just want to know who does most dps (pve)

[jsilvers]

ive read a lot of threads and kinda feel torn. i really like watchman and their survivability but at the same time i kinda feel like they kill slow (or may just be me) is combat or force any better i mean i could just try out but wanted to know others opinions. heres my scenerio let say you are gonna fight 2 standard mobs and a strong with watchman i usually start with force leap then opportune strike and slash to finish one. next i use force sweep then pommel strike that usually kills second then strong is force leap, overload saber, zealous strike, merciless slash, cauterize then usually do that again with some zen and strikes when needed. now i could be play watchman all wrong but i kinda just have a feeling that i should be doing more (could be me too) im level 44 so maybe making it to 50 could be that game changer but like i said just wanted to get some opinions thanks Edited February 18, 2012 by jsilvers

[Hizoka]

when watchmen is played correctly it is the highest sustained DPS in game.

[FobManX]

when watchmen is played correctly it is the highest sustained DPS in game.

 

QFT(assuming you get 100% uptime or something close to it)

[HollowVamp]

QFT(assuming you get 100% uptime or something close to it)

 

yeah watchman is superior. the other ones are more fun imo though

[MaceSW]

when watchmen is played correctly it is the highest sustained DPS in game.

 

Based on what information?

[MastaGigs]

when watchmen is played correctly it is the highest sustained DPS in game.

 

I take it you have never grouped with a good sniper/gunslinger, my marauder buddy (anni spec) cant stand having me in his party. Orbital on packs, snipe to follow through and series on boss and elites, nothing lives long enough short of a boss for him to start on.

 

At the same time he loves me lol, we have never hit an enrage on any boss while we dps, heck we have even saved the day when the heals an tank fail and bite it. Swap argo and kite ftw, pretty decent combo for hard modes.

[Hizoka]

I take it you have never grouped with a good sniper/gunslinger, my marauder buddy (anni spec) cant stand having me in his party. Orbital on packs, snipe to follow through and series on boss and elites, nothing lives long enough short of a boss for him to start on.

 

At the same time he loves me lol, we have never hit an enrage on any boss while we dps, heck we have even saved the day when the heals an tank fail and bite it. Swap argo and kite ftw, pretty decent combo for hard modes.

 

i have many times. Watchmen when played right (which is currently the hardest spec in game to play right) is the top DPS.

[CivicTiger]

lol. if you think watchman can outdamage combat you make me lol.

they out dmg us in wz and thats it. in pve/single target you can say bye-bye to a mob faster fighting it as a combat compared to a watchman.

[Hizoka]

lol. if you think watchman can outdamage combat you make me lol.

they out dmg us in wz and thats it. in pve/single target you can say bye-bye to a mob faster fighting it as a combat compared to a watchman.

 

you are funny, its kinda sad how wrong you are... Combat simply cannot compete with watchmen...

[Apocalypse-]

lol. if you think watchman can outdamage combat you make me lol.

they out dmg us in wz and thats it. in pve/single target you can say bye-bye to a mob faster fighting it as a combat compared to a watchman.

 

On a 20k mob, sure. On a mob where you're responsible for 200-300k of the damage (ie most raiding), Watchman pulls ahead.

 

If you take the council* as a DPS race, two equally played Sentinels one Juyo, one Ataru, should manage the 120k health about equally and come down mostly to who won the RNG. However, if they're equal, but we can both agree that Ataru is faster to start, then "top speed" so to speak favors watchman and the larger the mob, the larger the difference is going to be.

*Moving the Watchman sentinel to his own group so Zen is available

[Asphen]

Hizoka is wrong in this thread.

 

 

He doesn't even understand the difference between 'requires two lightsabers' vs 'attacks with both weapons if you have them'.

 

Blade rush is spammed lots, and has the 'Requires two lightsabers'. No 67% accuracy off hand attacks for Combat.

 

Blade rush auto procs an Ataru strike, and can proc it's OWN ataru stike (you can get two)

 

Also, regardless of what the tooltops on Mercless Slash and Bladestorm say, Bladestorm has a coefficent of 1.87. Ever notice how Merciless slash never hits as hard as it should, but Bladestorm always rocks like a truck? That's because of the coefficent.

 

The focus cost on Combat abilites is dirt cheap.

 

Zen is also wayyyy stronger DPS in Ataru than it would ever be for Juyo.

 

 

 

Watchman is cool and all, but the more you know....

[Hizoka]

Hizoka is wrong in this thread.

 

 

He doesn't even understand the difference between 'requires two lightsabers' vs 'attacks with both weapons if you have them'.

 

Blade rush is spammed lots, and has the 'Requires two lightsabers'. No 67% accuracy off hand attacks for Combat.

 

Blade rush auto procs an Ataru strike, and can proc it's OWN ataru stike (you can get two)

 

Also, regardless of what the tooltops on Mercless Slash and Bladestorm say, Bladestorm has a coefficent of 1.87. Ever notice how Merciless slash never hits as hard as it should, but Bladestorm always rocks like a truck? That's because of the coefficent.

