Did ROTJ imply that Leia was favored by their mother over Luke?

[AbelMorvant]

I've been working on my own version of how the prequels would have happened. Forgetting everything about the prequels, EU, etc. Just how I would have imagined it if none of those things were made and there were just the Original Trilogy. I started thinking about which episode the Skywalker kids would be born and was thinking about Luke and Leia's conversation in the Ewok village.

 

Leia says she remembers her mother, which implies that Luke wasn't there. How could she remember her mother and remember how sad she was but not remember having a brother? But they were separated at birth to be hidden from Vader right? Why didn't he go looking in the first most obvious place and looked for the mother of his children?

 

But she could have simply went hiding with Leia, which either way you look at it means that she basically told someone (whether it was Owen Lars or someone else) to get the ugly one(luke) of her shoulders.

 

Why did she choose to care for Leia (even if it wasn't for very long) and not Luke?

[Lingalol]

didnt she die moments after she gave birth?

[AbelMorvant]

didnt she die moments after she gave birth?

 

Well one of the complaints about the PT is that Leia wasn't alive long enough to remember her mother. Maybe the force sensitive can remember subtle things right after birth?

 

But Leia seems to have a firm memory of noit only her mother, but her mother's emotional state as well. I'm not sure about you, but I have no idea what kind of mood my mom was in just a few seconds after my birth (although I'm sure she wasn't happy trying to push my fat *** out of her hoohoo).

[VanorDM]

Why did she choose to care for Leia (even if it wasn't for very long) and not Luke?

 

Well going just on the movies...

 

No one seemed to consider Leia to have the same potential as Luke, when it came to the force. So they put him on Tatooine where Obi-Wan could keep an eye on him and I assume train him as a Jedi if/when the time came.

 

When Luke left Yoda, he mentioned there was another if something happened to Luke. But upto that point no one had spent any time looking for her. Even though both Yoda and Obi-Wan should of known that Leia Orgina was actually Leia Skywalker.

 

Also Vader didn't even know about her, he didn't know he had a daughter until the fight between him and Luke on the 2nd Death Star.

Edited February 17, 2012 by VanorDM

[AbelMorvant]

Well going just on the movies...

I'm interested to know what you're implying here, is there another explaination somewhere in the books/comics?

 

 

No one seemed to consider Leia to have the same potential as Luke, when it came to the force. So they put him on Tatooine where Obi-Wan could keep an eye on him and I assume train him as a Jedi if/when the time came. When Luke left Yoda, he mentioned there was another if something happened to Luke. But upto that point no one had spent any time looking for her. Even though both Yoda and Obi-Wan should of known that Leia Orgina was actually Leia Skywalker. Also Vader didn't even know about her, he didn't know he had a daughter until the fight between him and Luke on the 2nd Death Star.

 

These ideas are sound, but wouldn't it be safe to say that they're just assumption?

 

When Luke talks to Obi-Wan on Degabah in ROTJ Luke figures it out himself and says "Leia" aloud and Obi-Wan seems to agree as if he already knew.

 

Plus only thing I'd think to assume that Vader didn't know was his tone of voice when he mentioned Luke's sister, but I always got a vibe that Vader was kinda saying it in a taunting manner as if "oh yeah, btw, I know about your sister too ********"

[VanorDM]

I'm interested to know what you're implying here, is there another explaination somewhere in the books/comics?

 

Maybe... I haven't gotten that much into the other books/comics myself. But you said in your OP to just consider the movies.

 

Plus only thing I'd think to assume that Vader didn't know was his tone of voice when he mentioned Luke's sister

 

He seemed to be surprised to find out.

 

Here's the quotes from IMDB.

 

Luke: Yoda spoke of another.

Obi-Wan: The other he spoke of is your twin sister.

Luke: But I have no sister.

Obi-Wan: Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remained safely anonymous.

Luke: Leia! Leia is my sister.

 

So clearly Luke didn't know he had a sister at that point until Obi-Wan pointed it out to him.

 

Here's the part where Luke is hiding, and Vader finds out.

 

Darth Vader: You cannot hide forever, Luke.

Luke: I will not fight you.

Darth Vader: Give yourself to the Dark Side. It is the only way you can save your friends. Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for... sister. So, you have a twin sister. Your feelings have now betrayed her, too. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete. If you will not turn to the Dark Side... then perhaps she will...

 

So clearly Vader did not know about her.

[Darth_Malevolent]

I always thought she was talking about her step mother, possible she died when she was young also, and the movies never implied she was adopted either; she had a feeling she was related to Luke. All she said was, she died when she was very young

[AbelMorvant]

I always thought she was talking about her step mother, possible she died when she was young also, and the movies never implied she was adopted either; she had a feeling she was related to Luke. All she said was, she died when she was very young

 

That's a very good point, it was never made clear if the person she was talking about was her biological mother.

[Lugh]

That's a very good point, it was never made clear if the person she was talking about was her biological mother.

 

Because, beyond biology motherhood is all about the woman that guides you to adulthood.

