Locustone Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 50 Guardian, 31/10/0 (Defense) Used to run hybrid but then shifted to see how full D runs. From my personal results: Single target threat: I really don't have much problems with. On occasion I will indeed loose threat to the damage dealer. I have 3 different "taunts" to rotate through and Guardian Leap for a little "assist", so I'm ok to reacquire pretty fast. Group threat: Sad panda. 1 group taunt and then 2 group strikes that will break CC if too close. One of the strikes doesn't even hit all the targets...just a random few (yeaaaah...Cyclone Slash ftw! -_- ). In either case, I really have to work to hold on to 3-4 targets. I don't mind. Keeps me on my toes. Occasionally mates might get dinged for some damage, but I manage to wrangle the mobs in and we're fine. ...HOWEVER... Vanguard tank, rolling in the same group as me one day. If I remember correctly, he was 2-3 levels lower. Started off with the Mortar Volley (nice group threat AND damage), used his harpoon maneuver (sorry, don't know Vanguard) and some of his other skills. End result from the multiple multi-mob battles? Only by using Taunt could I break guys off of him...but they soon went back to him. At that moment...I felt a little jaded. Every MMO I've played, I've always used a tank. So I'm used to different patterns, different styles, different "rotations" and I like to try new things. I'm not the best by far...but I am good at my job. That was a kinda heartbreaker. The ease at which that Vanguard could just pull and hold hate, even in mobs. Really made me consider rolling up a Vanguard. Maybe that's by design? I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something that I'm not using properly? Could be. Maybe the Vanguard is SUPPOSED to be a "ultimate tank" with Jedi tanks being "secondary but solid". Couldn't tell ya. Ah well...I'm a glutton for punishment. Playing on a different server and ...rolled another Guardian Tank. This is exactly right, but I'll add further that the Powertech--which is I think the Vangaurd equivalent-tank can hold as good single target threat as Juggs and sometimes better in fights like Karraga where you constanly have to separate from the boss due to the fire patches (in HM) and as you know us Jugg have a distinct disadvantage in the range department... Really as some others have said, I don't want a 2 button mash but at the same time we should be on a level playing field as other tanks. Hell if we can't tank as well as other classes and we have a hard time convincing people we are a good dps class then it makes it very hard to play the class--which is a shame because the general dynamics are fun. I really do hope they take a hard look at this class. I leveled a sniper to 50 which I'm also now raiding with and everytime I play my Jugg I cry inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 This is exactly right, but I'll add further that the Powertech--which is I think the Vangaurd equivalent-tank can hold as good single target threat as Juggs and sometimes better in fights like Karraga where you constanly have to separate from the boss due to the fire patches (in HM) and as you know us Jugg have a distinct disadvantage in the range department... Really as some others have said, I don't want a 2 button mash but at the same time we should be on a level playing field as other tanks. Hell if we can't tank as well as other classes and we have a hard time convincing people we are a good dps class then it makes it very hard to play the class--which is a shame because the general dynamics are fun. I really do hope they take a hard look at this class. I leveled a sniper to 50 which I'm also now raiding with and everytime I play my Jugg I cry inside. And there are some people that are claiming that there isn't any problem with Guardians and Juggernauts. The fact we are a melee class, while many enemies you have to be ranged in order to fight it effectively, is an issue. Plus our defensive ability is similar to a ranged class, we're more prone to getting caught in AoE attacks, because we have to be at point blank range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnicornRainbows Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 First off to people that post about pvp you can not correctly judge anything based on medals or on your own experience until ranked matches come out. We may in fact find that even with our decrease in damage compared to others we are better than some others, thinking prot pally back in wow compared to the others. Therefore all we can do then is check how easy it is to pull threat off one tank compared to others, and this guardians are surely lacking. Some may say I haven't had an issue until dps were at the same gear lvl as me is not valid as some dps do not correctly how to use their class until they do get some gear, not to diminish your own thoughts on your tanking or your own dps, but until meters come out and we can compare with other guilds that is not valid. For all I know your dps didn't know what they were doing till last week. So therefore from what I have seen and with playing a vanguard and a guardian tank vanguards hold aggro insanely better than guardians, the ranged factor is also a huge bonus. Playing a guardian is harder to tank with and therefore more fun for me, but it should not result in less results in single target or aoe than another tank, I can understand give and take say if our threat was better single target and vanguards aoe. Shadow's from what I have seen have a slight issue single target, but are at least decent at aoe. As for our dps we need to wait for logs in order to correctly establish ours are worse in pve, though we do have the 4th encounter in ev that we can test this in. With this being said it is my experience that vig guardians have some pretty good sustained damage if going vig and can hold their own vs some of the others, it isn't as great as some and could use a small buff, but it is not as bad as some make it out. I haven't been able to see a focus spec in pve so I can not comment on them. Therefore I would conclude that we need a buff to our tanking, I would say 100% threat for our tanking stance, or you could make our tank stance a talent in the 4th tier and drop the focus restriction and revamp the rest of our tree to address the lack of defenses or threat increase talents that the other tanks get compared to us. This way dps spec's can't use this unless they want to miss out on some key dps talents. As for dps I would say let our dots/burns scale and if need be increase the bonus on shien/shi-cho form in terms of damage, but I can't see much else being done about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmbuyer Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 WoW threat is +300%, SWToR threat is +50% generation for tanks. That's a huge difference. Sure, WoW threat is now reduced to the point of easy mode non-existence but it sure puts it in perspective as to the difference. I'm not saying we need a drastic increase, but we do need a increase, another 50-75% would do the trick. It's worth reading a bit about why WoW's threat changed to be such a large multiplier. It's disheartening to see SWTOR repeat all of vanilla WoW's decisions, step by step. /shadow kinetic tank //aoe threat is crap until in the 40's ///never ever will tank for a pug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts