Best Spec for Lvl 50 Flashpoints on Hard

[LiveandDieinLA]

I have tanked a few Hard modes and it wasn't very pretty. That being said I am running a combat spec, not watchman, and I have always felt that watchman was the better pve spec, you need to invest in skills that are basically wasted in PVE to get your 31 point combat talent.

 

It is possible, but the fact that we can't throw guard on the healer to decrease their agro, and that we don't have any aoe taunts makes tanking as a sent problematic at best. We are the best non-tank class at tanking, but we will never be as good as a real tank.

 

p.s. Its force attack, not special attack that get the 10% higher accuracy. At least I think it is.

Edited February 25, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA

[khsolo]

As watchman ill love to have crippling throw and the snare that comes with it in combat

[selectah]

Sents can be pretty good offtanks. Watchman has generally a slightly easier time at offtanking (cause of the heals), but if you`r healers are up the task combat is equally efficient, probably even more efficient.

 

We have some limitations in tanking:

 

1. We have no taunt, and thus no possibility to get aggro from main tank (G4-B3 for example).

 

2. We have no aeo taunt and no ability that does more than once dmg as AEO. Explaination: Aggro in SWTOR is not produced trough dmg but through "dmging attacks". That means if another DD does 9 times 5000 dmg on the target and you do 10 times 500 dmg, you have the aggro (or get the aggro). This also works with tanks, but be aware of the 50% aggro increase of tanks. As almost all classes have abilities that dmg more than once at AEO (XS Frighter, Earthquake etc) and we only do have Sweep and the other one (the two swords swing in front of you) which do only one dmg tick per gcd, we most often loose the aggro game.

 

However in sitiations where we have to only hold the aggro of one target, for example Sorno (which is the fight watchman rly shines) we are a beast. Sorno is that good of an example cause we are able to singlehandedly shut down Sornos casts (only of 0 m charge is skilled) and tank him at the same time. All other fights where we have to hold the aggro of one target we are pretty much equal to a tank (combat has more dmg ticks than watchman so combat produces even more aggro there).

[selectah]

Do we know for sure though that Strike is our only basic attack? I think I remember reading/hearing somewhere that all white attacks were considered basic and all yellow were special. That would make every attack Watchman used considered Basic(Cauterize and Overload Saber dot ticks are yellow but the Cauterize attack itself is white and OS procs off white attacks). I'm not 100% certain though which is why I ask because I have the 8% accuracy now...

 

Sorry for double post. What your referring to is the attack type of the attack. All "yellow" attacks are considered force attacks, other than the "white" physical attacks. Strike is as far is i know the only "non-special" attack, cause its the basic attack of a jedi. Sadly there are no indications on the tooltips, but most of the "good" guides for various classes i have read indicate this fact. No beeing sure about that though.

[Apocalypse-]

Do we know for sure though that Strike is our only basic attack? I think I remember reading/hearing somewhere that all white attacks were considered basic and all yellow were special. That would make every attack Watchman used considered Basic(Cauterize and Overload Saber dot ticks are yellow but the Cauterize attack itself is white and OS procs off white attacks). I'm not 100% certain though which is why I ask because I have the 8% accuracy now...

 

Yes, it is confirmed. Dataminers have shown that all skills have a <isspecial=?> tag and Strike (and the other classes default 1 keybind as well) is the only skill that isn't flagged true.

[gunte]

The "optimal" PVE-spec for watchman would be http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRzfGzZhMMZb.1

 

For PVE-combat it would be http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcZhGrbddMorsZG.1

 

Steadfast is highly recommended at combat spec, cause the off-hand has only 56%/66% chance to hit, to begin with. As ataru procs make up a good chunk of your dmg and it can proc twice. Once from mainhand- and once from offhand hits, the more you hit with offhand the better BR dmg will be, as it forces ataru procs on hits.

 

At watchman spec accuracy above 98%/108% is pretty much useless, as operation bosses have 8% defense chance (which is neglected by 108% special attack accuracy, as you only have one non-special attack which is strike).

 

I for myself tested the dps of both specs this by killing the same (high hp) enemy myself 10 times with each spec. Results were that combat did with optimal results excel watchman sometimes if everything went smooth, but could also be far inferior if some things went wrong. With watchman i did basically the same dps every time. That is with me beeing full T3 (Rakata) equipped except for my mainhand which is T2 PVP.

 

that is not the best spec for Wachman PvE, if your not using leap in your rotation your missing out on focus which means lower DPS.

 

I recommend this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRMfGzZhMd.1

 

with the extra focus from force leap it becomes a very nice focusbuilder and you will find that you hardly use strike with this build. Regrettably that means only 15 % less damage from aoe but its worth it in every way. force camo should take care of most aoe attacks from the bosses anyway.

