Are there abilities you don't use?

[EliteSeraph]

After reaching the tender level of 20 on my sentinel, its only just now starting to sink in just how many buttons are really required to play this class. I've read about it before, but I'm starting to realize that its not just exaggeration. However, I'm not discouraged by this, but instead welcome the challenge! Unfortunately, though, I may not have enough fingers or enough hotkeys.

 

 

So, that brings me to my question(as the title states):

 

Are there abilities for your sentinel that you find you just don't use all that often?

 

Granted I'm only level 20, so there's a lot left for me to learn about how the class works with all its abilities. One thing I've noticed that kind of irks me is that I'm still having to occasionally weave in the use of the very first, and very standard, focus building attack that does jack for damage. I would love to remove this from my bar to free up room for a more important attack, but its the only focus-builder that isn't on a cooldown. If I'm not hitting an attack every cooldown, I feel like I'm not doing everything I can, and that attack fills the spaces between bigger attacks.

 

Does this change at higher levels? Will I always have to keep it on my bar, or will there be enough focus generating abilities mixed with free attacks to keep things rolling?

 

Also, after looking at a few of the higher level abilities, it seems like there's some redundancy. How many attacks do you really need to just do damage? The anti-healing attack has obvious PVP applications, as does the slow(although 2 points in Inflammation in the watchman tree would save me a button). But while Merciless Slash seems very interesting on paper, its just more damage in a bar that's already overloaded with damage attacks. Granted, I don't know how it actually works, so it might be REALLY good and end up replacing something else, like the baseline ability Slash.

 

 

Anyway, I know this topic has probably been beaten to death. But I'm just curious how each of you higher level Sentinel/Marauders manages all your keys and focus/rage generation at the same time. Any tips or discussion are greatly welcome!

[eeCyaJ]

As a Watchman, I use most of 'em, except for Riposte. For PvE there's probably slightly less buttons to push, but PvP needs most of them.

 

It's an extremely tricky class to play mainly due to the inability to modify the UI. You'll have to learn to memorise when CDs are more or less available at later levels or set up something that allows you to view them at a glance.. For example, you need to have 5 focus for Merciless Slash available almost as soon as it lights up second time around or you'll lose your first Merciless buff. You also need to monitor your burns on your target and whether you can apply again.

Edited February 17, 2012 by eeCyaJ

[EliteSeraph]

Hmm....that's kind of disturbing to hear. I've already bound around 20 keys, and I haven't even picked up the special attacks from the talent trees, or many of the higher level cooldowns.

 

I'm also a little surprised to hear that higher level watchmen literally use everything. I thought each tree would focus a bit on a set of attacks, and use other less. But I guess that's not the case.

[Sleeptastic]

Watchman doesn't use blade storm. That's about it.

[KruelhandJorb]

in pvp I don't use master strike unless someone is getting force choked, otherwise it's too bugg.

 

blade storm isn't something I'm using much either (watchman). I'll use it to stun a weak mob for pommel, but Doc tends to stun enough that I don't need it. I actually can't think of what I have it bound to at the moment

 

Riposte, not in pvp.

[Psybin]

Aye sorry to say there's very few things you never use.

 

speaking as a watchman then I dont tend to use riposte or blade storm. But they are both hotkeyed as sometimes I will use them.

 

And yes, even as watchman you will still use strike on occasion to build focus.

 

There's some things I only tend to use in pvp: crippling throw, leg slash.

 

And some I can only use in pve: pommel, opportune etc.

 

I am also sorry to say it will only get worse as you go up. You will need to find space for:

Merciless, force camo, awe, guarded by the force, inspiration, transcendance, valorous call, dispatch... All of which are awesome abilities you will need to use, in addition to almost everything you already have.

 

The only way to cope with it, is to rebind a lot of your keyboard and then practise, practise, practise. There's also the fact that the way each tree plays, builds focus and spends focus is completely different.

I tried combat again last night after a long time as watchman and found it really hard. And that was just pve, not pvp where it's even more important not to spend all your time looking at your focus bar and ability cooldowns.

[EclatDeGivre]

Well it really depends on what you want to do.

 

No you will always need the classic attack. You need your default focus builder.

 

Inflammation is good. Yeah maybe you can skip it as leg slash has better slow, no cd etc. But if you struggle with your hotkeys, take it. You will respec and get rid of it when you will need the +0.5% on your overall dps

 

Don't worry, sent is not the class you learn at lvl 20 or even at lvl 50. You need time, and step by step you will get better. Sent is able to defeat any opponent at 1v1 (with skill). So every time you are defeated think "Soon, soon i'll take my revenge". But don't say it out loud, Jedis are not supposed to do so.

 

About the skills discussed before :

 

 

In PvP

 

 

I personaly use master strike when my target is stunned, cornered or casting if i don't have interrupt anymore. It has a very high damage and costs no focus. It is also quite scary as the big fat last strike is painful enough for your ennemies to sometimes stop casting to run away from the critical 4m range.