 

[sharkfinsix]

pretty sure she was referring to her adoptive mother. If it is indeed supposed to be her birth mother...well george did lots of dumb things, like how does Darth vader not recognize his own droid he built? But an argument can be made that Liea has the same force potential as Luke, and her memories and feelings were force memories, not actually her own.

[Keihryon]

pretty sure she was referring to her adoptive mother. If it is indeed supposed to be her birth mother...well george did lots of dumb things, like how does Darth vader not recognize his own droid he built? But an argument can be made that Liea has the same force potential as Luke, and her memories and feelings were force memories, not actually her own.

 

About the droids. The only time Vader and 3PO are in the same room, 3PO is strapped to Chewie's back. He has also been wiped of his previous personality, he does act a bit differently in the OT than in the PT. 3PO units were pretty common so it really isn't a stretch for Vader not to recognize the one he built. Without at least removing the gold plating and looking at how he was built.

[jarjarloves]

ORIGINALLY she was talking about her real mother ie before the prequels Luke and Lieas mom didn't die in child birth.

 

here is the full scene

 

LUKE

Leia... do you remember your mother? Your

real mother?

 

LEIA

Just a little bit. She died when I was very

young.

 

LUKE

What do you remember?

 

LEIA

Just...images, really. Feelings.

 

LUKE

Tell me.

 

LEIA

(a little surprised at his insistence)

She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.

(looks up) Why are you asking me all this?

 

He looks away.

 

LUKE

I have no memory of my mother. I never knew

her.

 

LEIA

Luke, tell me. What's troubling you?

 

LUKE

Vader is here...now, on this moon.

 

LEIA (alarmed)

How do you know?

 

LUKE

I felt his presence. He's come for me. He can

feel when I'm near. That's why I have to go.

(facing her) As long as I stay, I'm

endangering the group and our mission here.

(beat) I have to face him.

 

Leia is distraught, confused.

 

LEIA

Why?

 

Luke moves close and his manner is gentle. And very calm.

 

LUKE

He's my father.

 

LEIA

Your father?

 

LUKE

There's more. It won't be easy for you to

hear it, but you must. If I don't make it

back, you're the only hope for the Alliance.

 

Leia is very disturbed by this. She moves away, as if to deny it.

 

LEIA

Luke, don't talk that way. You have a power

I--I don't understand and could never have.

 

LUKE

You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too.

In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The

Force is strong in my family. My father has

it...I have it...and...my sister has it.

 

Leia stares into his eyes. What she sees there frightens her. But

she doesn't draw away. She begins to understand.

 

LUKE

Yes. It's you Leia.

 

LEIA

I know. Somehow...I've always known.

 

LUKE

Then you know why I have to face him.

 

LEIA

No! Luke, run away, far away. If he can feel

your presence, then leave this place. I wish

I could go with you.

 

LUKE

No, you don't. You've always been strong.

 

LEIA

But, why must you confront him?

 

LUKE

Because...there is good in him. I've felt

it. He won't turn me over to the Emperor. I

can save him. I can turn him back to the good

side. I have to try.

 

so we see Liea knows she is adopted and her real mother didn't die in child birth.

 

Obviosly the prequels destroy the entire purpose of this scene and in reality there was no reason for Lucas to kill off Padme during child birth but he did.

[Darth_Malevolent]

ORIGINALLY she was talking about her real mother ie before the prequels Luke and Lieas mom didn't die in child birth.

 

here is the full scene

 

 

 

so we see Liea knows she is adopted and her real mother didn't die in child birth.

 

Obviosly the prequels destroy the entire purpose of this scene and in reality there was no reason for Lucas to kill off Padme during child birth but he did.

 

At the time, her REAL mother to her was probably her adopted mother, even though he emphasized "REAL" doesn't mean she knew she was adopted or what he meant by that. Unless Luke said, hey, you're adopted... or Leia saying my step mother.... I still think she was referring to her step mother, until Luke brought to light they were related

[jarjarloves]

At the time, her REAL mother to her was probably her adopted mother, even though he emphasized "REAL" doesn't mean she knew she was adopted or what he meant by that. Unless Luke said, hey, you're adopted... or Leia saying my step mother.... I still think she was referring to her step mother, until Luke brought to light they were related

 

 

here is the same scene from the offiical novelization

 

 

Leia took his hand. She felt so close to Luke, yet... she couldn't say how. He seemed so lost now, so alone. So distant. She almost couldn't feel his hand in hers. 'What is it, Luke?'

 

He looked down at their intertwined fingers. 'Leia ... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?'

 

The question took her totally by surprise. She'd always felt so close to her adopted parents, it was as if they were her real parents. She almost never thought of her real mother - that was like a dream.

 

Yet now Luke's question made her start. Flashes from her infancy assaulted her - distorted visions of running ... a beautiful woman ... hiding in a trunk. The fragments suddenly threatened to flood her with emotion.

 

'Yes,' she said, pausing to regain her composure. 'Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.'

 

 

Again it's very clear when it was written Luke and Lieas mother didn't die during child birth.

[Darth_Malevolent]

here is the same scene from the offiical novelization

 

 

 

 

 

Again it's very clear when it was written Luke and Lieas mother didn't die during child birth.