[Aaramis]

Best spec for a level 50 HM flashpoint or operation is entirely dependant on the individual fight.

 

As a 50 shadow who's run a lot of flashpoints from a tank point of view, and with a sentinel alt in which I've tried out all 3 skill trees, I see a lot of fights where I can easily envision one skill tree being useful - and that particular skill spec changes almost every other boss I come across.

 

I've seen some fights where it's a tank and spank and time is of the essence before the boss rages - in which case Combat could be the most useful; I've seen other bosses where it's a slightly longer fight and a bit more heal-centric, in which case Watchman would prevail; and other bosses which spawn a host of adds that need to be taken down asap, in which case a Focus specced Sent would do nicely.

 

 

Overall, I'd probably give the nod to Watchman for overall PvE survivability (as noted above with the force camo damage immunity, as well as self-heals), but there are instances where Combat and Focus could prove incredibly useful.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Aaramis

[ErisktheRed]

that is not the best spec for Wachman PvE, if your not using leap in your rotation your missing out on focus which means lower DPS.

 

I recommend this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bIbRrRMfGzZhMd.1

 

with the extra focus from force leap it becomes a very nice focusbuilder and you will find that you hardly use strike with this build. Regrettably that means only 15 % less damage from aoe but its worth it in every way. force camo should take care of most aoe attacks from the bosses anyway.

 

I agree 100%. That 1 focus in leap adds A LOT. Leap is a vital focus builder in PvE. Allows me to use strike much less. Force camo 100% has saved me more times than any 30% AoE reduction, esp bosses that are melee unfriendly, which well are most .

[gunte]

Best spec for a level 50 HM flashpoint or operation is entirely dependant on the individual fight.

 

As a 50 shadow who's run a lot of flashpoints from a tank point of view, and with a sentinel alt in which I've tried out all 3 skill trees, I see a lot of fights where I can easily envision one skill tree being useful - and that particular skill spec changes almost every other boss I come across.

 

I've seen some fights where it's a tank and spank and time is of the essence before the boss rages - in which case Combat could be the most useful; I've seen other bosses where it's a slightly longer fight and a bit more heal-centric, in which case Watchman would prevail; and other bosses which spawn a host of adds that need to be taken down asap, in which case a Focus specced Sent would do nicely.

 

 

Overall, I'd probably give the nod to Watchman for overall PvE survivability (as noted above with the force camo damage immunity, as well as self-heals), but there are instances where Combat and Focus could prove incredibly useful.

 

Im not sure i agree with this. Ive run ops with both combat and Watchman and im not sure theres any situation or boss where id say combat is more useful. Did you have any special in mind?

[Stridar]

I know most people are saying Watchman on here, but I disagree.

 

Now it may be because I'm geared and have the stats I need, but as a Combat Sentinel I out DPS all my guildies in an EV8 run.

 

The best measurement of DPS so far (outside of PvP) is the 2nd to last fight in EV8. This is because in the fight, everyone gets their own mini-boss to kill. Each run through I kill my 78k boss before any other DPS kills their 78k/48k bosses. Also, I skipped a run last night and it took them about 35m longer to complete haha (that could be other factors besides DPS. ie - op awareness, builds, etc)

 

I like Combat for single target burst dps. I burn down enemies QUICK, and I constantly put out hard DPS over a fight. I regularly pull aggro off tanks in HMs. Granted, I lack the DOTs and AoE that WM has, but I think Combat makes up for it in the pure burst factor. It's also a single target spec, which means its great for bosses, OK for trash. But bosses are what matter anyways.

 

Bottom line is my play style is burn them quick before they know what hit them, so it works for me. And my guildies notice when I'm not in an op with them, so that says something I suppose.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Stridar

[Beddo]

I can't wait to see numbers from Watchman vs. Focus in PvE. I regulary run Ops and HM Ops with my focus spec sent. (Full columi / champion sabers) and have no issues with running out of focus and with non-stop transcendance that is HUGE for my team. I realise our bread and butter move is AoE and it can be challenging with CC mobs but bosses still take 4200 dmg with guaranteed crit every time I hit force sweep.

 

I run with another sentinel almost identically geared who is watchman and we seem to be on par as far as damage goes.

 

In PvP I tend to do more damage due to Force Sweep and AOE Slash, as well as my added dmg reduction.

 

Ultimately I will have to take Watchman for a test run and see what all the hype is about. I was combat to 50 and agree with most of what I'm seeing. It's great for burning 1 guy down, but I struggled to keep focus after that..

[gunte]

I know most people are saying Watchman on here, but I disagree.

 

Now it may be because I'm geared and have the stats I need, but as a Combat Sentinel I out DPS all my guildies in an EV8 run.