 

I also use blade storm for it's 10m range. When you get bumped or slightly out of range it's quite nice to keep on fighting. When you are switching target and cannot leap again, fill in the gap with BS. Also when you need a burst (BS is the best instant DPS after Merciless slash) it's quite interesting to use it as well.

 

As far as Riposte is concerned, I use it when I need burst and Rebuke (i took the talent). It's very situational but it happened it gave me the few sec of cd reduction to use rebuke. Also Riposte is THE best instant dps. Yeah, it is very hard to use (i mean in the middle of your other 50 hotkeys), yes you need 3 focus point, but this is an other topic. Sometimes, you need some big instant burst, you will never do better than a Riposte/Merciless slash or Riposte/BS. Off GCD is awesome. But it's not a skill to use blindly definitely. Sent is not meant to be a one button AC.

 

 

In PvE

 

 

Master strike stuns weak targets.

BS stuns weak targets.

Riposte crushes weak targets.

 

All three will make you melt weak targets in less than the 6s required for your dots. Enough to me.

 

 

My advice

 

 

Learn to use all of them while you are leveling. Get familiar with your rotation or priority list and when you will get a new ability try to stick it in (at least that's what she said). Then you will be able to remove it and see the difference. Do not already limit yourself by other's preferences. Sentinel is very very versatile and you can take some skills out without hurting your dps.

 

About skills, it is better to use the skills well than to use the good skills. Well of course don't skip OS or cauterize, but all the other can be avoided as far as you use other skills to compensate. Keep your target close, Keep your focus low (don't go beyond 8). Don't skip GCDs. Keep your DoTs up.

 

If you want to do maths and play optimally as the paper says, calculate the different DPS, DPS/Focus, add the skill tree bonuses. You will see that the paper says : use all your skills. But yeah maybe you will need an extra hand, 1 or 2 more eyes and maybe an extra head xD.

[nanohana]

In PvP I don't use Riposte and Master Strike under any circumstances.

The first is just bad and the second is bugged. Outside of that I just don't like rooting myself.

[Novastinger]

It depends on which tree you're spec'ing for, though here's what I don't use as combat tree:

 

1) Slash - It gets replaced by Blade Rush at levels 40+

2) Riposte - It's too costly (3 focus), does less damage than Blade Rush (2 focus when have 3 points in Focused Slash), and the requirement of parry/deflect/dodge prior to being able to use it greatly reduces it's availability. The one time I could see it's usage is in pvp, if you have a lot of focus and want it to assist with some burst to finish someone (as it's off the GCD)

 

 

There's some others which are used rarely, but they still have their usages and deserve a keybind imo.

[iCanUseTheForce]

As Combat, I don't use whatever that burn skill you get is (with the red icon). It's a Watchman thing. And I'm leaning to taking Riposte off my hotbar. For PvP I could see using it, but I don't PvP. It's off the GCD but it'll eat your focus. Plus, the prereq isn't fun for us.

[Talorra]

Watchman doesn't use blade storm. That's about it.

 

You might not, but others of us do. It's great for taking out bomb droids on Karagga.

 

I don't PvP, so yes there are a lot of abilities I don't use. Leg slash comes to mind. No ops boss has moved too quickly so far. Riposte as well, since I'm rarely the main target.

[EclatDeGivre]

Well I don't want to start an off topic discussion again but...

 

@Novastinger : Compare BR to Riposte + strike. Riposte is off GCD so basically when you use Riposte + strike it's taking the same time as doing 1 BR. BR may still be better with Ataru procs, but it's 1 focus for riposte+strike and 2 for BR (with focused slash). However it seems BR is better anyway in terms of stability of usage and even maybe dps as there is the 30% buff after. But after BR wouldn't a riposte+strike be a good deal as it will double the chance of having 1 ataru proc? I don't know I'm not combat.

 

@iCanUseTheForce : If you talk about cauterize, the 6s DoT can be situational (well assuming you play the objectives in WZ). But if you play combat again, I am not sure it will really hurt to take it away from your bar.

 

@Sleeptastic : I agree with Talorra, and you obviously didn't read my post. Blade Storm is definitely useful. Removing it will be a great loss, at least for when you are out of range. And seriously, every is there any sent that never was out of range/being kitted?

 

And yeah in ops, you can remove Riposte as you will barely be hit by anyone. But for leveling, it sure has a great value. Pacify (lvl26) gives you riposte on demand.

Edited February 17, 2012 by EclatDeGivre

[Asphen]

Zero respect for all the scrubs not good enough to use Riposte.

[Novastinger]

@EclatDeGivre

Yeah without a combat log to get averages over many uses it's hard to tell definitely which would be better, Blade Rush, or Riposte + Strike. Though Blade Rush is 1 guaranteed Ataru form hit, plus a chance at a second hit (this second one might be due to bug), while the other has chances of 0-1 Ataru form hits chance (due to not being able to get more than 1 Ataru form hit every 1.5 secs). The +10% extra damage to next focus spender (from Opportune Attack), plus added focus generation of Ataru form hits (from Combat Trance), make it a bigger deal if neither the Riposte or Strike proc the Ataru form hit I feel.

