

Completely agree, I think the only time I used was either accidentally hitting it (it's bound next to KI) or when I'm completely out of energy in a WZ and just do a *** why not use type of heal.

 

I think I could probably count on one hand the times I've used it and it's never been useful.

[HeavenlyBluE]

1) Operative 31 point aoe healing is too high on energy cost and is very weak.

lol @ ignorance. I thought you said you played "way too much?" You ought to know that RN is our highest hp/energy heal if it hits at least 3 ppl.

 

Then I started healing HM's and.... dang. Really hard to heal through just the damage on the tank (forget anyone else for a moment) AND keep tactical advantage up AND manage power.... lots of wipes/deaths. Even then I figured, "well it is supposed to be hard and maybe I am not geared well enough. maybe the the skill delay bug was really hosing me, etc."

That has to be the fault of your tank's gear? Personally in our nm raids my KP + sorc shielding and the occasional heal are enough for the tank... he takes like no damage.

 

And yea before they fixed it there was a bug where sometimes our KInj would just not land. That was REAL irritating and caused at least a few wipes in our raids. I haven't had it happen in a few weeks though so I'm assuming it's fixed.

 

diagnostic scan is laughable... needs a huge buff or to simply to be replaced with a another skill that is actually useful. Compared to merc rapid shots, diagnostic scan is incredibly bad.

Would much rather have diagnostic scan than the merc version. Ours regenerates 2 energy on a crit and has +24% to crit. Mercs doesn't drop their heat.. the only advantage is that they can cast it on the move.

 

Kolto infusion -- it is effectively no better than injection in heal per energy...it has is has a slighty shorter induction time, but it still triggers a GCD (i think) so it doesn't matter much that it is faster than injection... the GCD trigger mean it cost you 1.5 sec of healing anyhow and it is a weaker heal than injection.

KInf is the perfect emergency heal - an ideal tool for when you need to blow your energy bar for more throughput. Like you said, it's another KInj that casts in 1.25s instead of 1.66s. And your understanding of mechanics is wrong, the GCD ends as soon as the heal is finished casting. You can prove it by chaining 2 KInf's together with no delay.

 

Completely agree, I think the only time I used was either accidentally hitting it (it's bound next to KI) or when I'm completely out of energy in a WZ and just do a *** why not use type of heal.

It's no wonder you think operative healing is bad if you don't use diagnostic scan. What do you do when you drop below ~68 energy? Cast another heal and drop an energy tier? Or stand there with your thumb up your butt? A diagnostic scan over 2.5s is right around 900 healing (more than a non-crit tick of 2 stack KP), and restores about 3.65 energy (varies based on your crit). I'm guessing you just waste that time. Every 7 diagnostic scans I do is another KInj, that you aren't casting - not to mention the 6300 healing from the diagnostic scans themselves.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Dulark]

lol @ ignorance. I thought you said you played "way too much?" You ought to know that RN is our highest hp/energy heal if it hits at least 3 ppl.

 

its OUR highest HPS.

Compare it to Sith Sorcerers 31 pointer.

Theirs aoe cast from 30m, no target limit, heals every second.

Our aoe is melee cast, 4person target limit, heals every few seconds.

 

 

That has to be the fault of your tank's gear? Personally in our nm raids my KP + sorc shielding and the occasional heal are enough for the tank... he takes like no damage.

 

Youre just guessing here about what/who his party member was.

 

And yea before they fixed it there was a bug where sometimes our KInj would just not land. That was REAL irritating and caused at least a few wipes in our raids. I haven't had it happen in a few weeks though so I'm assuming it's fixed.

 

So how is our class being bugged a positive thing?

Would much rather have diagnostic scan than the merc version. Ours regenerates 2 energy on a crit and has +24% to crit. Mercs doesn't drop their heat.. the only advantage is that they can cast it on the move.

 

So we put 4 talent points into a spell that heals for very little, over a very long time and we have to channel it. Seems like they didnt think it through tbh since you spend alot of points on it and almost never use this ability.

KInf is the perfect emergency heal - an ideal tool for when you need to blow your energy bar for more throughput. Like you said, it's another KInj that casts in 1.25s instead of 1.66s. And your understanding of mechanics is wrong, the GCD ends as soon as the heal is finished casting. You can prove it by chaining 2 KInf's together with no delay.

 

Static Barrier + Innervate

Resurgence + Innervate

 

2 global cooldowns, instant healing, not tied to a secondary resource. So its not the perfect emergency heal, its just what was left after they gave all the good toys to the inquisitards and the coconut hunters.

 

It's no wonder you think operative healing is bad if you don't use diagnostic scan. What do you do when you drop below ~68 energy? Cast another heal and drop an energy tier? Or stand there with your thumb up your butt? A diagnostic scan over 2.5s is right around 900 healing (more than a non-crit tick of 2 stack KP), and restores about 3.65 energy (varies based on your crit). I'm guessing you just waste that time. Every 7 diagnostic scans I do is another KInj, that you aren't casting - not to mention the 6300 healing from the diagnostic scans themselves.