 

The focus cost on Combat abilites is dirt cheap.

 

Zen is also wayyyy stronger DPS in Ataru than it would ever be for Juyo.

 

 

 

Watchman is cool and all, but the more you know....

 

you couldn't be more wrong, no matter how much you buff Blade storm it still doesn't hit as hard as Merciless slash, plus you GREATLY underestimate the damage from the dots. Combat simply is worse at everything compared to Watchmen, on top of that its got TONS of worthless talents you must take.

[Asphen]

Bladestorm hits much harder than you thing it does, and even more so when talented.

 

 

It also cost 2 focus, and has a 9 second cooldown, and could always crit.

 

 

You can say what you want about the dot damage, but I completely undertsand how much it does. You don't underatand that overload saber has a huge cooldown, and Ataru form deals tons on damage also, constantly.

 

 

Overload saber burns out, and you may refresh a cataurize dot. Ataru procs just keep on trucking.

 

Oh - you know how you can spec more damage out of Burns, Combat does that exact same thing with Ataru Form/Blade Storm/Blade Rush. Which on do you think gets more use? Hint" Your burns aren't also on.

 

Combat also builds more focus / is cheaper focus wise. Combat using Strike less often, and Strike is the only non-special attack we have, so it uses standard accuracy instead of special accuracy.

 

 

With combat, you can mod out every single piece of accuracy out of your gear, and put in more power/crit/surge.

 

 

AND - there are no 67% off hand attacks when using combat. Tell me again what attacks you are using when you don't use Cataurize or Mercliess Slash??

Edited February 20, 2012 by Asphen

[Asphen]

Also for this, LOL at Zen in Juyo form

 

 

A Watch has around/over 50% crit chance with burns anyways. So out of his 'six' next fo'sure burn crits, he would have critted with three of them anyways.

 

So you burned Zen to get just three more burn crits? Whoa - MASSIVE ZEN EFFECT.

 

 

 

Ataru Zen stomps it into the ground for damage output.

[Hizoka]

Bladestorm hits much harder than you thing it does, and even more so when talented.

 

 

It also cost 2 focus, and has a 9 second cooldown, and could always crit.

 

 

You can say what you want about the dot damage, but I completely undertsand how much it does. You don't underatand that overload saber has a huge cooldown, and Ataru form deals tons on damage also, constantly.

 

 

Overload saber burns out, and you may refresh a cataurize dot. Ataru procs just keep on trucking.

 

Oh - you know how you can spec more damage out of Burns, Combat does that exact same thing with Ataru Form/Blade Storm/Blade Rush. Which on do you think gets more use? Hint" Your burns aren't also on.

 

Combat also builds more focus / is cheaper focus wise. Combat using Strike less often, and Strike is the only non-special attack we have, so it uses standard accuracy instead of special accuracy.

 

 

With combat, you can mod out every single piece of accuracy out of your gear, and put in more power/crit/surge.

 

 

AND - there are no 67% off hand attacks when using combat. Tell me again what attacks you are using when you don't use Cataurize or Mercliess Slash??

Watchmen has no issue with focus, if you think it does it only futher proves how bad you are with the spec. Deadly Saber has a 12 second cooldown yes but if you play right it stays up nearly all the time doing unmidigated damage unlike combats ataru procs.

 

Also it shows how little you have done at end game NONE of the level 58 enhancments have and option for anything but accuracy on them. Not to mention if you think extra accuracy lowers armor you just need to stop posting all together

[Asphen]

Once again you ego is holding you back from good gameplay.

 

 

If you are not getting any effect from the accuracy because you have too much. Then no matter what you have too much. It's like having nothing.

 

 

there are still 56 mods. Let your ego go. Lots and Lots of 56 mods with power/crit/surge

 

 

 

EDIT: Look harder. There are indeed 58 enhancements that don't have accuracy. Of of the top of my head the Knight Heavy Armor Boots and the Smuggler off hand weapon are two of them I can tell you without looking.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Asphen

[Hizoka]

Once again you ego is holding you back from good gameplay.

 

 

If you are not getting any effect from the accuracy because you have too much. Then no matter what you have too much. It's like having nothing.

 

 

there are still 56 mods. Let your ego go. Lots and Lots of 56 mods with power/crit/surge

 

 

 

EDIT: Look harder. There are indeed 58 enhancements that don't have accuracy. Of of the top of my head the Knight Heavy Armor Boots and the Smuggler off hand weapon are two of them I can tell you without looking.

 

so you think your raid is going to give you an extra 8 tokens just because??? wow dude who is the one with the ego now.

[Asphen]

I know of those two off the top of my head because out smuggler already has his off hand weapon, and off hand weapons seem to drop pretty common.

 

And no one else seems to want the knight boots. I'll just take them, get the heavy armor versions, strip out the enhancements.

 

 

It isn't too bad. Plus the 56 enhancements are easy to get, and are better than having overinflated accuracy.

[Ainianu]

Hizoka is wrong in this thread.

 

 

He doesn't even understand the difference between 'requires two lightsabers' vs 'attacks with both weapons if you have them'.