 

was this the.. Original novelization? Or a newer edition of the original? lol, just trying ensure this isnt an updated version of the original after the prequels were released

[jarjarloves]

was this the.. Original novelization? Or a newer edition of the original? lol, just trying ensure this isnt an updated version of the original after the prequels were released

 

thats the one from my kindle but comparing it to my original copy the scene is unchanged.

[Darth_Malevolent]

thats the one from my kindle but comparing it to my original copy the scene is unchanged.

 

Then we'll have to wait for Lucas' passing before we repair it all unfortunately

[Raynn]

ORIGINALLY she was talking about her real mother ie before the prequels Luke and Lieas mom didn't die in child birth.

 

here is the full scene

 

 

 

so we see Liea knows she is adopted and her real mother didn't die in child birth.

 

Obviosly the prequels destroy the entire purpose of this scene and in reality there was no reason for Lucas to kill off Padme during child birth but he did.

 

This. Lucas just gave up caring. He could have allowed Padme to live a bit longer to actually match the story he had alrdy put into place, but that would have taken longer. Just have to deal with it, because he's basically given up on trying to please the fans...lol. Even if it does leave huge gaping holes in the story line.

[Darth_Malevolent]

This. Lucas just gave up caring. He could have allowed Padme to live a bit longer to actually match the story he had alrdy put into place, but that would have taken longer. Just have to deal with it, because he's basically given up on trying to please the fans...lol. Even if it does leave huge gaping holes in the story line.

 

Lucas had admitted that he wasn't a very good writer or director in interviews..... why he went ahead and directed the prequels? To prove something to everyone that he could do as good of a job as Irvin Kershner did in Empire Strikes Back or Spielberg did for Indiana Jones. Everyone says Star Wars was saved in editing and even the documentary says the first cut of Star Wars was a disaster... With all these criticisms I think he had something to prove with the prequels.

 

With constantly changing the canon, I think that's to get back at us, he knows what he's doing gets to us as shown in this photo of him wearing a t-shirt that say's "Solo Shot First"

 

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkx4hteXsN1qcq409o1_500.jpg

 

Between us saying the prequels were crap, never accepting Jar Jar Binks- a character he obviously put a lot of emphasis on since he placed him in all 3 movies and an integral part in ROTS. Everything he's doing now, I honestly think it's to get back at us subtly.

 

Think about it this way, Lucas "So you don't like the no at the End of ROTS huh? Boom! Now he says it at the end of ROTJ, Say Something ELSE!!! Hated Jar Jar Binks? Boom! Ewoks can blink, SAY SOMETHING ELSE!!!" lol

[Yarcamos]

pretty sure she was referring to her adoptive mother. If it is indeed supposed to be her birth mother...well george did lots of dumb things, like how does Darth vader not recognize his own droid he built? But an argument can be made that Liea has the same force potential as Luke, and her memories and feelings were force memories, not actually her own.

 

Except, she's not. Luke asks her, "What do you remember about your mother? Your real mother?" Last time I checked, "real" mother has never been used to describe your adoptive mother. The context was clear.

 

I personally don't have a problem with the way it played out (unlike many others things the prequels trounced the original trilogy on.) She says, "She was beautiful, kind, but sad...." I like that. All she could relay to Luke was that her mother was beautiful, kind, "but sad." And, as far as canon now goes, all she knew of her mother was "sadness," given that she died sad that Anakin was "gone."

Edited February 18, 2012 by Yarcamos

[MustrumRidcully]

I seem to remember reading that even one of the older write-ups for the prequels mentions Anakin's wife as "estranged" from him.

 

So it could very well be her knew her to be alive, but not knew that she had birthed children. The Galaxy is also a big place - Vader may never have visited Alderaan, and so never was able to find out that Organa's wife was his former love.

[Raailan]

Firstly, Luke asks "Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?" - it's clear that it was no secret that Leia was adopted.

 

Leia says she remembers, "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young." Someone, probably Bail Organa, told her this. She obviously doesn't remember her dying, so she wasn't old enough to form conscience memory...hence the fact that she says "Just images, really...feelings" when Luke presses her to tell him what she remembers. Or are we thinking that the death of a parent isn't a big deal to a child?

 

Leia doesn't really remember her mother at all - what she does remember is the emotions she felt from her. "Kind, but sad" - which is exactly what Lucas portrayed when Padme's last words were "There is still good in him..."

 

Why doesn't Luke remember her at all? Because Luke was taken away from her as soon as he was named, whereas Leia was held by Obi-wan near her right up to when she died (a couple of minutes). Am I saying that a few minutes is enough to form the memories that Leia claims she has of her mother? No...but then again, who knows how the memory of someone attuned to the Force works, especially a child? Qui-Gon says that if Anakin had been born in the coreworlds that they would have 'identified him early' - it's possible that a new-born baby has latent force ablities that can be detected., such as an acute memory.

 

Long story short: it's better story telling if Padme dies in childbirth, rather than trying to raise one child over the other. Lucas wrote himself into a hole with the whole Leia/Luke conversation, and the solution he came up with was the best he could have done, IMO.