 

The HPS is still lower than other classes, the burst healing is still lower than other classes, the utility is still lower than other classes (its even lower than Coconut hunter healers).

You manage to put more effort into your healing/resource management/positioning (youre basically melee) than the other healers, youd think you can outperform all of them because of all the busywork tied to your class... WRONG, youre not cool looking darth maul or Boba fett, youre the bottom of the foodchain. If BW gets some new toys in and neither the Bounty hunters nor inquisitors want them and were not feeling like adding a new healing class into the game then sure Agents may have these new toys, otherwise be happy with your weak healing, no utility, no reward class/spec.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Paralassa
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[stinkybits]

I don't see a problem so far. Myself and a sorc healer generally heal our HM OPS and have very little problems. HOTs are they key to this class. Juggling KP on most of the raid while throwing out injections or infusions as needed are how it works. I also use the 31 point ability on cool down on the melee group. If you are relying on Kinj for tact advantages, you are playing the class wrong, especially if you have the 4 piece set bonus. I try to always use KInf if possible or surgical probe if the person is below 30% or my energy is low.

[Sun-Runner]

I don't see a problem so far. Myself and a sorc healer generally heal our HM OPS and have very little problems. HOTs are they key to this class. Juggling KP on most of the raid while throwing out injections or infusions as needed are how it works. I also use the 31 point ability on cool down on the melee group. If you are relying on Kinj for tact advantages, you are playing the class wrong, especially if you have the 4 piece set bonus. I try to always use KInf if possible or surgical probe if the person is below 30% or my energy is low.

 

The sorcerer is carrying you (assuming equivalent gear and skill levels). I assume your group is running 8-person operations and not 16-person operations?

[Attaraxia]

HOTs are they key to this class

 

Juggling KP on most of the raid while throwing out injections or infusions as needed are how it works.

 

I also use the 31 point ability on cool down on the melee group.

 

If you are relying on Kinj for tact advantages, you are playing the class wrong, especially if you have the 4 piece set bonus.

 

I try to always use KInf if possible.

 

I've broken your post down to the parts where you clearly don't understand how to play an operative, are just flat out incorrect, claim something impossible under current energy regen mechanics, or show signs of underlying insanity.

 

Before you say "but I cleared HM ops like dis" allow me to remind you that you can clear HM ops even if you bind every key on your keyboard to Diagnostic Scan, and play by smashing your face into it repeatedly, so long as the raid is competent and you have a sorc as the other healer.

[Absalon]

How about having RN refresh KP? That would make RN more powerful/useful and reduce some of the micro-management.

[Oghier]

I've broken your post down to the parts where you clearly don't understand how to play an operative, are just flat out incorrect, claim something impossible under current energy regen mechanics, or show signs of underlying insanity.

 

Before you say "but I cleared HM ops like dis" allow me to remind you that you can clear HM ops even if you bind every key on your keyboard to Diagnostic Scan, and play by smashing your face into it repeatedly, so long as the raid is competent and you have a sorc as the other healer.

 

Seconded. Every sentence you quoted from Stinkybits indicates that he's learned all the wrong things, almost certainly by being part of a group where the other healer carries the load. Combine that with largely forgiving endgame content, and you have an opportunity to be wrong about everything while wearing full rakata.

 

HoT-based class. Heh.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Oghier

[Reixxer]

i began to suspect that in order to appease us, they will buff our healing to make us more viable in healing rather than the current jackaaass of all trades but master of none.

 

so at least others will say hey u heal so much better now, so be happy n be a healer now u oughta be grateful!!

[Sun-Runner]

i began to suspect that in order to appease us, they will buff our healing to make us more viable in healing rather than the current jackaaass of all trades but master of none.

 

so at least others will say hey u heal so much better now, so be happy n be a healer now u oughta be grateful!!

 

Your optimism is touching. It also happens to disagree rather severely with reality, but, well, optimism normally does.

 

Per Bioware Austin's released information on how they prioritize their efforts, we will not be appeased. We simply lack the population in order to ever be a priority enough to get fixed. That their method ensures that we will never have the population in order to be a priority ... appears to have escaped them.

 

Not that this is surprising. Many things appear to escape them.

[stinkybits]

I guess you guys are correct since you posted so many constructive counters to what I said. OP healing is largely HoT based. I'm sorry if you all can't understand that and play to it's advantages. 3 of our 5 heals are HoTs and KP is the one you should be most concerned with. Spike damage is take care of with the others two. If you aren't playing this way, then I understand why you'd be having issues.

[Attaraxia]

I guess you guys are correct since you posted so many constructive counters to what I said. OP healing is largely HoT based. I'm sorry if you all can't understand that and play to it's advantages. 3 of our 5 heals are HoTs and KP is the one you should be most concerned with. Spike damage is take care of with the others two. If you aren't playing this way, then I understand why you'd be having issues.

 

I generally find that stupidity has an Event Horizon. That means a point beyond which nothing can return.

 

You sir, are across the Stupidity Event Horizon. You lack understanding of this class to such a significant degree that there is no saving you, because you've convinced yourself that everyone else in the world is wrong.

 

Not that it will help, considering you're too far gone to save... but did you ever think that maybe (just maybe) if everyone is telling you that you're wrong, that you might be... wrong?

[Sun-Runner]

I guess you guys are correct since you posted so many constructive counters to what I said. OP healing is largely HoT based. I'm sorry if you all can't understand that and play to it's advantages. 3 of our 5 heals are HoTs and KP is the one you should be most concerned with. Spike damage is take care of with the others two. If you aren't playing this way, then I understand why you'd be having issues.

 

Would you like me to show you the math? Would the maths and the numbers convince you?

 

I suspect it won't, but, honestly, answer the question. Would it help you understand the problem?

Edited February 19, 2012 by Sun-Runner

[Andreasus]

How about having RN refresh KP? That would make RN more powerful/useful and reduce some of the micro-management.

 

 

I like

[stinkybits]

I generally find that stupidity has an Event Horizon. That means a point beyond which nothing can return.

 

You sir, are across the Stupidity Event Horizon. You lack understanding of this class to such a significant degree that there is no saving you, because you've convinced yourself that everyone else in the world is wrong.

 

Not that it will help, considering you're too far gone to save... but did you ever think that maybe (just maybe) if everyone is telling you that you're wrong, that you might be... wrong?

 

Let me guess, you are considered witty among your friends?

 

So when you say everyone, are you taking about the three other trolls that made similar responses to yours? I don't need to see mathematics. I understand my class and how its mechanics work. I think some of you need to look back through the tree, get some more play time under your belt and play to the class strengths versus whining about weaknesses.

 

Have fun!

[Attaraxia]

Let me guess, you are considered witty among your friends?

 

So when you say everyone, are you taking about the three other trolls that made similar responses to yours? I don't need to see mathematics. I understand my class and how its mechanics work. I think some of you need to look back through the tree, get some more play time under your belt and play to the class strengths versus whining about weaknesses.

 

Have fun!

 

You sir, are across the Stupidity Event Horizon. You lack understanding of this class to such a significant degree that there is no saving you, because you've convinced yourself that everyone else in the world is wrong.

 

I only repeat myself in moments of extreme idiocy. This is one such moment. You're actually just about to hit the singularity, that's how far down you are.

[stephenjohnp]

Operative healers are severely lacking.

 

Only 3 heals you'll ever be using is Kolto Injection, Surgical Probe & Kolto Probe.

 

Recuperative Nanotech and Kolto Infusion are entirely worthless. The latter simply being worthless due to it's massive cost and pathetic cast time and the former due to its massive energy cost and small range.

Edited February 19, 2012 by stephenjohnp

[Sun-Runner]

I don't need to see mathematics.

"The truth doesn't matter man! I have an opinion!"

 

I understand my class and how its mechanics work.

The evidence of your posts indicates otherwise.

[Oghier]

I don't need to see mathematics. I understand my class and how its mechanics work.

 

All snark aside, these two statements cannot be made in the same sentence without a healthy dose of irony (at best). It's almost performance art, representing the mechanics of confirmation bias.

[stinkybits]

I know you kids are trolling, and that's fine. It's the state of these games (and our society) now. To the person(s) who actually had interest in the topic and discussion, nothing compares to actually playing and learning. You can make theoretical spreadsheets and create perfect rotations, but that all goes to **** when it comes to actual boss fights and specific situations. There is no combat log to support people who argue about this anyway. This class is HoT based and that needs to be your focus. Listening to people that spend more time posting snarky **** in forums than playing the game is not the type of person you want to learn from. Good luck and have fun.

 

To the trolls, I hope your lives gets better.

[KeltikTwo]

I know you kids are trolling, and that's fine. It's the state of these games (and our society) now. To the person(s) who actually had interest in the topic and discussion, nothing compares to actually playing and learning. You can make theoretical spreadsheets and create perfect rotations, but that all goes to **** when it comes to actual boss fights and specific situations. There is no combat log to support people who argue about this anyway. This class is HoT based and that needs to be your focus. Listening to people that spend more time posting snarky **** in forums than playing the game is not the type of person you want to learn from. Good luck and have fun.

 

To the trolls, I hope your lives gets better.

 

Initially, they were correcting you, not trolling. SInce you ignored them, and thier helpfull offer to prove themselves, they started to troll.

 

Doesn't mean they are wrong though.

If you still feel that you are a strong healer, fair play to you but if like me, you have all 3 healer archetypes and have tested them in identical circumstances (only variation was as an operative, I have a sorc rather than a sage as my secondary healer, my other 2 are republic) you'll know just how much easier you can make your second healers life, by simply not playing your op/smug healer.