 

Blade rush is spammed lots, and has the 'Requires two lightsabers'. No 67% accuracy off hand attacks for Combat.

 

Blade rush auto procs an Ataru strike, and can proc it's OWN ataru stike (you can get two)

 

Also, regardless of what the tooltops on Mercless Slash and Bladestorm say, Bladestorm has a coefficent of 1.87. Ever notice how Merciless slash never hits as hard as it should, but Bladestorm always rocks like a truck? That's because of the coefficent.

 

The focus cost on Combat abilites is dirt cheap.

 

Zen is also wayyyy stronger DPS in Ataru than it would ever be for Juyo.

 

 

 

Watchman is cool and all, but the more you know....

 

This is right

 

Without going into too much detail...

 

Watchman/Combat are fairly close on boss type fights (strong or above id say) with Combat gaining an edge if gear is good (likewise watchman will seem better if gear is not so good)

 

Focus will own both other spec's on groups of enemies and its not too bad on bosses still.

 

Focus sadly is not that good for flashpoints/heroics due to being limited in its dps if your using CC

 

 

Those that claim watchman to be so superior likely have either 1: not tried combat spec and are simply going by other people who also never tried it , or 2: tried it with really poor gear and/or did not figure out how it plays.

And to those that claim watchman is harder to play... lol again, just repeating what other people who have not experimented are saying

 

 

I personally would advise EVERY player to experiment with spec's rather than just to go on what others say, you may find something new, it is a new game still after all and just because someone says one spec is the best one month....

[Hizoka]

This is right

 

Without going into too much detail...

 

Watchman/Combat are fairly close on boss type fights (strong or above id say) with Combat gaining an edge if gear is good (likewise watchman will seem better if gear is not so good)

 

Focus will own both other spec's on groups of enemies and its not too bad on bosses still.

 

Focus sadly is not that good for flashpoints/heroics due to being limited in its dps if your using CC

 

 

Those that claim watchman to be so superior likely have either 1: not tried combat spec and are simply going by other people who also never tried it , or 2: tried it with really poor gear and/or did not figure out how it plays.

And to those that claim watchman is harder to play... lol again, just repeating what other people who have not experimented are saying

 

 

I personally would advise EVERY player to experiment with spec's rather than just to go on what others say, you may find something new, it is a new game still after all and just because someone says one spec is the best one month....

i have been experimenting with every spec since july back in the beta when the class was almost totally different. I have a marauder anda sentinel i nearly full rakatta Combat simply does not compete with a properly played watchmen. The only people who think so are the ones who have never played with a good watchmen or are incappable of playing watchmen well.

[Asphen]

OMG dude - because of the survibility of Watchman, I'm usually playing Watchman.

 

 

It is 'slightly' more tricky, but not really. I don't do rotations at all. We're a priority class, not a rotation class, etc.

 

 

It isn't that bad. Stop patting yourself on the back like you deserve a medal because you play the watchman spec.

 

 

 

Please tell me that you aren't one of these guys that 'I don't use Riposte' or 'I don't interrupt people because it messes up my rotation' or 'using mindsear is too hard' people.

[Hizoka]

OMG dude - because of the survibility of Watchman, I'm usually playing Watchman.

 

 

It is 'slightly' more tricky, but not really. I don't do rotations at all. We're a priority class, not a rotation class, etc.

 

 

It isn't that bad. Stop patting yourself on the back like you deserve a medal because you play the watchman spec.

 

 

 

Please tell me that you aren't one of these guys that 'I don't use Riposte' or 'I don't interrupt people because it messes up my rotation' or 'using mindsear is too hard' people.

actually i'm the one who does all the interrupting... i use every bit of the utilty we have because we have the most utility.

 

 

you seem to forget raiding is not always just about what you do to the boss its what you can do for the raid. Watchmen does add in some healing to the raid as well as building centering twice as fast which means you can up the defence of your party by 10% more often, which at times can be more useful then a slight bit of damage.

[Bloedprop]

*grabs popcorn*

[ztee]

Ive just gone back to combat after obtaining a full rakata set. I can say that im kind of surprised how well it does seem to scale. I removed most of my hit (sitting at around 90%) and stacked as much power as i possibly could (ive had the benefit of getting a lot of jedi drops, so im pulling stuff out of rakata gear).

 

I was actually worried about target switching and movement, but i takes no ramp up time and hits hard almost instantly. I think there are some fights that watchman is still stronger, but overall they feel pretty damn close to me.

 

It took a little bit to get used to the leap range again, and only having the 2 focus generators in melee range, but it feels good man.

[Ainianu]

It took a little bit to get used to the leap range again, and only having the 2 focus generators in melee range, but it feels good man.

 

This is how i feel too, whilst watchman feels easier all round to play (especially in pve) and you cant really go wrong with it (i dunno i just feel i cant die due to the healing it does + doc, feels a lot easier)

... the damage comes in faster on Combat and thats just a lot more fun imo,

 

The melee range leap however is the thing in watchman i love the most.