 

The best measurement of DPS so far (outside of PvP) is the 2nd to last fight in EV8. This is because in the fight, everyone gets their own mini-boss to kill. Each run through I kill my 78k boss before any other DPS kills their 78k/48k bosses. Also, I skipped a run last night and it took them about 35m longer to complete haha (that could be other factors besides DPS. ie - op awareness, builds, etc)

 

I like Combat for single target burst dps. I burn down enemies QUICK, and I constantly put out hard DPS over a fight. I regularly pull aggro off tanks in HMs. Granted, I lack the DOTs and AoE that WM has, but I think Combat makes up for it in the pure burst factor. It's also a single target spec, which means its great for bosses, OK for trash. But bosses are what matter anyways.

 

Bottom line is my play style is burn them quick before they know what hit them, so it works for me. And my guildies notice when I'm not in an op with them, so that says something I suppose.

 

Ye sure burst is great, love bursting down bosses.. :S

 

If only i had that link where they did a complete DPS check for all the specs and came to the same conslusion as myself, Watchman outdoes Combat with about 50%. (for any mob above elite rank). Gonna ask my friend for it, hopefully ill be able to post it here.

 

Though i gotta say im tired of this discussion, i know which spec is better, most people do, i should probably just let the others believe what they want

[AstralProjection]

A little misinformation at the beginning about Combat.

 

Combat will probably be *slightly* better DPS on trash mobs. On a high HP mob, e.g. FP/Op Bosses, it can't keep up with the damage Watchman can put out.

 

By design - Juyo form gets stronger over time, Ataru has random chance to "burst" for extra damage.

 

In a short time span, Combat looks like the best - once DoT's are properly applied and all ticking, and Merciless builds up, Combat loses to Watchman.

 

Similarly, in fights against players getting healed in PVP, Watchman will eventually win out, and is usually enough to overcome a good healer's healing, definitely is with a little help.

 

Oh, and as you're outdpsing them in those long fights, you're also taking pressure off your healer by adding AOE heals.

Edited March 5, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Venator-Falco]

Im not sure i agree with this. Ive run ops with both combat and Watchman and im not sure theres any situation or boss where id say combat is more useful. Did you have any special in mind?

 

Let us look at SOA in EV.

Front Loaded DPS Takes out Mindtraps much faster than loading DOTs.

When his shields get taken out by the dropping pyramids Front Loaded DPS is better than dots.

When Dropping down the levels taking out the power pyramid things Front loaded Damage is better than Loading up DOTs

While we are talking about EV… Let us look at the Puzzle where you have waves of small mobs… Front loaded is better than DOTs.

But let us not just look at Bosses let us also look at all the trash you work your way through in a lot of hard modes the trash is no different to a normal mode, it is just the bosses that have been bumped up. So when clearing your way through to things a Front loaded DPS that can take out mobs in 2 hits has value. You get all the trash cleared and get everyone focused on the big mobs.

Pure DPS is not the only question to be answered here.

[Aaramis]

^^ Good example. Soa would be my choice as well for the mind traps, as is the Sith Entity in FE where there's a really short enrage timer.

Heck, even the adds in EV - Pylon I prefer Combat as it burns them down quickly. But then, on Gharj, I'd much prefer Watchman as it's a longer fight. Could even make a case for Focus to quickly burn down the adds while maintaining dps on the boss (gather adds at Gharj and AoE).

 

Overall, as I've argued before, I'd probably give the nod to Watchman for overall dps, but there are other cases where the other specs can shine.

[gunte]

Let us look at SOA in EV.

Front Loaded DPS Takes out Mindtraps much faster than loading DOTs.

When his shields get taken out by the dropping pyramids Front Loaded DPS is better than dots.

When Dropping down the levels taking out the power pyramid things Front loaded Damage is better than Loading up DOTs

While we are talking about EV… Let us look at the Puzzle where you have waves of small mobs… Front loaded is better than DOTs.

But let us not just look at Bosses let us also look at all the trash you work your way through in a lot of hard modes the trash is no different to a normal mode, it is just the bosses that have been bumped up. So when clearing your way through to things a Front loaded DPS that can take out mobs in 2 hits has value. You get all the trash cleared and get everyone focused on the big mobs.

Pure DPS is not the only question to be answered here.

 

As far as the mind traps go yes you are correct, Soa though is enough time for Watchman to shine as you should have been able to keep the merciless buff up, save zen for Soa and blast away. You seem to think Watchman needs endless times to build up dots, thats not true, takes 3 melee attacks one of which is cauterize and you have "built" up all the dots.

 

Trash packs - yes combat is better but if you need to maximize DPS on trash packs your most likely doing at least something wrong

 

The pylons - those mobs are normal, they go down in 2 seconds regardless of what spec

 

And lets not bring up utility into the question, they are not in the same galaxy in that regard

[Asherdad]

Great thread guys,

Thanks for all the info.