 

In either case, I feel the damage between the two options is so close that I don't use Riposte + Strike. If I could macro Riposte + Strike I might change that, or if I did mostly pvp (pve operations are my main focus).

 

The Pacify usage to guarantee a dodge enabling Riposte is interesting though, I haven't thought of ever doing that.

[FobManX]

As Watchman I never use Blade Storm.

 

I never used Riposte, Opportune Strike, or Pommel either. The latter two were too situational even while leveling that I just didn't bother keybinding them. Riposte just isn't worth the Focus cost for a Sentinel, yeah it's off the GCD but the damage it does is crap.

[GaryCartel]

I'm surprised so many people don't use master strike in PVP. It's such an awesome ability that does plenty damage.

 

I use this all the time. Make sure you get your leg slash on the target. Then try to anticipate which way the target is moving. Position yourself in a way that the target will be in your range for longest amount of time trying to walk away. You'd be surprised how far away you can be from your target and still be hitting it.

[Sleeptastic]

Well I don't want to start an off topic discussion again but...

 

@Novastinger : Compare BR to Riposte + strike. Riposte is off GCD so basically when you use Riposte + strike it's taking the same time as doing 1 BR. BR may still be better with Ataru procs, but it's 1 focus for riposte+strike and 2 for BR (with focused slash). However it seems BR is better anyway in terms of stability of usage and even maybe dps as there is the 30% buff after. But after BR wouldn't a riposte+strike be a good deal as it will double the chance of having 1 ataru proc? I don't know I'm not combat.

 

@iCanUseTheForce : If you talk about cauterize, the 6s DoT can be situational (well assuming you play the objectives in WZ). But if you play combat again, I am not sure it will really hurt to take it away from your bar.

 

@Sleeptastic : I agree with Talorra, and you obviously didn't read my post. Blade Storm is definitely useful. Removing it will be a great loss, at least for when you are out of range. And seriously, every is there any sent that never was out of range/being kitted?

 

And yeah in ops, you can remove Riposte as you will barely be hit by anyone. But for leveling, it sure has a great value. Pacify (lvl26) gives you riposte on demand.

 

 

I don't know how I could read your post, since it came after my post. Though I am a Jedi, so perhaps my connection to the force should have allowed me to foresee it.

[FobManX]

I'm surprised so many people don't use master strike in PVP. It's such an awesome ability that does plenty damage.

 

I use this all the time. Make sure you get your leg slash on the target. Then try to anticipate which way the target is moving. Position yourself in a way that the target will be in your range for longest amount of time trying to walk away. You'd be surprised how far away you can be from your target and still be hitting it.

 

The problem with MS is that, since it's channeled, it's hard to get the full duration of it. If you can though yeah it's awesome.

[mirthEightyOne]

I'm only a level 25 Focus spec, but I already don't use Riposte (can't keep track of it effectively, my loss), Cauterize (not Watchman), Leg Slash (not doing much PvP but should learn this), or Crippling Throw (Blade Storm working well for PvE, maybe need this for PvP).

 

Looking ahead, I probably won't use Pommel Strike (regular rotation works for mobs), Cyclone Slash (Force Sweep will already be in my prime rotation), or Opportune Strike (regular rotation works for mobs).

[Englez]

I find with my Sentinel I spend the entire fight watching my ability bars to see which one is up. With custom UI's and macros it will probably be much less of an issue. I just hope we get those. I have to say though, the damage we put out is ridiculously amazing.

[Talorra]

The only time I use Pommel Strike or Opportune Strike is on dailies. There are so many weak mobs to kill, and force leap + opportune strike is almost always a kill. Follow up with Force Sweep + Pommel and you've downed another, then clean up whatever is left with focused attacks.

 

Sometimes I see them light up on trash pulls in Ops, but I don't bother hitting them. There's so much damage going out and I feel it's best to stay on my normal priority anyway.

[DarthZaneBX]

what's best crew skill for sentinel??

[mirthEightyOne]

Probably Artifice, Synthweaving, Biochem, or Cybertech.

[Vodrin]

Watchman doesn't use blade storm. That's about it.

 

Why would you not use blade storm with a watchman build? Granted it does not apply burns, but mine crits for better than 2.5k with Juyo stacked, has a 10m range, and a reasonable focus cost.

 

On another note I have a total of 40 keybinds for my sent including med pacs, relics, and adrenals. I just use the alt and shift keys plus my standard keybinds to get enough keys available.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Vodrin

[Talorra]

Why would you not use blade storm with a watchman build? Granted it does not apply burns, but mine crits for better than 2.5k with Juyo stacked, has a 10m range, and a reasonable focus cost.

 

It will also proc the damage relics if you have one.